⚽️⚽️⚽️…Delusional Youth Soccer Parent Thread

[ScheelSC]

This is team we are playing:
View attachment 965895
Do you have a source for the top 2014 #1 team in country that is different?

As far as I know a wide range of Texas clubs (and some Florida/Cali clubs?) take the strategy of playing up early into RL for their top u12 2014 teams. I believe they see it as a way to get the girls tactically and technically used to the new formations, bigger fields, and faster pace. Only a few clubs do it due to the difficulty and there are also arguments against it from a developmental perspective (less touches, etc), but I'm a fan of it for us. It looks like the current clubs doing this are FCD, Sting Austin, Solar, Challenge, and Sting Black, Albion, and Dallas Surf. Their "preECNL" teams are still very strong, but not the same level as the teams they send up to play RL.

So I'm confused at what you're saying. Are you saying the big Texas clubs have 2014 teams out there that are a higher level than these 2014 teams playing up in the RL Texas/Ntx/stx conferences? A quick glance at the top Texas 2014 teams tells me that over half are playing up in RL and all of the 'big club' top teams are doing it with the exception of HTX who can't b/c they are GA. The other Oklahoma 2014 teams don't often get a chance to play the very top Texas 2014 teams and when they do, they aren't winning. Not to say they can't b/c those games are competitive and Energy just tied Solars 2014 RL13NTX team So it's within reach, but again this level of nuance is hard to get to when you just look at scoreline+club name and don't acknowledge the difference in level and record.

Which brings me to:

Yes, you can absolutely compare competition levels and records. But it’s not controversial to acknowledge that there’s a clear difference between playing a club’s top team and its second or third team. If we say “we beat FCD 5–0,” yet our top team played their second or third side, then we’ve crossed into the realm of either misunderstanding or propaganda if we let people believe we faced their best. I’m all for celebrating wins and progress, but if we care about an accurate picture of where our team or club truly stands, we have to be transparent about the level of competition we’re facing.

@lawpoke87 You have a lot of experience in the Texas conference -- can you clarify misunderstandings I may have regarding the Texas team's strategy? I think it's important to understand their development strategy so that we can at least be honest in where we are as a community and what we can do to elevate to the next level.

FCD is #1 team in 2014's. But losing 8-0 isn't good either. I'm a big fan of your team but your only wins come against teams ranked 3461, 976, I think that means you might be I over your head.

 

[lawpoke87]

FCD is #1 team in 2014's. But losing 8-0 isn't good either. I'm a big fan of your team but your only wins come against teams ranked 3461, 976, I think that means you might be I over your head.

Didn’t realize they lost 8-0. That result worries me a bit. This is year is “practice” for WSA 14s. They will need a better result next season.

 

[Soccerguy7583]

Once you’re in ECNL it’s no longer once we get up on you a few goals we work on things as a team. Teams will try and score as much as they can against a weaker team with no mercy. Point differential is so important in seeding and sometimes making it into the champions league. Getting beat handily in Pre ECNL by some of the bigger clubs normally means it will get worse once they consolidate all their top players.

 

[ScheelSC]

Once you’re in ECNL it’s no longer once we get up on you a few goals we work on things as a team. Teams will try and score as much as they can against a weaker team with no mercy. Point differential is so important in seeding and sometimes making it into the champions league. Getting beat handily in Pre ECNL by some of the bigger clubs normally means it will get worse once they consolidate all their top players.

Teams still get the bench players more minutes to help even out close games when the minutes might be less than normal.

 

[Bordare51]

FCD is #1 team in 2014's. But losing 8-0 isn't good either. I'm a big fan of your team but your only wins come against teams ranked 3461, 976, I think that means you might be I over your head.

From a data standpoint, it’s not accurate to suggest that WSA 2014G can only win against lower-ranked opponents. The available performance data tells a different story.

If we compare Oklahoma’s 2014 girls teams on a like-for-like basis using national rankings and match outcomes against other 2014 teams over the past year, here’s what we see:

• WSA 2014G is the only Oklahoma 14G team to record a win over a national top-100 opponent in the last six months.
• The only 14G team to defeat a top-20 opponent in the last year, holding the highest-ranked win (#16 Sting) among all OK 2014G teams.
• Faced 3× more top-100 teams than TSC, 1.5× more than TSC + OEFC combined, and achieved 3× more wins against that level of competition.
• The average ranking of WSA’s top opponents is #34, compared with #52 for TSC and #46 for OEFC.

It’s fair to debate development strategies, like staying on-age vs. playing up, local vs. regional exposure, but the empirical record suggests that WSA 2014G is testing itself against stronger competition more often and finding success at that level.

 

[Bordare51]

The top girls on my daughter’s team (top 12-14) all outside train every week in addition to team trainings. They also follow a nutrition plan and a weight / speed training plan. This is one of the primary reasons the Texas teams out develop their Oklahoma counterparts. The other is competition for spots. No one is comfortable in their starting or even roster spot. This “fear” fosters work and drive from the player. Oklahoma just doesn’t have the depth to typically have that dynamic .

