FB Recruiting All or nothing Stoops era is new approach

[JRowland]

This story is basically my take on the 'new approach' that is the Mark Stoops era. He's trying to succeed at Kentucky in a way that coaches before him in Lexington haven't attempted. Given that and considering that you can't draw up the perfect coach, here's a big picture case for why Stoops requires patience, and that as bad as things have looked at the end of the last two years, the odds of him 'changing' Kentucky football might be UK's best path to what fans really want.

Stoops era is 'all or nothing' new approach

 

[theoledog]

Good read J-Row.... Respect your POV.

 

[gamecockcat]

Really a good article and articulates the good, bad and ugly of UK's program. Plus, makes a really strong case for Stoops' approach to building a PROGRAM and not just a brief period of relative success. I've always thought that UK could be a solid 6-6 to 9-3 team on a consistent basis with the right coach and right approach. I don't think for any extended length of time we're capable of being a stronger program than GA or FL (maybe TN, too) in the SEC East. Just don't have the built-in advantages those schools have. But, we should never lose to another SEC school 25+ times in a row. Never.

I think Stoops' approach, in the end, will prove to be the only way to get where we want to go. As the article points out, the pure Air Raid offenses are now mostly gone. There are many teams with Air Raid concepts but they've married those concepts to a spread option running game (many times with a dual-threat QB). With so many playing similar sets, it's no wonder that a pure Air Raid offense just isn't as effective, for most teams, as before. How did Spurrier's offenses at USCjr look running the Fun-and-Gun? Not nearly as good as FL's - some of that were the athletes but more of it, I think, is because it wasn't new and different anymore. Too many other teams were running similar schemes and defenses had figured out how to play against it.

Stoops, assuming all the commits stay with UK, has taken at least one huge step to building a program in the SEC. He's recruited some serious SEC-quality OL the past couple of years. With even average development, we should see much better OL play in the next few seasons. The next and most crucial step is recruiting and developing DL talent. When UK can field a true SEC caliber OL and DL, we'll see UK's program make serious progress. Until then, we may have to suffer through a few more .500 seasons. I believe Stoops has the ability to recruit that talent to UK. I'm hoping that the current and/or future staff members have the ability to develop that talent.

Next year will be a watershed year, imo. Do we see development of players and coaches with improved results? Or, do we see a team that is talented in some areas but a hot mess overall - disorganized, disinterested, disgruntled, dismantled. As always, it'll be interesting to be a UK FB fan next year. I am NOT going to get my hopes up but will be cheering as loud and hard as I can for them to finally break through and win 6 or 7 and go bowling. With our schedule next year, that would be quite an achievement.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Great article Jrow. Really good read.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Stoops, assuming all the commits stay with UK, has taken at least one huge step to building a program in the SEC. He's recruited some serious SEC-quality OL the past couple of years. With even average development, we should see much better OL play in the next few seasons. The next and most crucial step is recruiting and developing DL talent. When UK can field a true SEC caliber OL and DL, we'll see UK's program make serious progress. Until then, we may have to suffer through a few more .500 seasons. I believe Stoops has the ability to recruit that talent to UK. I'm hoping that the current and/or future staff members have the ability to develop that talent.

Next year will be a watershed year, imo. Do we see development of players and coaches with improved results? Or, do we see a team that is talented in some areas but a hot mess overall - disorganized, disinterested, disgruntled, dismantled. As always, it'll be interesting to be a UK FB fan next year. I am NOT going to get my hopes up but will be cheering as loud and hard as I can for them to finally break through and win 6 or 7 and go bowling. With our schedule next year, that would be quite an achievement.

I too am interested in next yr.
1. Over the next 1-2 yrs, the excuse of "not having depth, upper class talent, lack of experience, Stoops' guys in place" disappears

2. The schedule make-up is different.
-2014 the first half of the schedule was night/day easier than the last half. There was a 5 game stretch where Kentucky just wasn't expected to compete at all.....by the time we played UL the team was crushed mentally.

-2015 had a really tough 4 game stretch right smack in the middle of the season....where we weren't really expected to win. When you run into tough stretches like that it's hard for a shallow, youthful roster to recover from that......especially when you have other factors like coaching mistakes coming into play.

-2016 is different. Outside of when UK plays UGA and UT back to back, there really isn't a daunting stretch of games where we are expected to get pummeled week after week.

