Andy Beshear - Not a fan of Science

[bkingUK]

Read up on Southern Hemisphere virus seasonality.

I had same thought, but if that were true then why would their trajectory increase at same time as US? Look at beginning of increase in July in both countries. Alternating hemispheres, yet both saw similar rate of increase at exact same time.

 

[anthonys735]

I had same thought, but if that were true then why would their trajectory increase at same time as US? Look at beginning of increase in July in both countries. Alternating hemispheres, yet both saw similar rate of increase at exact same time.

Ours was Sun Belt states.

I'm sure their military controlled extreme lockdown played a part. Obviously, that's never going to happen here. During that summer surge we had millions of people protesting every night. Also, that area of the world has been largely spared across the board compared to US and Europe.

The biggest counter would be South America but then Africa got off easy. It's all hard to tell.

 

[bkingUK]

Ours was Sun Belt states.

I'm sure their military controlled extreme lockdown played a part. Obviously, that's never going to happen here. During that summer surge we had millions of people protesting every night. Also, that area of the world has been largely spared across the board compared to US and Europe.

The biggest counter would be South America but then Africa got off easy. It's all hard to tell.

Ah. Then what is the percentage of increase caused by protests in US?

 

[anthonys735]

Ah. Then what is the percentage of increase caused by protests in US?

No idea.

 

[cole854]

Ah. Then what is the percentage of increase caused by protests in US?

Had the liberal dolts leading the charge of these protests cared enough to measure it, we might have an idea. They dare not offend their constituents by bringing up covid when there are buildings to be burned.

 

[bkingUK]

Had the liberal dolts leading the charge of these protests cared enough to measure it, we might have an idea. They dare not offend their constituents by bringing up covid when there are buildings to be burned.

What difference does your acceptance of protests make? Why does your or anyone else’s opinion about protests even make a difference? Did any of the protesters ask for permission to protest? No. So, other than complaining about their cause, what exactly is your point?

 

[80 Proof]

What difference does your acceptance of protests make? Why does your or anyone else’s opinion about protests even make a difference? Did any of the protesters ask for permission to protest? No. So, other than complaining about their cause, what exactly is your point?

If you believe what you are typing, then you are too dense for rational discussion. I'm just going to believe you aren't really that stupid and consider you a troll at this point.

 

[jwheat]

What difference does your acceptance of protests make? Why does your or anyone else’s opinion about protests even make a difference? Did any of the protesters ask for permission to protest? No. So, other than complaining about their cause, what exactly is your point?

I feel the same way about going into the store without a mask or having all my friends over for a Friendsgiving

 

[anthonys735]

If you believe what you are typing, then you are too dense for rational discussion. I'm just going to believe you aren't really that stupid and consider you a troll at this point.

Correct. He's insinuating that Australia did well by locking down harder than the US. Well, I guess those lockdowns only include normal people. You can't be for stiffer lockdowns and protests. That makes no sense.

If you think anyone in this country was going to allow military vehicles cruising the streets enforcing lockdown, don't know what to tell you. Hell, most of the local prosecutors and police refused to even address the mandates. They didn't have any restaurants, bars, and locked down after one case.

 

[catlanta33]

Australia lockdown for 110 something days because some POS said he got it from a pizza box?

AHAHAHAHA

But seriously, that dude deserves some evil ****.

 

[bkingUK]

Correct. He's insinuating that Australia did well by locking down harder than the US. Well, I guess those lockdowns only include normal people. You can't be for stiffer lockdowns and protests. That makes no sense.

If you think anyone in this country was going to allow military vehicles cruising the streets enforcing lockdown, don't know what to tell you. Hell, most of the local prosecutors and police refused to even address the mandates. They didn't have any restaurants, bars, and locked down after one case.

Straw man argument. You’re insinuating we need military style lockdowns, and it’s your assertion that they must be “military style” in order to work. You can’t play those games with me.

My point was strictly statistical.

Question 1) Do quarantines reduce rate of infection? All answers appear to be yes.

Question 2) Do quarantines, while having adverse economic impact in short term, benefit the economy longterm more so than the piecemeal approach? Quite possibly, yes.

