A few thoughts

[Jake1985]

1. If Roach and Steward return next that duo could be very good. Each still have room for their games to grow but they are stepping up so far. Both of them along with Banchero and Griffin and the fifth starter should be good.
2. It's my opinion, but I am not a fan of Duke not having a true big where they can drop the ball down low to and get some buckets. I think the team is working too hard all of the time to create shots and having that low post guy would beneficial for this team.
3. I know it was expected for Moore to leave after this year but I just don't see it. Hurt, yea.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

#2.....exactly.....it seems so much effort is put into getting a made basket, while I watch other teams just score so easily a foot or 2 from the basket

 

[christophero]

We haven't been able to hit open 3s the last few years. They shoot like Golden State in practice/scrimmages, and then tighten up in games. Not sure why.

 

[sheyduke]

Need to attack more and players need to go to the basket when a three is taken by team members.

Defense is key and I agree we need one of the three bigs to start and let Hurt play the stretch four.

 

[jpw_rivals208321]

Thought 1: could be like Williams - Duhon duo.

Thought 2: Agreed. They working hard to get shots - outside shots at that. How many times last night when the lead was around 6 points and they jacked up 3's and nobody was able to rebound. A big down low may have really helped with that. Instead it was one and done on the offensive end. It seemed like everyone was standing outside the paint watching and then reacting.

Thought 3: Agreed. I wonder if he is somewhat intimidated with K on the sideline - scared to mess up. When K was out he lit it up and seemed to be playing with less pressure. Again just wondering if that has anything to do with it. It could just be a coincidence.

 

[hart2chesson]

Lack of a big in games does hurt us. Last nite we were limited TOO MANY TIMES to ONE SHOT. From the little time I saw Patrick Tape on the floor, he looks to have MORE POLISH to his game than Williams. When Tape returns from injury, I think he needs more PT so we can rebound more effectively. It would also allow for more inside out, and would give us an effective screener from inside. OFC

 

[christophero]

I agree Tape can really help us. Williams will be good but is a year away. Tape was day to day but has been out over a week.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

Okafor, Bagley/Carter, Zion, Carey JR. Never take guys like that for granted, it's so nice to have a big you can dump it down to and get you buckets, makes offense so much easier.
Next year we will have that with Banchero.

 

[Mac9192]

Nothing I can say about the team that hasn't been said. I'm going to throw something else out there, something that's probably not too popular, but oh well. I wonder if the program could stand an assistant that's not a former player of K? They were all solid players, but their coaching principles are all what K has taught. Just my take, but there's nothing wrong with someone "outside the family" in terms of coaching. It seems it's Duke, all Duke, and nothing but Duke in terms of what's taught. Maybe some fresh thoughts wouldn't hurt.

 

[denverexpat]

We have difficulty stringing consecutive positive possessions together so I don't have a lot of confidence we can put a long winning streak together - so I think we end up at the .500 level or 1-2 games above at the best. Not a great year for BB overall or our program I'm afraid. I love the sport so hopefully it rebounds when normalcy returns.

 

[GhostOf301]

Vernon Carey should have stayed another year. There, I said it.

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

Hurt will leave but he will get destroyed in the NBA for the first 3-4 years...he is so weak compared to most of those dudes...but he'll get paid

 

[mo.st.dukie]

I love Roach and Steward, great quickness and scoring ability with the potential to be a lethal combo on both ends of the floor if they come back for another season.

The offense definitely seems to run better when we get the ball to Hurt or someone else in the post. Moving the ball inside-out and getting player movement into and through the lane causes the defense to move and get out of position. The best Duke teams had excellent ball movement and got a lot of paint touches even if it wasn't always through traditional post ups. It seems like our best options for that this year is Hurt in the post-up or dribble drives and cuts to the basket (there was a great cut by Wendell along the baseline last night and Steward fed him for an easy reverse layup).

