'25 Ironman Tournament (12/12-14) thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Imagine being on the verge of pulling what I assume is a major upset and biting someone lol
Shepherd will be on Mat 6.
Mangano is on Mat 10.
Burnett is getting disinfected.
Mangano is on Mat 10.
Burnett is getting disinfected.
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rule is bite auto disq might be for the rest of the tourney!
I have seen it a few timesa in the Pitts classic the Pa 180 lb bit] the other kid! DISQ
Looked inadvertent to me. I don't know if that matters or not.
Nice to see a ref applying the rules rather than worrying about backlash (like from the crazy Brands Bros if Nelson had been appropriately disqualified)
144 pounds R16- Gavin Mangano TECH Vince Jasinski 15-0 (4:43)
All mats are back after Mangano match. I took a month sub to Flo just to see why all the hate. Now I understand!
144 pounds R16- Clinton Shepherd vs. Matt Dailey (WYSE)
Period 1:
Circling & tying up. Shepherd has a full face mask on. He hits a duck for a quick TD, 3-0, then cuts Dailey, 3-1. Shepherd drops in on an ankle, comes behind & finishes another TD, 6-1, then cuts Dailey again, 6-2. Shepherd drops to a leg & finishes another TD, 9-2. He cuts Dailey again, 9-3. Dailey shoots. Shepherd counters & comes behind for another TD, 12-3. Shepherd has Dailey bellied out now. He locks up a tilt & adds 3 NF, 15-3. The period ends.
Period 2:
Neutral start. I'm not sure who had choice. Dailey presses forward. Shepherd ducks & finishes a final TD for the 18-3 Tech.
Clinton Shepherd TECH Matt Dailey 18-3 (2:19)
Period 1:
Circling & tying up. Shepherd has a full face mask on. He hits a duck for a quick TD, 3-0, then cuts Dailey, 3-1. Shepherd drops in on an ankle, comes behind & finishes another TD, 6-1, then cuts Dailey again, 6-2. Shepherd drops to a leg & finishes another TD, 9-2. He cuts Dailey again, 9-3. Dailey shoots. Shepherd counters & comes behind for another TD, 12-3. Shepherd has Dailey bellied out now. He locks up a tilt & adds 3 NF, 15-3. The period ends.
Period 2:
Neutral start. I'm not sure who had choice. Dailey presses forward. Shepherd ducks & finishes a final TD for the 18-3 Tech.
Clinton Shepherd TECH Matt Dailey 18-3 (2:19)
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Gus Smith is Pat's son and John's nephew
poor kid probably hasn’t eaten since thanksgiving. No wonder he got teched so quickly
165 pounds R16- Jayden James vs. Tyler Harrill (SKUT)
Period 1:
James presses forward, drops to a leg & they go off the screen. TD James, 3-0. He start in neutral & concedes the esdcape, 3-1. James presses forward. Harrill tries an underhook, James counters & gets another TD, 6-1. James cuts Harrill immediately, 6-1. James attacks & gets another TD, 9-2, then catches Harrill on his back & gets the FALL!! Wow, that was fast!
Jayden James FALL Tyler Harrill (0:36)
Period 1:
James presses forward, drops to a leg & they go off the screen. TD James, 3-0. He start in neutral & concedes the esdcape, 3-1. James presses forward. Harrill tries an underhook, James counters & gets another TD, 6-1. James cuts Harrill immediately, 6-1. James attacks & gets another TD, 9-2, then catches Harrill on his back & gets the FALL!! Wow, that was fast!
Jayden James FALL Tyler Harrill (0:36)
Depends on how it's done by the ref. If he touches both hands to the top of the head (usually more behind the head), it's the signal for illegal hold. If he touches one hand to the top of his head, it's the signal for flagrant misconduct. You use the hand/arm that has the wristband color of the wrestler that committed the flagrant misconduct.
It doesn't happen a lot, but it happens enough (speaking as a ref). I seem to average a couple (give or take) a season. If, as a ref, you observe it, you don't have any leeway -- you must call flagrant misconduct, and end the match.
The inadvertent component is where it gets tricky for a ref. With cross faces, rolling around, etc., there are a lot of times where one wrestler's arm is across the opponent's mouth. And if the opponent is breathing heavy, their mouth may be open. In general, inadvertent occurrences would not be flagrant misconduct. You have to see the wrestler make an effort to bite the opponent to call flagrant misconduct. Many times each season, I'll get wrestlers showing me their forearm, to show me a bite. But you can't call anything on that by itself. You have to see the other wrestler make the effort to bite an opponent to call it. I have seen instances where an inadvertent forearm in an open mouth causes a few marks on the skin -- those I don't call as flagrant misconduct. Lastly, while I've never experienced it, I know of refs that have seen wrestlers that bite their own forearm, and then try to show it to the ref and claim they were bitten by the opponent.
What is the procedure if you didn't see it, but it was pretty clear from the bite mark that he did bite down? Not saying this is what happened btw, but it would explain the long discussion and final result.
How do you inadvertently bite someone
I didn't see the scene, so I'm not giving a comment on what exactly took place. However, I will offer this. First, I can't speak to every state, or even every region in a state. In the area I'm from, we're always instructed to NOT have the rule book on us, but to have it somewhere close by (usually, your bag). That's easier to accomplish in a dual than in a tournament, where the refs are generally rotated around the mats. Second, the refs know the rule for biting, and for flagrant misconduct. Third, tournaments like this, where the wrestlers and the refs are from a number of states, bring some issues into play, such as: a) a tournament can have tournament rules for certain situations, which you have to follow, but are not always what you're used to, b) each state follows the NFHS rules, but they can have their own customizations of the rules, c) typically in a tournament, there is a head ref, and they would have to be brought over if there was a major issue on a mat, d) even within states, there can be differences in the customization of rules, as the public schools generally have slightly different rules than the private schools. Fourth, going back to 3A, tournaments often have their own set of rules for appeals. That usually involves getting a few refs involved, as well as the tournament director(s). In short, there is A LOT going on, and sometimes it takes some time to get it right.
So, in response to the comments you made, you don't get to ref at Ironman unless you are really good at your craft, which includes knowing the rules. And every single one of the refs working the tournament has a rule book with them, but none of them would have one in their pocket and it's unlikely that any of them had a rule book near the mat.
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those are tough. You can't call what you didn't see. It's why there are usually two refs on a mat in major tournaments. You can't call locked hands if you didn't see them, even when half the stands and one team's coaches are calling out locked hands. You can't call a pin if you can't determine that it meets criteria. Etc. This doesn't make the refs popular, but it's impossible to always be in perfect position for every possibility. (Though the elite refs are stunningly good at almost never being in a bad position.)
In short, you learn early on that you can only call what you see, and not what you think took place/is taking place.
Tsarni goes down 2-1 to Sumpolec in ride outs!
That’s what is strange about this match. The ref didn’t immediately stop the match but only did so after Burnett started talking to him and showing him his arm. The ref then looked at Burnetts arm and then issued the disqualification. It was really weird how it happened. It didn’t seem like the ref saw it. I could definitely be wrong but how the match went down it didn’t seem like it