I know everyone is pissed about not making a bowl this year which is 100% fine because we should have pulled off a win against Auburn or at the very least Vandy but thats over with now. When analyzing this coaching staff and this team in general you have to feel like they overachieved somewhat early this year which in turn got our expectations running wild. We had people thinking UK may win 8 maybe 9 games which is absolutely crazy. We need to allow this coaching staff to recruit and get 2 deep at every position. I know this is an overused statement but Stoops started with a bare roster of mid-major talent. Love the guys we had but its true. He is recruiting hard and keeping the in-state kids which is what is needed but when you depend on WR's who are all TRUE Soph and RB's who are TRUE Soph then offensive linemen who are TRUE Freshmen or Soph you have problems. These kids are facing 4 or 5 year players who were 4 stars for the most part. Our D-Line had a TRUE Soph playing nose tackle, RS Fresh playing end and either TRUE Freshmen or RS Freshmen playing in the secondary. I think the future is very bright in perspective of what the UK Football program is about. We are not Alabama and never will be. We are not Ohio State and never will be. But we can be a 6-8 win team every year and every so often throw a 9 win season out there under these coaches. As my title stated we are not 1 year but 2 years away from achieving the ultimate goal of competing with every team in the conference. In 2 years you have QB- jr RB- sr WR's- sr TE- jr OL- sr,sr,soph,jr,soph that looks really good with lots of experience there. In 2 years on defense you have DL- jr,sr,sr LB- jr,sr,sr,soph CB- jr, jr,jr,jr again all with lots of experence. And each of these positions will be 2 deep by then. I know I'll get that I'm crazy or I'm wearing my blue goggles but I really think we are just 2 years away so give it time and keep the support for this program. A coaching change does nothing but restart the whole process and in 2-3 years we are back here complaining about another 2-10, 4-8, 5-7 season. GO CATS!
2 years away (Kinda Long)
- Thread starter catfan2525
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When did we overachieve? Pulling out a last minute win over ULL to start the year who finished 4-8. Was it our OT comeback win to FCS foe EKU who finished the year 6-5.......Perhaps it was our stellar conference road win against South Carolina which seemed impressive at the time (well the first half anyway) but they ended up being so bad their coach quit. Only argument there is about overachieving was the Florida game which most fans picked this year to be the year to end the streak which of course didn't happen.
Talent and depth alone is not the issue when you struggle to beat a less than average FCS team. Stoops will still be here 2 years from now so we will see how that season goes. 6-6 will not cut it two years from now and 7-5 may not either if we continue to look like a side show of the Barnum and Bailey Ringling Circus.
Talent and depth alone is not the issue when you struggle to beat a less than average FCS team. Stoops will still be here 2 years from now so we will see how that season goes. 6-6 will not cut it two years from now and 7-5 may not either if we continue to look like a side show of the Barnum and Bailey Ringling Circus.
If we don't get to a bowl next season, then he's gone. This is his make or break year. And the only way we succeed next year. Is with some changes on the staff. Which isn't happening because stoops is too loyal to fire someone he hired. Zero experience from your HC, OC, and DC is not going to ever win in the SEC no matter what especially Kentucky. You can thank stoops for putting this staff together. Think about it, Dawson has never called a play in college his entire life til coming to Kentucky. Really now? His very first play calling job is an SEC job? Shouldn't he be starting out at like Grambling Sate or somewhere prove what he can do then work his way up to like Central Florida, and if he becomes very very good there then he maybe gets an opportunity to call plays in the SEC? Nope stoops said eff that, you ain't gotta prove anything man, come to Kentucky and call plays in the SEC for me. How does that sound to you Mr. Shannon Dawson?
It shows every Saturday during the fall that he has no experience and he has no idea of what the concept of situational play calling is. I've never seen play calling so predictable and inept in my entire life and this includes the Joker era. Joker never ran the ball out of the shotgun from the half yard line 3 straight plays ever. And on defense, which albeit is a lot more simple to call plays on that side of the ball, is also being ran by a man who's never called plays at the college level til he came here to Kentucky.
