Why did Pope move away from the offense he ran his first year?

UKfan2151 · 2026-11-11T23:43:17-0600

That was actually effective! The defense stunk, but at least we had excellent ball movement and passing. The way we whipped the ball around, we were always finding guys who were open and scoring on backdoor cuts. It was beautiful team basketball.

Now, we just dribble around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down and take a contested 3. And if we manage to get dribble penetration, it is all just one on one chit like Cal ran. There is no interior passing or kickouts to open shooters. Just how in the hell did we go from what Pope ran his first year to this stagnant, ineffective crap we're using today? It makes no sense.

*Fox2Monk* · 2026-11-11T23:51:31-0600

UKfan2151 said:
That was actually effective! The defense stunk, but at least we had excellent ball movement and passing. The way we whipped the ball around, we were always finding guys who were open and scoring on backdoor cuts. It was beautiful team basketball.

Now, we just dribble around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down and take a contested 3. And if we manage to get dribble penetration, it is all just one on one chit like Cal ran. There is no interior passing or kickouts to open shooters. Just how in the hell did we go from what Pope ran his first year to this stagnant, ineffective crap we're using today? It makes no sense.

No idea, it’s like not even the same guy coaching offense.

Tprinceuk · 2026-11-12T00:04:05-0600

UKfan2151 said:
That was actually effective! The defense stunk, but at least we had excellent ball movement and passing. The way we whipped the ball around, we were always finding guys who were open and scoring on backdoor cuts. It was beautiful team basketball.

Now, we just dribble around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down and take a contested 3. And if we manage to get dribble penetration, it is all just one on one chit like Cal ran. There is no interior passing or kickouts to open shooters. Just how in the hell did we go from what Pope ran his first year to this stagnant, ineffective crap we're using today? It makes no sense.

I've been wondering that too, I would much rather be in a track meet game where our defense is *** but our offense is elite because at least we have a chance to win.

HolySmokes · 2026-11-12T00:50:02-0600

It simple. You had Lamont Butler. Brea. Carr. Williams. Oweh. It wasnt Popes offense. He got some good players here. He hasnt had close to the same talent since.

NociHTTP · 2026-11-12T01:21:03-0600

HolySmokes said:
It simple. You had Lamont Butler. Brea. Carr. Williams. Oweh. It wasnt Popes offense. He got some good players here. He hasnt had close to the same talent since.

Not quite true. He had Cody teaching the offense, Pope even talked about him at the Introduction Rally or that year's midnight madness, iirc. It wasn't long in that season until the team went completely away from the offense they started out with.

Catzman · 2026-11-12T01:22:11-0600

He ran that same offense with much success at BYU, and even beat Kansas with it. Kansas had the superior players, but that passing, screening, cutting offense was very effective even with subpar players. It's unexplainable on why he would go away from it. That kind of player and ball movement is almost unstoppable, especially IF you can recruit skilled and athletic players.

K_TIME · 2026-11-12T02:41:09-0600

1. Moreno isn’t near the playmaker for others Amari Williams was. Moreno isn’t near the ball handler or seeing the play unfold
2. This is a mystery…/but we don’t cut consistently throughout a game we did hew 1…I have zero idea why that is
3. Carr was no athlete but he has some post skills, decent shooter….but Ndyai, McBride, Jelavic, are a massive downgrade from him. Can’t shoot a lick, low IQ, can’t dribble, no touch, …I liked the hustle and grit of Diaboute../but he had archaic skills
4. Brea and Butler were playmakers/shotmakers. …I think Milo will make shots but we have nothing close to Butler

But regardless of offense… we have zilch a clue of defense. Pope just can’t get effort and he has shown to have little clue to defense. Thet is why is have no hope for him. We’ll improve offensive play…but we will always her destroyed on defensive end

Haggin_Hall_1983 · 2026-11-12T04:38:05-0600

NociHTTP said:
Not quite true. He had Cody teaching the offense, Pope even talked about him at the Introduction Rally or that year's midnight madness, iirc. It wasn't long in that season until the team went completely away from the offense they started out with.

That team never left that offense. When Butler got hurt, and then also our backup PG, we had zero ball handlers. Amari Williams often dribbled the ball into the post and/or passed the ball. Carr was also an effective passer- until he also hurt his back, from which he also never recovered. The assistant coach some have referenced was introduced by Mark as his "offensive mastermind", and it was kind of a Princeton style+5 out blend that emphasized picks/rolls and setting up the 3 point shot. Pretty sure that coach left after last season.

