From 1939-1943 his team lost 26 games. According to some people on here he should have been fired. Little do we know what the future holds.
Adolph Rupp
- Thread starter CAWOOD FAN
- Start date
Firrreeee Rupp! Dig em up and fire em!
Can you find one person that said a coach should be fired for losing 26 games in 4 years? I would like to see that quote.
Pope has lost 18 in 1.5 years. He’s on track to lose 26 in 2 years.
Did Rupp get the transfer portal, NIL with a 22 million dollar roster and blue blood status at the time to work with?
I think you may be reading too literally into the point being made here. Remember that in those early days, the schedule was much easier than by modern standards. Rupp tried to play a national schedule, which was revolutionary, but had middling results during the cited period:
Overall record (Conf. record)
1939: 16-4 (5-2)
1940: 15-6 (4-4)
1941: 17-8 (8-1)
1942: 19-6 (6-2)
1943: 17-6 (8-1)
Also the Southern Conference aka SEC was very weak back then. I think Cawood Fan’s point was that, in some cases, the results may not be foreseen. There was no indication that Rupp was going to build a dynasty if we view from the lens of 1939-43.
No. He paid players $50 per game instead.
This has to be one of the dumbest threads from the Pope apologists yet.
Was no indication UK would ever become a dynasty either. However, it is now and that standard has be maintained a bit different than in the late 30'sand 40's.
Oh I agree. And I also think it’s worth pointing out that Rupp had two extremely successful seasons prior to that period as well. Point remains that sometimes the future isn’t what we believe it is. Next year, Pope could set college basketball on fire. Or next year, he could be at the unemployment line. We simply don’t know — we can say what it looks like based on what we have seen. But, I got Cawood Fan’s point and I dont think it’s a bad example of why patience can be a virtue in the sport.
I didn’t miss anything.
I know what excuse was trying to be made.
And Rupp never had a team quit in MSG.
How do you see a comparison at all? Pope is on pace to lose the same amount in 2 years. No one would be calling for pope to be fired if he was on the same pace
Yep. I was one of the main folks here calling for his firing back in 1941. Archibald Bird (Darrell's grandfather) gave me and Oscar Combs a 55 year ban on the original forum for expressing our displeasure.
I don’t see it as a comparison between Adolph Rupp and Mark Pope. Or at least I’m not reading that as the point.
I think most are rejecting as false equivalency due to the comparison being Pope-Rupp but I actually think the point of comparison is the 39-43 era vs 44-58 era. There’s a principle conclusion from that comparison that OP applies to Pope’s situation.
You have a good point.
That happened in an era when we played an average of 23.5 games over those four seasons. So it would have been mathematically equivalent to losing ten games per season today.
But that bare math doesn’t tell the whole story. It was an age when our SEC opponents were much weaker comparatively and our SEC dance card was a much bigger percentage of our total schedule.
It’s meaningful both that we didn’t play much top tier competition in that stretch (found our losses elsewhere) and we didn’t do very well against them when we played them. *Against Top 15 competition, we went something like 2 and 6.
*Harder to say exactly who the Top 15 schools were in that era. I used:
- Long Island
- Wisconsin
- Indiana
- Stanford
- Wyoming
- Oregon
- St. John’s
- Ohio State
- Georgetown
- DePaul
- Colorado
- Dartmouth
- Washington
- Illinois
- (Us)
I bet the innerweb was going crazy!!
Adult sites were showing lower arms back then. The really frisky ones showed a little leg
Unfortunately, coming back to reality for a bit, today's world isn't built for patient the way the 1930's and 40's were. Lulz.
In the age of being professional sports, with all the resources available, the idea of "let's wait and see what happens" or "could set the world on fire" aren't realistic. Either do it or next man up.
Pope hasn't set the basketball world on fire in almost 11 years of coaching. I think we can all safely state with confidence it isn't happening anytime soon either.
Comparing Pope and Rupp or the beginning of UK basketball to today is apples and oranges.
No. I don’t think Cawood’s comparison is farfetched.
It would be like saying we would have had Hurley’s head on a platter far before he ever won a title — and I think that’s true. The real conversation is whether or not the Hurley or Rupp situations are analogous to Pope. I can understand folks rejecting that but the point Cawood Fan made is intact, as far as I understood it. People are actually rejecting his argument based on perceived intentions, not the point itself. That’s actually a logical fallacy in its own right — Bulverism.
I think we read his argument differently. It may be me who misunderstood and maybe he literally is comparing Pope and Rupp — but it looks to me more like he’s comparing two Rupp eras and saying no one saw this coming from that. That’s how I read it, but I’m not very bright lol
You’re accepting his argument based on perceived intentions. Hurley took over a losing team and improved every year
Take a look again at his post…
“Adolph Rupp. From 1939-1943 his team lost 26 games. According to some people on here he should have been fired. Little do we know what the future holds.”
^ None of that says anything about Pope, 2026, modern basketball, portal etc. to treat it as a real argument, you’d have to debunk what he said, not what you think he intends. That is a logical fallacy. What I’m doing is agreeing with OP’s argument. His argument is correct to me — whether or not it applies to the current situation it’s own separate discussion.
