Haines has looked incredible this weekend. This is gonna be a beat down.
I fully agree with the travesty of the call getting overturned. But a half nelson is also a pinning combination, if a wrestler gets a takedown in sudden victory and has a half in, the match doesn't continue just because he has a half in. Same concept, if Duke would have rolled him through and immediately put him into criteria, the match would have continued. Either way, its over now and like I said, I fully agree it was a travesty that the call was overturned.Yes. But it was still a pinning/near fall hold by PJ. Either way, the real travesty was the call getting overturned.
It was the ref who made the call stopping the action.It wasnt the mat ref. He called the 3. It was the jack wagon reviewing the call.
You dont call a take down until you know it's 3 , than its up penn st to throw the brick.@F7Mello -- again, my Quote function is pretty balky today.
To answer your question:
in SV, you whistle to end the match when you think points are scored. The ONLY exception (in both HS and college) is if he defensive wrestler is in near-fall criteria (i.e., taken directly to their back). You then let it play out, so as not to disadvantage the offensive wrestler's team from possibly picking up bonus points. In that situation, once the defensive wrestler is out of near-fall criteria, then you end the match.
In the Duke match, the ref thought Duke had the TD, but Robideau was not in near-fall criteria when he made that decision/made the call, so it would have been a mistake to allow the match to continue
Remember when that awful ref cost Duke a chance at the national title?
I’m sorry, but that doesn’t fly in this situation. You can’t stop that action then reverse your call. That’s called I effed up and cost the offense wrestler in that situation the match.@F7Mello -- again, my Quote function is pretty balky today.
To answer your question:
in SV, you whistle to end the match when you think points are scored. The ONLY exception (in both HS and college) is if he defensive wrestler is in near-fall criteria (i.e., taken directly to their back). You then let it play out, so as not to disadvantage the offensive wrestler's team from possibly picking up bonus points. In that situation, once the defensive wrestler is out of near-fall criteria, then you end the match.
In the Duke match, the ref thought Duke had the TD, but Robideau was not in near-fall criteria when he made that decision/made the call, so it would have been a mistake to allow the match to continue
yup. If there's any doubt, you let it play out. replay can undo stuff, but it can't fix early calls. The NFL gets it with turnovers....You dont call a take down until you know it's 3 , than its up penn st to throw the brick.
But he did know it was three. Duke accomplished the same control position that’s been a takedown for a long time. Cradle, broken down to the hip. The review official inserted a different definition of reaction time. This is on the booth, not the mat guy.You dont call a take down until you know it's 3 , than its up penn st to throw the brick.
I'm a lurker and not a poster but this is an incorrect take until the nonsense this year. What is "long enough"? There is no time restriction and PJ made 3 distinct actions (locked up cradle, sat him to his side, exposed his back) before the only reaction from Landon was to work off his back. That isnt a reaction against the TD but to giving up back points. Multiple ref and review screw ups here and there needs to be accountability for people being bad at their jobs.@OhioLion -- the Quote function is not always working for me (too many windows opened, which is taxing the memory).
But to answer your question:
As I wrote, in my quick review I thought it was a TD, but the ref called it really early, and Robideau grabbed a leg just as the TD was whistled.
So it goes back to whether the review panel thought control was established. Duke had a cradle while Robideau had a leg, then Robideau lost the leg for a sec or two, then he got it back. The mat ref probably wishes he hadn't called it so early, though in SV, you are supposed to call it as soon as you think points are scored.
In looking at it again on replay, I'm not all that surprised it was overturned. Control wasn't established long enough. Would Duke have gotten control? We'll never know. Cradles don't generally break locks around the offensive wrestler's leg. If the offensive wrestler can put the defensive wrestler on their back, then the defensive wrestler usually releases the leg lock to try to roll off their back. Certainly not a sure thing, either way.
Once the call is made the match is over. There is nothing at that point to play out. Taylor threw the brick after the action was done.supposed to let that play out anyway
no. by definition, when the match was stopped, it wasn't a takedown. review was right. this is 100% on the ref.But he did know it was three. Duke accomplished the same control position that’s been a takedown for a long time. Cradle, broken down to the hip. The review official inserted a different definition of reaction time. This is on the booth, not the mat guy.
Just said that to a friend I'm about to stop watching because I have no idea what a takedown is anymore.Btw, I'd like to Blame those in the replay booth reviewing the call but since I have no idea what a TD is anymore, how can I question them saying it wasn't a TD.
This is where we are at now fans of the sport ...
How’s the Iowa board now?I had a brief moment of selfishness where I wanted them to, given the Hawkeye boards reaction to Duke getting hosed.
I'm still fuming from Duke's match. What makes it worse is that it took away from me fully enjoying Mitchell's absolute destruction of Alvan. Congrats Mitch.
Same.
TBF - I asked specifically about continuing action. Tom already addressed it and said, yes he thought it was a TD and should not have been overturned. T was being kind to me and explaining the nuance of the OT rulesI’m sorry, but that doesn’t fly in this situation. You can’t stop that action then reverse your call. That’s called I effed up and cost the offense wrestler in that situation the match.
Just watching mat 3 with no commentary, what did he say?Robideau quoting Bo Nickal was annoying
My HS coach used to tell us that if you perfect just one move from neutral, top, and bottom, you’ll win most of your matches. You don’t have to be fancy. Just be really really good in fundamentals and be perfect on simple moves.What I love about Haines is that 90% of what he does is the stuff you teach 1st year wrestlers in the their first two weeks. He just does it so well.
You ref when the hip hits the mat on a nearside cradle it's a takedown immediately been that way forever@F7Mello -- again, my Quote function is pretty balky today.
To answer your question:
in SV, you whistle to end the match when you think points are scored. The ONLY exception (in both HS and college) is if the defensive wrestler is in near-fall criteria (i.e., taken directly to their back). You then let it play out, so as not to disadvantage the offensive wrestler's team from possibly picking up bonus points. In that situation, once the defensive wrestler is out of near-fall criteria, then you end the match.
In the Duke match, the ref thought Duke had the TD, but Robideau was not in near-fall criteria when he made that decision/made the call, so it would have been a mistake to allow the match to continue
HR is all prepared. Mitchell will beat Caliendo 13-4 because he stalled.Tomorrow?![]()
Duke didn't do enough, but also got royally jobbed.