2 weeks to discuss, can we?

[brianpoe]

The pumpers and haters will always battle on this board, but during the off period lets see if both sides can come be open to each other's opinions in order to improve some dialogue.

There will always be merriman's who can find reasons to defend a coach who loses every game and several who will never be pleased no matter how many final fours.

That said, this is how I see both sides:


Pumpers

Offense
Oline has vastly improved.
Running game has vastly improved.
Snell may be star.

Defense
Dline and linebackers have improved.
Shut down 2 SEC offenses
Very young with a bunch of sophomores.

Thoughts
Beat 2 SEC teams
MSU is down
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game is definite, if not 5 wins including 3 SEC victories is an improvement.

Stoops has turned the tide.


Haters

Offense
QB cannot throw
Turnover rate is alarming

Defense
Shut down the 2 worst offenses in the league
Why are we young every year?

Thoughts
Southern Miss is looking like a bad loss
Florida is the only good team we have played and destroyed us
NMSU dropped 42 on us without their star player at running back
USCjr has their worse squad since joining the SEC
Vandy offense is bad, their QB was bad, their only star was hurt in the 4th qtr

MSU is down but their coach hasnt lost to UK
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down w/new coach but talent disparity is still large and lots of time before we play them
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game not happening, SEC East is down again and 3 straight 5 win seasons, especially in year 4 is not improvement.

Stoops has yet to make solid halftime adjustments.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

We dont have to agree with each other but both sides should be able to see points each is trying to make.


Feel free to point out what I am missing from each side.

 

[JPFisher]

I think that both sides are looking at the QB issue differently.

From my view, it seems that a lot of fans have incredibly high expectations for a dual threat QB in his first year with the program. I think he's gotten better with ball protection, foot work, knowing when to scramble, etc.

Just not sure he has the arm to keep defenses honest. How long will the run game pull us along if we can't pass?

I'm interested to see if Hinshaw can improve Johnson's passing. Stephen was lofting a lot in yesterday's game and I think he will be able to get better accuracy, but I'm not sold that he's capable of putting adequate zip on the ball to be a long term solution to Barker's injury.

 

[brianpoe]

I think that both sides are looking at the QB issue differently.

From my view, it seems that a lot of fans have incredibly high expectations for a dual that QB in his first year with the program. I think he's gotten better with ball protection, foot work, knowing when to scramble, etc.

Just not sure he has the arm to keep defenses honest. How long will the run game pull us along if we can't pass?

I'm interested to see if Hinshaw can improve Johnson's passing. Stephen was lofting a lot in yesterday's game and I think he will be able to get better accuracy, but I'm not sold that he's capable of putting adequate zip on the ball to be a long term solution to Barker's injury.

Good point on Johnson.

If the Baker/PT situation had been handled better last year we probably still could have had them both here.

 

[K_TIME]

- So Miss is a bad loss...no way to pretty that up.
- Beating USD/Vandy are good strides for this team
- Winning w/o Barker is a plus to the staff to have a gameplan to win with Stephen Johnson. We have to admit...we hoped the passing would be the steady part of our entire team and to win w/o it is a good coaching adjustment.
- Gran's only negative is we are a TO machine on offense...he needs to clean up taking care of the ball.

- Defense...what was looking like a bottom 5 defense nationally after NMSU...have turned things around.
- Scraping the 3-4 and going more 4-3 has been a good adjustment.
- We have two solid edge rushers in Allen and Ware to build upon for next few years.
- Mike Edwards looks like the kind of physical safety we play against....the kid has really gotten it together.

 

[Tskware]

Good post, agree on all points

 

[Saguaro Cat]

Yah. Great. Hey, can you also agree to limit "the discussion" to just this thread? Or just those that its relevant to. Because I'm tired of how every thread has to have some ahole throw in a remark about Stoops, not hiring Petrino, or getting an extension.

I made a post about just simply being glad we won the game. No agenda. But then come the chuckleheads who have to make everything about firing Stoops. Make a post about ridiculous Louisville fans, and the miserable "fans" have to bring up we didn't hire Petrino.

Give it a rest. Not everything has to be about this topic.

 

[JPFisher]

- So Miss is a bad loss...no way to pretty that up.
- Beating USD/Vandy are good strides for this team
- Winning w/o Barker is a plus to the staff to have a gameplan to win with Stephen Johnson. We have to admit...we hoped the passing would be the steady part of our entire team and to win w/o it is a good coaching adjustment.
- Gran's only negative is we are a TO machine on offense...he needs to clean up taking care of the ball.

