We just disagree. No biggie. I happen to find wrestling very athletic and believe those who do it quite well are “great athletes.” An additional disagreement: Even without legs, Anthony Robles is a great athlete in my book.
'25 NWCA All-Star Classic, 11/1, thread
- Thread starter pish69
- Start date
Yeah, I wasn't following Robles not being a great athlete either.
It's bad logic. If you assume that wrestlers are athletes, and if you are a good wrestler you would then be a good athlete.
The way the sport has evolved having a certain level of athleticism is needed now to continue jumping levels. You can see guys who aren't athletes hit a wall and stop jumping levels. Plott comes to mind he was good but never became great because he wasn't a good enough athlete. Where a guy like Hamiti jumped levels because he's very athletic.
If someone can bench a ton of weight, does that make them a great athlete? If so, should being a great athlete help them with bottom wrestling? Asking for a tan friend.
There is only one Messenbrink. Even my personal GOAT Jason Nolf, didn't operate at that level of pace. Creativity and bonus yes, but non-stop transmission devil shooting a dozen times a match? Maybe Bo Bassett is nearly as active just not as talented as Mitch.
Zach had 2 pins and I believe a TF in his 8 matches last year against spotty competition, but he had me pretty psyched about what was to come. Rocco is no doubt a stud, but both before and after he announced last year I wouldn't say he excited me. Can Cael teach an old puppy some new tricks and build his confidence a bit so he let it fly? If anyone can Cael can, and I am sure that's at the heart of why he wanted to come here.
It's really too bad we can't have both
Well stated, agreed.
None of the elite kids are bad athletes by any stretch, but to say Zach appears more athletic than Rocco seems pretty solid to me.
Zain, Nick Lee even Carter to some extent were next level tactitions, with exceptional positioning and skill. They wear you down with killer defense and control you when everything is riding on it.
DT, Ed, Bo and Jason were all both active and Uber athletic IMO. I love all 8 guys mentioned above, pretty equally. I must admit Zain entertained the hell out of me delivering pain, but on balance the more dynamic guys are funner to watch.
Mitch still makes mistakes, do you really think he maneuvers people into the perfect angle for an attack 10 times a match? Nope, he knows he will win most encounters , and the few he loses it's no big deal since he will just go out and get a few more winners. To be honest I worry sometimes he might just get caught with a sloppy shot someday, but as time goes by he never does, and just beats virtually everyone to a pulp. He can and does throttle it back when really needed. That last Calliendo match is an example.
The last decade plus has proven many styles can and do win it all, and part of the greatness of Cael is he generally doesn't try to transform kids into a particular style or type, unlike some other programs that are pretty obvious.
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Anything's possible but Ryder had just done a podcast talking about how great PSU was and that he was all in. All indications are until Rocco was heading this direction, Zach felt PSU was the best place for him to be successful.
If that is truly the case then isn't the logical conclusion that he didn't think he could beat out Rocco for the starting spot, or that he just wanted to be anointed the starter without competition, so he bailed?
Or that he was thinking of leaving for some time and had the podcast previously scheduled. And if you are having doubts about staying or going the last thing you do is go on a podcast and say that you are considering a transfer…
He might have just said the only thing he felt he could say at that time that wouldn’t burn any bridges? Who knows? But it is all water under the bridge now.
Messenbrink's capacity to do work is unmatched, maybe ever at the NCAA level. Probably the best modern comparison is Bassett, but he doesn't seem to have the mobility that Mesenbrink has. Barr also had a few matches this past season when he just broke the will of his opponent with constant work and then overwhelmed them in the final period.
After watching the match, it appears Ryder is much like Hidlay, in regard bull rushing across the mat to drive in an underhook. How did that work out for him against Brooks? I am not equating Rocco with Aaron but am thinking the room, whether including Aaron or not will be able to negate this solely used attack. Time will tell.
Or maybe he was told we aren't recruiting Rocco
. We heard Dean just showed up and no one knew he was coming . Some people believe that and some don't
Ryder was as happy as hell being at Penn state the week before he was Rocco'ed with the news. Not even slight clues there were any doubts there.
What a boring event. Without Penn State being involved, the matchups were just not very compelling this year.
Or maybe he was told we aren't recruiting Rocco
There's a difference between "just showed up and no one knew he was coming" vs a wrestler making the first contact. You're putting up another straw man.
It's very believable that Max and Rocco could've made the first phone call. And when guys like that call, I'd wager that Cael gives the call back vs what happens at your favorite program somewhere to the west...
So would you tell the athlete already on the roster we are bringing this guy in and you guys will battle for the position or tell him we aren't recruiting him?There's a difference between "just showed up and no one knew he was coming" vs a wrestler making the first contact. You're putting up another straw man.
It's very believable that Max and Rocco could've made the first phone call. And when guys like that call, I'd wager that Cael gives the call back vs what happens at your favorite program somewhere to the west...
I know a kid that is on the defending Div 1 team. That person was set to start, but the coach brought in the best person in that position from another country.
They know that's what happens in highly competitive D1 programs. Coaches don't have to tell them, they know Coaches are always recruiting and check the portal every day.
Cael's always had an open door policy for guys that want to come in and compete. You can keep that weak mindset for your friends in Iowa City.
To paraphrase another great coach "Your job is to beat the guy in front of you. My job is to recruit the guy that's going to beat you."
“Coach Brands, this is Masanosuke Ono calling. I’d like to come visit your program. I’m very excited to learn more about Iowa Wrestling!”There's a difference between "just showed up and no one knew he was coming" vs a wrestler making the first contact. You're putting up another straw man.
It's very believable that Max and Rocco could've made the first phone call. And when guys like that call, I'd wager that Cael gives the call back vs what happens at your favorite program somewhere to the west...
“Who? Tanaku Bono? Speak English - I have no idea what you’re saying!”