Now That We've Had a Few Years to Chew On It

PBRME

All-American
Feb 12, 2004
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I think a lot of people felt this way, me included. We thought we had to have a running offense and that the Air Raid didn't fit MSU. But there were a lot of smart people saying that it was a breath of fresh air that we had finally hired a truly competent coach. They were right, and it appeared that it might be a very effective offense for us, it bled the clock AND established the pass, which we'd never really had. Which of course then opens up the run more consistently.

And even with his death, we were set up for 2023 and beyond. Lot of young talent in the program. We just simply bungled it. Think about this......as bad as T-Bro Arnett and the RuNdAbAwLeRs were in 2023, we were still 5-7. They did everything possible to sabotage the program and our record was still as good as Lenny's best. That tells you right there that our decision-making beyond the Leach hire tanked the program, not Leach'd death.
It wasn’t the passing offense I didn’t like. I was still bitter about Mullen. Bitter about the Moorhead hire. Bitter about Moorhead wasting the talent on the 2018 team. Bitter about OM hiring Kiffen. Bitter we missed our top targets. Bitter because it felt like we went after a name at the end of his coaching career just to steal some thunder from OM.
 

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
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Solid hire. But he got the benefit of some absolutely cakewalk schedules if you are looking to win 7-10 games.
 

ckDOG

All-American
Dec 11, 2007
10,504
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This was fake news 15 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago and continues to be now. For the love of all things holy, the Air Raid is not a triple option. It is very difficult to go from a run-based scheme to a pass-based scheme, but not the other way around.

That said, if you go from pass-based to run-based, you will likely lose more games.....simply because it's smart to invest in the pass. Unless you bring in an elite tailback/running QB or something.

And more to the point.....Texas Tech and Washington State didn't drop off immediately after he left....so where does this come from?
Wazzou and TTech kept key elements of the air raid in their system bc of the transition difficulties to more balanced systems or run heavy/play action systems.

But that's just my opinion. Let's see what AIslop opinion will tell us:

A program that has spent several years recruiting specifically for a traditional Air Raid offense can have a harder time transitioning to another offensive system than a program running a more balanced offense. The difficulty depends heavily on what offense replaces it.


Mississippi State’s transition away from Mike Leach’s Air Raid in 2023 is a particularly good example.


Why the Air Raid can be difficult to transition away from


The Air Raid doesn’t just change play-calling. Over several recruiting cycles, it changes the composition of your roster, the skills players develop, and even how your offensive linemen are trained.


PositionTraditional Air Raid emphasisPotential transition problem
QuarterbackQuick decisions, accuracy, processing coverageMay lack experience with under-center snaps, play-action and more complex run-game responsibilities
Offensive linePass protection, wide splits, limited run conceptsMust learn additional run-blocking schemes and different physical techniques
Running backPass protection, receiving, running from shotgunMay need to develop more traditional rushing skills
Wide receiverHigh-volume passing, spacing, option routesGenerally transferable, but blocking and new route responsibilities can be challenging
Tight endOften rarely used as a traditional positionMay require recruiting an entirely new position group

The biggest challenges are usually offensive line development, quarterback fit and tight end personnel.


Not all transitions are equally difficult


Air Raid → Spread passing offense


Easier


A system retaining shotgun formations, multiple receivers, quick passing and spread concepts can use much of the existing roster.


Air Raid → Balanced spread


Moderate


A balanced attack using zone runs, RPOs, play-action and some tight ends requires new skills but preserves substantial roster compatibility.


Air Raid → Pro-style, run-heavy offense


Harder


A system relying on tight ends, heavier formations, under-center snaps and a physical running game can require significant personnel changes.


Mississippi State is a case study


When Zach Arnett hired Kevin Barbay in 2023, Mississippi State moved from Leach’s unusually pass-heavy offense toward a system emphasizing rushing and play-action.


Barbay acknowledged the learning curve during spring practice. The changes included narrowing offensive line splits, introducing tight ends and teaching quarterbacks to operate under center. Mississippi State +1


The problem wasn’t necessarily that Mississippi State had bad players. It was that the returning players had spent years developing skills for a fundamentally different approach.


Will Rogers, for instance, was an extremely experienced Air Raid quarterback, but much of that experience didn’t directly prepare him for Barbay’s system.


That transition was made more difficult by the fact that SEC opponents offered little room for growing pains.


How long should a transition take?


These are reasonable planning estimates, not fixed rules.


TimeWhat a program can realistically accomplish
First offseasonInstall the new offense and identify personnel gaps
Year 1Operate a hybrid offense while teaching new techniques
Year 2Add portal players and recruits better suited to the system
Year 3Establish a roster substantially aligned with the new philosophy

The transfer portal can compress this timeline, particularly at quarterback and tight end. Offensive line development is generally harder to accelerate.


What this means for Mississippi State going forward


There’s an important distinction between Mike Leach’s traditional Air Raid and Jeff Lebby’s version of the spread offense.


Lebby’s offense incorporates Air Raid passing concepts but places considerably more emphasis on tempo, the running game, RPOs and explosive downfield passing.


