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13th in the Big Ten this year

Max_Power

Max_Power

Junior
May 29, 2001
2,947
214
51
gocatsgo2003 said:
Now we're dragging Law and/or Pardon? Nice.
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Two sides to every story. No one is dragging anyone. There was a chemistry issue last year and it appears to have played a big part in the season. I heard one side and Kelly_32 heard the other. I can tell you from watching most of the games at Allstate last year, Scottie Lindsey looked like he did not want to be on the court many nights and it was maddening as a fan. You could gauge his interest level by how he warmed up. If he was bouncy, he was interested. If he was flat with his shoulders dropped, ugh. I don't know why Lindsey had issues but it was clear that he did. For all we know, there was a legit reason behind. But to deny it was an issue for the team last year is wrong. I never heard Pardon's name come up on either side of the issue. Pardon played hard every minute last year.
 
Max_Power

Max_Power

Junior
May 29, 2001
2,947
214
51
haywood jahblowme said:
i have heard 2 things

the current roster has great team chemistry lead by law and pardon

the team is well aware of the 13th spot prediction and excited to prove people wrong
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Let's just hope they can find someone to get the ball up the floor. Starting PG, Pete Nance? :rolleyes:
 
H

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,210
1,069
113
Max_Power said:
Two sides to every story. No one is dragging anyone. There was a chemistry issue last year and it appears to have played a big part in the season. I heard one side and Kelly_32 heard the other. I can tell you from watching most of the games at Allstate last year, Scottie Lindsey looked like he did not want to be on the court many nights and it was maddening as a fan. You could gauge his interest level by how he warmed up. If he was bouncy, he was interested. If he was flat with his shoulders dropped, ugh. I don't know why Lindsey had issues but it was clear that he did. For all we know, there was a legit reason behind. But to deny it was an issue for the team last year is wrong. I never heard Pardon's name come up on either side of the issue. Pardon played hard every minute last year.
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You could also tell how he would play the game if he hit one of his first couple shots or did not. If he did, he would generally play pretty well the rest of the game. If he did not, it was going to be a long night
 
G

Gocatsgo2003

All-Conference
Mar 30, 2006
46,618
2,980
78
Kelly_32 said:
There’s really no point. There were obvious chemistry issues last year and it’s over with. What’s done is done.
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Good thing you took it upon yourself to point out that the “biggest issue” is still in the program with insufficient backbone to actually name names.
 
K

Kelly_32_rivals

All-American
Dec 12, 2004
9,832
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gocatsgo2003 said:
Good thing you took it upon yourself to point out that the “biggest issue” is still in the program with insufficient backbone to actually name names.
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Yeah, you’re right. I probably shouldn’t have said anything but Max_Power implied that McIntosh was an issue and that’s simply not true.

I’ll shut up now.
 
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Gocatsgo2003

All-Conference
Mar 30, 2006
46,618
2,980
78
Kelly_32 said:
Yeah, you’re right. I probably shouldn’t have said anything but Max_Power implied that McIntosh was an issue and that’s simply not true.

I’ll shut up now.
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Way to go. Slink back into anonymity after throwing a college kid through the mud.
 
DaCat

DaCat

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
25,496
1,880
113
Hopefully the chemistry works for newcomers like Taylor, Turner, and the frosh. I trust the leadership and efforts of Law and Pardon.
 
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NJCat

All-Conference
Mar 7, 2016
21,326
1,500
113
DaCat said:
Hopefully the chemistry works for newcomers like Taylor, Turner, and the frosh. I trust the leadership and efforts of Law and Pardon.
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Creating the culture....

 
E

EvanstonCat

Senior
May 29, 2001
50,759
762
73
Kelly_32 said:
There’s really no point. There were obvious chemistry issues last year and it’s over with. What’s done is done.
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This is a far cry from an assertion that the "biggest problem" is still with the team.

Unless you meant Collins, I fail to see who else it could possibly be.
 
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haywood jahblowme

Redshirt
Aug 5, 2010
4,995
38
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i didn't consider you are talking about a staff member, but from a player standpoint there is no distractions or bad attitude guys
 
Max_Power

Max_Power

Junior
May 29, 2001
2,947
214
51
Kelly - this is implied but only bc I never heard BMac’s side. I was told about the issues with the team from the other point of view. I think I tried to explain this and I’m sorry. If you want to know where I lay the real blame .... Collins has the have the presence to make the players ignore grievances and play together. He admitted his failure in this regard to some degree.
 
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NUCat320

Senior
Dec 4, 2005
19,469
495
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Max_Power said:
If you want to know where I lay the real blame .... Collins has the have the presence to make the players ignore grievances and play together. He admitted his failure in this regard to some degree.
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Bingo!

On a senior-led roster with limited nba prospects, there was no excuse for last year’s team to not all be marching in the same direction.
 
DaCat

DaCat

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
25,496
1,880
113
NUCat320 said:
Bingo!