3. Out of the gate - I'm interested to see the energy when the team starts the yr. For the last 2 yrs, they've come out with high energy and motivation before fading the last half of the yr. Stoops has found a way to motivate them well to start the yr. Should he do it again, it may indicate that the players aren't as down on Stoops as a portion of the fanbase is. That the lockerroom may not be divided like some say it is.

Then, I want to watch them finish. If the problem the last 2 yrs has been lack of depth and maturity which has led to the collapses, then improved depth/maturity in the next yr or two should remedy that.

We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Soupbean]

Great take as usual. I've always said the only way for us to get something started here is to get a unique coach that can first create the spark (build a buzz), then turn that into early recruiting success, then take that and be enough of a game and practice coach to overachieve on the field enough to keep the buzz going until the early recruits can payoff, which in turn fuels the fire until you can find bigger logs.

Sorta like starting a fire. Get a spark, find some dry grass, get that to catch some kindling, the sustain that long enough for a good oak log to start. I think Stoops got it to where he is trying to get the kindling caught but that can only happen with difference making coaching on the practice field and in games in development and style of play. At least he has the ability to get it started with recruiting like never before but he and the staff are going to have to work real hard at being better difference makers in development and scheme to get the log started. After that it's just a matter of finding more good wood, so to speak.

 

[Strongtino]

I keep seeing a lot posters continually go back to the same argument when defending Stoops, and thats his recruiting. What about the very real and very common instance where a good recruiter simply isn't a good coach? Like Will Muschamp, like Charlie Weis, like Mike London, like Al Golden, like any number of the big time programs that have recruited well over the last decade and continually brought in top 25 classes and still failed. Some men are simply meant to be coordinators. I'm not saying that Mark Stoops fate is sealed and that he's never going to be a success but this idea that just because he can recruit (he's been really lucky with the state of KY weirdly producing high ranking high schools kids, which we rarely do) then that means he can be a great coach is a little misguided.

 

[Mr Schwump]

I keep seeing a lot posters continually go back to the same argument when defending Stoops, and thats his recruiting. What about the very real and very common instance where a good recruiter simply isn't a good coach? Like Will Muschamp, like Charlie Weis, like Mike London, like Al Golden, like any number of the big time programs that have recruited well over the last decade and continually brought in top 25 classes and still failed. Some men are simply meant to be coordinators. I'm not saying that Mark Stoops fate is sealed and that he's never going to be a success but this idea that just because he can recruit (he's been really lucky with the state of KY weirdly producing high ranking high schools kids, which we rarely do) then that means he can be a great coach is a little misguided.

The state "weirdly producing high ranking high school kids".....kinda like Bush and the Brohms falling in your lap?

If I were a coach I'd rather take my chances with guys wanted by other P5s than the Ohios, MTSUs, Kents, etc of the world. And you don't have to depend on the police blotter to fill out the class.

 

[BlueRaider22]

^Strongtino, It's because in their eyes, UK has never had a great recruiter as a HC......which in turn gives them more patience to find out what he is capable of. He could be a flop, he could be a home run. But given the history of our program, is waiting another yr or two to see what he can do really going to do any harm?

 

[HedleyLamarr]

Stay the course. As long as he is recruiting well, he will either develop the staff into winners, or leave the next coach a loaded deck. Either way, after five years of solid recruiting, Kentucky will be in position for long term success. Firing the coach every three years does not yield that result.

 

[shutzhund]

This story is basically my take on the 'new approach' that is the Mark Stoops era. He's trying to succeed at Kentucky in a way that coaches before him in Lexington haven't attempted. Given that and considering that you can't draw up the perfect coach, here's a big picture case for why Stoops requires patience, and that as bad as things have looked at the end of the last two years, the odds of him 'changing' Kentucky football might be UK's best path to what fans really want.

Stoops era is 'all or nothing' new approach

Great article. I'm convinced that great players make great coaches. Hit some overachievers here or there but you can't live on them in the SEC. Got to get the ones who have the right genes.

 

[Katwatcher]

I keep seeing a lot posters continually go back to the same argument when defending Stoops, and thats his recruiting. What about the very real and very common instance where a good recruiter simply isn't a good coach? Like Will Muschamp, like Charlie Weis, like Mike London, like Al Golden, like any number of the big time programs that have recruited well over the last decade and continually brought in top 25 classes and still failed. Some men are simply meant to be coordinators. I'm not saying that Mark Stoops fate is sealed and that he's never going to be a success but this idea that just because he can recruit (he's been really lucky with the state of KY weirdly producing high ranking high schools kids, which we rarely do) then that means he can be a great coach is a little misguided.