We also have a coach who has never been a head coach. The recruits we are getting are great, I'll say that much. Let him recruit one more class, replace him (I'm sure some of that talent will follow suit and leave when he does but I'm also sure a lot will stay), and see what the next staff can do with them. Some good can come from this. But as long as stoops is here with this staff that he'll never get rid of. 6-6 is our ceiling, at best 7-5 maybe one year on a season where we get a couple lucky bounces. We'd probably have to give this staff I'd say at least around 8 more seasons to reach that point. Next year though is likely going to be 5-7 again, maybe 4-8. And at that point, he's gotta go. 5-7 isn't good enough to keep a job. And the year after if he stayed I'd also expect another 5-7 season at best. Honestly I don't think he'll ever get to 6-6 no matter how many years we give him. And definitely very unlikely he ever gets to 7-5.
It shows every Saturday during the fall that he has no experience and he has no idea of what the concept of situational play calling is. I've never seen play calling so predictable and inept in my entire life and this includes the Joker era. Joker never ran the ball out of the shotgun from the half yard line 3 straight plays ever. And on defense, which albeit is a lot more simple to call plays on that side of the ball, is also being ran by a man who's never called plays at the college level til he came here to Kentucky.
We also have a coach who has never been a head coach. The recruits we are getting are great, I'll say that much. Let him recruit one more class, replace him (I'm sure some of that talent will follow suit and leave when he does but I'm also sure a lot will stay), and see what the next staff can do with them. Some good can come from this. But as long as stoops is here with this staff that he'll never get rid of. 6-6 is our ceiling, at best 7-5 maybe one year on a season where we get a couple lucky bounces. We'd probably have to give this staff I'd say at least around 8 more seasons to reach that point. Next year though is likely going to be 5-7 again, maybe 4-8. And at that point, he's gotta go. 5-7 isn't good enough to keep a job. And the year after if he stayed I'd also expect another 5-7 season at best. Honestly I don't think he'll ever get to 6-6 no matter how many years we give him. And definitely very unlikely he ever gets to 7-5.
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To hard to read without paragraphs.................................pass
You'll see. He will get next season to see of he fails and then one more season as the decision making year. Mitch has already paid him. He'll be here, at least, two more seasons. Bank on it.
Assuming Dawson didn't call the plays at WVU, it still isn't like he doesn't have a history of running an offense...
2014 West Virginia Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks Liberty Bowl
2013 West Virginia Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks --
2012 West Virginia Offensive Coordinator/Receivers Pinstripe Bowl
2011 West Virginia Inside Receivers Big East Co-Champions/Orange Bowl
2010 Stephen F. Austin Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks Southland Champions/FCS Playoffs
2009 Stephen F. Austin Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks Southland Co-Champions/FCS Playoffs
2008 Stephen F. Austin Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks -
2007 Millsaps Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks SCAC Co-Champions
2006 Millsaps Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks SCAC Champions/NCAA Division III Playoffs
Dawson sucks but he did call the plays at Stephen F Austin, not that it matters.
First time calling plays at a legit division 1 school. He did not call plays at WVU. I don't care if he called plays 6 years ago for Sister Anne's school for the blind. It's not the same as major division one football let alone the SEC. It's a completely different ballgame. It's something he has never done before.
I have a friend that used to call plays for Henry Clay. Maybe UK should give him a call he's probably qualified by Stoops standards.
Stoops WILL get 2 more years unless the wheels completely fall off next year. He has made plenty of mistakes and Dawson is a very questionable play caller...but these "fire Stoops" fans crack me up.
Who exactly would you expect to come in and do better from top to bottom.....recruiting, building out the facilities, marketing the program, to developing players, to game management? NO ONE in my adult life has recruited anything but a handful of SEC quality players to UK. IT MUST start and end with recruiting if we are going to be successful in the SEC.
