My nephew is currently in eighth grade. He's a solid student in school (second honor roll) and a nice kid. Well, this past week he surprised us when he said, "I want to go to CTC next year." (I guess they don't call it voc-tech any longer.) Now, when I went to school they used to call it the place where the "troublemakers" and "burnouts" wound up before they dropped out. However, I read up on it and it seems to be a very wise choice if you apply yourself to learning. I did not know that in New York City their master plumbers and master electricans annually outearn Harvard graduates! It seems at least to me that earning a trade is better to some than going to college for four years in a useless major and winding up thousands of dollars in debt afterward. I was wondering what some of you thought or have you been in a similar situation and what was the outcome? Thank you in advance...
AKB: Career and Technical School
- Thread starter WSTLion87
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I do know that post HS many unions have training sites for each trade. The plumbers will have theirs the operating engineers will have their with a varying cranes bull dozers etc. they will bring in instructors for math classes etc. the laborers training site in WV is used by the FBI from time as it is so nice
So there’s that
They let may not to be a plumber all your life but maybe own the plumbing company!!! Good luck.
So there’s that
They let may not to be a plumber all your life but maybe own the plumbing company!!! Good luck.
My son just graduated from welding school. He just was never going to be that 4 year degree kid.
Had multiple job offers before graduation.
Trades are great careers....just need to understand that starting out the wages aren't great. Gotta pay your dues for a few year
My son is currently a freshman at PCT in Williamsport. He enrolled into the Information Technology (Cyber Security) program, but just two weeks ago he said he needed to talk to me. He told me that he really has no passion for that and that he really wants to change his major to Automotive Technology. He has a passion for cars and is routinely doing some sort of modification to his old Dodge Ram pickup. The program there is a 2+2 program, meaning you first complete an Associates degree, where you either stop and join the workforce or you continue on for 2 more years and complete a BS in Automotive Technology. There are internships with this program and as I understand it is certified by several auto manufacturers. My son’s goal is to eventually get into the high performance market. The program has a 100% placement rate.
After doing some research, I found out that graduates from this program typically earn more than graduates from the Cyber Security program.
My son was not a stellar high school student, but very intuitive and smart. He attended private schools and what I laid out in middle and high school tuitions could have covered the cost of two college educations. I always thought that would help get him into a “top tier” college. Joke was on me, I guess.
My final thought on this……In the coming years there will be a high demand for people who can actually “do“ things. Too many kids getting worthless degrees and due to the stigma of trade school, too few kids are becoming electricians and mechanics. Just yesterday I had an electricIan install two outlets, two new wall sconces and two new outdoor lights. I provided all of the fixtures, he provided the wire and other materials. He was here for 5 hours and charged me $1000.00. He was solo, no helper. It was his third job of the day.
After doing some research, I found out that graduates from this program typically earn more than graduates from the Cyber Security program.
My son was not a stellar high school student, but very intuitive and smart. He attended private schools and what I laid out in middle and high school tuitions could have covered the cost of two college educations. I always thought that would help get him into a “top tier” college. Joke was on me, I guess.
My final thought on this……In the coming years there will be a high demand for people who can actually “do“ things. Too many kids getting worthless degrees and due to the stigma of trade school, too few kids are becoming electricians and mechanics. Just yesterday I had an electricIan install two outlets, two new wall sconces and two new outdoor lights. I provided all of the fixtures, he provided the wire and other materials. He was here for 5 hours and charged me $1000.00. He was solo, no helper. It was his third job of the day.
I was a tradesman (HVAC). Do you want to know just how critical jobs in the trades are right now? In NC there are roughly 12,000 licensed hvac people (mechanical license). Of those, 120 are under the age of 55. So you think hiring a tradesman is expensive now? Just wait 5 or 10 years. In NC they are going to have to make the test easier or stop requiring licenses, permits and inspections. We have made people who work with their hands feel second rate. My dad always told my brother and I, “Every man should have a trade”
My nephew attended what is called Four County Career Center here in Archbold. Took 2 years of welding. Not a student for the typical classroom or college. Graduated and was accepted at Hobart and graduated from there.
He started his job at 20 years old. Now making - my guess - $70,000 as a supervisor at Fort Worth Towers.
My wife is an HR Director and fears the labor shortage will worsen as the push continues to be college. As one poster stated, trades and manual laborers are looked down upon.
HS teacher (1978) told us not everyone is cut out for college. Someone has to drive the forklift at Sauder. She would be reprimanded for telling the truth today.
OL
He started his job at 20 years old. Now making - my guess - $70,000 as a supervisor at Fort Worth Towers.
My wife is an HR Director and fears the labor shortage will worsen as the push continues to be college. As one poster stated, trades and manual laborers are looked down upon.
HS teacher (1978) told us not everyone is cut out for college. Someone has to drive the forklift at Sauder. She would be reprimanded for telling the truth today.
