Another Attack in United Kingdom

[Bill Derington]

Does anyone on here believe what the west has been doing is working? Anyone believe this will be the last attack? You can't stop someone that isn't afraid of dying from killing, by playing defense.

We are in a war whether we want to acknowledge or not, it's happening.
We either begin to treat it as such or wait for the attack that forces us to realize it.

 

[cardkilla_rivals379685]

Does anyone on here believe what the west has been doing is working? Anyone believe this will be the last attack? You can't stop someone that isn't afraid of dying from killing, by playing defense.

We are in a war whether we want to acknowledge or not, it's happening.
We either begin to treat it as such or wait for the attack that forces us to realize it.

Yes, the West has been doing nothing for the past 20 years. We've bombed the **** out of them since 9/11. Spent trillions of dollars doing it. You can't kill an ideology that easily. Obviously these animals do not care about their lives or anyone elses, including their own supposed Muslim brothers.

There will be no end in sight and no one, not even the Chosen One can stop it. Murdering their families does nothing but gain them sympathy.

If you can hurt their funding and their ability to recruit over the Internet that's a start. Otherwise you have to infiltrate their groups and continue to thwart future attacks. Something the US has done pretty well thus far.

Europe is an easy target simply because of geography. The US would be having these issues if we were closer.

Interesting to think how much different things might be if Hussein was still in Iraq instead of the US.

 

[Bill Derington]

Yes, the West has been doing nothing for the past 20 years. We've bombed the **** out of them since 9/11. Spent trillions of dollars doing it. You can't kill an ideology that easily. Obviously these animals do not care about their lives or anyone elses, including their own supposed Muslim brothers.

There will be no end in sight and no one, not even the Chosen One can stop it. Murdering their families does nothing but gain them sympathy.

If you can hurt their funding and their ability to recruit over the Internet that's a start. Otherwise you have to infiltrate their groups and continue to thwart future attacks. Something the US has done pretty well thus far.

Europe is an easy target simply because of geography. The US would be having these issues if we were closer.

Interesting to think how much different things might be if Hussein was still in Iraq instead of theQ US.

News flash hoss, bringing them here ain't the answer. It isn't going to make them stop hating us for precisely the reason you mentioned. We have tried to wage war by winning hearts and minds, that's not how you win a war, it's how you prolong one.
You think Islam is the first ideology the US has faced, lol, it's simply the latest. To defeat it you must put the fear of God into it, make it fear the sight of an angry US.

These people arent being funneled money, they rented a van and used knives.
We aren't going to win playing defense, responding to attacks, now you want to cut internet ability, for whom? Everyone or just Muslims, careful, you sound like Trump.

Instead of focusing on Hussein, you should be thinking about kaddafi, that's the **** hole now.

 

[warrior-cat]

Yes, the West has been doing nothing for the past 20 years. We've bombed the **** out of them since 9/11. Spent trillions of dollars doing it. You can't kill an ideology that easily. Obviously these animals do not care about their lives or anyone elses, including their own supposed Muslim brothers.

There will be no end in sight and no one, not even the Chosen One can stop it. Murdering their families does nothing but gain them sympathy.

If you can hurt their funding and their ability to recruit over the Internet that's a start. Otherwise you have to infiltrate their groups and continue to thwart future attacks. Something the US has done pretty well thus far.

Europe is an easy target simply because of geography. The US would be having these issues if we were closer.

Interesting to think how much different things might be if Hussein was still in Iraq instead of the US.

Europe is a target for geography and immigration policies. The more you let in the more chances you are going to get hit.

 

[fuzz77]

It's a freakin shame that the only person taking this crap seriously is being hamstrung by a few pos judges who argue intent instead of actually evaluating law.

Name one terrorist attack that the ban would have prevented?

Every attack in the US has been by people actually born in the US. The attacks in Europe have been by people born in Europe. Preventing people from travel would have had zero affect on the terrorist acts to date.

 

[Bill Derington]

Name one terrorist attack that the ban would have prevented?