I suppose I kind of assumed they both would leave just because of the nature of college basketball right now and 5 star players leaving as early as possible. Wendell just isn't there yet, not even close. Hurt, he's got a lot of the offensive skills the NBA loves. He can be a mid to late first rounder and play for a good team that will allow him time to develop over three or four years. I would be surprised if he came back.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

Tape could be pretty important moving forward if he doesn't continue to have back issues. Williams isn't ready. Every time we dump the ball into him I tighten up and expect a turnover or an offensive foul. Coleman has shown some things in small sample sizes. The talent is raw for them both. Not having Tape or Coleman last night did hinder us as far as what we could put out there. Williams just isn't that guy right now and it shows, even in small sample sizes.

Hurt is our best player right now and it's not even close. My hope is Jalen can get it going and soon. He's the most talented player on the team, but we've truly yet to see it. Partially, of course, because of the injury, but he wasn't lighten it up before that either. Moore isn't going anywhere based on what we've seen from him this year so far. Last night our young guards, Roach and Steward, played well for stretches in the 2nd half. But definitely forced too many 3's up, like the rest of the team. I love Baker and Brakefield's D. I'd like to see them both look for their shot more though, especially Baker.

I just think the team as a whole ran out of gas and couldn't complete the comeback. I love Goldwire, but he made poor decisions last night during the second half. His best offense is not to be the guy who takes over games. Those back to back 3's that he and Moore took after we got it to 1 killed the momentum. Both were bad takes. I would've loved to have seen us run it through Hurt, that was working, or see Steward or Roach driving to the basket there.

Overall, I loved the fight this group showed after it looked like they were going to be ran out of Cassell last night. They came out strong to start the second half and really with some better decisions probably could've taken the lead once they got it to one. So that's showing some growth I think. I feel like the team hasn't had enough games, practice time, and time with each other to truly gage how good they can be. I still think they're a tourney team and that they'll surprise some people before year's end. But I guess I am just a homer.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

I love Roach and Steward, great quickness and scoring ability with the potential to be a lethal combo on both ends of the floor if they come back for another season.

The offense definitely seems to run better when we get the ball to Hurt or someone else in the post. Moving the ball inside-out and getting player movement into and through the lane causes the defense to move and get out of position. The best Duke teams had excellent ball movement and got a lot of paint touches even if it wasn't always through traditional post ups. It seems like our best options for that this year is Hurt in the post-up or dribble drives and cuts to the basket (there was a great cut by Wendell along the baseline last night and Steward fed him for an easy reverse layup).

I suppose I kind of assumed they both would leave just because of the nature of college basketball right now and 5 star players leaving as early as possible. Wendell just isn't there yet, not even close. Hurt, he's got a lot of the offensive skills the NBA loves. He can be a mid to late first rounder and play for a good team that will allow him time to develop over three or four years. I would be surprised if he came back.

agree...ball in the paint creates movement and it makes guys make decisions which in turn can create easier open shots

 

[lyonhawk]

Getting Jalen Johnson back should help our inside game and offensive rebounding. 3 guards, Brakefield, and Hurt just aren’t going to get many.
And someone needs to tell Hurt he can’t dribble outside the three point line. Every time he does, it’s a turnover.
We need to cut down on TOs, stop taking bad 3s, make our FTs, and tighten up the D. If Jalen can get back to where he should be and we do those things, we should be fine. Fine this year meaning maybe we get out of the first weekend, but this isn’t a title contending team.

 

[skysdad]

Getting Jalen Johnson back should help our inside game and offensive rebounding. 3 guards, Brakefield, and Hurt just aren’t going to get many.
And someone needs to tell Hurt he can’t dribble outside the three point line. Every time he does, it’s a turnover.
We need to cut down on TOs, stop taking bad 3s, make our FTs, and tighten up the D. If Jalen can get back to where he should be and we do those things, we should be fine. Fine this year meaning maybe we get out of the first weekend, but this isn’t a title contending team.

You make sense on your points. OFC

 

[timritterus]

Anyone else think we should at least try a zone for portions of the game? I mean, I was shocked we didn't switch anything up defensively in the first half or the last 10ish min of the game (other than pressing, which is our only hope it seems).