Stoops definitely needs to learn from his mistakes..we should have won the Vandy game at the very least this year and could have won Florida, Auburn and UL. But those teams still have more talent then us(Vandy on Defense).
We have 3 RS Seniors on next years roster and only one of those guys starts. AND hardly any Seniors that start either....think about that and then compare it to the other teams in the SEC. The Fire everyone mentality won't get us over the hump. Time to realize that..
He can recruit, but he simply can't coach. EKU, ULL, and Vandy games are the proof. We have way more talent than Vandy btw. We left 17 points on the field that game from horrible coaching decisions. And people keep saying he needs to learn from his mistakes. He made more mistakes than ever before this season, he does need to learn from them. But guess what? He HASNT learned from them. So who's to say he ever will? Time after time he makes the same mistakes over and over again multiple times every game. It's funny how almost everytime we need a time out to save time, he waits 15 seconds just to call the time out. It's hilarious how inept he is. As far as in game adjustments and in game coaching. He's one of the worst in the biz in all of division one football. That's why he needs to be gone.
The ONLY thing he is good at, is recruiting, but player development and coaching ability has been horrendous and that's putting it nicely. He CAN recruit, but what has he done on the field that shows you he's a good coach? We don't even have a special teams coach for Heavens sake. How stoopid can you be to completely ignore 1/3 of the game? If a coach seriously refuses to think special teams is a part of the game then that's an obvious indicator that he simply sucks at coaching. He can recruit. As far as the good things about stoops, it starts and ends with recruiting, he has nothing else to offer. As I said in my post, there CAN be some good to come from this, let him recruit for one more year, fire him, then hire a good coach that can actually coach the players. This could turn out being a very good situation by the end, but it's not going to be with stoops and his staff at the helm. We have no experience at OC, DC, and HC. We don't even have an STC. That's a formula that equates to a 100% chance of failure in the SEC. Mark my words.
As long as stoops keeps this staff, and since Barnhart told him he doesn't need to make any changes, then best believe stoops isn't going to make any changes, he's too loyal to fire anyone hes hired regardless of how bad they perform. We will never be a factor in the SEC with this staff. Mark those words down. One constant since stoops has been here, he doesn't adjust, he doesn't make changes, very conservative play not to lose philosophy. We will never ever ever be factor in the SEC with this staff. Every staff in this conference has already, and will continue to coach circles around ours. There's way more to the game than recruiting. You can't just throw 11 players on each side of the ball and expect them to win because they were higher rated recruits. You actually have to develop them, you actually have to be able to coach.
You either have it or you don't, stoops doesn't have it. He's a nervous wreck on the sidelines every single game. Our team sees that, and trust me it has a huge negative impact on the team to have a coaching yelling and making angry faces 3 and a hours straight. It causes the team to play tight and nervous when a coach is throwing a temper tantrum every second of every game. A coach needs to have a calm demeanor at least sometimes so the team can see that the coach isn't worried and in return the players don't worry so much about making a mistake and they don't play so tight and nervous. They instead play loose because they're not over thinking the game, they're not thinking at all, they're playing the game they love using their instincts. Those are results you get when a coach knows how to keep his composure. Stanfords coach is a great example of this, he keeps his calm at all times, in return so does his team, and you can tell that it leads to much better execution.
You can tell by how he handles himself on the sidelines that he's in way over his head. It is very comparable to Billy G as far as coaching goes. Not comparing them as people stoops does have a million times more character than Billy G. But they were both nervous wrecks every game. And that's never going to change that's just his coaching style it's the only way he knows. In that sense they're comparable. They both are also well below mediocre as far as coaching ability goes. Stoops is not going to get us over the hump. Time to realize that.
Quite a rant. Where are you from?
I expect our young but talented players to play a LOT better next year, and the improvement in the OL could be simply amazing over the next couple of years.
