ActBlue hearing

[DvlDog4WVU]

To target you for criminal investigation they have to get a warrant and they need probable cause of a crime to do that. So if you are working with a someone overseas planning to blow up a church or school here you gave up your Constitutional Rights to privacy at that point. If you want some of the legal part of it rewritten that's understandable. But you are going to get people killed by Terrorist Sympathizers getting rid of it completely.. When that happens you can thank the Democrats, Thomas Massie and the other Republicans that joined them. I will say one more time. It would be better to punish those that abuse it.

The problem is, as Americans, we’re guaranteed (it’s a strong word) a right to privacy. FISA can be triggered on anyone communicating with a foreign entity. Anyone. The probable cause bar is so low people using VoIP to bypass long distance charges but for legitimate business purposes with international entities get wrapped up in it all the time. There are instances of 2 Americans, 1 deployed downrange, and 1 stateside getting surveilled. There are instances of Govt contractors communicating with foreign defense businesses getting wrapped up in FISA.

It’s like 90/10 the irrelevant and overstepped to the legitimate. And the reason why it’s so outsized is because the bar is so low. It’s BS.

 

[Gunny46]

The problem is, as Americans, we’re guaranteed (it’s a strong word) a right to privacy. FISA can be triggered on anyone communicating with a foreign entity. Anyone. The probable cause bar is so low people using VoIP to bypass long distance charges but for legitimate business purposes with international entities get wrapped up in it all the time. There are instances of 2 Americans, 1 deployed downrange, and 1 stateside getting surveilled. There are instances of Govt contractors communicating with foreign defense businesses getting wrapped up in FISA.

It’s like 90/10 the irrelevant and overstepped to the legitimate. And the reason why it’s so outsized is because the bar is so low. It’s BS.

You are guaranteed the Second Amendment unless use a gun to commit a crime or you are on the internet saying you are going to shoot up a school. At that point you are going to be under investigation for violating the law. Not sure why you are having such a hard time with this? Charge those that violate the process. Other than that don't be online with a foreign terrorist group planning an attack on Americans. It's an important tool unless you cut the WWW. Since that's not going to happen we they need to spy on foreigners and anyone breaking the law. If you are a citizen they should go through the warrant process. That should be supervised better.


The Democrats just want it shut down now because they are rooting for something bad to happen.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

You are guaranteed the Second Amendment unless use a gun to commit a crime or you are on the internet saying you are going to shoot up a school. At that point you are going to be under investigation for violating the law. Not sure why you are having such a hard time with this? Charge those that violate the process. Other than that don't be online with a foreign terrorist group planning an attack on Americans. It's an important tool unless you cut the WWW. Since that's not going to happen we they need to spy on foreigners and anyone breaking the law. If you are a citizen they should go through the warrant process. That should be supervised better.


The Democrats just want it shut down now because they are rooting for something bad to happen.

I agree with the latter. But candidly, I don’t subscribe to sacrificing my freedoms for broader security. When they can clean up FISA to guarantee a high bar to where they can 100% guarantee a righteous act, then I’ll change my opinion. Until then, it’s an egregious abuse of power that violates the rights of innocent Americans on a daily basis. Kind of like the old saying with prison and the courts, better 100 guilty men be set free than 1 innocent man be sent to prison. I agree with that.

 

[Gunny46]

I agree with the latter. But candidly, I don’t subscribe to sacrificing my freedoms for broader security. When they can clean up FISA to guarantee a high bar to where they can 100% guarantee a righteous act, then I’ll change my opinion. Until then, it’s an egregious abuse of power that violates the rights of innocent Americans on a daily basis. Kind of like the old saying with prison and the courts, better 100 guilty men be set free than 1 innocent man be sent to prison. I agree with that.

People are always going to move the goal post. You are being spied on by every country and tech company that exist. It's a cool talking point until something really tragic happens. Then the mob wants answers on how it happened. Like I have said numerous times. It's to spy on foreigners. If you are a citizen they have to get a warrant and present it to a judge. The samething all Law Enforcement has to do. That should be supervised and anyone breaking the law should be indicted. As in you have a right to privacy unless you are breaking the law.

 

[Gunny46]

Actblue working with foreign countries to raise money and using unknowning victims to funnel it is illegal. I hope FISA caught them.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Actblue working with foreign countries to raise money and using unknowning victims to funnel it is illegal. I hope FISA caught them.