- Defense...what was looking like a bottom 5 defense nationally after NMSU...have turned things around.
- Scraping the 3-4 and going more 4-3 has been a good adjustment.
- We have two solid edge rushers in Allen and Ware to build upon for next few years.
- Mike Edwards looks like the kind of physical safety we play against....the kid has really gotten it together.

I'll gladly eat crow as of right now. The 4-3 is looking good and I honestly didn't think we had the personnel for it. We might be in trouble if we lose a player or two to injury, but the 4-3 is paying off as of this moment.

 

[vhcat70]

- Gran's only negative is we are a TO machine on offense...he needs to clean up taking care of the ball.

You saw how much Boom played after that TO, right? His QB alternatives are much more limited.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

It just feels like Johnson's passing ability has regressed each game. He went from passing accurately against NMSU and each weak its devolved accuracy wise and this game against Vandy he was off on his passes by a lot... Cant believe he didnt have more interceptions than what he had yesterday.

 

[JPFisher]

Good point on Johnson.

If the Baker/PT situation had been handled better last year we probably still could have had them both here.

Hell, I wish we'd have been able to hold onto Phillips at the least. Was supposed to be accurate and quick. Not as dynamic as Barker, but also not as maneuverable as Johnson. A pocket passer game manager by most accounts.

Oh well. Let's see if Johnson can get back to his previous proficiency.

 

[vhcat70]

It just feels like Johnson's passing ability has regressed each game. He went from passing accurately against NMSU and each weak its devolved accuracy wise and this game against Vandy he was off on his passes by a lot... Cant believe he didnt have more interceptions than what he had yesterday.

Seems that way to me too. But then the D's we faced each week since have improved. SJ seems to have gotten less & less confident.

 

[willyclyde]

U have the pumpers..u have the haters..then u have the umm's in a category of their own. What should we call that one?

 

[Blue Decade]

The pumpers and haters will always battle on this board, but during the off period lets see if both sides can come be open to each other's opinions in order to improve some dialogue.

There will always be merriman's who can find reasons to defend a coach who loses every game and several who will never be pleased no matter how many final fours.

That said, this is how I see both sides:


Pumpers

Offense
Oline has vastly improved.
Running game has vastly improved.
Snell may be star.

Defense
Dline and linebackers have improved.
Shut down 2 SEC offenses
Very young with a bunch of sophomores.

Thoughts
Beat 2 SEC teams
MSU is down
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game is definite, if not 5 wins including 3 SEC victories is an improvement.

Stoops has turned the tide.


Haters

Offense
QB cannot throw
Turnover rate is alarming

Defense
Shut down the 2 worst offenses in the league
Why are we young every year?

Thoughts
Southern Miss is looking like a bad loss
Florida is the only good team we have played and destroyed us
NMSU dropped 42 on us without their star player at running back
USCjr has their worse squad since joining the SEC
Vandy offense is bad, their QB was bad, their only star was hurt in the 4th qtr

MSU is down but their coach hasnt lost to UK
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down w/new coach but talent disparity is still large and lots of time before we play them
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game not happening, SEC East is down again and 3 straight 5 win seasons, especially in year 4 is not improvement.

Stoops has yet to make solid halftime adjustments.

We dont have to agree with each other but both sides should be able to see points each is trying to make.


Feel free to point out what I am missing from each side.

1st of all, it is a sad commentary that you based a potentially significant post on the pumpers-haters stuff, trying to appeal to both "sides". Are you running for an office? LOL! You are incorrect in saying Stoops hasn't yet made effective halftime adjustments, although I certainly wouldn't call that his staff's greatest strength. Analyzing prior losses is not a constructive use of our time because most of the "haters", as you put it, can't do it without concluding with a demand to immediately hire Leach. The path to a bowl is very narrow. Kentucky must beat both Mississippi State and Missouri, or else Kentucky must spring a very significant upset. With a 2nd string quarterback. The biggest litmus test-like remaining game is Mississippi State, because they are down this year and they must come to Lexington. If Stoops is ever going to best Dan Mullen, this has to be the year. All along, I have predicted 4-5 wins in 2016 and Stoops will be back in 2017. That prediction still looks right to me. And I am neither a pumper or a hater.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

The pumpers and haters will always battle on this board, but during the off period lets see if both sides can come be open to each other's opinions in order to improve some dialogue.

There will always be merriman's who can find reasons to defend a coach who loses every game and several who will never be pleased no matter how many final fours.

That said, this is how I see both sides:


Pumpers

Offense
Oline has vastly improved.
Running game has vastly improved.
Snell may be star.