That’s probably far more than you would ever want to know.

I’ll always take the extra information as I enjoy learning.

At what age do you think outside training, speed and agility work, and nutrition plans become truly critical? And is outside training something the club explicitly requires, or are the best players already doing it on their own, which in turn helps them make it into the top clubs?

There’s also an interesting organizational tension here. On one hand, psychological safety is foundational to high-performing teams. On the other, the market dynamics of youth soccer, where players frequently move between teams and clubs, can create a sense of competitive insecurity.

If Tulsa wants to compete at a higher level, I’m convinced we’ll need to cultivate a stronger community culture. That’s somewhat at odds with the market-driven system we have now. But maybe there’s a middle ground: if we build a shared Tulsa soccer identity — something that transcends any single club — then players could feel a deep sense of belonging to the community, even while facing healthy competition for roster spots within their individual clubs.

 

[Bordare51]

1) Rankings are rather suspect at the academy ages. Most of those teams just don’t enough intersectional games to gather enough information to accurately rank. The larger clubs also don’t necessarily combine academy teams to form their best 18 until competitive commences. Furthermore, there are still a number of girls playing for non ECNL academies who won’t join say an FC Dallas/Sting/etc…until it’s time to play ECNL.

I think the combining is one of the most sobering parts of the U12-to-U13 transition. Have you seen enough cycles to predict the lift those big clubs get after they merge their top players?

If, for example, the bottom 25% of an FCD age group levels up to match the upper 25%, that’s a massive internal lift — far beyond what most independent teams get just from natural development. A team getting a 10% lift across its bottom quarter is a different story.

 

[Bordare51]

Having refereed this team several times this year, I can tell you the improvement is visible on the field during games. The first game I saw this team I honestly thought they bit off more than they could chew. I think this past weekend was the 4th time I've centered a game for this team and they were the more complete side, especially tactically. I'm glad to see the growth in the team. I also think I've seen them get way more aggressive and physical which is natural when the 1st game you played you got manhandled by a bigger, faster (and a year older) team.

I still worry about the GKing but I do like the coaches absolutely want to build possession out of the back...some days it will work and some it won't depending on the speed of the opponent. Even though the results may not show up in terms of W/L and standings position, stay the course because until they reach U16 or so, those results really don't matter in the grand scheme of things

Thank you for the perspective and feedback. I agree that the development is going well as a team, and also my daughter is more motivated now than I've ever seen her before. I keep a close eye on her love of the game. We'll add in small sided games during breaks to line up her trophy case more and feed her ego when needed.

 

[ScheelSC]

From a data standpoint, it’s not accurate to suggest that WSA 2014G can only win against lower-ranked opponents. The available performance data tells a different story.

If we compare Oklahoma’s 2014 girls teams on a like-for-like basis using national rankings and match outcomes against other 2014 teams over the past year, here’s what we see:

• WSA 2014G is the only Oklahoma 14G team to record a win over a national top-100 opponent in the last six months.
• The only 14G team to defeat a top-20 opponent in the last year, holding the highest-ranked win (#16 Sting) among all OK 2014G teams.
• Faced 3× more top-100 teams than TSC, 1.5× more than TSC + OEFC combined, and achieved 3× more wins against that level of competition.
• The average ranking of WSA’s top opponents is #34, compared with #52 for TSC and #46 for OEFC.

It’s fair to debate development strategies, like staying on-age vs. playing up, local vs. regional exposure, but the empirical record suggests that WSA 2014G is testing itself against stronger competition more often and finding success at that level.

I think WSA 14’s are better than Energy (even though currently ranked behind) But you can’t take the last year since teams have changed since your team went 11v11. Depth will always be a problem for Tulsa teams against bigger markets. At 9v9 WSA was incredible. The 13’s were no different we don’t have the depth the Dallas teams have. I look at what teams have done since August. For your team post Super Copa…..

 

[lawpoke87]

I’ll always take the extra information as I enjoy learning.

At what age do you think outside training, speed and agility work, and nutrition plans become truly critical? And is outside training something the club explicitly requires, or are the best players already doing it on their own, which in turn helps them make it into the top clubs?

There’s also an interesting organizational tension here. On one hand, psychological safety is foundational to high-performing teams. On the other, the market dynamics of youth soccer, where players frequently move between teams and clubs, can create a sense of competitive insecurity.

If Tulsa wants to compete at a higher level, I’m convinced we’ll need to cultivate a stronger community culture. That’s somewhat at odds with the market-driven system we have now. But maybe there’s a middle ground: if we build a shared Tulsa soccer identity — something that transcends any single club — then players could feel a deep sense of belonging to the community, even while facing healthy competition for roster spots within their individual clubs.

1) I believe outside training is important from a young age. It’s difficult to get the touches needed solely from team trainings. It’s also near impossible to work on skills in that setting. Becoming technically proficient is crucial in order to be an elite soccer player. FCD never mentions outside training. The girls (and parents) understand the competition for spots and playing time thus they PT.