For the very few legitimate ones, it’s outsized by 1000s or 100s of thousands that aren’t.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

People are always going to move the goal post. You are being spied on by every country and tech company that exist. It's a cool talking point until something really tragic happens. Then the mob wants answers on how it happened. Like I have said numerous times. It's to spy on foreigners. If you are a citizen they have to get a warrant and present it to a judge. The samething all Law Enforcement has to do. That should be supervised and anyone breaking the law should be indicted. As in you have a right to privacy unless you are breaking the law.

International entities are going to do that. My government is precluded from doing it.

 

[Gunny46]

International entities are going to do that. My government is precluded from doing it.

Unless you break the law. So unless you are getting paid by a foreign country you probably should be more concerned about some mental midget with Administration Rights on a message board.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Unless you break the law. So unless you are getting paid by a foreign country you probably should be more concerned about some mental midget with Administration Rights on a message board.

Nope. As established, the Govt abuses it every day far more than they don’t by a lot. Until that changes, I’m more concerned about the Govt. if they can’t fix their problems, they don’t deserve to have the capability. Period.

 

[Gunny46]

Nope. As established, the Govt abuses it every day far more than they don’t by a lot. Until that changes, I’m more concerned about the Govt. if they can’t fix their problems, they don’t deserve to have the capability. Period.

You doing something illegal with a foreign country? If you are they will get a warrant and put surveillance on you. Something you should understand. Other than that people should be more concerned about tech companies. They are spying on everything you are doing. Yet it doesn't stop people from getting on the internet. You could just log off and toss your phone in river.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

You doing something illegal with a foreign country? If you are they will get a warrant and put surveillance on you. Something you should understand. Other than that people should be more concerned about tech companies. They are spying on everything you are doing. Yet it doesn't stop people from getting on the internet. You could just log off and toss your phone in river.

You’re lying in every post. The amount of people swept up and unmasked by FISA that are clean, far far exceeds the number that isn’t.

Who is responsible for holding the Tech companies accountable? The DOJ. They’ve not done anything either, so you can park that red herring with the rest of your weak sauce trying to justify violating constitutionally protected freedoms.

 

[Gunny46]

You’re lying in every post. The amount of people swept up and unmasked by FISA that are clean, far far exceeds the number that isn’t.

Who is responsible for holding the Tech companies accountable? The DOJ. They’ve not done anything either, so you can park that red herring with the rest of your weak sauce trying to justify violating constitutionally protected freedoms.

Getting swept up isn't the same thing as getting unmasked or targeted if you are a US citizen. They have to get a warrant for that and show the Judge probable cause. Has that been abused previously. They did with Trump and that's why there's a Grand Jury doing work right now. If they abuse the process then they should be held accountable. But if you want to continue to act like it isn't a valuable tool to assist in preventing terrorists attacks then you need to stop role playing as a former Marine or anyone involved in any National Security role.

You can also stop pretending you don't understand how Administrative Rights work on a website. There's no privacy on the Internet. Only laws to protect you if the law is broken. Doing away with it only protects criminals and terrorists colluding with foreign countries.

The Military is actually the biggest consumer from the information collected by FISA.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Getting swept up isn't the same thing as getting unmasked or targeted if you are a US citizen. They have to get a warrant for that and show the Judge probable cause. Has that been abused previously. They did with Trump and that's why there's a Grand Jury doing work right now. If they abuse the process then they should be held accountable. But if you want to continue to act like it isn't a valuable tool to assist in preventing terrorists attacks then you need to stop role playing as a former Marine or anyone involved in any National Security role.

You can also stop pretending you don't understand how Administrative Rights work on a website. There's no privacy on the Internet. Only laws to protect you if the law is broken. Doing away with it only protects criminals and terrorists colluding with foreign countries.

The Military is actually the biggest consumer from the information collected by FISA.

You’ve refused to acknowledge that its usage ends up being applied to far more people conducting legal activity than it does illegitimate activity. That’s the problem.

 

[Gunny46]

You’ve refused to acknowledge that its usage ends up being applied to far more people conducting legal activity than it does illegitimate activity. That’s the problem.