For starters it depends what you mean by failed.? If you mean win the National championship there is room for just one team. It can depend on what conference your in. I agree good recruiting can cover for some coaches, however there is no substitute for elite talent.

Bottom line is a top 25 recruiting class is not equal to a top 5 class. Stoops and staff came in with little experience at their present jobs. Each year just adds to their experience. that is why patience is so important to their success.

Kentucky in particular is a hard place to coach because they play one of the toughest schedules in nation EVERY year. It is probably the least fertile recruiting state in the SEC. jmho

 

[Anjiejo]

I keep seeing a lot posters continually go back to the same argument when defending Stoops, and thats his recruiting. What about the very real and very common instance where a good recruiter simply isn't a good coach? Like Will Muschamp, like Charlie Weis, like Mike London, like Al Golden, like any number of the big time programs that have recruited well over the last decade and continually brought in top 25 classes and still failed. Some men are simply meant to be coordinators. I'm not saying that Mark Stoops fate is sealed and that he's never going to be a success but this idea that just because he can recruit (he's been really lucky with the state of KY weirdly producing high ranking high schools kids, which we rarely do) then that means he can be a great coach is a little misguided.

I 100% think stoops can be successful, #1 because of his recruiting.. What i think will determine if he will be successful and how successful he will be is on (who he hires on his staff especially his oc)... He know's defense to where i expect his defense will be solid enough to win 7+ games a year.. It doesn't matter how good your recruiting is if your staff can't teach (blocking/tackling) your not getting very far... You also should be able to run a system that can create mismatches on offense with a TE like conrad along with boom/baker/johnson/bone ect... No doubt in my mind he will make changes,now will that involve coaches or just the way they do things remains to be seen.. But if the changes end up being right then we will be happy. if not then i expect barnhart will probably give him one more chance to switch coaches/cordinators..

I think it would be in our best interest if we give him plenty of time to grow (2 more years) as a HC to correct his mistakes. He could turn out to be a dud,on the other hand he could turn out to be a grand slam hire..

 

[sluggercatfan]

This story is basically my take on the 'new approach' that is the Mark Stoops era. He's trying to succeed at Kentucky in a way that coaches before him in Lexington haven't attempted. Given that and considering that you can't draw up the perfect coach, here's a big picture case for why Stoops requires patience, and that as bad as things have looked at the end of the last two years, the odds of him 'changing' Kentucky football might be UK's best path to what fans really want.

Stoops era is 'all or nothing' new approach

Best players on this team are from the south... So I don't buy too much into getting the top players out of Ohio because he certainly isn't... the south is where all the speed is if you're not getting some players from there you're not going to compete in the SEC with Northern players and players from the state of Kentucky

 

[vhcat70]

A quibble: UK is not the SEC's northernmost school anymore. Mizzou is geographically further north.

Concerning patience, it's not necessarily that some of us want Stoops gone, it's just that there's only so much patience in each of us & we're long over-tired of waiting & so will just leave. We're not mad but disappointed. Don't think anyone can fault people for that. Stoops just chose to step into a decades long negative background - partially his boss' responsibility - that he can't alter & has to deal with if he intends to stay.

When attendance is way down in 2016 as I expect, it's more likely due to tiredness over sending a statement. People are past that.

 

[vhcat70]

BTW, for all Stoops' recruiting success, hard to believe the poor state of both lines. Help is due to arrive, but can't expect that to really pan out till '17 earliest.

 

[Anjiejo]

Best players on this team are from the south... So I don't buy too much into getting the top players out of Ohio because he certainly isn't... the south is where all the speed is if you're not getting some players from there you're not going to compete in the SEC with Northern players and players from the state of Kentucky

I love players from the south. Most of them turn out better then there rating. But several ohio guy's showed a lot of promise this past year,Edwards/west/conrad and baker has all the talent he needs to be special.

 

[sluggercatfan]

I love players from the south. Most of them turn out better then there rating. But several ohio guy's showed a lot of promise this past year,Edwards/west/conrad and baker has all the talent he needs to be special.