 

[christophero]

Our switch and then give the other team layups approach has always baffled me. It worked for guys like Battier and Boozer, but watching freshman try to figure it out the last few years has been painful. So yes, we should try some zone.

 

[jamsession3]

Hurt will leave but he will get destroyed in the NBA for the first 3-4 years...he is so weak compared to most of those dudes...but he'll get paid

Hurt has no weight! Actually outside of Roach, Steward and H. Coleman, our team looks no goes to the weight room or eat healthy/hearty meals.

 

[geddoughton23]

Obviously timritterus is correct. Duke needs to play zone. UNC needs to play zone. So many teams need to play zone. I'm amazed that highly regarded recruits have pathetic lateral mobility and no concept of how to play man to man defense. The college 3 is now a difficult shot for most players. Zone is the way to go for most teams. Allow the opponent wide open 19 footers and give special attention to the opponent's best shooter. If the opponent has multiple marksmen, you're doomed regardless of the defense

 

[LouisiAaron]

We just need to pack it in and not play so much pressure defense. Our guys play too many minutes for that. We have no real identity honestly

 

[topps coach]

Imo one of the biggest problems is that we have players playing the toughest part of our schedule with having only played half the games they would normally have at this time.Give them a little time to play together and acclimate to the College game

 

[timo0402]

We have no real identity honestly

I think this sums it up. We have no identity. We can list all the reasons why, many have, but this is it, we have no identity as a team.

 

[jeffrey236]

Our frosh are, overall, strong talents who in the past (pre-OAD) would have played marginally important roles as freshmen, but none of whom would have been the Alpha go-to dog. Sadly, we have no strong upperclassmen who can play that role (as good as Hurt is, he’s still just a sophomore), so our not-ready-for-prime time freshmen are getting a lot of the PT. And getting schooled. Same thing happening to Kentucky. Whether our rookies can make the leap during this season remains to be seen. Clearly the lack of a summer initiation period, constricted practicing sessions and a number of cancelled games is making the task harder. But trying to be objective, this class is not close to being of the ilk we’ve had the last few years. If they could stay for another year or two, they’d probably be a kick-*** team. But that won’t happen.

 

[lyonhawk]

Our frosh are, overall, strong talents who in the past (pre-OAD) would have played marginally important roles as freshmen, but none of whom would have been the Alpha go-to dog. Sadly, we have no strong upperclassmen who can play that role (as good as Hurt is, he’s still just a sophomore), so our not-ready-for-prime time freshmen are getting a lot of the PT. And getting schooled. Same thing happening to Kentucky. Whether our rookies can make the leap during this season remains to be seen. Clearly the lack of a summer initiation period, constricted practicing sessions and a number of cancelled games is making the task harder. But trying to be objective, this class is not close to being of the ilk we’ve had the last few years. If they could stay for another year or two, they’d probably be a kick-*** team. But that won’t happen.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a few people leave who otherwise wouldn’t based on the expected strength of the incoming class.

 

[HuffyJB]

Obviously timritterus is correct. Duke needs to play zone. UNC needs to play zone. So many teams need to play zone. I'm amazed that highly regarded recruits have pathetic lateral mobility and no concept of how to play man to man defense. The college 3 is now a difficult shot for most players. Zone is the way to go for most teams. Allow the opponent wide open 19 footers and give special attention to the opponent's best shooter. If the opponent has multiple marksmen, you're doomed regardless of the defense

I think I've said this on here before, but I went to a coach's clinic several years ago in which Jay Bilas was one of the speakers. He was discussing zone defense, and he talked about how it always surprises him that more college teams don't use it with more frequency. He said he has been to thousands of practices in his role as an analyst, and seen hundreds of offensive sets being implemented, and he said he has never seen a zone offense that is near as effective as even an average man offense.

I would like to see this team give it a look some, not necessarily as their primary a la 2018, but as a change of pace for stretches.