MichaelGray · 2026-11-12T04:46:14-0600

He probably realizes that the players on this team don't wanna do all of that cutting & screening, they wanna play in a offense that is more one on one to showcase skills.

I worried about this after the 1st year, at first I thought, "wait until he gets 5* talent to run this system". After thinking about it, I thought "5* players don't wanna play in a structured, screen & screen for the screener cutting offense, no scripted set plays because that's not an NBA offense".

It sounds about right, look at the last 2 years, lots of 1 on 1 stuff, nothing like year 1. It may not be as simple as what I'm saying but it can't be too far off either.

bigblueinsanity (the real) · 2026-11-12T04:46:56-0600

My theory is he heard loud and clear from top targets they didn't like the offense because it doesn't showcase any nba skills, especially for pgs.

Players have every right to feel that way because it was true except for the one big that got to play up top. Except we couldn't land that guy anyway.

So beginning last year he tried something else and it made him promise first Lowe now these two that he wont run it. That is my theory.

Unfortunately for us it was literally the sole promising quality he had as a coach. It was always a mid major offense but a good one. Now we just have a mid major coach, mid major players, without the one effective quality he at one time possessed.

HolySmokes · 2026-11-12T05:36:59-0600

NociHTTP said:
Not quite true. He had Cody teaching the offense, Pope even talked about him at the Introduction Rally or that year's midnight madness, iirc. It wasn't long in that season until the team went completely away from the offense they started out with.

I cant argue against that. I was just giving the eye test opinion.

*Fox2Monk* · 2026-11-12T06:05:54-0600

HolySmokes said:
It simple. You had Lamont Butler. Brea. Carr. Williams. Oweh. It wasnt Popes offense. He got some good players here. He hasnt had close to the same talent since.

We haven’t ran the same stuff since though. It’s like Brea/Butler/J Rob were already well coached and either listened to what Pope wanted to do an executed, or they coached themselves. We had enough talent since to be a solid team, but we haven’t looked close to the same. Either Pope totally changed his ways or the guys he has gotten don’t respect him enough to even run anything he asks them to do. Probably why he stands with his arms folded all game and plays 15 guys.

*Fox2Monk* · 2026-11-12T06:06:58-0600

Catzman said:
He ran that same offense with much success at BYU, and even beat Kansas with it. Kansas had the superior players, but that passing, screening, cutting offense was very effective even with subpar players. It's unexplainable on why he would go away from it. That kind of player and ball movement is almost unstoppable, especially IF you can recruit skilled and athletic players.

Kinda like what UConn does. They run good stuff with great players.

*Fox2Monk* · 2026-11-12T06:08:14-0600

K_TIME said:
1. Moreno isn’t near the playmaker for others Amari Williams was. Moreno isn’t near the ball handler or seeing the play unfold
2. This is a mystery…/but we don’t cut consistently throughout a game we did hew 1…I have zero idea why that is
3. Carr was no athlete but he has some post skills, decent shooter….but Ndyai, McBride, Jelavic, are a massive downgrade from him. Can’t shoot a lick, low IQ, can’t dribble, no touch, …I liked the hustle and grit of Diaboute../but he had archaic skills
4. Brea and Butler were playmakers/shotmakers. …I think Milo will make shots but we have nothing close to Butler

But regardless of offense… we have zilch a clue of defense. Pope just can’t get effort and he has shown to have little clue to defense. Thet is why is have no hope for him. We’ll improve offensive play…but we will always her destroyed on defensive end

He recruited these guys though, we all know he can’t get who he really wants. It’s like he’s not even targeting guys to run what he wants to run. This team is supposed to be built the way he wants to play, yet they look worse than any team he’s had.

Kyfan27 · 2026-11-12T06:17:37-0600

I think some of it was due to the fact he had so many fifth year guys on that first team. The basketball IQ on that team vs these last two is just night and day and I think the players were simply alot better that year than we gave them credit for. Like someone on here said also I think that style offense doesn't attract top talent and I think Pope thinks he has to recruit like Cal. I don't think he actually has (soon to be had) to do that. Imagine if Pope took Mullins over Jasper. Imagine if instead of taking Lowe when he whiffed on Donovan Dent he simply rolled with Acaden Lewis as PG1. A returning core of Lewis, Mullins, and Malachi this year would actually get me hyped and I don't think last year would have been as miserable so he's likely not on the hot seat just yet. I think he thought he could get any type of player and his offense was plug and play and it's simply not. Unless you have an Amari Williams type but it just doesn't work.