Every attack in the US has been by people actually born in the US. The attacks in Europe have been by people born in Europe. Preventing people from travel would have had zero affect on the terrorist acts to date.

So you want to wait till an attack happens and then react to it? We've been doing that the past 40 years, it isn't working.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Name one terrorist attack that the ban would have prevented?

Every attack in the US has been by people actually born in the US. The attacks in Europe have been by people born in Europe. Preventing people from travel would have had zero affect on the terrorist acts to date.

The parents of the Manchester bombing were Libyan. The dad is linked to Al-Qaeda. A ban of some sort in the past most definitely could have had an impact in prevention. The parents being born in Libya allowed the sons to travel to and from w/out many questions.

A ban could absolutely prevent future attacks...not all, but any stopped is a positive for me.

 

[TransyCat09]

Every attack in the US has been by people actually born in the US.

This can't mean what I think it means

 

[thebluestripes]

Name one terrorist attack that the ban would have prevented?

Every attack in the US has been by people actually born in the US. The attacks in Europe have been by people born in Europe. Preventing people from travel would have had zero affect on the terrorist acts to date.

The ban is about helping prevent future terror attacks,
so of course it wouldn't have stopped past attacks.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I had no idea all the 9/11 hijackers were actually born in the US. Or the Boston Marathon Bombers.

 

[TransyCat09]

I had no idea all the 9/11 hijackers were actually born in the US. Or the Boston Marathon Bombers.

I mean ... I was thinking, "fuzz is an idiot, but surely he doesn't think 9/11 was committed by Americans."

 

[Bill Cosby]

I mean ... I was thinking, "fuzz is an idiot, but surely he doesn't think 9/11 was committed by Americans."

I'd imagine fuzz will be going on another vacation after that post, but rqarnold will be along shortly to take the reins.

 

[Chuckinden]

Bring our people home.

Get the ban passed.

Let the world deal with their issues.

If it was only that simple.....

 

[Deeeefense]

Let's cut out the hate speech please. OK to continue on topic.

 

[fuzz77]

News flash hoss, bringing them here ain't the answer. It isn't going to make them stop hating us for precisely the reason you mentioned. We have tried to wage war by winning hearts and minds, that's not how you win a war, it's how you prolong one.
You think Islam is the first ideology the US has faced, lol, it's simply the latest. To defeat it you must put the fear of God into it, make it fear the sight of an angry US.

These people are being funneled money, they rented a van and used knives.
We aren't going to win playing defense, responding to attacks, now you want to cut internet ability, for whom? Everyone or just Muslims, careful, you sound like Trump.

Instead of focusing on Hussein, you should be thinking about kaddafi, that's the **** hole now.

How's that worked out for Israel?

As has been stated by others...there is no deterrent to people who are willing to kill themselves in order to kill others.

You have the same mindset as those who think the answer to crime is throwing more people in prison. Treating people like animals will only result in those people acting like animals. Treating all Muslims like terrorist will only result in more Muslims willing to act like terrorist.

ISIS isn't a nation with leadership, it's an ideology. Those who spread that ideology can easily blend into populations and spread their ideas via the internet to anyone, anywhere in the world. Randomly killing innocent people because you think that there might be one or more guilty within the vicinity is ludicrous.

Again you rationalize that they fear death yet they kill themselves all the time. We have killed 1000's over the last 16 years and it has done nothing but to deepen the radicalization. How long will you do the same thing over and over with the same result before you realize what you're doing won't produce a different result?

 

[starchief]

Let's cut out the hate speech please. OK to continue on topic.

Actually, Dee, it's been relatively mild so far (except for the "kill the wife and kids" brief stepping off the path).

 

[fuzz77]

The ban is about helping prevent future terror attacks,
so of course it wouldn't have stopped past attacks.

So your idea would be to permanently ban travel from this countries until the end of time? I mean it will be 20-30 years before those you stopped today will produce children that will commit these future crimes.

 

[Bill Cosby]

ISIS isn't a nation with leadership, it's an ideology. Those who spread that ideology can easily blend into populations

Says the guy who's 100% against limiting travel from terrorist havens until strict screening measure can be put in place.