Not trying to knock on the guys from Ohio because we do have several players that look very promising... I love Conrad ,what causes me a lot of concern if and that is a big if the coaches will concentrate on making him a big focus of the offense. .. and you can definitely color me that I'm not buying the stuff that Mark Stoops is the only guy out there that can get this job done... I have several people that I think would be as good or better... but I am NOT wishing for him to fail. I hope he is the most successful coach that has ever been here.. I just do not see a lot of promises

 

[FtWorthCat]

Not sure it's accurate to say no coach at UK has ever recruited as well as Stoops is. There weren't many recruiting rankings around during the 70s when Curci was stockpiling talent. Claiborne had several future NFL players go through the program during the 80s. Curry left a pretty solid pool of skill position players to help Mumme's system work. Stoops is recruiting better than the coaches we've had during the internet era. But so far there is very little player development, obviously. Brooks' staff did a great job at developing players, such as Woodyard, Cobb, etc. I want to see a well-coached team, and I haven't seen one since Brooks left town.

Give me a guy like Gary Patterson (yes, I know fully well that we can't get the real Gary Patterson). Patterson doesn't win a lot of high profile recruiting battles, but there is plenty of talent in the D/FW area that he can develop. Plus, he realizes that Fort Worth is a good place to live (as is Lexington) so he has settled in at TCU and you hardly even hear his name mentioned anymore when a big name job opens. Our recruiting rankings over the last three years are better than TCU's rankings as a whole, but they are a far superior team because of coaching/player development.

 

[willievic]

Great article JR. Your on the money with Coach Stoops. I have watched UK football since Coach Bryant, and this is only the second time I have seen a coach recruit players who I though could compete with most teams. The other time was when we had Derrick Ramsey, Art Still and that group.
I really feel if Coach Stoops can get his game plan down, quit arguing with the refs, and let his Assistant coaches do their job, we will be a team in two or three years that can compete with ANYONE. It takes at least 5 years and probably 6 to get the players you want. Every player, regardless of stars will NOT work out, as we've seen. You must have at least two deep, at every position, and three or four at some positions. Just think of this year.
I, like most fans, especially being 76, wish it would happen sooner, but I think were on the right track, and I know I will be there for all the games, WIN OR LOSE.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[HSLex]

Assuming these early recruiting classes have been sold on playing time, what do we think Stoops will be selling future classes on?

Serious question.

Coach Cal's recruiting pitch gets to stay the same, all of the time. I can't figure out what Stoops' is going to be.

I still vote for Vision No. 2 in Rowland's article. With an experienced head coach and the improved facilities, etc. I would like to see that pairing given a chance.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Really a good article and articulates the good, bad and ugly of UK's program. Plus, makes a really strong case for Stoops' approach to building a PROGRAM and not just a brief period of relative success. I've always thought that UK could be a solid 6-6 to 9-3 team on a consistent basis with the right coach and right approach. I don't think for any extended length of time we're capable of being a stronger program than GA or FL (maybe TN, too) in the SEC East. Just don't have the built-in advantages those schools have. But, we should never lose to another SEC school 25+ times in a row. Never.

I think Stoops' approach, in the end, will prove to be the only way to get where we want to go. As the article points out, the pure Air Raid offenses are now mostly gone. There are many teams with Air Raid concepts but they've married those concepts to a spread option running game (many times with a dual-threat QB). With so many playing similar sets, it's no wonder that a pure Air Raid offense just isn't as effective, for most teams, as before. How did Spurrier's offenses at USCjr look running the Fun-and-Gun? Not nearly as good as FL's - some of that were the athletes but more of it, I think, is because it wasn't new and different anymore. Too many other teams were running similar schemes and defenses had figured out how to play against it.

Stoops, assuming all the commits stay with UK, has taken at least one huge step to building a program in the SEC. He's recruited some serious SEC-quality OL the past couple of years. With even average development, we should see much better OL play in the next few seasons. The next and most crucial step is recruiting and developing DL talent. When UK can field a true SEC caliber OL and DL, we'll see UK's program make serious progress. Until then, we may have to suffer through a few more .500 seasons. I believe Stoops has the ability to recruit that talent to UK. I'm hoping that the current and/or future staff members have the ability to develop that talent.