 

[hart2chesson]

I think this sums it up. We have no identity. We can list all the reasons why, many have, but this is it, we have no identity as a team.

Agreed.....As you mention we can list various reasons....To me Tre was the inspiration and backbone last year, giving us true identity as a LEADER. Also Vernon brought his lunch pail everyday, giving us a true inside force vs others.

OFC

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I was yelling at the TV to go zone in the first half Tuesday night, oh well. When Hurt is at the 5 (our best offensive lineup by a mile) I think we should be exclusively zone, we just need to hope our opponent misses from the outside because we aren't stopping anyone in the paint.
The problems I see arising from zone are 2 things: 1. we aren't great offensively, our best offense is getting steals and getting in transition, not gonna get as many steals in zone. 2. Shooting seems much easier in these empty arenas, anyone else notice this?? I worry if we play zone and give up open 3's in an empty arena, it could be a death sentence.

 

[Liftee]

I will disagree about zone. We have guards who should and sometimes are good at pressuring away from the basket and that is the best way to protect weak inside defenders. At least that is what I have heard coach K say in the past when he had weak inside defenders. The fact that our guards have been beaten because they are gambling or not moving their feet well enough, while having enough quickness to avoid that, is another story.

A zone against Va Tech would have been disastrous because they are such good shooters, IMO.

Basically I think our guys can play better man to man defense (as they show at times) and need to do it 40 minutes a game.

 

[christophero]

Keeping it simple we need to beat Pitt. Barring a massive upset this team is not ready to beat Louisville and if we drop to 5 and 5 we're in big trouble.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Keeping it simple we need to beat Pitt. Barring a massive upset this team is not ready to beat Louisville and if we drop to 5 and 5 we're in big trouble.

wish we could get a double header with them 1/18-1/19 or 1/19-1/20

 

[bullettoothtony]

I will disagree about zone. We have guards who should and sometimes are good at pressuring away from the basket and that is the best way to protect weak inside defenders. At least that is what I have heard coach K say in the past when he had weak inside defenders. The fact that our guards have been beaten because they are gambling or not moving their feet well enough, while having enough quickness to avoid that, is another story.

A zone against Va Tech would have been disastrous because they are such good shooters, IMO.

Basically I think our guys can play better man to man defense (as they show at times) and need to do it 40 minutes a game.

I respectfully disagree. I've talked about this so much in the past that I just don't feel like typing it all again but I think our pressure, overplay-passing-lanes defense is anachronistic and ineffective. It may work against inferior teams on occasion but there are so many problems with it that far transcend execution.

We need to utilize a gap defense. Doesn't have to be strict packline like Virginia, but some variation.

 

[Mpm277]

Look, I know what I'm about to say is asinine but...

Pre-OAD Era/Pre-Team USA Coach K would be able to coach both last year's and this year's team better.

 

[timritterus]

I will disagree about zone. We have guards who should and sometimes are good at pressuring away from the basket and that is the best way to protect weak inside defenders. At least that is what I have heard coach K say in the past when he had weak inside defenders. The fact that our guards have been beaten because they are gambling or not moving their feet well enough, while having enough quickness to avoid that, is another story.

A zone against Va Tech would have been disastrous because they are such good shooters, IMO.

Basically I think our guys can play better man to man defense (as they show at times) and need to do it 40 minutes a game.

You may be right, somewhat. But continuing with the same terrible defense when the other team is scoring at will is bananas. We have to try something, at least for stretches of the game.

 

[Kingbluedevil]

Times are different now coaches and players. The players today don't seem to get bothered when a team is beating the brakes off of them. I remember Bobby Hurley didn't take losing well. The same with JJ Reddick as he would be the first player out for warmups before a game. I heard last night after Wake lost to Louisville that Wakes best player came back out after the game to take some shots. They said that had not been seen at Wake in a while and probably due to this high energy coach they have now. I just don't think Coach K in the 90's could have sit quietly watching the players jacking up shots like they were Tuesday night. He would have called timeout and got some attention. The biggest thing is the players are just not playing hard. Duke has always prided themselves on playing harder on defense than the opponent but it has changed in this one and done era.