That creates two strategic considerations:


1. The roster is not as specialized as a traditional Leach roster. Players recruited for Lebby’s offense should generally be capable of transitioning to a variety of modern spread offenses without a complete rebuild.


2. Transitioning to a traditional, run-heavy offense would still be costly. The next coach might need different offensive linemen, additional tight ends and a quarterback with a different skill set.


My assessment


For a program like Mississippi State, which faces structural recruiting disadvantages against the SEC’s wealthiest programs, offensive continuity has real strategic value.


A successful distinctive offense can allow State to recruit players who are undervalued by programs running different systems. But that advantage comes with a cost: the more specialized your roster becomes, the fewer coaching candidates can take over without considerable disruption.


That doesn’t mean Mississippi State should be permanently committed to the Air Raid.


It means that when selecting a new coach, the cost of transitioning the existing roster should be an important part of the hiring decision, alongside the coach’s overall quality.


In fact, I’d argue that Mississippi State’s 2023 experience illustrates a broader problem: abruptly abandoning a specialized offense can erase years of accumulated player development before the replacement system has the personnel to succeed.
 

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
15,275
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Wazzou and TTech kept key elements of the air raid in their system bc of the transition difficulties to more balanced systems or run heavy/play action systems.

But that's just my opinion. Let's see what AIslop opinion will tell us:
Yes, when you recruit 5 OTs and don’t worry about any sort of run blocking scheme, it’s going to be a challenge to get out of.
 
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OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
14,531
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Wazzou and TTech kept key elements of the air raid in their system bc of the transition difficulties to more balanced systems or run heavy/play action systems.

But that's just my opinion. Let's see what AIslop opinion will tell us:
That's a lot of variables. When you do anything abruptly, that's kinda dumb.

Moorhead changing Mullen's offense abruptly was dumb too. That's not an Air Raid thing.
 

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
15,275
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That's a lot of variables. When you do anything abruptly, that's kinda dumb.

Moorhead changing Mullen's offense abruptly was dumb too. That's not an Air Raid thing.
Moorheads issuess wasn’t Scheme. It was trying to jam a square peg into a round hole at QB. He was just stubborn.
 

quickstrike2

Sophomore
Aug 24, 2012
190
180
43
I am indifferent on it. It was ultimately good because we won more than we lost and at State, that is doing something. Leach's brand was hard to watch even when good. I still feel to a weak armed QB held him back. There was many games were we went to halftime with 80 yards of total offense. However, we won games.

We always knew that once Leach left or in this case unfortunately passed, we were going to be in a total rebuild. And it has went about as bad as it could.
 

Drebin

Heisman
Aug 22, 2012
22,838
28,376
113
Leach was fun when he was here. There was a gravitas and a national credibility that he had. We were competent on the field. We got a lot of good publicity.

The offense was ugly. No shot plays, just 50 six yard passes every game. That could've have been a Will thing as much or more than a Leach thing. But Rogers was frustrating to watch.

We were always going to suffer here when Leach left because our recruiting cratered so severely under his tenure. Was that a Leach thing or a staff thing? Well, we know where the buck ultimately stops.

But I liked Leach and it was fun in the moment. And it was really tragic how it ended.
 
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OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
14,531
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Leach's brand was hard to watch even when good. I still feel to a weak armed QB held him back.
It's a shame we never got to see Leach with Sawyer Robertson or equivalent. And yes, Rogers held back the top end of it, but he also did some good things.

I'll say this, we all know the Rogers-type players. They know the game, run the offense well, very coachable, and good 'enough' talent wise. It's hard to bench those guys, even though they technically can't go out and win the huge games and make crazy athletic plays that wow everybody.
 

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
15,275
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Leach was fun when he was here. There was a gravitas and a national credibility that he had. We were competent on the field. We got a lot of good publicity.

The offense was ugly. No shot plays, just 50 six yard passes every game. That could've have been a Will thing as much or more than a Leach thing. But Rogers was frustrating to watch.

We were always going to suffer here when Leach left because our recruiting cratered so severely under his tenure. Was that a Leach thing or a staff thing? Well, we know where the buck ultimately stops.

But I liked Leach and it was fun in the moment. And it was really tragic how it ended.
Yeah, just no way to take a shot with everyone dropping 8. The fact Woody Marks has the most receptions in school history is still just hilarious.
 

Drebin

Heisman
Aug 22, 2012
22,838
28,376
113
Yeah, just no way to take a shot with everyone dropping 8. The fact Woody Marks has the most receptions in school history is still just hilarious.
Yeah, and I think that was a Will thing. He didn't have the arm strength to throw in tight windows and whether it was him or Leach instructing him, he didn't like taking downfield risks. Almost all of his throws were safe throws.

One thing I would've loved to have seen is Sawyer Robertson get a year with Leach. He had the arm strength to beat those zone coverages. May have thrown a few more pics but the offense would've been a little more explosive, too.
 

quickstrike2

Sophomore
Aug 24, 2012
190
180
43
It's a shame we never got to see Leach with Sawyer Robertson or equivalent. And yes, Rogers held back the top end of it, but he also did some good things.