2) Others might disagree but I believe nutrition combined with strength and speed training should occur post puberty. So in the 14-15 age range.

 

[lawpoke87]

I think the combining is one of the most sobering parts of the U12-to-U13 transition. Have you seen enough cycles to predict the lift those big clubs get after they merge their top players?

If, for example, the bottom 25% of an FCD age group levels up to match the upper 25%, that’s a massive internal lift — far beyond what most independent teams get just from natural development. A team getting a 10% lift across its bottom quarter is a different story.

That is very difficult for me to quantify. The difference in Dallas is that if a team needs a striker they go out and find one. Tulsa just doesn’t have the numbers for our teams to have that luxury. Solar has P4 level girls who don’t start and struggle for PT. A lot of those girls eventually get tired of sitting and become starters on other teams.

Don’t discount the benefit gained by training with high level players. I do believe getting pushed in training by good players has a tangible benefit

 

[ScheelSC]

That is very difficult for me to quantify. The difference in Dallas is that if a team needs a striker they go out and find one. Tulsa just doesn’t have the numbers for our teams to have that luxury. Solar has P4 level girls who don’t start and struggle for PT. A lot of those girls eventually get tired of sitting and become starters on other teams.

Don’t discount the benefit gained by training with high level players. I do believe getting pushed in training by good players has a tangible benefit

I think Lawpoke87 gives by far the best advice and insight into youth girls soccer. He has lived it both locally and in Dallas at both lower level to elite.

 

[Bordare51]

I think WSA 14’s are better than Energy (even though currently ranked behind) But you can’t take the last year since teams have changed since your team went 11v11. Depth will always be a problem for Tulsa teams against bigger markets. At 9v9 WSA was incredible. The 13’s were no different we don’t have the depth the Dallas teams have. I look at what teams have done since August. For your team post Super Copa…..

That makes sense as the switch to 11v11 is a real turning point. It’s not just about roster depth, but also about finding positional identity and a team’s style of play. That’s also why I think it’s tough to make a direct comparison with OEFC or TSC based only on the start of the season as they haven’t faced that developmental transition yet.

We’ve played both teams before, and as @lawpoke87 mentioned, may get another shot soon. Nothing but respect for both — talented players, strong coaching, and competitive environments. As for predictions, I could see either side taking it. I’d be surprised if one dominated the other, but this is Youth Soccer World™, so anything can happen. Stay tuned.

What do you think, @ScheelSC — what’s the key to bringing more girls together? Personally, I think if you build a stronger club culture, success follows, and players will naturally gravitate there. But maybe that’s a bit idealistic given the market pressures families face (“you’ll get more playing time if you move over here,” etc.). Do you think it’s realistic for a TSC, WSA, or even FC Tulsa to consolidate the talent in Tulsa? As mentioned earlier Energy has done such an amazing job at consolidation in OKC that it seems possible, if unlikely.

 

[lawpoke87]

I’ll add on more think and it’s directed at parents of young players. Be patient. This is a marathon. The best players at age 10 aren’t necessarily the best players at age 16. In fact they rarely are. Kids mature. Zero reason to have anxiety because your 8 year old is on the second team (assuming he/she wants to play on the top team). Keep working. Good things will come. What happens when they’re 16 is far more important than at 8.

 

[Bordare51]

1) I believe outside training is important from a young age. It’s difficult to get the touches needed solely from team trainings. It’s also near impossible to work on skills in that setting. Becoming technically proficient is crucial in order to be an elite soccer player. FCD never mentions outside training. The girls (and parents) understand the competition for spots and playing time thus they PT.

2) Others might disagree but I believe nutrition combined with strength and speed training should occur post puberty. So in the 14-15 age range.

This makes sense as the girls I’ve seen who train outside their regular sessions at younger ages tend to advance much faster than those who don’t. I think that factor, combined with the overall cost of club and travel, adds to the socio-economic pressure that ultimately shrinks our player pool. It’s not just that we’re competing with the Dallas area for athletic talent; we’re also competing with the depth of families’ pocketbooks: those who can afford club fees, travel, extra training, and still have the time and energy to make it all happen.

 

[Bordare51]

That is very difficult for me to quantify. The difference in Dallas is that if a team needs a striker they go out and find one. Tulsa just doesn’t have the numbers for our teams to have that luxury. Solar has P4 level girls who don’t start and struggle for PT. A lot of those girls eventually get tired of sitting and become starters on other teams.

Don’t discount the benefit gained by training with high level players. I do believe getting pushed in training by good players has a tangible benefit

That makes sense and is a very daunting reality. Thoughts on the solve for Tulsa? do you think we build better recruiting systems for clubs and adopt the dog-eat-dog mentality? Or better to build a culture from the ground up, invest deep in the girls that have talent and commitment, and specialize in a specific style or system? Something else?