 

[fuzz77]

I mean ... I was thinking, "fuzz is an idiot, but surely he doesn't think 9/11 was committed by Americans."

Is Saudi Arabia on the travel ban list? No. 15 of the 9/11 hijackers.
Is Lebanon on the list? No. 1 of the 9/11 hijackers.
Are the UAE on the list? No. 2 of the 9/11 hijackers.
Is Egypt on the list? No. 1 of the 9/11 hijackers.

So the travel ban would have stopped exactly zero of the 9/11 perpetrators. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Any of those guys born in the US like you claimed?

 

[starchief]

How's that worked out for Israel?

As has been stated by others...there is no deterrent to people who are willing to kill themselves in order to kill others.

You have the same mindset as those who think the answer to crime is throwing more people in prison. Treating people like animals will only result in those people acting like animals. Treating all Muslims like terrorist will only result in more Muslims willing to act like terrorist.

ISIS isn't a nation with leadership, it's an ideology. Those who spread that ideology can easily blend into populations and spread their ideas via the internet to anyone, anywhere in the world. Randomly killing innocent people because you think that there might be one or more guilty within the vicinity is ludicrous.

Again you rationalize that they fear death yet they kill themselves all the time. We have killed 1000's over the last 16 years and it has done nothing but to deepen the radicalization. How long will you do the same thing over and over with the same result before you realize what you're doing won't produce a different result?

Considering their situation (8.5 million Israelis surrounded by 330 million Arabs who hate them and want them dead) the amount of terrorism they experience is relatively small (mostly stabbings and rock throwing.)

This is mostly because they fear the retaliation that they know will fall upon them and their family for terrorist acts they commit - ie, the family home bulldozed down, etc.) I am well aware they don't fear death for themselves but many would pause when they think about the suffering they would bring on their family.

 

[fuzz77]

Says the guy who's 100% against limiting travel from terrorist havens until strict screening measure can be put in place.

Bill, how long does it take to devise "strict screening measures"? That could have been done long ago. Come on. You and I could get together for a couple of days and put that plan in place.

 

[fuzz77]

Any of those guys born in the US like you claimed?

You got me there Bill.
So now answer what difference the travel ban would have had on that group? 15 of 19 from Saudi Arabia and it ain't on the list and you know damn well will never be.

 

[TransyCat09]

You got me there Bill.
So now answer what difference the travel ban would have had on that group? 15 of 19 from Saudi Arabia and it ain't on the list and you know damn well will never be.

What fuzz really meant was:

"I'm an idiot who either, 1) didn't know the 9/11 hijackers were foreign born or 2) forgot 9/11 even happened, but let me continue to condescend to you and others who are clearly much better informed than me."

 

[fuzz77]

This is mostly because they fear the retaliation that they know will fall upon them and their family for terrorist acts they commit - ie, the family home bulldozed down, etc.)

Provide evidence this is true.

There are nearly daily attacks in Israel. They are simply so common they no longer rate as news unless they are large scale attacks.

 

[fuzz77]

What fuzz really meant was:

"I'm an idiot who either, 1) didn't know the 9/11 hijackers were foreign born or 2) forgot 9/11 even happened, but let me continue to condescend to you and others who are clearly much better informed than me."

What Transy really meant was:

"I'm an idiot who forgot that the 9/11 attackers were all from nations not affected by the travel ban nor are they subject to any military bombings. But I still will make smart *** remarks because that's all I got."

 

[starchief]

Provide evidence this is true.

There are nearly daily attacks in Israel. They are simply so common they no longer rate as news unless they are large scale attacks.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel#2016

Number of Fatalities
From the Oslo Accords (Sept. 1993) until September 2000 - nearly 300 Israelis were killed in attacks.

During the Palestinian Al-Aqsa Intifada (Sept. 2000 - Dec. 2005) another 1,100 Israelis were killed.

Since December 2005, Palestinian terrorist attacks have claimed at least another 203 Israeli lives.