The reason we can’t have a debate on this, however, is because there is no agreement on the problem of Covid. Many of you will not acknowledge covid as a health risk, therefore no government action is justified.

In which case, my friends, I’m quite literally wasting my time.

 

[catlanta33]

Oh wait, we lockeddown the US because of the 4 million that would die if we did nothing.

 

[bkingUK]

If you believe what you are typing, then you are too dense for rational discussion. I'm just going to believe you aren't really that stupid and consider you a troll at this point.

@80 Proof. Just try to make one cohesive argument. It’d bring me joy.

 

[catlanta33]

Just short term economic and unintended consequences BUT WHAT ABOUT LONG TERM EFFECTS?!

That's cute. It takes years to dig out of bankruptcy.

 

[bkingUK]

I feel the same way about going into the store without a mask or having all my friends over for a Friendsgiving

Regardless of government dictates, I don’t think either of these actions are prudent.

 

[jwheat]

Straw man argument. You’re insinuating we need military style lockdowns, and it’s your assertion that they must be “military style” in order to work. You can’t play those games with me.

My point was strictly statistical.

Question 1) Do quarantines reduce rate of infection? All answers appear to be yes.

Question 2) Do quarantines, while having adverse economic impact in short term, benefit the economy longterm more so than the piecemeal approach? Quite possibly, yes.

The reason we can’t have a debate on this, however, is because there is no agreement on the problem of Covid. Many of you will not acknowledge covid as a health risk, therefore no government action is justified.

In which case, my friends, I’m quite literally wasting my time.

McDonald’s is a health risk

 

[bkingUK]

Just short term economic and unintended consequences BUT WHAT ABOUT LONG TERM EFFECTS?!

That's cute. It takes years to dig out of bankruptcy.

How has this strategy worked out for the US?

 

[anthonys735]

Straw man argument. You’re insinuating we need military style lockdowns, and it’s your assertion that they must be “military style” in order to work. You can’t play those games with me.

My point was strictly statistical.

Question 1) Do quarantines reduce rate of infection? All answers appear to be yes.

Question 2) Do quarantines, while having adverse economic impact in short term, benefit the economy longterm more so than the piecemeal approach? Quite possibly, yes.

The reason we can’t have a debate on this, however, is because there is no agreement on the problem of Covid. Many of you will not acknowledge covid as a health risk, therefore no government action is justified.

In which case, my friends, I’m quite literally wasting my time.

Lol, find where I've said covid isn't a health risk. It's killed north of 200k people. (edit 174k)

Quarantines do work, but the cost is pretty f*cking steep, especially when it appears they only have minimal effect. We can compare several different countries if you'd like. We decided to throw quarantines out the window in May, not sure why you're so bent on them. Republicans wanted to get back to work and democrats wanted to protest. At that point we were riding a wave of ease restrictions then lockdown. US is great at a lot of things, being diligent during a pandemic, probably isn't going to be one of them, especially when it's not very lethal. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's who we are. Most of Europe is the same way.

My biggest gripe is during all this we decided schools were the first thing to close and remain closed. Which is really f*cked up.

But congrats to Australia on being in the Southern Hemisphere during their viral off season, maybe Fauci can change that for us.

 

[catlanta33]

How has this strategy worked out for the US?

Great if you're a boomer. Coincidentally that's who lockdowns help, too.

But hey, just short term economic pain for the individual losing everything. They'll be fine.

 

[bkingUK]

Lol, find where I've said covid isn't a health risk. It's killed north of 200k people.

Quarantines do work, but the cost is pretty f*cking steep, especially when it appears they only have minimal effect. We can compare several different countries if you'd like. We decided to throw quarantines out the window in May, not sure why you're so bent on them. Republicans wanted to get back to work and democrats wanted to protest. At that point we were riding a wave of ease restrictions then lockdown. US is great at a lot of things, being diligent during a pandemic, probably isn't going to be one of them, especially when it's not very lethal. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's who we are. Most of Europe is the same way.

My biggest gripe is during all this we decided schools were the first thing to close and remain closed. Which is really f*cked up.