 

[Bordare51]

I think Lawpoke87 gives by far the best advice and insight into youth girls soccer. He has lived it both locally and in Dallas at both lower level to elite.

I also like his perspective b/c he is very objective and balanced, and truly seems to want to help make Tulsa better. Also, a case study in how to drive away the talent that you need. That's why I think the answer has to start with culture, because if I look back to earlier fractures in our youth soccer system a lot of roads seem to lead back to @lawpoke87's experiences. Perhaps it started much earlier but when I read the thread about what happened to his family I was shocked at how bad a culture has to be in order to let those things happen. I'm not bringing that up to dig on any particular club as everyone can have a bad coach, leader, etc. But if we don't accurately assess the damage that causes we won't be able to keep it from happening in the future. And if we don't set that as a community priority(Tulsa, club, team, etc) then it won't BE the priority.

 

[Honkv]

That makes sense and is a very daunting reality. Thoughts on the solve for Tulsa? do you think we build better recruiting systems for clubs and adopt the dog-eat-dog mentality? Or better to build a culture from the ground up, invest deep in the girls that have talent and commitment, and specialize in a specific style or system? Something else?

Part of the solve for tulsa re: talent is: Private training. At least for my daughter, her biggest gains came from private training over the summer at places like Samba.

 

[Honkv]

And I have always believed that talent attracts talent. That's why we have OK girls going to TX to play. Solar has an OKC 12 that was good...hot headed, but good, playing or them now. There was a Tulsa girl that played for Sting Black last year, multiple TSC 13s playing for TX teams, etc.



IMO: If WSA can be at least competititve, that is the first step towards getting the talent back in Tulsa. As I've said before, though: Ego / pride / tribalism / whatever prevented a true consolidation of talent when TSC lost NL.

 

[ScheelSC]

I don't have the answer for bringing the talent together and back (from other teams). I know our team wants to play for Nathan Doll, Practice and play games at Scheels, stay together, play against elite teams. We can control most of those. We don't control (as a team) who is in our league, etc. ECNL decided they didn't want us. We didn't think they should choose what club, location, coach, etc. we should play for.

So what did ECNL get for 2013's

NL. last place (1 goal scored in 6 games). -24 GD. RANKED #613
RL Texas 2014's Last place (Rising has only played 2 games) -21 GD
RL Frontier Tulsa. 8/10 with a -27 GD. RANKED #2208. (This team has to play RL Texas next year)
RL Frontier OKC Last place -71 GD RANKED #3127

What did GA get?
Team ranked #21 in the country.
Tied for first in league.
Plays home games at Scheels (With turf available)
Have given up 4 goals in 10 games (3 being pk's)

This isn't a negative towards WSA. I like a lot of what they do. It just wasn't a fit for us.

Again get your popcorn ready because changes are coming..........

 

[Bringbackwoj]

If this is the best critique you could come up with on a post that outlines a clearly articulated strategy forgive me if I’m not convinced by the argument of “no, just no, bro.”

this is why there are different teams for different types of families. May you find the success you’re looking for!

Soccer seems to be the only sport where I find people in love with the notion that losing every game is somehow beneficial, rooted in this concept of "development." Unless you were winning every game 15-0, which you weren't before.

Like I mentioned before, it is arguable that the RL leagues are worse. You can still "develop" against the top-flight competition in your group. There is such a thing in sports as learning how to win, and that exists in soccer, too.

 

[lawpoke87]

That makes sense and is a very daunting reality. Thoughts on the solve for Tulsa? do you think we build better recruiting systems for clubs and adopt the dog-eat-dog mentality? Or better to build a culture from the ground up, invest deep in the girls that have talent and commitment, and specialize in a specific style or system? Something else?

1) You obviously have to keep the top talent in Tulsa. Easier said than done right.

The culture needs to change. We need to encourage and nurture success. My personal example…my kid never started an U11 game at TSC. She was driven though. Two different TSC coaches invited her to attend their team trainings for extra touches. She did. My phone immediately started ringing. She was forbidden from training with other teams even if invited. I’ve been to a lot of clubs and I’ve never experienced a club that wasn’t willing to give their players additional trainings if requested and approved by the coach. Elite players at TSC faced the same resistance with any additional training. Which is one reason elite players left.

2) Great coaches can build great teams. Pay and keep your best coaches. Give them the resources they need. I know conventional practice is to change coaches every two years. Screw that. As long as they are winning Nathan needs to keep coaching his 13s. Waylon needs to keep coaching his 14s.

Coaches here need to encourage outside training. Especially at the academy level. Far too many complacent coaches at the academy level. Why…same reason why we have complacent players. No one sitting in the wings to replace them

 

[Bringbackwoj]

Simmer down Most teams have only played 6ish of a 15 game season. The standings at this point are largely a reflection of who you have played thus far. For a better picture, go back and look at last year complete season.

Texas league NL boys are a different animal than the girls side as OEFC isn’t competing against the best boys talent in Texas for the most part . Unlike the girls side where the best girls are almost exclusively in NL.