According to data compiled by the Israeli Shin Bet Security Agency, 2015 was the deadliest year for terrorism since 2008. Twenty-eight people were killed in terror attacks on Israel during 2015: two foreigners, one Palestinian, three members of Israeli security services, and twenty-two civilians.


According to the data in the above link there have been six victims of terrorism in Israel so far in 2017 - fewer victims than on the London Bridge alone.

There were 16 victims in 2016.

As I stated, terrorism in Israel is relatively little - and that is with 20.7% of its population being Arabs who openly hate Israel.

Fear of the certain retaliation that would fall on themselves and their families, to me, is the only common sense logical explanation for this.

There is no winning of hearts and minds with Muslims - and Israel knows this. The West has not learned this yet but they will, possibly too late.

 

[TransyCat09]

Please show where I posted in favor of the travel ban. Also show me where I said or implied the 9/11 hijackers were from countries affected by the travel ban. Or that I made any statement other than pointing out that you, fuzz/rqarnold, THOUGHT 9/11 WAS COMMITTED BY US CITIZENS. That was my only statement on the subject.

Don't reply to me again until you post this information. When you don't find it, admit that you either can't hold two arguments at once due to your low IQ, or that you made it up because you don't want people remembering that you are a liar and THOUGHT 9/11 WAS COMMITTED BY US CITIZENS.

 

[Bill Derington]

How's that worked out for Israel?

As has been stated by others...there is no deterrent to people who are willing to kill themselves in order to kill others.

You have the same mindset as those who think the answer to crime is throwing more people in prison. Treating people like animals will only result in those people acting like animals. Treating all Muslims like terrorist will only result in more Muslims willing to act like terrorist.

ISIS isn't a nation with leadership, it's an ideology. Those who spread that ideology can easily blend into populations and spread their ideas via the internet to anyone, anywhere in the world. Randomly killing innocent people because you think that there might be one or more guilty within the vicinity is ludicrous.

Again you rationalize that they fear death yet they kill themselves all the time. We have killed 1000's over the last 16 years and it has done nothing but to deepen the radicalization. How long will you do the same thing over and over with the same result before you realize what you're doing won't produce a different result?

No, I specifically wrote you can't stop someone that isn't afraid of dying. Simply killing the attackers won't stop it, people other than the radicals are supporting them, family, friends. If members of their immediate circle were opposing them it wouldn't continue to happen over and over and over.

You have to make them fear if they attack the response will make their loved ones suffer. It's how wars have always been won. The will to fight must be destroyed.
The world doesn't live in the nice little prepackaged comfortable life we do, you need to understand that.

The time will come when you realize what needs to be done in order to maintain a free and open state. How many innocent people are you willing to accept dying because you won't do what needs to be done?
You're willing to allow our liberty to be taken from us.

 

[warrior-cat]

Name one terrorist attack that the ban would have prevented?

Every attack in the US has been by people actually born in the US. The attacks in Europe have been by people born in Europe. Preventing people from travel would have had zero affect on the terrorist acts to date.

No proof of that zero effect either. You have no idea of who you are letting in. Just a terrible take.

 

[warrior-cat]

Is Saudi Arabia on the travel ban list? No. 15 of the 9/11 hijackers.
Is Lebanon on the list? No. 1 of the 9/11 hijackers.
Are the UAE on the list? No. 2 of the 9/11 hijackers.
Is Egypt on the list? No. 1 of the 9/11 hijackers.

So the travel ban would have stopped exactly zero of the 9/11 perpetrators. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

The ban countries cite countries who have had terrorist that come from that country striking other places. I suppose you want to wait until they hit us to do anything. Reactive not proactive.

 

[warrior-cat]

Considering their situation (8.5 million Israelis surrounded by 330 million Arabs who hate them and want them dead) the amount of terrorism they experience is relatively small (mostly stabbings and rock throwing.)

This is mostly because they fear the retaliation that they know will fall upon them and their family for terrorist acts they commit - ie, the family home bulldozed down, etc.) I am well aware they don't fear death for themselves but many would pause when they think about the suffering they would bring on their family.