And no, we are not that far ahead of Vandy in talent yet, in fact I have serious doubts that we are, and most of ours is young. The rest of the SEC is still out of sight when you consider the experienced talent even after the ONE great class (for us) in 14.
You sound like the fans that expected Joker to win his first year in the SEC when he had TWO (Junior College) four stars playing and seven of the eight SEC teams we played AVERAGED 38 four star commits the previous four years------excluding Vandy of course, BUT including the two Misses.
Really amazing that we beat top ten USC and a hall of fame coach that year that had 39 four star commits the previous four years PLUS a five star. Maybe even more amazing that we only lost to Cam and the National Champions by three points, 39 to 36.
We have a very good class coming in again (for us, again) why try to discourage them if you are a fan?
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I'll bet Stoops will get longer than 2 years, because Barnhart doesn't give a sh@t what the average fan thinks. Plus and most importantly he has the backing of the president, caliputo or however you spell it. To address the OP, please tell me what you have seen of Stoops that makes you think he can coach? Also, just for the sake of argument, if Marrow left tomorrow would you still be all end with Stoops? All I hear is how great a recruiter Stoop has been, he better be because he sure in the hell can't coach.
Money talks. You can just about get any great coach you want almost if you pay them enough. Don't think it's that hard of a sell to be honest. Not that bad of s job of the money is right. I'd take brohm from wku over stoops everyday to be honest
As I previously stated. You can recruit as well as you want, doesn't mean you can just throw them out there and win games. Stoops and his staff don't have the experience and ability to get it done. As I said he's done a great job recruiting. Not denying that fact. Has he done anything noteworthy besides recruiting? What has he done on the field that has you all so convinced? Maybe you all are convinced, but I just simply am not. I question how much respect he has amongst the team, not saying that they don't respect him but with the play of Dorian baker and some others it makes you question it. I also think good is going to come from this. It's awesome these recruits he's bringing in! But I just feel like we need someone else to coach these recruits! Which could in turn be the turning point for our program! I think that's when Kentucky finally succeeds in football. 1 more year of recruiting for stoops, new coach, follow the same recruitment pipelines and try to continue that momentum, and let's get a damn coach that can develop these guys.
Say what you want about stoops, we have zero experience at the OC, DC, and HC. I've said it and I'll say it time and time again. It's a perfect recipe for failure. It's not going to work, you can be sold on stoops all you want and convince yourself he's the man all you want. Doesn't make it true. I'm still going to argue that he is as bad of an in game coach the game has to offer and I have yet to see him learn from a mistake after 3 years. We don't don't even have an STC! That on its own tells me all I need to know, he's in way over his head. If you are a coach and completely disregard special teams. Then you're going to fail no matter how well you recruit!! It's attention to detail things like that that make a difference. He simply wants to pretend that special teams isn't a part of the game. And that's enough of a reason for me to know that he's in way over his head. Hiring people with zero experience at the OC and DC positions is just reassurance of how bad of a coach he is, it's the icing on the cake. Too many simple things like that where he fails that give you no choice but to believe he's in way over his head and will never succeed as a head coach.
Didn't proof read way too tired sorry if there are errors
I'm not sure this staff really deserves 2 more years. I'm also not sure how they overachieved. Sure, there were those of us in the preseason that overestimated the ol' ball coach and who underestimated Florida's defense. Some people (myself included thought UK would probably lose to Mizzou), but also thought that UK would beat Vandy and U of L. I fully expected the team to get to 6-6 and I thought I was being a pessimist.
UK didn't start off well in the beginning of the season; just like last season the schedule was set up with the easier teams at the front. In my opinion, last year's result wasn't surprising. This year's team, however, definitely underachieved. The staff should get one more year. Dawson should probably get one more year, despite the fact that he is having to learn on the job. Stoops should be given one more year despite his sometimes inexcusably stupid decisions (including who he hires on his staff) and if next year's team doesn't get to 6-6, he should be gone.