Next year will be a watershed year, imo. Do we see development of players and coaches with improved results? Or, do we see a team that is talented in some areas but a hot mess overall - disorganized, disinterested, disgruntled, dismantled. As always, it'll be interesting to be a UK FB fan next year. I am NOT going to get my hopes up but will be cheering as loud and hard as I can for them to finally break through and win 6 or 7 and go bowling. With our schedule next year, that would be quite an achievement.

say what you will, but if MS cannot decide on an offense that is good enough to score more than 17 or 18 points in the SEC we will never and I mean never be successful... That is my biggest drawback with him is he doesn't seem to think scoring points on a large scale mean alot today in college football and all you got to do is look at the scores

 

[JRowland]

Best players on this team are from the south... So I don't buy too much into getting the top players out of Ohio because he certainly isn't... the south is where all the speed is if you're not getting some players from there you're not going to compete in the SEC with Northern players and players from the state of Kentucky

Well on next year's team you'll the likely Ohio starters will be Mike Edwards, Darius West, Courtney Love, De'Niro Laster, Kyle Meadows, George Asafo-Adjei, Tate Leavitt, C.J. Conrad and Dorian Baker with a heavy helping of guys from up there on the second team across the board.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Assuming these early recruiting classes have been sold on playing time, what do we think Stoops will be selling future classes on?

Serious question.

Coach Cal's recruiting pitch gets to stay the same, all of the time. I can't figure out what Stoops' is going to be.

I still vote for Vision No. 2 in Rowland's article. With an experienced head coach and the improved facilities, etc. I would like to impulsesee that pairing given a chance.

Total agreement...if MS isn't successful I'd love to see an experienced HC that is offensive minded and understands how important it is in today's game...thought it interesting on ksr this morning that someone close to NB's family that MS would not let him run the offensive he wanted to run

 

[JRowland]

Total agreement...if MS isn't successful I'd love to see an experienced HC that is offensive minded and understands how important it is in today's game...thought it interesting on ksr this morning that someone close to NB's family that MS would not let him run the offensive he wanted to run

Talk of Stoops becoming more involved in the offense the last two years has some merit, in some cases. But some of the claims don't hold water. It doesn't make sense that Mark Stoops would usurp Neal Brown and Shannon Dawson's authority in a significant way for two straight years when these two very different coordinators began each season differently and the play calling ended differently each year. It seems implausible that the same head coach would intervene in consecutive years but in such different ways, if you look at how the offense ran in '14 and '15. I do think he needs to delegate the offensive stuff to the offensive staff 100-percent.

 

[Strongtino]

^Strongtino, It's because in their eyes, UK has never had a great recruiter as a HC......which in turn gives them more patience to find out what he is capable of. He could be a flop, he could be a home run. But given the history of our program, is waiting another yr or two to see what he can do really going to do any harm?

No, I think you have to give him more time too, Barnhardt has made sure of that. Stoops will be the coach at Kentucky for the next 2 years without a doubt and in all likelihood he'll be the coach for the next 3 years.

My point that I was making, that after re-reading my post I've noticed that I didn't do a job of making is that, at least in my view I feel like his ability to recruit kids who have nice rankings is always the comeback when people question Stoops ability to coach. He can't manage the clock - yeah but he can recruit...he can't develop the talent - yeah but he can recruit....we've collapsed late in the year two years in a row now - yeah but he can recruit...what is up with our play calling...yeah but he can recruit. Recruiting is vital to building a good program, but so is developing talent and being a good coach, tons of great recruiting coaches have been failures.

 

[BlueRaider22]

^I got ya'. I think the reason why they bring it up is because the recruiting may just buy Stoops some time to develop as a coach. I know, that's what I'm hoping for.

 

[gamecockcat]

Best players on this team are from the south... So I don't buy too much into getting the top players out of Ohio because he certainly isn't... the south is where all the speed is if you're not getting some players from there you're not going to compete in the SEC with Northern players and players from the state of Kentucky

Don't agree with this take at all. First of all, seems like tOSU took all the marbles last year with a bunch of kids from Ohio. Didn't look slow to me last year (or this year). MSU doesn't recruit the South that heavily and they're in the CFP. There are fast kids and good football players everywhere, not just the South. Plenty of kids from OH, MI, PN, NJ in the NFL.

Second, historically, when we've gone down into the deep South, we were not getting any better than 3rd tier kids. The 100th best player in GA is NOT better than the 24th best player in OH in most years, I'd wager. Now, Stoops has done better than that recently in the deep South although not huge numbers.