FC Dallas has qualified every NL team for Champions League for three straight years. They will be there at the end of the season. Same for Solar. OEFC will likely have 1 of their 6 teams qualify for Champions league this year. I believe they only had 1 last year as well. History tells us for OEFC to compete with the top of the Texas league they need Tulsa girls. Not my opinion, just a fact.

As far as Real Colorado, Athletico is actually their second team. The talent is pretty spread out in the Denver area once you get past Real.

May I ask the extent of your experience regarding girls ECNL Texas league soccer?

I have refereed hundreds of ECNL and DA games and watch them train all the time, given that I am there 4 days a week too. I go to watch my friend's daughters, who have moved out of Tulsa and still attend their games.

As I mentioned in this thread, I have many close friends and family members who coach or play at local clubs and clubs across the country. We talk ALL THE TIME.

I honestly think most referees are fairly uninformed when it comes to judging play because many have played at a very low level, or none at all. That isn't a knock on Bla. He actually seems pretty knowledgeable.

I am fully aware that Real dominates girls. I did games when Sophia Wilson and Jaelen Howell were playing. When Real had boys, MLS Next, and DA, they regularly beat the Rapids, too. It feels like they have fallen back slightly since Loren has left, but not too much.

Some of the boys' clubs are leaving MLS Next, but others are not. In CO, it is unusual for me to find a Boulder club involved. Boulder kind of sucked before, but MLS Next is its own draw, but Boulder is a pain to get to.

 

[Bringbackwoj]

This is team we are playing:
View attachment 965895
Do you have a source for the top 2014 #1 team in country that is different?

As far as I know a wide range of Texas clubs (and some Florida/Cali clubs?) take the strategy of playing up early into RL for their top u12 2014 teams. I believe they see it as a way to get the girls tactically and technically used to the new formations, bigger fields, and faster pace. Only a few clubs do it due to the difficulty and there are also arguments against it from a developmental perspective (less touches, etc), but I'm a fan of it for us. It looks like the current clubs doing this are FCD, Sting Austin, Solar, Challenge, and Sting Black, Albion, and Dallas Surf. Their "preECNL" teams are still very strong, but not the same level as the teams they send up to play RL.

So I'm confused at what you're saying. Are you saying the big Texas clubs have 2014 teams out there that are a higher level than these 2014 teams playing up in the RL Texas/Ntx/stx conferences? A quick glance at the top Texas 2014 teams tells me that over half are playing up in RL and all of the 'big club' top teams are doing it with the exception of HTX who can't b/c they are GA. The other Oklahoma 2014 teams don't often get a chance to play the very top Texas 2014 teams and when they do, they aren't winning. Not to say they can't b/c those games are competitive and Energy just tied Solars 2014 RL13NTX team So it's within reach, but again this level of nuance is hard to get to when you just look at scoreline+club name and don't acknowledge the difference in level and record.

Which brings me to:

Yes, you can absolutely compare competition levels and records. But it’s not controversial to acknowledge that there’s a clear difference between playing a club’s top team and its second or third team. If we say “we beat FCD 5–0,” yet our top team played their second or third side, then we’ve crossed into the realm of either misunderstanding or propaganda if we let people believe we faced their best. I’m all for celebrating wins and progress, but if we care about an accurate picture of where our team or club truly stands, we have to be transparent about the level of competition we’re facing.

@lawpoke87 You have a lot of experience in the Texas conference -- can you clarify misunderstandings I may have regarding the Texas team's strategy? I think it's important to understand their development strategy so that we can at least be honest in where we are as a community and what we can do to elevate to the next level.

Dude, you are not playing the top team in the country. That is the top RL team. You got smoked by them, too. That is not something to hang your hat on either.

It is no different then Enid coming into Jenks and getting smoked 8-0 and saying awesome.

 

[ScheelSC]

1) You obviously have to keep the top talent in Tulsa. Easier said than done right.

The culture needs to change. We need to encourage and nurture success. My personal example…my kid never started an U11 game at TSC. She was driven though. Two different TSC coaches invited her to attend their team trainings for extra touches. She did. My phone immediately started ringing. She was forbidden from training with other teams even if invited. I’ve been to a lot of clubs and I’ve never experienced a club that wasn’t willing to give their players additional trainings if requested and approved by the coach. Elite players at TSC faced the same resistance with any additional training. Which is one reason elite players left.

2) Great coaches can build great teams. Pay and keep your best coaches. Give them the resources they need. I know conventional practice is to change coaches every two years. Screw that. As long as they are winning Nathan needs to keep coaching his 13s. Waylon needs to keep coaching his 14s.