NociHTTP · 2026-11-12T06:25:47-0600

Haggin_Hall_1983 said:
That team never left that offense. When Butler got hurt, and then also our backup PG, we had zero ball handlers. Amari Williams often dribbled the ball into the post and/or passed the ball. Carr was also an effective passer- until he also hurt his back, from which he also never recovered. The assistant coach some have referenced was introduced by Mark as his "offensive mastermind", and it was kind of a Princeton style+5 out blend that emphasized picks/rolls and setting up the 3 point shot. Pretty sure that coach left after last season.

It wasn't just the PG position. They stopped moving the ball, setting good picks, cutting. There is more to ball movement than someone dribbling deep in the paint.

VC99 · 2026-11-12T06:41:16-0600

UKfan2151 said:
That was actually effective! The defense stunk, but at least we had excellent ball movement and passing. The way we whipped the ball around, we were always finding guys who were open and scoring on backdoor cuts. It was beautiful team basketball.

Now, we just dribble around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down and take a contested 3. And if we manage to get dribble penetration, it is all just one on one chit like Cal ran. There is no interior passing or kickouts to open shooters. Just how in the hell did we go from what Pope ran his first year to this stagnant, ineffective crap we're using today? It makes no sense.

Because he isn't a good coach. He is a niche coach and had a niche thing going at BYU that fit him. It was never going to work at Kentucky. Complete mismatch.

The Space Happy Cat · 2026-11-12T06:52:21-0600

Haggin_Hall_1983 said:
That team never left that offense. When Butler got hurt, and then also our backup PG, we had zero ball handlers. Amari Williams often dribbled the ball into the post and/or passed the ball. Carr was also an effective passer- until he also hurt his back, from which he also never recovered. The assistant coach some have referenced was introduced by Mark as his "offensive mastermind", and it was kind of a Princeton style+5 out blend that emphasized picks/rolls and setting up the 3 point shot. Pretty sure that coach left after last season.

It's Fueger who is still on the staff. He was Pope's "offensive guru" at BYU as well where they ran action like year 1 here. No clue if Pope has stopped implementing his offense or they just inexplicably changed their style but what we run now is totally aimless.

Anon726530 · 2026-11-12T07:05:57-0600

He literally quit at last year’s UL game something happened which permanently changed the culture / mood of the team. He leaned on team captain Oweh and Oweh said no, I’m going to keep doing whatever I want to do and the entire team no longer respected / feared him. Even year one’s super coachable / cooperative group, he wanted them all in wildcat lodge and they ignored him. I hoped a new group would renew him and we’d see more year 1 wins but Pope has quit. He thinks he is being honorable by trying to finish his contract but he is prolonging everyone’s torture, mostly his own.

He is personally suffering as you would if you were on your way to becoming a doctor and then you gave it up for this one job, and then failed at your dream job. We saw many glimpses of it last year, he is trying to accept how this is going to end

HolySmokes · 2026-11-12T07:11:32-0600

*Fox2Monk* said:
We haven’t ran the same stuff since though. It’s like Brea/Butler/J Rob were already well coached and either listened to what Pope wanted to do an executed, or they coached themselves. We had enough talent since to be a solid team, but we haven’t looked close to the same. Either Pope totally changed his ways or the guys he has gotten don’t respect him enough to even run anything he asks them to do. Probably why he stands with his arms folded all game and plays 15 guys.

Those guys were mature. The number of combin3d games played between them was crazy. Severely underrated. Butler led a team to the national championship befire coming to Kentucky. Brea was a killler. Literally shot 50% from three most of the season. Carr did his thing at wake forest. Amari had won defensive player of the year in his conference just about every year he played. Oweh was a solid athlete that could drive the ball and dunk on somebody any given moment. Maybe the most underappreciated Cat of my life. And then you had Almonor who was a baller.

I think people just dont realise how good that team was when healthy. I said all that and completely forgot about Robinson.

Those guys didnt need a coach at all to do good. Everyone knows that team was good when healthy but im not sure they get how good. Butler getting injured. Carrs back. Jacks wrist.

