The way I see it is, if some old lady has a problem with YOUR masturbating, they should sit somewhere else on the bus.If he has a low level of intelligence, where does that leave me?
Another great article on the fictional “Penn State Scandal”
- Thread starter Open Mind 1
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For the record:
- I think JS had boundary issues and possibly worse. Maybe much worse.
- I think MM was uncomfortable with what he saw but he didn't see anything sexual.
- I think MM expressed his concerns to Joe and C/S but I don't think he told them anything explicit. This is why they didn't respond more aggressively.
- I absolutely don't believe Dottie and Family ignored screams and allowed JS to rape boys in the basement.
- I think the BOD threw Joe + S/C/S under the bus hoping everything would then go away. They didn't want their own involvement with TSM to be questioned.
- I think some of the people PSU paid lied and materially embellished their stories after Shubin told them they could make $millions.
- That doesn't mean they all lied or that JS was completely innocent.
I know, not think or believe, that most of those paid by PSU did not have their stories vetted to any extent, if at all. I do not know how that connects to the Baboon's guilt or innocence.
Parlato is a piece of garbage. He's a profiteer and has no interest in Sandusky's guilt or innocence. The worst thing that could happen to him is have the heaven's open and the Divine Voice proclaim Jerry's innocence. He'd have to find a new set of sheep.
The above plus, JS didn't get a fair trial. Let's see how things look in the light of day. Then let the chips fall where they may.
That also sums up my own views on the whole mess pretty well.
One of the many tragedies and travesties in this debacle is that things are so damn muddled that we’ll never know even a fraction of the truth at this point. That’s exacerbated by the passage of time, the fading of memories, and the countless distortions and sensationalization by the media and others over the years.
It’s incredibly sad, and so unfair to so many parties.
@BobPSU92 knows his tongue is not that long.
This has been my belief throughout the whole thing. I don’t know if he’s innocent, or guilty, and if guilty what he’s guilty of, BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH EMBELLISHMENT AND HIS LEGAL TEAM DID NO REAL LAWYERING. This, to me, is a huge miscarriage of justice. Not that an innocent man is in jail, or a guilty man wasn’t hammered enough. It’s that the legal system seems to not have operated the way it should have.
My yearning to see this thing done right has everything to do with wanting to regain faith in the legal system.
But try to have that adult conversation around here and I’m a pedophile supporter or a child rapist sympathizer. It’s like trying to tell my kid something and he sticks his fingers in his ears and yells “LALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU”….
And of course all of this done while the BOT just rolled over and played dead unknowingly, or knowingly to line the pockets of their friends…..
Tell you what, see all the stories that have happened in other schools since 2011, I can tell you that PSU BOT showed exactly how NOT to do this….
Some particularly sad things:
- Eschbach lied about what MM told her in the grand jury presentment and got away with it.
- The PSU BOT didn't defend the university (like Michigan State, Ohio State, etc).
- IIRC Curley, Shultz, and Spanier were charged with a crime based on a law that wasn't in effect at the time.
You believe Magic Mike in this instance? Don't know either way, but McQueary's credibility is less than zero.
Agreed. Our legal system, with the encouragement of the media, is moving away from due process and towards public lynchings.
I agree that McQ has little if any credibility - he was not trusted on the staff by many of the assistants and players. However, I think he had no choice except to agree to be a witness based on the 'stuff' they had on him (gambling, photos). Through all that, he was loyal to JVP and did not want to see him or his reputation harmed. When he read the embellished GJ presentation, I think he realized that Joe could look bad, and wanted to clear the record. So, yes, I believe what he wrote to Eschbach (sp) in his note about her embellishment is him being honest and caring about what happened to Joe and others.
Fwiw, just my opinion, but based on some conversations I've had with those close to it.
At some point I would think McQueary will speak about this whole thing. Over ten years removed from it he might be willing to talk.
What gets me maybe more than anything about the prosecution of C/S/S is that everyone knew that Curley went to Rakovitz, the CEO of TSM and a mandated reporter, with what McQ had told him. Rakovitz brushed it off as nothing ('you're crazy') and did not investigate/report as he was mandated to do. So, not only was there no cover-up, there was a verified report made - probably not to the most desired authority, but to someone who should have either taken on that responsibility or re-directed Curley to the right agency.
And then, in yet another bizarro-world happening in all this, Rakovitz testified in the Spanier trial that he was a proper reporting authority, in verifying that Central Mtn. School District reported their JS encounter to him. No one ever questioned why that was a valid report, but Curley's was not. All the info (McQ) and feedback (the '98 report, Rakovitz) they got was that there was nothing to this. I am certain they truly did not know what they were dealing with, and the people who they trusted failed them. And that carries over to JVP as well.
As Curley said post-trial, he wished they had asked more questions. But in real time, they and just about everyone else just could not comprehend what may have been actually happening.
I hear ya, and I wish he would, but I would not trust him to be 100% truthful even if he did. He would open himself up to other people exposing some ugly stuff about him from his time on staff. And even if truthful enough to again try to exonerate JVP, as he tried to previously way back when (to deaf ears), I'm sure the reaction would be so mixed and ultimately distasteful that people would just wish it away and do nothing.
Tend to agree with Bob that people will discount everything Magic Mike says if he ever comes clean. That said, it's never going to happen.
Well, there were attempts made to clarify and correct the record - the Thornburgh, et. al. report made to counter Freeh's baseless conclusions, the Alumni Trustees finding all sorts of evidence to counter Freeh's conclusions as they gained access to that committee's notes, etc., outside journalists who questioned it all (some for the wrong purposes, some out of intellectual curiosity), and on. The alumni found research/notes from the Freeh Group dated as late as April or May of 2012 stating they had no evidence of any coverup or wrong doing by PSU ICA. That's why the report was just a basic book report, and the conclusions Freeh stated publicly had no basis of support from the report itself.