Coaches here need to encourage outside training. Especially at the academy level. Far too many complacent coaches at the academy level. Why…same reason why we have complacent players. No one sitting in the wings to replace them

I know you harp on that TSC used to not believe in extra trainings but now they don't just recommend it they provide it free of charge on the off nights with top coaches. (for the last 2 year). I think all clubs make bad decisions on coaches, facilities, fees, tournaments, etc. but do they make changes to fix? TSC still does things that drive me crazy as a parent but then I talk to another club dad who has a different issue at that club. When we were at WSA we had issues but I still like the club and would let my daughter play there. Most of the clubs don't have enough support staff, money or resources. How would the clubs in Oklahoma like to have the resources of FC Dallas? It would make things a lot easier........

 

[Honkv]

1) You obviously have to keep the top talent in Tulsa. Easier said than done right.

The culture needs to change. We need to encourage and nurture success. My personal example…my kid never started an U11 game at TSC. She was driven though. Two different TSC coaches invited her to attend their team trainings for extra touches. She did. My phone immediately started ringing. She was forbidden from training with other teams even if invited. I’ve been to a lot of clubs and I’ve never experienced a club that wasn’t willing to give their players additional trainings if requested and approved by the coach. Elite players at TSC faced the same resistance with any additional training. Which is one reason elite players left.

2) Great coaches can build great teams. Pay and keep your best coaches. Give them the resources they need. I know conventional practice is to change coaches every two years. Screw that. As long as they are winning Nathan needs to keep coaching his 13s. Waylon needs to keep coaching his 14s.

Coaches here need to encourage outside training. Especially at the academy level. Far too many complacent coaches at the academy level. Why…same reason why we have complacent players. No one sitting in the wings to replace them

I practically had to beg to get the TSC 12s even allowed at the Weds supplemental trainings. originally, it was only for the boys.

But I had to push and push and push. And it started with "Well, some of the 12 girls can go. Your daughter and a couple of the other "top players"". Then It was okay, well the NL team can go.

Now, it's open to all of the teams / kids.

I shouldn't have had to beg to get them there, especially knowing the 12s were struggling.

 

[Honkv]

I know you harp on that TSC used to not believe in extra trainings but now they don't just recommend it they provide it free of charge on the off nights with top coaches. (for the last 2 year). I think all clubs make bad decisions on coaches, facilities, fees, tournaments, etc. but do they make changes to fix? TSC still does things that drive me crazy as a parent but then I talk to another club dad who has a different issue at that club. When we were at WSA we had issues but I still like the club and would let my daughter play there. Most of the clubs don't have enough support staff, money or resources. How would the clubs in Oklahoma like to have the resources of FC Dallas? It would make things a lot easier........

They did not provide it "free of charge" for the last to years to the girls side. We had to pay for it once I finally got them to allow us to even attend.

 

[ScheelSC]

I practically had to beg to get the TSC 12s even allowed at the Weds supplemental trainings. originally, it was only for the boys.

But I had to push and push and push. And it started with "Well, some of the 12 girls can go. Your daughter and a couple of the other "top players"". Then It was okay, well the NL team can go.

Now, it's open to all of the teams / kids.

I shouldn't have had to beg to get them there, especially knowing the 12s were struggling.

Do you get free 4th night of training at WSA? If so who coaches it?

 

[lawpoke87]

I know you harp on that TSC used to not believe in extra trainings but now they don't just recommend it they provide it free of charge on the off nights with top coaches. (for the last 2 year). I think all clubs make bad decisions on coaches, facilities, fees, tournaments, etc. but do they make changes to fix? TSC still does things that drive me crazy as a parent but then I talk to another club dad who has a different issue at that club. When we were at WSA we had issues but I still like the club and would let my daughter play there. Most of the clubs don't have enough support staff, money or resources. How would the clubs in Oklahoma like to have the resources of FC Dallas? It would make things a lot easier........

That is a huge step in the right direction. As I’ve said many times, I’m a huge Nathan Doll fan. He was great to my kid when we were at TSC and had been fantastic since she left. You’re in great hands but of course you know this. Excited for where your team is headed. Playing for a great coach who your kid has a connection with is so important

 

[Bordare51]

I don't have the answer for bringing the talent together and back (from other teams). I know our team wants to play for Nathan Doll, Practice and play games at Scheels, stay together, play against elite teams. We can control most of those.

I don’t think building a culture of excellence or brand around one club, team, or person is a sustainable or winning strategy for our market.

For example, if TSC builds its brand primarily around Nathan (who we can all agree is outstanding!) and the success of the 2013 GA team, what happens if that team experiences internal challenges or if Nathan moves on to another opportunity? That approach introduces unnecessary risk for TSC, and it’s not healthy for the broader soccer community. It can unintentionally foster competition and infighting rather than collaboration.

That said, perhaps it is the only viable path forward in the short term. If that’s the case, then let’s at least take an objective, data-driven look at club performance. Next year will be a major recruiting year due to the age change, and families will be paying close attention to rankings and development outcomes.