I told you numerous times Innocent Americans shouldn't be spied on and I support anyone who violates the process to be held accountable. . We need to spy on our enemies. You should understand that. That's basically Space Forces main mission. If any Intelligence agency witnesses Foreigners colluding with American traitors to commit real crimes they should notify the FBI and DOJ. At that point they must go to the Judge and get a warrant to put that person under surveillance and investigation. If you are legitimately committing crimes you can't hide behind the 4th Amendment. It doesn't say the Government can't search. It says it must have probable cause.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I told you numerous times Innocent Americans shouldn't be spied on and I support anyone who violates the process to be held accountable. . We need to spy on our enemies. You should understand that. That's basically Space Forces main mission. If any Intelligence agency witnesses Foreigners colluding with American traitors to commit real crimes they should notify the FBI and DOJ. At that point they must go to the Judge and get a warrant to put that person under surveillance and investigation. If you are legitimately committing crimes you can't hide behind the 4th Amendment. It doesn't say the Government can't search. It says it must have probable cause.

We’re in alignment on everything here but you acknowledging that the process has been grossly abused and the DOJ has yet to implement meaningful safeguards to ensure it’s not abused, nor has a single person been held accountable for abusing it. Until either or preferably both occur, the power should be suspended. Despite it being a useful tool, you don’t get to continue abusing it without implementing safeguards and reforms to protect the sanctity. It’s pretty simple. The DoJ has a choice, fix it and hold people accountable, or lose it altogether.

 

[Gunny46]

We’re in alignment on everything here but you acknowledging that the process has been grossly abused and the DOJ has yet to implement meaningful safeguards to ensure it’s not abused, nor has a single person been held accountable for abusing it. Until either or preferably both occur, the power should be suspended. Despite it being a useful tool, you don’t get to continue abusing it without implementing safeguards and reforms to protect the sanctity. It’s pretty simple. The DoJ has a choice, fix it and hold people accountable, or lose it altogether.

Stop voting for Democrats and the odds of it being abused go down. Other than that I don’t have sympathy for ActBlue getting caught working with our adversaries. Or anyone else for that matter. If Antifa is working with foreign groups on the Terrorist List. They are going to have surveillance conducted on them. All the DOJ needs to do is show legitimate probable cause to get a warrant. We don't need a warrant to conduct surveillance on foreigners because the Constitution doesn't apply to them. Like I said people should be more concerned about private companies spying on you. Absolutely no guard rails there.

 

[atlkvb]

Interesting debate, tend to agree with Gunny on the actual ability to use the Law, however very sympathetic and agree with Dvldog over ongoing abuses. (We saw that with Trump)

I support continuing the FISA act, however we need more accountability and most importantly severe prosecutions and penalties for violations.

 

[Gunny46]

Interesting debate, tend to agree with Gunny on the actual ability to use the Law, however very sympathetic and agree with Dvldog over ongoing abuses. (We saw that with Trump)

I support continuing the FISA act, however we need more accountability and most importantly severe prosecutions and penalties for violations.

I don't support the abuse of it either. Just the use of it to go after real criminals and terrorists where the evidence is clear. I support holding those accountable that didn't have real probable cause.

 

[atlkvb]

I don't support the abuse of it either. Just the use of it to go after real criminals and terrorists where the evidence is clear. I support holding those accountable that didn't have real probable cause.

Yeah agree here. Hate to think what could have happened if we didn't have it to stop some of the planned mayhem we've uncovered using it! Still too many abuses just as @DvlDog4WVU pointed out, and unchecked without consequences that's just as dangerous!

 

[Gunny46]

Yeah agree here. Hate to think what could have happened if we didn't have it to stop some of the planned mayhem we've uncovered using it! Still too many abuses just as @DvlDog4WVU pointed out, and unchecked without consequences that's just as dangerous!

I don't disagree there has been abuses. Several agencies have abused their authority. Foreign enemies use that to try and convince us to get rid of what is needed to fight against them. Hang the traitors working with them and the problem starts to resolve itself.

 

[roadtrasheer]

Interesting debate, tend to agree with Gunny on the actual ability to use the Law, however very sympathetic and agree with Dvldog over ongoing abuses. (We saw that with Trump)

I support continuing the FISA act, however we need more accountability and most importantly severe prosecutions and penalties for violations.

I see the need of it , but if they cant get it in check and right now pause it until they do . 2nd , prosecute and imprisonment, long terms, those who have abused it .... something about security over liberty is bullcrap ...