Oh yea dont forget ol scammer Kerr and his foot. He wasn't a great player but he could give solid minutes and run an offense as far as ball handling. He wasn't scared. Nobody on that team was scared. Nobody was a me first person.

TheDude73 · 2026-11-12T07:15:32-0600

*Fox2Monk* said:
No idea, it’s like not even the same guy coaching offense.

It is bizarre. It started to take hold last year and I noticed. This year the top of the key center, sweet backdoor cuts and just the entire BYU Pope offense we saw in 2024-2025 is literally gone. Could you imagine the # of shots Mom would have gotten Tuesday night with that offense? Now it literally looks like a Calipari "offensive set", which is dribble around and create something.

TheDude73 · 2026-11-12T07:21:41-0600

K_TIME said:
1. Moreno isn’t near the playmaker for others Amari Williams was. Moreno isn’t near the ball handler or seeing the play unfold
2. This is a mystery…/but we don’t cut consistently throughout a game we did hew 1…I have zero idea why that is
3. Carr was no athlete but he has some post skills, decent shooter….but Ndyai, McBride, Jelavic, are a massive downgrade from him. Can’t shoot a lick, low IQ, can’t dribble, no touch, …I liked the hustle and grit of Diaboute../but he had archaic skills
4. Brea and Butler were playmakers/shotmakers. …I think Milo will make shots but we have nothing close to Butler

But regardless of offense… we have zilch a clue of defense. Pope just can’t get effort and he has shown to have little clue to defense. Thet is why is have no hope for him. We’ll improve offensive play…but we will always her destroyed on defensive end

Yeah that defense Tuesday night was dismal. I mean, the announcers had it dead on - we were chasing the whole night. We'd start to switch but not switch and then that would leave someone open nearly every time down the floor because two doofuses would keep going with the ball and not actually "switch".

We all saw this coming after that JMU game. We were chasing there as well, against an 0-1 James Madison. They had guys open all night long.

This Friday night we'll look like world beaters and everyone will be "oh look, they figured it out", only to turn around against real competition and be chasing the ball all over again.

Pope's plan appears to be try to out shoot the opponent and hope they miss. Except it's kinda hard to out shoot them when your guards are dribble-drive first mentality and never ever look to kick out to an open shooter. Further, Pope ran literally ZERO plays to get Mom open Tuesday night. I was beside myself watching him just stand in the corner moving back and forth around the perimeter about 15-20 feet. No set plays were run to screen for him to get open. Just mind boggling.

TheDude73 · 2026-11-12T07:24:15-0600

bigblueinsanity (the real) said:
My theory is he heard loud and clear from top targets they didn't like the offense because it doesn't showcase any nba skills, especially for pgs.

Players have every right to feel that way because it was true except for the one big that got to play up top. Except we couldn't land that guy anyway.

So beginning last year he tried something else and it made him promise first Lowe now these two that he wont run it. That is my theory.

Unfortunately for us it was literally the sole promising quality he had as a coach. It was always a mid major offense but a good one. Now we just have a mid major coach, mid major players, without the one effective quality he at one time possessed.

Screw that crap. Get them on board, then run the offense you want to run that has brought you success. The problem is, they've not practiced that kind of offense, so a complete overhaul even this early in the season would likely spell disaster and result in 20+ turnovers per game.

Maybe throw a few old offense plays in each half, kind of grow with it? I've seen none of it, not one. It's all the same - dribble dribble dribble, stand and watch, dribble and stand and watch. It is literally the exact same "offense" Cal uses.

TTTblue24 · 2026-11-12T07:26:33-0600

Kansas was running something similar vs us if you go back and watch, a lot of cutting and movement off the ball along with screens away from the ball. Their recruiting class is way better than ours and has a few 5* guys and they’re running it so I can’t go along with big name guys don’t want to run this type of offense.

Resignmarkpope · 2026-11-12T07:29:33-0600

NociHTTP said:
Not quite true. He had Cody teaching the offense, Pope even talked about him at the Introduction Rally or that year's midnight madness, iirc. It wasn't long in that season until the team went completely away from the offense they started out with.

Regardless, mark pope and Cody boy are horrible coaches! Isn’t Cody the boom guy after signing a 3 star? More like pop

OliverSimmonsTwinBrother · 2026-11-12T08:12:20-0600

My theory is he had a bunch of super seniors that could overcome his lack of coaching ability.

bleedsblue5 · 2026-11-12T08:35:53-0600

I have a theory on this, this team is not listening - at least not yet.
Pope doesn't exactly come off as intimidating so they just do what they want to do, possibly until they lose and he gets their attention.