Defense
Dline and linebackers have improved.
Shut down 2 SEC offenses
Very young with a bunch of sophomores.

Thoughts
Beat 2 SEC teams
MSU is down
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game is definite, if not 5 wins including 3 SEC victories is an improvement.

Stoops has turned the tide.


Haters

Offense
QB cannot throw
Turnover rate is alarming

Defense
Shut down the 2 worst offenses in the league
Why are we young every year?

Thoughts
Southern Miss is looking like a bad loss
Florida is the only good team we have played and destroyed us
NMSU dropped 42 on us without their star player at running back
USCjr has their worse squad since joining the SEC
Vandy offense is bad, their QB was bad, their only star was hurt in the 4th qtr

MSU is down but their coach hasnt lost to UK
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down w/new coach but talent disparity is still large and lots of time before we play them
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game not happening, SEC East is down again and 3 straight 5 win seasons, especially in year 4 is not improvement.

Stoops has yet to make solid halftime adjustments.

We dont have to agree with each other but both sides should be able to see points each is trying to make.


Feel free to point out what I am missing from each side.

Good post and agree. That said, I think you forgot about one other good team we have played and lost go b y a ton.

 

[docholiday51]

We have 2 weeks to get 100% healthy,the return of Kg Daniel will help.The coaches must come up with a defined plan at the QB spot,maybe Barker's status will be more certain,if he is able to go then we can use him and Johnson both at times.If Barker is still a no go we have to make a decision on Hoak or a second option and actually be ready to play them in something other than an emergency situation.

We have gotten to the point where the season may not be a total loss(after the first 2 and a half games that looked more probable than possible.We have a shot at a bowl,maybe not a good shot but a shot none the less.

Stoops needs wins to keep his job and also to be taken seriously in the SEC coaching ranks but the program needs wins maybe even more because of recruiting,some extra practice time and for the players already here, we have some good Sophs and Frosh they need to feel that they are a part of something positive

We don't need to start over next year,we have been thru 3 OC's in three years,we will and probably should see some shuffling on defense next year.

It will be an uphill battle to 5 wins and a small mountain to get to 6 but I hope we pull out all the stops trying to get there

 

[brianpoe]

You are incorrect in saying Stoops hasn't yet made effective halftime adjustments, although I certainly wouldn't call that his staff's greatest strength. And I am neither a pumper or a hater.

Not incorrect in Stoop's halftime adjustments, this is my opinion of what many of the "haters" believe.

Not that i disagree too much with that one.


You are probably the biggest self-pumper on the site. You would have 200,000 likes if we could like our own posts... LOL

We most likely know each other, pretty sure we know many of the same people. Available lunch anytime.

 

[Blue Decade]

You are probably the biggest self-pumper on the site.

Pot calling kettle black. And I haven't violated any NCAA rules.

 

[brianpoe]

Good post and agree. That said, I think you forgot about one other good team we have played and lost go b y a ton.

Bama is terrible, if we had Barker we would have won by 5 TD's
- UMM

just sayin...


I totally discount that game for some reason, I guess it was always going to be a loss and yet we didnt look too terrible. Just slips my mind.

I do hate moral losses when are beat by 4 TD's...

 

[brianpoe]

Pot calling kettle black. And I haven't violated any NCAA rules.

Hello Kettle, neither have I, not even Calipari close.

I was joking with you, thus the LOL...

But if you want to be a an *** thats ok too.

 

[Blue Decade]

It just feels like Johnson's passing ability has regressed each game. He went from passing accurately against NMSU and each weak its devolved accuracy wise and this game against Vandy he was off on his passes by a lot... Cant believe he didnt have more interceptions than what he had yesterday.

Johnson is an inexperienced SEC quarterback with poor pocket fundamentals. For that reason, his accuracy suffers and his turnovers skyrocket when he is faced with an effective SEC pass rush.

 

[Blueaz]

I'll gladly eat crow as of right now. The 4-3 is looking good and I honestly didn't think we had the personnel for it. We might be in trouble if we lose a player or two to injury, but the 4-3 is paying off as of this moment.

I hope I get to eat crow.
But the "team" still seems to be behind where they should be at this point.
Adjustments (defensive and offensive) are better, but still only C grade.
Obviously, the offense is far behind where thsy should be.
Our secondary, a preseason strength. I can only say "WTH"
Special teams, who knows. Jekyl and Hyde
And now we are suddenly penalty prone.
Ms state (the entire performance) will show if their is hope or dread for the rest of the season, and maybe next year.