 

[ukdesi]

The model coach for UK is Mark Dantonio, not Nick Saban. He built MSU into a national contender with recruiting classes worse than UK's current classes. He has had talent though, despite star rankings. Mostly though, he is just a very very good leader and coach.

Not sure if Stoops is in that same mold.

 

[Real Deal 2]

Don't agree with this take at all. First of all, seems like tOSU took all the marbles last year with a bunch of kids from Ohio. Didn't look slow to me last year (or this year). MSU doesn't recruit the South that heavily and they're in the CFP. There are fast kids and good football players everywhere, not just the South. Plenty of kids from OH, MI, PN, NJ in the NFL.

Second, historically, when we've gone down into the deep South, we were not getting any better than 3rd tier kids. The 100th best player in GA is NOT better than the 24th best player in OH in most years, I'd wager. Now, Stoops has done better than that recently in the deep South although not huge numbers.

Lindley, Woodyard and 3 other LaGrange kids, Trevathian in Fla. Bud Dupree ring a bell. Zadarius was deep South

Give me 6-7 from Ga every year and 5-6 from Fla. than 6-8 from Ohio, that is just me. I mean our best offensive player is from Ga. best WR from Fla. All of these Ohio kids, which ones have really turned out to be special.
I am just saying.

I am all for UK treating Ohio as part of state etc. Long overdue to get players from there but this is not magic wand and some of these higher rated guys have not panned out and some have transferred away.

Just Saying that Ga guys and Fla guys are better or have been to us.

 

[JRowland]

Part of the problem is they simply haven't been successful recruiting kids in a lot of the southern states. It's a credit to Marrow that he's able to get 15 commitments or so in a given class. That's almost unprecedented anywhere. But I'm sure the staff would be all for scaling that number back if they could get comparable or better players from the South in some instances. Mark Stoops isn't accepting commitments from Ohio players he thinks are inferior. In almost all of those cases they've had the Ohio kid and the southern kids in to camp and worked with them in person in a controlled setting, testing the things they look for in a player. I do think Ohio kids might be slightly preferred all things being equal because it's easier for them to visit frequently and hence stay on board.

 

[NoDef]

I had always thought it was stupid to recruit all of our players from the south. We were beating out Kent State and Tulsa for recruits most of the time. My argument was how many schools would have to not offer before they accepted UK? How many kids from Florida would not stop at any SEC or ACC in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, or TN, before choosing Kentucky? Most of the kids we were pulling were lacking other major conference offers. You may find a few good ones, but like I said, those would have to lack big offers everywhere else closer to home. Too many big time traditional programs in between Florida and Lexington. We can pull more out of the north. We can offer SEC and better weather over most of the BIG 10 schools. Location advantage of being closer to home over the SEC teams south of us. We still won't beat out OSU (now Michigan) , but we can pull some away from the rest of them. I never could figure out why we never used that as our advantage. Didn't even recruit Cincinnati hard. Stoops is doing the right thing in recruiting, but if he can't show he can coach worth a darn recruiting will eventually fall off too.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Talk of Stoops becoming more involved in the offense the last two years has some merit, in some cases. But some of the claims don't hold water. It doesn't make sense that Mark Stoops would usurp Neal Brown and Shannon Dawson's authority in a significant way for two straight years when these two very different coordinators began each season differently and the play calling ended differently each year. It seems implausible that the same head coach would intervene in consecutive years but in such different ways, if you look at how the offense ran in '14 and '15. I do think he needs to delegate the offensive stuff to the offensive staff 100-percent.

Jeff in theory that sounds good, but I don't think it is in his dna, MO whatever to do that...I am at a loss as why he keeps hiring these guys because I think it is quite apparent he does not want to play that way

 

[hmt5000]

No, I think you have to give him more time too, Barnhardt has made sure of that. Stoops will be the coach at Kentucky for the next 2 years without a doubt and in all likelihood he'll be the coach for the next 3 years.