In the first 5 Rupp years, he was 96-11, including a Helms title and a similar type title in another season. I know we don't count those kinds of titles, but this was before there was an NCAA or a NIT tournie, so There was no chance for a real title. He was down (by his own standards) for a few years afterwards, largely because national player of the year Leroy Edwards unexpectedly turned pro after his sophomore year. If memory serves, as late as 1972 or so, Rupp called Edwards the best center he ever coached.
Come on Jedwar. Pope is clearly having to deal with World War 2 level obstacles like Coach Rupp did haha
Is this supposed to be a recommendation that Pope should remain coach or will become as successful as Rupp?
True, nobody knows what the future holds. But we do have reasonable expectations based on present success, or lack there of.........
Most reasonable fans realize this....Pope is underachieving in all aspects of coaching, while having all the financial and fan support he could have possibly ask for.
Losses, poor play, lack of improvement, lack of recruiting.....Honestly man, what will it take for you to realize, Pope is not the the man for this job.
This is UK. Coach Rupp built this program. Pretty sure he wouldn't enjoy seeing UK fall to mediocrity....
I agree. Coaching legends all have rough periods.
I’m on the side of giving Mark time to figure it out.
Let‘s not forget, that he put together a roster last season very quickly, and was a 3 seed. Also won two tournament games. Let’s not forget this, because it was the first time in 5 years we made it to the second week of the tournament.
It wouldn’t be my first time being unforgivably stupid lol.
This is one of those kind of things like this:
Argument: John Wilkins is 5’11” and players shorter than 6’0” aren’t usually good basketball players.
You can actually grant that John Wilkins is both 5’11” and that players under 6’0” are not usually good basketball players without accepting that John Wilkins, therefore, will not be a good basketball player (which we can assume the intent may be from the argument).
In much the same way, someone can grant that today’s fans would be ready to fire Rupp for his lack of success in the 1939-1943 era without granting that it is analogous to Pope’s situation.
During the war years. The best young men were serving their country.
He seems to be saying we shouldn't be too quick to judge or count out Pope because of Rupp's record in the late 30's and 40's.
However, I think that's just comparing apples and oranges given todays landscape and rules.
Not sure what this even means, but it’s an unfounded and ludicrous post. In 1939 we held no blue blood status and for all we know that was really good for the time.
We are currently a blue blood, we are expected to hold serve as a top program. Do you understand that? I love Mark but some of you have completely lost it with the defense of a guy who’s clearly hurting this program, although unintentionally.
Btw, this isn’t 1939. Do you like UK being elite or no? Mark has done some wildly stupid things here and embarrassed the brand. He cannot recruit. Direct this nonsense toward the man in change hurting the program.
I don’t disagree. But you are arguing what you think his conclusions are rather than his actual point. Not that it ultimately matters either way.
I agree that ultimately it wouldn’t be analogous if that were the conclusion. I believe I understand and agree with OPs point. He’s making an argument about fan impatience. I think it’s true. The argument to me is how much impatience is warranted by a fanbase of our program’s prestige. Impatience isn’t always bad.
We shouldn’t lower expectations because of cals last 5 years. Pope is who he is, this is not some down year this is a normal year for him based on prior seasons
Why don't people like u compare pope to caliparis first 5 seasons? Much more apt comparison. Everyone knows cal sucked the last 4 years but Pope sucks almost as bad and he's 1.5 seasons n.
I'll help u out. 3 final fours, a title and elite 8 first 5 years. Pope better get on it.
There are plenty of other examples.
At least on KSBoard the Nate Oats obsession is at a fever pitch. Not withstanding that Alabama currently only has one more win than we do, he went 16-15 in just first season at Alabama and missed the tournament. Made the Sweet 16 his second year. Then 19-14 his third year for a first round exit. It’s only been the last four years (counting this one) that his team has been consistently good. It took him four year to get there, and when you look at a lot of great coaches it takes time to build a program. Also, I think he’s a jerk and I don’t want him here.
Bruce Pearl posted a losing record three years in a row when he first took the Auburn job.
I’m not thrilled with this season either, but I just don’t see the evidence that a lot of the coaches many are convinced would be better actually are. The grass is always greener, and the internet is a magnet for complaining.
At least on KSBoard the Nate Oats obsession is at a fever pitch. Not withstanding that Alabama currently only has one more win than we do, he went 16-15 in just first season at Alabama and missed the tournament. Made the Sweet 16 his second year. Then 19-14 his third year for a first round exit. It’s only been the last four years (counting this one) that his team has been consistently good. It took him four year to get there, and when you look at a lot of great coaches it takes time to build a program. Also, I think he’s a jerk and I don’t want him here.
Bruce Pearl posted a losing record three years in a row when he first took the Auburn job.
I’m not thrilled with this season either, but I just don’t see the evidence that a lot of the coaches many are convinced would be better actually are. The grass is always greener, and the internet is a magnet for complaining.
I disagree. Pope was really good at BYU. Did you think he was going to win a title at BYU?
Don‘t ever compare coaching a school like BYU to Kentucky. That’s stupid.
Pope was great at BYU. He’ll be great at Kentucky. Just let him figure it out.
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