 

[hart2chesson]

Just wondering with Jalen hopefully getting into game shape sooner than later about his positioning to get the ball in his hands more. 2 months ago Evan Kolin wrote this in Duke Chronicle: Although Jalen is listed as a forward, he has the "ball handling skills and court vision to play the point." Could such a move benefit Matt, and lift such a heavy scoring burden off him? Perhaps this would get another scorer on the floor too? Duke may see less 5 on 4 defenses? Thanks guys, I am certainly no expert, but just wanted your collective thoughts...OFC

 

[durhamgolfer]

Times are different now coaches and players. The players today don't seem to get bothered when a team is beating the brakes off of them. I remember Bobby Hurley didn't take losing well. The same with JJ Reddick as he would be the first player out for warmups before a game. I heard last night after Wake lost to Louisville that Wakes best player came back out after the game to take some shots. They said that had not been seen at Wake in a while and probably due to this high energy coach they have now. I just don't think Coach K in the 90's could have sit quietly watching the players jacking up shots like they were Tuesday night. He would have called timeout and got some attention. The biggest thing is the players are just not playing hard. Duke has always prided themselves on playing harder on defense than the opponent but it has changed in this one and done era.

I think that may be a tad bit unfair. We all are criticizing Goldwire for questionable shot selection but part of that is that he is trying to put the team on his back when they are down because he hates to lose so much. Roach and Steward are both pretty slim but they are going right to the rim on both sides either to try to score or to get vital rebounds. I think the bigger problem is that they teams are so young they don't quite know what to do when they are down. As far as K calling timeouts, I feel like that has been a criticism for a number of years. This team had so little time together and so little in-game experience that I actually think he is stymied as to what to do. I do feel like each game someone has gotten better and, if we can just keep playing games, it would not surprise me if this team is a team that can do some damage in May madness.

 

[christophero]

I think the point is Goldwire should be a 25 minute per game leader/specialist/ not a 30 minute go to guy which he has had to be as the young guys are not consistently there yet. I have been wishing for a more experienced team so perhaps we just need to take our lumps this year so we can be better next year. But if our backcourt leaves after this year I will lose faith in the system. Hopefully at least one comes back. Because if Roach really comes on by the end of the year he could be one and done. And I've already seen Steward as early 2nd round on a mock draft.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I think the point is Goldwire should be a 25 minute per game leader/specialist/ not a 30 minute go to guy which he has had to be as the young guys are not consistently there yet. I have been wishing for a more experienced team so perhaps we just need to take our lumps this year so we can be better next year. But if our backcourt leaves after this year I will lose faith in the system. Hopefully at least one comes back. Because if Roach really comes on by the end of the year he could be one and done. And I've already seen Steward as early 2nd round on a mock draft.

Agreed. IF we were to lose Roach and Steward, well, that just further cements that college basketball is dead and why does anyone need to follow it so closely if the players don't even want to be there. However, I think Roach is back for sure. He's small, seems like the perfect college PG who stays a few years and wins tons of games, then develops into an NBA backup. I think K knew this when he recruited him, we turned down Caleb Love (UNC commit who wanted to come to Duke), who might be slightly better this year, but would have been a OAD had he come to Duke.

Steward I would predict is gone, but I don't say that with confidence, I have seen him as a 1st rounder on some boards, and nowhere to be seen on some boards. He can ball, he can score, and he will be able to score eventually in the NBA.

As for this year and Goldwire, it is what it is. This really reminds me of the Tyler Thornton senior year, there's a ceiling to how good we can be offensively when a guy like Goldwire/Thornton are on the court for 30+ minutes, but what else should K do? We need Goldwires defense. I feel like Goldwire was in the PERFECT role the past few years backing up/playing alongside a stud like Tre Jones. Some games we would need Goldwire for 15 minutes, some games 30. This year unfortunately we just don't got the horses.