But congrats to Australia on being in the Southern Hemisphere during their viral off season, maybe Fauci can change that for us.

Now we have progress. You secede covid is real and is a threat.

Your argument of minimal effect contradicts your assertion that “military style” lockdowns worked in Australia, however.

What is your solution?

 

[bkingUK]

The solution being proposed from the right in this thread, as much as I can ascertain, is that the government should do nothing to promote the idea of limiting social interactions.

If this is the case, what is the desired role of government in a pandemic?

 

[anthonys735]

#1 get kids back in school and go from there.

 

[anthonys735]

The solution being proposed from the right in this thread, as much as I can ascertain, is that the government should do nothing to promote the idea of limiting social interactions.

If this is the case, what is the desired role of government in a pandemic?

That's f*cking ridiculous and you know it.

 

[bkingUK]

That's f*cking ridiculous and you know it.

then what is the solution you’re proposing?

 

[anthonys735]

then what is the solution you’re proposing?

Nationally or KY?

 

[bkingUK]

That's f*cking ridiculous and you know it.

It should also be pointed out that it most definitely is not ridiculous. There is a pretty large subsection of people, many of whom are represented in this thread, who’d be perfectly ok if the government literally did nothing to combat the pandemic. They view any action taken by government as being an over reach.

 

[bkingUK]

Nationally or KY?

Federally I’m not even sure it matters. The legal levers the federals have largely lack teeth. The federal strategy should 100% be on the cure, vaccine and making emergency resources available.

 

[anthonys735]

It should also be pointed out that it most definitely is not ridiculous. There is a pretty large subsection of people, many of whom are represented in this thread, who’d be perfectly ok if the government literally did nothing to combat the pandemic. They view any action taken by government as being an over reach.

It's not a large subsection and I doubt they'd be ok with no reaction. They probably just want a fair justified reaction. Just like there's not a large subsection that thinks it's fine to arbitrarily close businesses, schools, roll tanks through the streets for a communist style lockdown, and force inoculations on people, BUT it's ok for millions to protest in the streets all summer. That's just you.

 

[cole854]

Many of you will not acknowledge covid as a health risk, therefore no government action is justified.

Everyone on here KNOWS covid is a health risk. There are also those who KNOW that lockdowns will cause as much harm as the disease. You obviously fail to see this.

 

[80 Proof]

@80 Proof. Just try to make one cohesive argument. It’d bring me joy.

False

 

[P19978]

Until we know EXACTLY how many deaths were "from Covid" rather than "with Covid"... there's no discussion to be had. The 220k+ number is clearly bullshite.

The original premise of the Left's argument can't be proven.

 

[anthonys735]

Until we know EXACTLY how many deaths were "from Covid" rather than "with Covid"... there's no discussion to be had. The 220k+ number is clearly bullshite.

The original premise of the Left's argument can't be proven.

The most reliable estimate that tracks this is about 174k, as of 11/20. That's "died of" covid.

 

[chroix]

I’d bet if a handful of us sat down at a table we could have a good plan in place in less than a day. The divide is being created by people trying to stay in power on both sides. There are common sense solutions. Just not common sense politicians.

 

[P19978]

The most reliable estimate that tracks this is about 174k, as of 11/20. That's "died of" covid.

How many of the deaths were at hospitals who received compensation for Covid deaths over and beyond a non-Covid death?

Pay me enough money... and I'll say anything you want (see: climate change/global warming).

 

[anthonys735]

I would say TES, the guy with those numbers, would not be fudging the numbers to make things look worse than reality. If anything, the opposite.

 

[jwheat]

It should also be pointed out that it most definitely is not ridiculous. There is a pretty large subsection of people, many of whom are represented in this thread, who’d be perfectly ok if the government literally did nothing to combat the pandemic. They view any action taken by government as being an over reach.

Making the public aware of the risks and letting them decide how to go about their lives isn’t doing nothing. It’s allowing a free society to remain free

 

[P19978]

I would say TES, the guy with those numbers, would not be fudging the numbers to make things look worse than reality. If anything, the opposite.