OL
CTE programs receive a ton of money. The traditional vo-tech offerings are now much different -- more mainstream, organized and yes better overall. I would recommend that you research (or your nephew's parents) local CTE programs within the public schools and identify his area of interest. There are 16 CTE offerings and many large public schools offer at least half. Engineering is very popular btw. Then, enroll into a CTE strand while still being in core courses (Language arts, history etc.). By 12th grade, he'll know whether he wants to apprentice somewhere or go the 4-year college route. Here in Chapel Hill which is ranked 3rd in the state, the CTE program is becoming much more popular each year which is surprising considering its traditionally a 94 percent 4-year college high school - very smart, college town parents and kids.
Depends on the trade school, so do your research. My brother attended SUN Vo-Tech his Sr year of high school and was able to skip one semester at what is now Penn-Tech for diesel mechanics. He was making more money when he died 15 years ago at the age of 37 than I am now at the age of 49 working for Penn State for 20+ years as staff with a Penn State degree.
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Skilled trades are an excellent path. We need to stop programming our kids into thinking that college is plan A and a trade is plan B. Learn a trade should be the default and if you have a passion for learning you can go to college.
One of my nephews was valedictorian at his high school last year. Got a job renovating houses, liked it so much he withdrew from college after one semester and enrolled at a community college to get an associate degree while he works. He plans to continue renovating houses and other similar work, and has already laid the groundwork for his own business. Not only is he working but his associate degree is fully covered. I think he made a fantastic decision and will be that guy with the biggest and nicest house when he's done. Then I look at another nephew who went for his pharmacy degree and is graduating with six figures of debt. He'll get a great job, but I was already on my second house by the time he graduates. It's definitely a different career path. I think your son is making a great choice.
Kids end up with a the equivalent of a first mortgage. It's ridiculous and a horrible government scam.
Came to the conclusion that ultimately you have to let kids find their own way. As a parent/relative you simply want to insure that the path they want to explore doesn't lead down a rat hole.
I'd simply ask your nephew what sorts of offerings he's interested in. You want to see that he's given it thought and that the school matches up. Keep in mind that he still has to take the traditional academic courses needed to graduate HS. As a rising freshman even if he changes his mind/direction he won't be behind the eight-ball. At the worst, he'll have gotten his elective credits out of the way sooner than most of his classmates
I'd simply ask your nephew what sorts of offerings he's interested in. You want to see that he's given it thought and that the school matches up. Keep in mind that he still has to take the traditional academic courses needed to graduate HS. As a rising freshman even if he changes his mind/direction he won't be behind the eight-ball. At the worst, he'll have gotten his elective credits out of the way sooner than most of his classmates
There are a lot of options with many of these potential career choices. In Lancaster, the program is all of your senior year. Kids should have had the necessary requirements to get into most colleges by that point. So college can still be an option. Thaddeus Stevens College of Tech just secured a deal with Drexel to continue on and secure a bachelors degree. Technical College High School Brandywine Campus offers college credits during and after your HS years.
Today I would not go to college for the sake of going to college. It's too expensive. I believe vocational training is the future. See Penn College in Williamsport and how it's grown from WACC (Williamsport Area Community College) to what it is today.
Out of my group of friends, the person who is most "well off" is an HVAC tradesman, beating out the lawyer.
The guy busted his *** in tech school and went on to do whatever apprenticeship/certification HVAC people get. He bought his first house, renovated it, sold it for a huge profit. He now works for a major national commercial real estate firm doing HVAC for one of their areas. For years he took side jobs on nights/weekends and was able to get enough funds to buy a huge/rural piece of property and renovate his dream house. At 36, the guy now owns multiple rental properties, has no debt, and is really "in" to investing having lucked out and made a **** ton speculating in Gamestop and crypto.
I admire the hell out of the guy because of what he's done. His property is beautiful and includes a gun range, pond, and he can hunt from his back porch. I would never steer my children away from trade school--if anything, I would encourage it if they have the talent.
The guy busted his *** in tech school and went on to do whatever apprenticeship/certification HVAC people get. He bought his first house, renovated it, sold it for a huge profit. He now works for a major national commercial real estate firm doing HVAC for one of their areas. For years he took side jobs on nights/weekends and was able to get enough funds to buy a huge/rural piece of property and renovate his dream house. At 36, the guy now owns multiple rental properties, has no debt, and is really "in" to investing having lucked out and made a **** ton speculating in Gamestop and crypto.
I admire the hell out of the guy because of what he's done. His property is beautiful and includes a gun range, pond, and he can hunt from his back porch. I would never steer my children away from trade school--if anything, I would encourage it if they have the talent.
Your nephew and his family will have a good life as long as he's willing to work. Trade unions have their plusses and minuses . Dues are ridiculous, but wages excellent, travel can be a problem unless you're in a metro area. Dues in factories are usually 2 1/2 times hourly salary per month, but initiation dues will make you cringe.