I'll say this, we all know the Rogers-type players. They know the game, run the offense well, very coachable, and good 'enough' talent wise. It's hard to bench those guys, even though they technically can't go out and win the huge games and make crazy athletic plays that wow everybody.
Yep, you are right.

I also think that both Leach and Rogers benefitted from a very opportunistic Defense and Return game. We had Forbes tie the SEC record for pick sixes during that time, and Griffin and Thomas put us in excellent shape with returns. I don't know how long those trends were going to continue. It masked some things on offense.
 
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lazlow

Senior
Jul 9, 2009
1,402
703
113
Ultimately the decision to get away from the AR was Zac Selmons. And he has failed all of us. Once he fires his buddy, he will make the same mistake and fail us all again.
 

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
14,531
13,357
113
Ultimately the decision to get away from the AR was Zac Selmons.
Don't know about that. Once Leach died and Arnett was announced, the RuNdAbAwLeRs got to him pretty quickly, and convinced him that it was his defense that carried Leach and that he needed a new offense. He fired all the AR guys right after the bowl game and hired all the T-bros because hayul yayuh mayun 17ing wing T physkul footbaww.

Selmon wasn't hired until about a month later, maybe 3 weeks or so. I don't think he did or didn't want the AR, honestly I don't think he knew what he wanted, which is why he hired his buddy Heavy.

And he has failed all of us. Once he fires his buddy, he will make the same mistake and fail us all again.
100% agree.
 

KaizenMuse

Redshirt
Aug 19, 2026
35
32
18
Was the Pirate a good hire for the time(s)?

I was skeptical at the time
Now it looks like Cohen was made the blind squirrel find
It was a home run at the time.
In hindsight. It was also a home run.

Mike Leach was a home run hire at every stop. Wish he had the time to really ascend in Starkvegas. He's enjoying his cheesburgers and candy in the next phase now though.

Cohen is a loser though
 

BigDogFan

Freshman
Oct 12, 2016
108
62
28
Loved the hire and loved Leach. He was fun and entertaining with the ability to make reporters look stupid and they didn't even know he was doing it. Folks say his offense didn't throw the deep ball but if you look back at his time at Tech they did. I think it was he knew what Will could do well and did it. Still think we need to put up a maroon and white jolly roger flag on a pole on the other side of the M-Club building.
 

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
15,275
7,648
113
Loved the hire and loved Leach. He was fun and entertaining with the ability to make reporters look stupid and they didn't even know he was doing it. Folks say his offense didn't throw the deep ball but if you look back at his time at Tech they did. I think it was he knew what Will could do well and did it. Still think we need to put up a maroon and white jolly roger flag on a pole on the other side of the M-Club building.
By the time he left Tech everyone was running drop 8. Just not a lot of deep ball opportunity against 2 and 3 safeties. Will didn’t have the strongest arm but he could hit a shot play if had been there. See South Carolina 2023
 

Indndawg

Senior
Nov 16, 2005
7,195
684
113
After Leach's death, it seemed logical to temporarily have Arnette move in. The huge mistake was hiring him as the permanent coach when there was plenty of time to find someone. Then, they found Lebby which had to be nothing but nepotism on the part of Selmon.

After Leach's death, it seemed logical to temporarily have Arnette move in. The huge mistake was hiring him as the permanent coach when there was plenty of time to find someone. Then, they found Lebby which had to be nothing but nepotism on the part of Selmon.
Preach John Stamos GIF by Fuller House
 

Indndawg

Senior
Nov 16, 2005
7,195
684
113
He was a good man and a good coach. While he may not have been the greatest or the preferred choice of many, he did win games here. If you think that’s easy, you’d be mistaken. Moreover, the publicity he brought with him due to his personality was much more entertaining than watching Heavy Lebby stare into the camera, sweating and looking foolish.
You mean Coach Coachspeak or Coach Neckhair
 

Indndawg

Senior
Nov 16, 2005
7,195
684
113
I think a lot of people felt this way, me included. We thought we had to have a running offense and that the Air Raid didn't fit MSU. But there were a lot of smart people saying that it was a breath of fresh air that we had finally hired a truly competent coach. They were right, and it appeared that it might be a very effective offense for us, it bled the clock AND established the pass, which we'd never really had. Which of course then opens up the run more consistently.

And even with his death, we were set up for 2023 and beyond. Lot of young talent in the program. We just simply bungled it. Think about this......as bad as T-Bro Arnett and the RuNdAbAwLeRs were in 2023, we were still 5-7. They did everything possible to sabotage the program and our record was still as good as Lenny's best. That tells you right there that our decision-making beyond the Leach hire tanked the program, not Leach'd death.
OMG, you're bring facts. What an indictment of Coach Coach Speak
 

MSUDC11-2.0

Heisman
Sep 29, 2022
11,157
18,178
113
Yes I would say good hire, and would also say it went about like I expected. Figured it would take a year or two to get going and the transition away from that style might be tough, but knew he’d have quality teams for the most part.

We didn’t really get to see what he would’ve been like with the NIL era in full swing, but I think he was better at using the portal than he gets credit for.

Good coaches tend to figure it out and think he would’ve eventually figured it out as long as he still had the desire to coach and all his mental faculties.
 
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