If UK had been serious about winning when they fired Joker, they would have hired somebody with a proven track record as a head coach, not a coordinator. The SEC really isn't a great place for on-the-job training.
UK didn't start off well in the beginning of the season; just like last season the schedule was set up with the easier teams at the front. In my opinion, last year's result wasn't surprising. This year's team, however, definitely underachieved. The staff should get one more year. Dawson should probably get one more year, despite the fact that he is having to learn on the job. Stoops should be given one more year despite his sometimes inexcusably stupid decisions (including who he hires on his staff) and if next year's team doesn't get to 6-6, he should be gone.
If UK had been serious about winning when they fired Joker, they would have hired somebody with a proven track record as a head coach, not a coordinator. The SEC really isn't a great place for on-the-job training.
Hindsight is beautiful.
According to one poster we should have hired the OC from UAB in 2012, instead of the highly successful DC from FSU, the OC that graduated from Trinity and UL and probably hates our guts. After all, he probably could have given us a pipeline to Trinity high school, not sure if he had any connections to Ohio or not or if he could coach DBs.
Whatever, the fact is we hired Stoops, and he has done a great job of upgrading our talent, both by the rating systems AND including lightly regarded recruits that have also shown a lot of potential.
And the FACT is he WILL be here next year and probably the year after, and hopefully for a long time after that because he IS solving UK's biggest problem for decades, TALENT. And IF he doesn't win one game next year we will be better off IMO because while he will be fired (about the only way it happens with mitch in charge) we will have the raw talent to attract a real coach, and will leave the blueprint and proof that UK can recruit top talent.
They ARE our coaches, with possibly some changes by Stoops, and will be whether some of you like it or not, and all your griping and badmouthing can possibly do is discourage some of our recruits. And probably some coaching prospects that won't want to come to a school that doesn't give a coach enough time to bring in his own talent AND to weed out some of the coaches that don't hack it------IF that is what he decides to do. I trust that will be his decision, not some of our fans. Lots of factors involved there, whether you can get a competent replacement that you want, how it affects recruiting (the OL coach and our four star commits comes to mind), whether they are also improving or not, etc etc.
Thanks a lot to some of the overboard critics (lots to criticize without going overboard), some of our fans are our trolls biggest allies-------if they aren't trolls also.
^ This. Players should not attempt to run a team, but just as importantly, fans should not attempt to run a program.
Stoops made a couple of horrible on field decisions. The 4th and 1fly pattern at Vandy was horrific. And the inability to get the DEnd to play the QB verses UL was infuriating.
The Dawson hire was also a bad hire in hindsite. And I think the decision to stick with Towles for 22 starts without giving significant time to the backup was a terrible decision. There has definitely been painful on the job training.
BUT to say Stoops can't coach and develop players is a ridiculous statement. He's had successful defenses every place he's been and put players in the pros every place he's been.
When he has a full five years to have all his players in the program you can evaluate if his decision making has improved and determine if you keep him. This isn't Bama, Florida or Georgia. Continuity matters.
Very true. However, as stated before, there is no truth to posters stating there was a divided team or players attempting to run the program. As for negative posters ours pale in comparison to our fellow SEC schools whose devotion to football often borders on irrational and mindless fantasy.
Vandy had much more mature talent on defense than us last year and it wasn't even that close. Go compare offer sheets. James Franklin was a stud recruiter. He left Vandy with a significant number of defensive players with offers from top SEC schools. Just a fact.
But we still shouldn't have lost that game
I don't see any proof that shows he can develop players as a head coach here, many players have underachieved, very few have overachieved. So to say it's a ridiculous statement that he can't develop players. I just don't see much truth to that. Yes his defensive players at FSU were damn good. But they were also some of the highest rated players out of high school. Now that we're getting these higher rates players, let's see how much they develop. So far it hasn't happened. Also just saw a tidbit on kentuckysportsradio of how much our assistants get paid. Truly pathetic that we aren't making any changes on the staff.