To fairly compare the impact of ECNL and GA, we should avoid cherry-picking teams or blending levels. Using a simple visual I have looked at WSA, TSC, and OEFC. I used green for first place in club grouping (national rankings), yellow for second, and red for last. I looked at teams from 2013–2008/07, and added the 2014s since they’re being highlighted as early indicators of next year’s competitiveness. Including FCT doesn’t significantly change the overall picture.



From that perspective, OEFC stands out as doing an exceptional job of maintaining national-level competitiveness, with all teams ranked in the top 100. They’re also keeping pace with the only two teams just ahead of them. WSA clearly emerges as the next strongest contender, consistently outperforming TSC in all categories but one.

TSC’s 2013s are an excellent example of strong coaching, talent, and performance, but with three players dual participating on ECNL teams, and another who recently left to join an ECNL club, it’s difficult to use that as evidence of GA superiority over ECNL.

Ultimately, I believe we should work to strengthen a shared, community-wide identity across clubs. However, if we’re going to make direct comparisons and promote one club as the “leader” in Tulsa, the data makes it hard to argue that any Tulsa-based player aiming for the highest level wouldn’t choose WSA.

Energy (OEFC) has a compelling story that could easily attract WSA players, which is why I think it’s critical for WSA to focus on building the strongest possible culture. Both to protect against recruiting from OKC and Dallas, and to further consolidate Tulsa talent. Ideally, over time, that same strong identity could even begin to attract players from OKC to Tulsa.

 

[lawpoke87]

Dude, you are not playing the top team in the country. That is the top RL team. You got smoked by them, too. That is not something to hang your hat on either.

It is no different then Enid coming into Jenks and getting smoked 8-0 and saying awesome.

That is actually the top ranked 2014 team playing up in U13 RL. They are coached by one of the top ECNL coaches at FCD. They will play U13 NL next season. Several clubs take this path. This is an instance where not having actual experience with girls ECNL hampers your ability evaluate the landscape.

That said…I do believe you have some valid and insightful thoughts on soccer overall.

 

[Bordare51]

IMO: If WSA can be at least competititve, that is the first step towards getting the talent back in Tulsa. As I've said before, though: Ego / pride / tribalism / whatever prevented a true consolidation of talent when TSC lost NL.

I believe that if we want to stay competitive, we need to start by building the kind of culture that attracts top talent. That aligns with your point about ego, tribalism, and pride getting in the way of consolidation. For WSA to continue growing and sustaining its momentum, the current families at the club need to go all in on creating a great environment. One built on zero tolerance for toxicity and a genuine commitment to personal and team development. The goal should be excellence for its own sake, not just so we can prove ourselves against others. My hypothesis is that if we can do that, the results will come even faster, and the teams will naturally consolidate more as is already starting to happen. We can't make the same mistakes of the past. I may be unrealistically optimistic, but I'll hold that candle for a bit.

 

[ScheelSC]

That is actually the top ranked 2014 team playing up in U13 RL. They are coached by one of the top ECNL coaches at FCD. They will play U13 NL next season. Several clubs take this path. This is an instance where not having actual experience with girls ECNL hampers your ability evaluate the landscape.

That said…I do believe you have some valid and insightful thoughts on soccer overall.

WSA 14’s are legit and will get better tallest wise next year. Hope they keep Waylon!! They also need to keep the bad apples away.

 

[Soccerguy7583]

Wins and losses aside this isn't apples to apples, in GA you should be ranked 21st because the competition is at a lower level. I don't know what the solution is for Tulsa soccer but winning in a less competitive league or getting blasted in a higher level league can't be it. The weekly travel for our girls to OKC sucks (getting home around 11pm) but winning and being in that competitive environment helps. Tulsa had there chance and when I say Tulsa I mean TSC but they never made the girls a priority and when we left it was the girls who made the decision not the parents.

 

[Bordare51]

Dude, you are not playing the top team in the country. That is the top RL team. You got smoked by them, too. That is not something to hang your hat on either.

It is no different then Enid coming into Jenks and getting smoked 8-0 and saying awesome.

I’d definitely cross-post this to #ConfidentlyIncorrect if this were Reddit .

That said, as churlish as your comments may be, I genuinely appreciate them. They spark passion, debate, and reflection, which are all valuable for our growth as a community.

I wouldn’t say I hang my hat on getting beat by FCD’s team, but this thread does seem to rely on anecdotes that get generalized. So I think it’s worth adding a bit of context.

That particular 2014 FCD team is, performance-wise, roughly on par with a Top 20 2013 ECNL/GA team. So if the 2014 FCD team were listed in 2013 rankings they would be ranked 22 behind #21 TSC. They even played the TSC 13G team last year and kept it close in a 2–1 match (a TSC win).

So this is a perfect example of where lack of understanding ends up getting turned into a community narrative that clouds the evaluation of clubs and teams. When evaluating WSA’s performance, it’s important to recognize when we’re measuring ourselves against the top end of elite competition versus getting dunked on by a team we should reasonably expect to beat.

Ultimately, this highlights the need for better education and perspective among parents in Tulsa as it’s easy to get caught up in the narratives without appreciating the nuance of what’s actually happening on the field or in the scoreline.