But as UK luck will go... We will play very well. Toe to toe, even have the lead late in the fourth. Then we throw a crazy interception on a trick play returned for TD; and then after a conservative 3 and out, one of a secondary will pop hammy on coverage and another TD for a state win.

 

[Blue Decade]

Hello Pot, neither have I, not even Calipari close.

I was joking with you, thus the LOL...

But if you want to be a an *** thats ok too.

So you were joking? I must have struck a nerve there. I don't have to justify myself to you. Didn't you just invite me to lunch?

 

[brianpoe]

So you were joking? I must have struck a nerve there. I don't have to justify myself to you. Didn't you just invite me to lunch?

I was joking.

Mostly in reference to the multiple self back-slapping posts the past few days regarding how correct you were in predicting how the season would go.

Which thus far has been very accurate.

But yes, just a joke.

And of course lunch invitation is still open, I'm not going to let a message board post get in the way of meeting and discussing sports with a fellow fan.

 

[morgousky]

U have the pumpers..u have the haters..then u have the umm's in a category of their own. What should we call that one?

The deplorables.

 

[morgousky]

On this hater vs. pumper thing, It's a bit inaccurate.

I will give credit to this coach when he earns it. He hasn't earned anything. All he's done thus far is take an insanely high contract for his past achievements and performed under average.

I am A UK fan, not a Stoops fan. I will be a Stoops fan when he produces. I know he's not the guy for what I'd like to see, But I'd also be extremely happy to be wrong. Being wrong means UK football is winning 7-10 games a year, competing for the east some years, and has a strong foundation to come up from the doormat. I'd rather be wrong than Uk suck.

AS far as the breakdown above, The "haters" are just seeing the realistic POV. It's not hating if it's the truth. You can add a "but" at the end of every pumper statement and finish it with the hater statements. Like this.

pumper - "we've beat two SEC teams" - BUT - USC has their worst team since before spurrier, and e barely won at home, in stoops 4th year. Also Vandy, at home, barely.

pumper - "we are very young with a bunch of sophomores - BUT - We're using that excuse every year.

I mean, it seems the pumper POV just makes a half *** statement and doesn't want to finish it off.

 

[DCFseattle]

OP, you said Florida is the only good team we've played.

iirc, Alabama is alright.

 

[morgousky]

OP, you said Florida is the only good team we've played.

iirc, Alabama is alright.

You're right.

We've played two good teams, and they both destroyed us.

 

[morgousky]

Question for the guys that consider themselves "pumpers".

If Uk wins 4 or 5 this year, do you want to extend Stoops for aother year? If yes, and he goes without another bowl, will you admit you can't foresee a disaster hire and stop pumping future coaches in year 4 when they haven't proven anything? OR will you just continue that schtick?

Are you happy with Stoops winning 6 games every 5 years?

Are you OK with giving bad hires a half decade each time we make a new hire? Remember, you're only guaranteed an average of 14 half decades in your life, it's not like your time is unlimited to see UK football do well.

Just wondering?

 

[brianpoe]

OP, you said Florida is the only good team we've played.

iirc, Alabama is alright.

I'm mean...they ok I guess...

yeah missed it

 

[merrimanm]

Good point on Johnson.

If the Baker/PT situation had been handled better last year we probably still could have had them both here.

Curious as to how it should have been handled? How was it handled poorly? In my mind they did exactlywhat they should have. Towles won the job and the stuck with him until he proved to not be the answer. Actually, the mistake to me was not player Barker sooner. Towles had plenty of time to prove this team was his.

 

[morgousky]

Curious as to how it should have been handled? How was it handled poorly? In my mind they did exactlywhat they should have. Towles won the job and the stuck with him until he proved to not be the answer. Actually, the mistake to me was not player Barker sooner. Towles had plenty of time to prove this team was his.

As someone who preferred Barker to Towles ( and still believe he's more talented as a natural QB) , I've even admitted they misused Towles Terribly. Keeping him in the pocket was taking away his real strength. Another screw up by Doops.

 

[merrimanm]

As someone who preferred Barker to Towles ( and still believe he's more talented as a natural QB) , I've even admitted they misused Towles Terribly. Keeping him in the pocket was taking away his real strength. Another screw up by Doops.

I do think not allowing him to run was a very bad idea. It proves to me again how bad Dawson was. But still don't understand how they handled the "situation" poorly.

 

[Soupbean]

The pumpers and haters will always battle on this board, but during the off period lets see if both sides can come be open to each other's opinions in order to improve some dialogue.

There will always be merriman's who can find reasons to defend a coach who loses every game and several who will never be pleased no matter how many final fours.