Not an excuse for Pope he needs to get their attention BEFORE losing.

It's the defense that is getting me, like they stand straight up. This has happened from day 1, I would almost make a video how Pope was taught to defend with Pitino and how it looked vs how his guys are doing it. - TEACH THEM HOW YOU WERE TAUGHT.

wkycatfan7 · 2026-11-12T08:43:46-0600

My guess he doesn't have a point center anymore, like Amari Williams.

LineSkiCat14 · 2026-11-12T08:46:05-0600

Maybe we go get Fueger then lol.

Sure sounds like a lot of, if not all of our success was due to him and Pope was just the useless CEO.

NociHTTP · 2026-11-12T09:15:55-0600

TheDude73 said:
It is bizarre. It started to take hold last year and I noticed. This year the top of the key center, sweet backdoor cuts and just the entire BYU Pope offense we saw in 2024-2025 is literally gone. Could you imagine the # of shots Mom would have gotten Tuesday night with that offense? Now it literally looks like a Calipari "offensive set", which is dribble around and create something.

I wonder if he's overthinking.

AJBlue · 2026-11-12T09:26:36-0600

UKfan2151 said:
That was actually effective! The defense stunk, but at least we had excellent ball movement and passing. The way we whipped the ball around, we were always finding guys who were open and scoring on backdoor cuts. It was beautiful team basketball.

Now, we just dribble around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down and take a contested 3. And if we manage to get dribble penetration, it is all just one on one chit like Cal ran. There is no interior passing or kickouts to open shooters. Just how in the hell did we go from what Pope ran his first year to this stagnant, ineffective crap we're using today? It makes no sense.

He's not completely. They try to run it a lot and always start out trying to but 1) the defenses have caught up to its patterns (dribble to wing, circle cut, back door look, repeat etc) so they're extending the defense and defending much easier now. And 2) He just doesnt demand the all in energy, movement and 5 man commitment to it to make it work. We'll have 2 or 3 guys engaged in the offense and even those 2 or 3 are walking through it and not exploding off cuts like say KANSAS did the other day.

So the problem is not with the strategy of the offense and I believe it can still work like it did the first half of the first year, but the real probelm is he just doesnt demand the level of effort and movement it takes to work.. And when teams shut it down we never have guys that are capable of breakind down a defense on their own so what you end up with is what we see over and over . . . guys just dribbling the air out of the ball because theyve got nowhere to go!!

UKBB4Ever · 2026-11-12T12:59:49-0600

UKfan2151 said:
That was actually effective! The defense stunk, but at least we had excellent ball movement and passing. The way we whipped the ball around, we were always finding guys who were open and scoring on backdoor cuts. It was beautiful team basketball.

Now, we just dribble around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down and take a contested 3. And if we manage to get dribble penetration, it is all just one on one chit like Cal ran. There is no interior passing or kickouts to open shooters. Just how in the hell did we go from what Pope ran his first year to this stagnant, ineffective crap we're using today? It makes no sense.

All he did was run zoom. He kinda took everyone by surprise with that. Then once they realized that's all he had they starting preparing for it. Pope had no plan B.

HogCoyote · 2026-11-12T13:26:14-0600

Haggin_Hall_1983 said:
Pretty sure that coach left after last season.

Nope Cody Feuger aka the BOOM guy is still on the staff, Pope just seems to be listening to him less and Mark Fox more, which is why Mark Fox needed to GOOOOOO this past off-season.

RunninRichie · 2026-11-12T13:28:08-0600

HogCoyote said:
Nope Cody Feuger aka the BOOM guy is still on the staff, Pope just seems to be listening to him less and Mark Fox more, which is why Mark Fox needed to GOOOOOO this past off-season.

Mark Fox “coaches” defense. Fueger tweets BOOM and sits on the bench, collecting paychecks.

HogCoyote · 2026-11-12T13:31:51-0600

RunninRichie said:
Mark Fox “coaches” defense. Fueger tweets BOOM and sits on the bench, collecting paychecks.

I think Fox has convinced Pope all that motion on offense has left them too tired to play defense which is why they've stopped doing it. Remember how glowingly Pope speaks of Fox.

Why did Pope move away from the offense he ran his first year?

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