My point that I was making, that after re-reading my post I've noticed that I didn't do a job of making is that, at least in my view I feel like his ability to recruit kids who have nice rankings is always the comeback when people question Stoops ability to coach. He can't manage the clock - yeah but he can recruit...he can't develop the talent - yeah but he can recruit....we've collapsed late in the year two years in a row now - yeah but he can recruit...what is up with our play calling...yeah but he can recruit. Recruiting is vital to building a good program, but so is developing talent and being a good coach, tons of great recruiting coaches have been failures.

i think that bud, Z, cj, forrest, and avery would all agree that they got developed perfectly fine under stoops. we got to see how the rest do but usually freshmen and rs freshmen are not what they are gonna be in 2 or 3 years. the next 2 years (next year really) will tell the tale on development and team building though.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Lindley, Woodyard and 3 other LaGrange kids, Trevathian in Fla. Bud Dupree ring a bell. Zadarius was deep South

Give me 6-7 from Ga every year and 5-6 from Fla. than 6-8 from Ohio, that is just me. I mean our best offensive player is from Ga. best WR from Fla. All of these Ohio kids, which ones have really turned out to be special.
I am just saying.

I am all for UK treating Ohio as part of state etc. Long overdue to get players from there but this is not magic wand and some of these higher rated guys have not panned out and some have transferred away.

Just Saying that Ga guys and Fla guys are better or have been to us.

Hello!!!! THIS^^^^^

 

[sluggercatfan]

I had always thought it was stupid to recruit all of our players from the south. We were beating out Kent State and Tulsa for recruits most of the time. My argument was how many schools would have to not offer before they accepted UK? How many kids from Florida would not stop at any SEC or ACC in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, or TN, before choosing Kentucky? Most of the kids we were pulling were lacking other major conference offers. You may find a few good ones, but like I said, those would have to lack big offers everywhere else closer to home. Too many big time traditional programs in between Florida and Lexington. We can pull more out of the north. We can offer SEC and better weather over most of the BIG 10 schools. Location advantage of being closer to home over the SEC teams south of us. We still won't beat out OSU (now Michigan) , but we can pull some away from the rest of them. I never could figure out why we never used that as our advantage. Didn't even recruit Cincinnati hard. Stoops is doing the right thing in recruiting, but if he can't show he can coach worth a darn recruiting will eventually fall off too.

Pretty sure the kid that lit us up against Otis was from the state of Fla...

 

[BlueRaider22]

The model coach for UK is Mark Dantonio, not Nick Saban. He built MSU into a national contender with recruiting classes worse than UK's current classes. He has had talent though, despite star rankings. Mostly though, he is just a very very good leader and coach.

Not sure if Stoops is in that same mold.

I think Dantonio is a good model to compare to. Though keep in mind that it wasn't all peaches and cream for him early on either. When he won 4 games in his 2nd yr of head coaching at Cincy there was a large collection of fans calling for his head. Then he in his 4th as a HC he was hired by MSU. After only winning 6 games in his 6th (3rd at MSU) as a HC a large group of fans wanted him fired citing that he "didn't have what it takes to manage games." He then went on to win mostly double digits since then.

Now certainly we have no clue what to expect from Stoops' future. But certainly the history of college football tells us not to be too quick to judge one way or the other.

 

[cole854]

This story is basically my take on the 'new approach' that is the Mark Stoops era. He's trying to succeed at Kentucky in a way that coaches before him in Lexington haven't attempted. Given that and considering that you can't draw up the perfect coach, here's a big picture case for why Stoops requires patience, and that as bad as things have looked at the end of the last two years, the odds of him 'changing' Kentucky football might be UK's best path to what fans really want.

Stoops era is 'all or nothing' new approach

Brown was in over his head, as is Dawson.

Team hasn't "improved" in regards to fundamental football in the last 2 years.

Team has gotten progressively worse the second half of the season each year.

This has zero to do with patience and everything to do with hiring the right personnel.

 

[ukalumni00]

I have my doubts right now, but I am going to hope and pray that Stoops can start to find that spark needed in year 4 to start having the success that hopefully in 3-4 years were all can look back and say he just needed more time.

 

[BlueRaider22]

This has zero to do with patience and everything to do with hiring the right personnel.

But do we have the right personnel? The answer is that we don't know. There are so many parts that need improvement. Reminds me of a scene from Ghostbusters....


Dr Ray Stantz: [gets out] Everybody can relax, I found the car. Needs some suspension work and shocks. Brakes, brake pads, lining, steering box, transmission, rear-end.

Dr. Peter Venkman: How much?

Dr Ray Stantz: Only $4800.
[Venkman looks shocked]

Dr Ray Stantz: Also new rings, mufflers, a little wiring......