 

[lawpoke87]

Wins and losses aside this isn't apples to apples, in GA you should be ranked 21st because the competition is at a lower level. I don't know what the solution is for Tulsa soccer but winning in a less competitive league or getting blasted in a higher level league can't be it. The weekly travel for our girls to OKC sucks (getting home around 11pm) but winning and being in that competitive environment helps. Tulsa had there chance and when I say Tulsa I mean TSC but they never made the girls a priority and when we left it was the girls who made the decision not the parents.

The perks of playing on a top 20 team this year and next will be invaluable to those girls. Great matchups in the showcases. A trip to nationals. Playing against great teams from across the country. Multiple college scouts at their games.

 

[ScheelSC]

I don’t think building a culture of excellence or brand around one club, team, or person is a sustainable or winning strategy for our market.

For example, if TSC builds its brand primarily around Nathan (who we can all agree is outstanding!) and the success of the 2013 GA team, what happens if that team experiences internal challenges or if Nathan moves on to another opportunity? That approach introduces unnecessary risk for TSC, and it’s not healthy for the broader soccer community. It can unintentionally foster competition and infighting rather than collaboration.

That said, perhaps it is the only viable path forward in the short term. If that’s the case, then let’s at least take an objective, data-driven look at club performance. Next year will be a major recruiting year due to the age change, and families will be paying close attention to rankings and development outcomes.

To fairly compare the impact of ECNL and GA, we should avoid cherry-picking teams or blending levels. Using a simple visual I have looked at WSA, TSC, and OEFC. I used green for first place in club grouping (national rankings), yellow for second, and red for last. I looked at teams from 2013–2008/07, and added the 2014s since they’re being highlighted as early indicators of next year’s competitiveness. Including FCT doesn’t significantly change the overall picture.

View attachment 966569

From that perspective, OEFC stands out as doing an exceptional job of maintaining national-level competitiveness, with all teams ranked in the top 100. They’re also keeping pace with the only two teams just ahead of them. WSA clearly emerges as the next strongest contender, consistently outperforming TSC in all categories but one.

TSC’s 2013s are an excellent example of strong coaching, talent, and performance, but with three players dual participating on ECNL teams, and another who recently left to join an ECNL club, it’s difficult to use that as evidence of GA superiority over ECNL.

Ultimately, I believe we should work to strengthen a shared, community-wide identity across clubs. However, if we’re going to make direct comparisons and promote one club as the “leader” in Tulsa, the data makes it hard to argue that any Tulsa-based player aiming for the highest level wouldn’t choose WSA.

Energy (OEFC) has a compelling story that could easily attract WSA players, which is why I think it’s critical for WSA to focus on building the strongest possible culture. Both to protect against recruiting from OKC and Dallas, and to further consolidate Tulsa talent. Ideally, over time, that same strong identity could even begin to attract players from OKC to Tulsa.

First, we had a player leave who lost her starting position to a girl who came over from Blitz. She is a great kid who wants to play for our team but her parents want to chase the ECNL badge and she couldn’t make NL at Energy so is trying to work her way through RL. I’m glad you listed all the ranking. Everyone knows ECNL is the biggest draw for most girls. He the kicker though…..To make the Playoffs in Texas NL you need probably need to be in the top 10-25 Nationally. Not many of those teams on that list. Girls more than boys want to win. GA girls for the most part aren’t winning. ECNL girls aren’t winning. In many cases both NL and GA girls are getting embarrassed in games.

 

[Bordare51]

WSA 14’s are legit and will get better tallest wise next year. Hope they keep Waylon!! They also need to keep the bad apples away.

I’ve had nothing but great experiences so far, and I’ll gladly stand up and advocate for WSA any chance I get. The coaches, parents, and players (all of them) have been outstanding. It truly feels like a perfect ten environment.

I understand that the tougher competition and the grit required to develop in a stronger conference can be a turnoff for some families. It’s important for everyone to approach their choices with eyes wide open. While our family prioritizes culture and growth through challenge, I don’t judge families who place more value on scoreline or standings.

That said, I see this team developing in a way that builds real trust in the process. And that, to me, is one of the most encouraging signs of all.

 

[lawpoke87]

I do feel bad for the 2010 group. Together between WSA and TSC that group is 0-16-3 this season. Just a tough deal.

 

[ScheelSC]

Wins and losses aside this isn't apples to apples, in GA you should be ranked 21st because the competition is at a lower level. I don't know what the solution is for Tulsa soccer but winning in a less competitive league or getting blasted in a higher level league can't be it. The weekly travel for our girls to OKC sucks (getting home around 11pm) but winning and being in that competitive environment helps. Tulsa had there chance and when I say Tulsa I mean TSC but they never made the girls a priority and when we left it was the girls who made the decision not the parents.

We were ranked high before GA. The ranking system is an algorithm that will probably hurt us going forward. Why didn’t you go to WSA?