Nothing stuck or made news beyond a couple days. And still we have people - PSU fans - on here who believe Freeh's conclusions, Baldwin's ethics, the BOT's judgment, etc. Unbelievable.
We also cannot forget, as many have pointed out repeatedly, the depth of TSM involvement by a number of PSU's BOT members, and the haste with which TSM's files were shredded as soon as the story broke. That, imo, is where a cover-up happened, and certainly not within PSU ICA.
And on and on... Baldwin's disingenuous, lack of integrity through the whole thing, keeping subpoenas from Spanier and the BOT, giving her legal advice that this was going away, etc., and her official reprimand as a result. So, the info to correct the record is out there. It's just that the people who care about that have no power to overcome the folks with the power to do the right thing but choose not to, for selfish reasons.
The only thing MCQ has done in the last 15 years, was prove just how pathological he is. In numerous areas: gambling, lying, narcissism…..
Has mcqueary blown through his millions yet? If so, he will probably start talking in the hopes of getting a book deal or a documentary on Netflix. Bet on it. 
TSM failed long before Curley's report to Rakovitz. It was grossly irresponsible for them to allow JS or any other agent to have one on one contact with at risk children.
I agree it's insane that C/S/S were indicted but not Rakovitz (or Dranov).
Maybe that's why Curley hasn't said more. He doesn't think anyone will believe him.
Having one on one contact is part of the job in those types of agencies. Big Brothers Big Sisters does this, I’ve worked in agencies that do it. The problem is not so much the one on one contact but the unfathomable one on one showering with the children.
For anyone interested in the non-JS side of this, and on the impact of the people wrongly caught up in the whole sordid thing, Graham Spanier's book In The Lions Den is an excellent read. The honesty and detail in it are riveting, imo. It's infuriating and frustrating, and I couldn't put it down. I ran into Spanier one time shortly after reading it a couple years ago (I've met him through mutual friends, don't know him) and told him that 'I hated the book but loved it'. He smiled and said he knew exactly what I meant.
TC once told me that even he learned a few things from the book - a few details in it cleared up his own wondering and confusion as to why some things happened.
As I've said many times on here, I've known Tim for 45 or more years, and I know Gary, and I believe them both to be as good of people as anyone can hope to know. To think that either of them did anything deliberately wrong is nonsense.
TC once told me that even he learned a few things from the book - a few details in it cleared up his own wondering and confusion as to why some things happened.
As I've said many times on here, I've known Tim for 45 or more years, and I know Gary, and I believe them both to be as good of people as anyone can hope to know. To think that either of them did anything deliberately wrong is nonsense.
That's not a good reason. McQueary won't say anything more because he's a coward and a scumbag.
Well, anyone who knows him or has met him would believe him. I believe his faith in the legal/justice system was destroyed by not only the original indictment, but by the judge blindsiding them at the last minute and discarding the 'no jail time' agreement they made under public and Shapiro pressure. If they can find a way to do all that to those 3 people, I'm not sure what chance anyone has if the right (wrong) people want to target them.
Don't know Curley, Schultz, Dranov, or McQueary pere. Met Joe and Spanier once (in the latter case it was hate at first sight). Find it impossible to believe that six people heard accounts of child sexual abuse and none thought to report it to the authorities. None of the McQueary story adds up.
I think (imo) that's where the Rakovitz piece comes into play and is a key part of why this whole McQ report went south...
C/S didn't know what to do with what McQ told them about JS being in the shower, as the concern over csa didn't come up. So, going to Rakovitz and asking his expert opinion on what he thought, and getting a brushoff in reply, made them think there was no csa involved.
I don't know about Big Brothers or how they vet their agents. I just know that disadvantaged kids could easily make a false claim and it would become their word against the accused. It's nice to offer an outlet for these kids but one on one with no other oversight seems irresponsible IMO. Are you saying that all of TSM kids went off one on one with workers or volunteers?
I find it impossible to believe that MM wouldn't tell his dad or Dranov about sexual abuse but he then spilled his guts to C/S/Joe. Then apparently didn't tell his family what he witnessed after reporting to C/S either.
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I have no idea specifically what TSM did. I do know that working in an agency like that I often took children out in the community to participate in activities. There were kids I would take to a gym and shoot hoops with. There were other kids I would take to a local youth center and play ping pong, pool, board games with. It’s part of the job. But at absolutely no point would I ever have put myself in a position to be naked with them. Even if I had to use a public restroom, I would be sure not to be in there at the same time as the client. Showering alone with them is so far beyond the realm of reasonable that it’s not believable for it to have been innocent.
That's where we disagree a bit. I showered with my coach and I showered with my scout leader. My wife tells me that her gym teacher made the girls open their towels when they got out of the shower because she wanted to make sure they got wet. Those types of things were common back then. I'm guessing your a bit younger.
That said, I DO NOT believe JS is completely innocent. The 1998 incident should have been a wake up call but he didn't take the hint.
If I may, "back then" the showers with adults were generally with a group and not after hours.
In 2001, why did Sandusky have to bring the kid onto the PSU campus to shower? I've not read of any indication that the activity in which they were engaged took place on campus. Why didn't he simply take the kid home?
You showered alone with your coach and scout leader and he initiated physical contact with you while doing so? If not, we’re not talking about the same things.
Yes, "back then" the showers were generally with a group but not always. My driver's ed teacher was also football coach and if we got finished driving early we'd throw the football around then take a quick shower. I'm also sure I was alone in the shower with my Boy Scout leader a time or two. But yes it was typically a group.
I read several times that JS would work out with the boys and sometimes wrestle before taking a shower. I'm not defending JS. I'm just telling you what I've read.