Working for a private business or a factory that has good benefits is the best mid ground. Plumbing, Electricians, Welders , Car Techs, and HVAC are probably best bets. Carpentry and Heavy Equipment seem more seasonal and economy dependent.
Working for a private business or a factory that has good benefits is the best mid ground. Plumbing, Electricians, Welders , Car Techs, and HVAC are probably best bets. Carpentry and Heavy Equipment seem more seasonal and economy dependent.
Horrible parenting are parents who let universities scam their children on modern social topics classes, or spend 6 years in college floating around in studies that are equivalent to the one i mentioned.
I hope barren isn’t reading this thread. He is counting on full enrollment in the arts and oh the humanities.
I'm actually in favor of arts and humanities as long as their is a plan to provide a sufficient income (the definition of sufficient is a personal choice). So, for example if I had a son or daughter that wanted to major in Communications, Arts, and Sciences (yes, that's a degree) than they would have HAVE to have a second major for a STEM degree. Say a BS degree in Economics with an emphasis on Finance so that they could be an investment analyst. Oh, and they'd have to figure out a way to get those two degrees in four years.
To the OP, Vo-tech is a great idea. Too many students go the college to please their parents when they don't really want to be there but don't know what else they would do with their time. Strongly encourage him to go, but make sure he realizes that his academic courses are still very important.
If I were to provide counsel to an 8th grader seeking to enter a trade, I would highly recommend Stevens in Lancaster.
stevenscollege.edu
In two years, he can get an Associate's Degree plus a certificate in many trades. Good way to start a life. Plus, he can't get in too much trouble in Lancaster.
Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology
Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology is a trade and technical school accepting students from the state of Pennsylvania as well as military in Lancaster, PA.
stevenscollege.edu
In two years, he can get an Associate's Degree plus a certificate in many trades. Good way to start a life. Plus, he can't get in too much trouble in Lancaster.
If he loves that work and passion I highly recommend it. My nephew had D-1 offers to play football. My sister sat him down and talked to him honestly about how he hated being in the classroom and what a struggle it was for him. He loved working with his hands and building things. Friends of the family for him into the plumbers union in Philly. He now works in the skyscrapers in Philly as a licensed plumber and also certified in welding all paid for by the union. He is in his early 20s. Would be able to retire I believe before 50 with pension and benefits. He absolutely LOVES what he does... looking to now get certified in deep sea welding. So many of his friends are now coming out of college and saying they now wished they had done what he did... these kids have $100-200k in student debt and student loans making half of what he does... He can always go work in the private sector or start his own own company. Huge demand and shortage for solid tech people. Just some.thoughts to ponder what he makes an hour now is excellent money let alone overtime. Just bought a beautiful F-250 pickup with a huge chunk of cash... pays for a lot of his toys in cash and is putting money as well for savings. I would encourage you to at least learn more about the tech route ...
Deep sea welding , serious, serious money. Very dangerous job, they truly earn their money.
An aside here as far as trade schools....do your due diligence. Make sure that actual businesses back up the claims they are making about graduation rates, job placement and starting salaries.
As a boating enthusiast I will use most outboard motor tech schools as an example.
The bottom line is that most outboard repair shops are going to start someone with a certificate from a trade school barely above someone walking in off the street. In the marine trade only manufacturer training is worth anything and that training is only available to dealers.
Some schools will promise the moon as far as career.....
As a boating enthusiast I will use most outboard motor tech schools as an example.
The bottom line is that most outboard repair shops are going to start someone with a certificate from a trade school barely above someone walking in off the street. In the marine trade only manufacturer training is worth anything and that training is only available to dealers.
Some schools will promise the moon as far as career.....
Having worked offshore oil, I can confirm that. I've talked to those guys. Not only dangerous in the immediate sense, but their career longevity is poor. They said no matter how carefully you follow the dive tables, nitrogen bubbles happen. Those nitrogen bubbles collect in your joints.
Their inside joke was....
"How can you tell someone who has been underwater welding more than 7 years"....."he's limping"
Most likely. He didn't have the best upbringing and started going in the wrong direction. But, he righted the ship.
Point being: When you are a good tradesman (HVAC, plumbing, electrician, etc.) with a good work ethic, you basically have a money printer in your spare time. Need a little extra cash for the holidays or a vacation? Pick up a side job.
The problem with many of the trades as I see it is that you need to get your hands dirty to make a living, and the physical side can be demanding. It’s not easy work for a man or woman in his/her 50s, whereas a lawyer or investment banker can work until they’re in their 70s. Personally I wouldn’t want to make a living cleaning out someone’s waste disposal or unclogged toilet.
That’s all very true. People to tend toward the path of least resistance. I can recall only about 1000 specific times I asked myself “wtf I am doing this for”.