That said, this is how I see both sides:


Pumpers

Offense
Oline has vastly improved.
Running game has vastly improved.
Snell may be star.

Defense
Dline and linebackers have improved.
Shut down 2 SEC offenses
Very young with a bunch of sophomores.

Thoughts
Beat 2 SEC teams
MSU is down
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game is definite, if not 5 wins including 3 SEC victories is an improvement.

Stoops has turned the tide.


Haters

Offense
QB cannot throw
Turnover rate is alarming

Defense
Shut down the 2 worst offenses in the league
Why are we young every year?

Thoughts
Southern Miss is looking like a bad loss
Florida is the only good team we have played and destroyed us
NMSU dropped 42 on us without their star player at running back
USCjr has their worse squad since joining the SEC
Vandy offense is bad, their QB was bad, their only star was hurt in the 4th qtr

MSU is down but their coach hasnt lost to UK
Mizzou is an unknown
UGA is down w/new coach but talent disparity is still large and lots of time before we play them
Austin Peay is a win

Bowl Game not happening, SEC East is down again and 3 straight 5 win seasons, especially in year 4 is not improvement.

Stoops has yet to make solid halftime adjustments.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

We dont have to agree with each other but both sides should be able to see points each is trying to make.


Feel free to point out what I am missing from each side.

 

[Soupbean]

I think that is a pretty good breakdown Brian and all can be somewhat accurate on both sides.

A couple of things that makes me lean towards the Pumper crowd right now are . . .

1. Not only has both sides of our line improved but they've done it mixing in guys on both sides that in the beginning of the year were not expected to be counted on. And we're not only mixing them in but at different positions!
My take early was we had no quality depth on DLine especially with Meant gone and with Leavitt not being as we expected thought we were pretty much the same on the Oline. But they have been rotating in the guys we though weren't ready to help and we've gotten better. I was looking out there one time and saw us with 3 Olinemen at new positions and they were pumped up dancing at the line of scrimmage waiting for the timeout to end. That is promising.

2. The second thing is I know how much better we can look immediately with better QB play. If Johnson's light can come on with some confidence throwing the ball I get the feeling we are going to be a tough out for some to play. Right now we're doing this without our strongest position being utilized (WR) so if he does this yes I'm optimistic.

So while I know we are not to the point we are going to beat anybody easily yet, I think our floor has certainly been raised and solidified to where we're becoming much more sound in a lot of areas.

 

[ukalum1988]

The deplorables.

HRC approves.

 

[morgousky]

HRC approves.

I don't use her name.

 

[ukalum1988]

Question for the guys that consider themselves "pumpers".

If Uk wins 4 or 5 this year, do you want to extend Stoops for aother year? [ukalum: NO] If yes, and he goes without another bowl, will you admit you can't foresee a disaster hire and stop pumping future coaches in year 4 when they haven't proven anything? OR will you just continue that schtick?

Are you happy with Stoops winning 6 games every 5 years?[ukalum: NO]

Are you OK with giving bad hires a half decade each time we make a new hire? [ukalum: Depends. The dumpster fire CMS inherited should allow him four years; normally by year three it should be apparent. Hence not even Mitch could let Joker have a fourth year. Here we are in year 4 and it should be bowl or bust.] Remember, you're only guaranteed an average of 14 half decades in your life, it's not like your time is unlimited to see UK football do well.

Just wondering?

I try not to classify myself as a pumper or a hater; I just want the team to win every time they take the field. I've embedded my response to your questions inside your post.

 

[morgousky]

I do think not allowing him to run was a very bad idea. It proves to me again how bad Dawson was. But still don't understand how they handled the "situation" poorly.

Well they never got a handle on it. Stoops watched his best strength be taken away and it was all downhill from there. It goes back to leadership. Find your QB, work with him to coral the locker room, use his strengths, and it usually comes together. Stoops is either not suited as the head man, or he's learning how really slowly.

 

[merrimanm]

Well they never got a handle on it. Stoops watched his best strength be taken away and it was all downhill from there. It goes back to leadership. Find your QB, work with him to coral the locker room, use his strengths, and it usually comes together. Stoops is either not suited as the head man, or he's learning how really slowly.

Well, now I thought Stoops should keep his nose out of the offense? Which one is it?

 

[morgousky]

Well, now I thought Stoops should keep his nose out of the offense? Which one is it?

I never said that.

My opinion is If you're going to hire your buddy and retain him even after he's awful, you better have a plan as a head coach on both sides of the ball. Stoops is a HEAD coach, it's his ship.