Lol. I could be wrong on this, but wasn't vandy the only team younger than us in the SEC? Vandy doesn't have more talent, they had a better defense I agree. But they averaged 10 PPG on offense, a truly pathetic stat, and an even more pathetic loss. You can tell by watching that game that we were unquestionably the more talented team. We lost that game because they have better coaches. Our coaches left 17 points on the field. We outplayed them, they out coached us. That's why they won, because our coaching staff is inept.
So this is the guy with the inside information who knows for a fact there wasn't a divide on the team. Who are your sources? I can name mine that claim there was a divide, let's hear yours. And if it's a coach, then please man, they would never admit there was a divide if there was.
OK, since you don't seem to care what impression your posts give our recruits about our coaches and whether their coach will be here or not go ahead and name your "sources".
If recruits pick schools based upon what the idiot fans, including me, say on a internet board, we probably don't want them.
If I was lying about the staff it would be one thing. But it's not like I'm not telling the truth, you're tellin me I need to suger coat everything I'm saying just in case a recruit sees it? Is this the Kentucky football propaganda board? My opinion is based on what I see on the field and the horrible hires stoops has made off the field. No experience at OC (shows every single game as he is the most predictable play caller there ever was), No experience at DC, and no experience at HC. The people on the pregame show today were guessing changes will be made on the staff, they said they have to be made considering the season we had. And they said if there are no changes made the stadium will be half empty next year, and I seriously don't think stoops has it in him to fire someone he hired, I just don't see it happening and what a mistake it will be to return the entire staff from last season. Which to me will be the start of the end. You might get away with that kind of coaching inexperience in the sunbelt, this is the SEC though.
I don't care if we're 12th or 13th every year in the SEC recruiting rankings. We are not going to win in the SEC with that kind of inexperience across the board with our coaching staff. It just won't happen. Those are my thoughts that I'll agree I've been having to repeat way too often. But I feel like I'm just being logical, this is what I see. I'm not going to pretend its some fairy land and say things like 'I think this staff is a truly competent bunch yall!!' When my opinion is quite the opposite. I wish they were good coaches, I hope we have a great season next year. Not happening with the entire staff returning, mostly Dawson. It just won't happen. The vandy game did it in for me. Running at the one out of the shot gun 3 straight plays and coming out with no points? Letting your inept qb audible into a passing play at the one? Calling a timeout frantically because we're about to get a delay of a game on a punt then acting as if you just did something great? Then in the same game take a delay of game on a field goal then right after miss said field goal by inches? ALL IN ONE GAME!!! That was the worst coaching performance I have ever seen. And that kind of stuff happened the entire season. No reason we should've lost that game and not gone bowling.
we'll never win the SEC East because we will never have the talent to beat UT, Georgia, and Florida in the same year.... lets face it we'll have to have a really good coach to win here with the talent UK gets. I believe. STOOPS
Anyone would have to be pretty irrational to think recruits pick a school based solely on the fan base. You would also have to be pretty irrational to think that it has NO effect on a huge decision these recruits are making. it is just a piece of the puzzle, and maybe a bigger piece is having most of a fan base calling for the head of the coach you want to play for. And probably the easiest way to get some idea of the pulse of a fan base is to read the Rivals comments, probably the easiest to access and the most popular.
As I have stated many times, if I was the parent of a recruit with offers I would be checking out all of the boards of schools where he was offered.
Actually I think UK comes in pretty high in the ratings for the non-football things, State U, nice campus, large fan base, good S&C program, good tutoring, good choice of studies, not a school that doesn't care what happens to you as long as you win, playing in the best conference, location for many recruits, the list is long.
To say the venom that is out of control on this board has no effect at all just isn't accurate IMO, I think I remember Kash asking for a little moderation.