On a senior-led roster with limited nba prospects, there was no excuse for last year’s team to not all be marching in the same direction.
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It was a psychological hangover from the first-ever NCAA appearance.

I think it's safe to say we are back down to earth.
 
V

VirginiaWildcat

Junior
Aug 31, 2001
23,343
332
0
Max_Power said:
Collins has the have the presence to make the players ignore grievances and play together. He admitted his failure in this regard to some degree.
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I’m sure he tried. Definitely easier said than done. Especially since we don’t know the actual level of anamosity between the players.
 
Max_Power

Max_Power

Junior
May 29, 2001
2,947
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VirginiaWildcat said:
I’m sure he tried. Definitely easier said than done. Especially since we don’t know the actual level of anamosity between the players.
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Don't disagree but he did also admit he mishandled the team. What I am getting at in a backhanded way is that successful programs overcome divisions. For whatever reason, last year's Cats team did not. I am glad that the early reports from Haywood are positive that this is not an issue with the current team.
 
V

VirginiaWildcat

Junior
Aug 31, 2001
23,343
332
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Max_Power said:
Don't disagree but he did also admit he mishandled the team. What I am getting at in a backhanded way is that successful programs overcome divisions. For whatever reason, last year's Cats team did not. I am glad that the early reports from Haywood are positive that this is not an issue with the current team.
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Agree wholeheartedly. Having coached myself, bringing the team together is pretty essential for success. For whatever reason, it didn’t happen last season and as a result it prevented them from being a good team. Hoping things will be different this season.
 
BosCat

BosCat

Sophomore
Nov 29, 2008
1,268
172
63
NUCat320 said:
Bingo!

On a senior-led roster with limited nba prospects, there was no excuse for last year’s team to not all be marching in the same direction.
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Hopefully this year they will be MARCHing in the same direction!
 
E

EvanstonCat

Senior
May 29, 2001
50,759
762
73
Kelly_32 said:
Yeah, you’re right. I probably shouldn’t have said anything but Max_Power implied that McIntosh was an issue and that’s simply not true.

I’ll shut up now.
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Defending MacIntosh is not the same as saying that the biggest issue is still on the team.
 
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EvanstonCat

Senior
May 29, 2001
50,759
762
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Max_Power said:
Kelly - this is implied but only bc I never heard BMac’s side. I was told about the issues with the team from the other point of view. I think I tried to explain this and I’m sorry. If you want to know where I lay the real blame .... Collins has the have the presence to make the players ignore grievances and play together. He admitted his failure in this regard to some degree.
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I think Collins definitely deserves much of the blame to let it happen. Picking 4 captains was part of the problem. No one was listening to each other or getting the team together. I would be shocked it we left it at two this year. Pardon and Law. And only if they weren't the biggest issues last year.

And perhaps there wasn't as much an issue with any one or two players, but that there wasn't any chemistry and there was bickering and a lack of leadership. It takes at least two to tango and if you don't have clear leadership structure, that doesn't help. From the posts here (especially Max referring to two sides), it would seem that Pardon/Law did not see eye to eye somehow with Mac (and likelyLindsey - who in his own way seems to have been part of the problem in his effort and attitude - maybe Mac defended him, was his best friend, who knows what the dynamics were).

But, maybe Kelly was referring to the coaching staff being responsible for most of the blame, in which case I could also buy that.
 
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Max_Power

Max_Power

Junior
May 29, 2001
2,947
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EvanstonCat said:
I think Collins definitely deserves much of the blame to let it happen. Picking 4 captains was part of the problem. No one was listening to each other or getting the team together. I would be shocked it we left it at two this year. Pardon and Law. And only if they weren't the biggest issues last year.

And perhaps there wasn't as much an issue with any one or two players, but that there wasn't any chemistry and there was bickering and a lack of leadership. It takes at least two to tango and if you don't have clear leadership structure, that doesn't help. From the posts here (especially Max referring to two sides), it would seem that Pardon/Law did not see eye to eye somehow with Mac (and likelyLindsey - who in his own way seems to have been part of the problem in his effort and attitude - maybe Mac defended him, was his best friend, who knows what the dynamics were).

But, maybe Kelly was referring to the coaching staff being responsible for most of the blame, in which case I could also buy that.
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Skelly not Pardon.
 
K

Kelly_32_rivals

All-American
Dec 12, 2004
9,832
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Look, I apologize. I shouldn't have said anything. The one post struck a nerve. So much **** went on last season and none of it needs to be discussed on a message board.
 
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EvanstonCat

Senior
May 29, 2001
50,759
762
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Max_Power said:
Skelly not Pardon.
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Sorry - I forgot was Skelly one of the captains and not Pardon? I guess that makes sense.

So was it Skelly/Law vs. Lindsey/Mac? Was that the diametric we're talking about here?

If so, I know who I would side with based on performances and observed effort last year.

Or was there even a diametric, or was it just a lack of general cohesion amongst all of the 4 captains?
 
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