Sorry: I should have more accurate.

The hospital administrators are the ones fudging "death by Covid"... its simply for extra comp.

I have a friend who is an ER doc who has seen the menu for his hospital.

I also have a client whose husband passed away from a heart attack at home. the hospital tested him for Covid at the hospital, AFTER DEATH, and when she got the Death Certificate from the funeral home it listed Covid as cause of death.


TES is simply reporting data... which they can't verify.

 

[anthonys735]

So, what you'd be looking for is the number of deaths we're associating with covid that would normally not be associated with a virus because of large scale testing and heightened awareness. Also, because of the CARES incentive to co-morbid deaths as covid. He's routinely pulled the with out and he also pulls out missing Pneumonia/Flu deaths over our average.

What you're claiming is happening, btw. It's why hospitals are testing every single patient and incoming patient.

 

[TheShowKiller]

Federally I’m not even sure it matters. The legal levers the federals have largely lack teeth. The federal strategy should 100% be on the cure, vaccine and making emergency resources available.

All of it lacks teeth.

Take our local mask mandate for example. I think something like 80 citations were written by the health department, I'm not sure any have been paid. And if they aren't are we prosecuting these people? Suing them? Issuing warrants if they don't show up for their court date or pay their fine/costs? Putting them in a jail where there is an extremely high risk of outbreak? Doesn't that defeat the original purpose?

From day one the focus should have been on educating the public about the risks of the virus and having an honest, nuanced conversation about the numbers. Guidelines and suggestions should have been issued to businesses and individuals and if they refused to follow them, well, at some point people will stop going because of their own risk assessment or eventually an attorney will figure out a cause of action.

But politicians bungled the message since the beginning, they made promises, moved the goal posts, played the blame game and ultimately created a cause for a bunch of law abiding citizens whom by and large would have been compliant otherwise.

 

[anthonys735]

I’d bet if a handful of us sat down at a table we could have a good plan in place in less than a day. The divide is being created by people trying to stay in power on both sides. There are common sense solutions. Just not common sense politicians.

Yeah, back to the solutions.

Obviously, 100% transparency on numbers. Which Kentucky is about the worst in the country on this.

1. Re-open all schools with OPTION of virtual learning. Work with surrounding states to pair at risk teachers with virtual students regardless of district. Would require a validation waiver for students to use the bus. Save those for single parents only. Separate schools in to cohorts. Use empty conference centers in hotels, etc for classrooms that couldn't meet distancing requirements.

THEN

2. Stop testing asymptomatic people unless they were visiting at risk family.

3. Move to almost exclusive antigen rapid testing. Verify positives with lab tests. I would find as many rapid tests as I could acquire and distribute them to prisons and long term care facilities. Family would test on entry and visit with patients in a designated negative pressure area that government subsidized. We're testing thousands of citizens and can't even get LTC facilities tested frequently. The fact KY hasn't slowed Long Term Care outbreaks and deaths goes to show their level of competence with this.

4. Scrap contact tracers and shift to census and reporting for infections. Work on large scale antibody testing. Require a digital survey for found infections, with list of close contacts. People should be more apt to comply with digital than a phone call. Also, less stress about getting others quarantined.

5. With that data determine what are high risks areas. If restaurants are, require an HVAC company to certify (x) number of air changes in the building, open windows are cheap and effective, and theoretically reduce capacity to 50%. Adequate spacing between tables and no bar area standing. Same with bars. No restrictions on hours, that's ridiculous. Again, I would need to see proof these are drivers of infection.

6. Encourage people to work out, take vitamins C/D/Zinc, improve diet and lose weight. Gyms would need similar certification from HVAC companies with suggestions on air changes. Then encourage then to stay within their network of common people and eliminate expanding it. So basically cohort ourselves. If you're going out of it to see at risk, get a rapid test on the way.

7. Adjust our stupid zone system to common sense. So a county isn't on red after 12 positives.


We're(Ky) just more concerned about catching every single infection than fighting the virus on a large scale. Forrest/ Trees.

My last post over here, sticking to the bigsexycat thread. One is plenty for me.