High Jacking's on their planes don't happen anymore. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[fuzz77]

Please show where I posted in favor of the travel ban. Also show me where I said or implied the 9/11 hijackers were from countries affected by the travel ban. Or that I made any statement other than pointing out that you, fuzz/rqarnold, THOUGHT 9/11 WAS COMMITTED BY US CITIZENS. That was my only statement on the subject.

Don't reply to me again until you post this information. When you don't find it, admit that you either can't hold two arguments at once due to your low IQ, or that you made it up because you don't want people remembering that you are a liar and THOUGHT 9/11 WAS COMMITTED BY US CITIZENS.

Don't reply to you again or what?
You're a real tough guy, aren't you.

9/11 pre-dates ISIS so within a discussion of ISIS inspired terrorism, 9/11 doesn't really fit that bill. 9/11 more inspired ISIS than the other way around. But again, the discussion and the comment to which I replied; "It's a freakin shame that the only person taking this crap seriously is being hamstrung by a few pos judges who argue intent instead of actually evaluating law." was clearly addressing the travel ban.

 

[warrior-cat]

You got me there Bill.
So now answer what difference the travel ban would have had on that group? 15 of 19 from Saudi Arabia and it ain't on the list and you know damn well will never be.

It may have deterred them. If they knew we were watching others, who knows?

 

[JumperJack]

Wait, is someone really saying murder people's children and wives?

Provide evidence this is true.

There are nearly daily attacks in Israel. They are simply so common they no longer rate as news unless they are large scale attacks.

Is that the normalcy you want to inflict on my kids by bringing a hateful ideology here?

 

[fuzz77]

The ban countries site countries who have had terrorist that come from that country striking other places. I suppose you want to wait until they hit us to do anything. Reactive not proactive.

So Saudi Arabia isn't on that list?
More terrorist have come from Saudi Arabia and are funded through Saudi sources than anywhere else. The brand of Islam that inspires ISIS and the other radical Islamist comes from Saudi.
Wouldn't any real proactive measure start at the root of the problem?

 

[TransyCat09]

Don't reply to you again or what?
You're a real tough guy, aren't you.

9/11 pre-dates ISIS so within a discussion of ISIS inspired terrorism, 9/11 doesn't really fit that bill. 9/11 more inspired ISIS than the other way around. But again, the discussion and the comment to which I replied; "It's a freakin shame that the only person taking this crap seriously is being hamstrung by a few pos judges who argue intent instead of actually evaluating law." was clearly addressing the travel ban.

If shifting the goalposts helps you sleep at night, go for it. Anyone else with a couple firing synapses reading this thread can easily tell you either THOUGHT 9/11 WAS COMMITTED BY US CITIZENS or tried to create a strawman when you realized you had made a mistake. Stop letting your ego bully you around; your self worth is not defined by how stupid you look on a message board. Just admit that you're wrong and grow from this experience

 

[fuzz77]

Is that the normalcy you want to inflict on my kids by bringing a hateful ideology here?

I'd say hating a group of people for the actions of a small % of that group is a pretty hateful ideology in itself.
There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, 7 million in the US. What percentage of those people are terrorist?

Should we have hated Italians for the actions of those involved with the Italian Mafia?

 

[JumperJack]

Name one terrorist attack that the ban would have prevented?

Every attack in the US has been by people actually born in the US. The attacks in Europe have been by people born in Europe. Preventing people from travel would have had zero affect on the terrorist acts to date.

You have the made the strongest and most logical argument against Muslim immigration to the West that we've seen in a while. Congrats!

 

[CatsFanGG24]

So Saudi Arabia isn't on that list?
More terrorist have come from Saudi Arabia and are funded through Saudi sources than anywhere else. The brand of Islam that inspires ISIS and the other radical Islamist comes from Saudi.
Wouldn't any real proactive measure start at the root of the problem?

Warrior was wrong. But I think you know SA wasn't on the list because it wasn't originally named by the Obama Admin and they were trying to pass the EO as quickly as possible.

I agree with you though, SA has been a major problem as far as people visiting and then returning to US with bad intentions.