Seems like they could do training flights somewhere the trainees wouldn’t fly into the path of a commercial aircraft over a major U.S. city.
Another plane collision. This time in Arizona involving a parked jet this time
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Everything I’ve read from people who seem like they would know points to the helicopter pilot messing up unfortunately.
He doesn’t have a video up yet but there is a YouTuber named Pilot Debrief who does a great job breaking down what went wrong in crashes. He typically waits until the final reports come out, but I’m guessing he puts something out soon in this case. Really interested in hearing his take, former military pilot and seems to be as by the book as it gets.
He doesn’t have a video up yet but there is a YouTuber named Pilot Debrief who does a great job breaking down what went wrong in crashes. He typically waits until the final reports come out, but I’m guessing he puts something out soon in this case. Really interested in hearing his take, former military pilot and seems to be as by the book as it gets.
This 100%. There’s zero chance the helicopter pilot mistakenly thought the departing plane was the traffic they were alerted to.
I’ve listened to the radio transmission from ATC. The first alert was “JA-25, traffic is just south of the Woodrow bridge, a CRJ, is 1,200 feet for runway 33”.
Then about 7 seconds later the controller clears AA1630(listening to the full recording, this is the last plane to depart before the crash so it has to be the departing plane in the picture) to lineup and wait on runway 1 and notifies that there is a CRJ(plane involved in crash) on a 6 mile final for 33. He is notifying him of this so they will be ready to take off once cleared as runway 1 and runway 33 are intersecting runways.
37 seconds later the controller clears AA1630 for takeoff on runway 1 no delay and notifies him that the CRJ is now on a 3 mile final for runway 33.
Then 52 seconds after the controller asks again if the helicopter has the CRJ in sight. Then tells the helicopter to pass behind the CRJ. I can’t tell you what the pilot of the helicopter said because for some reason on this recording I listened to, you cannot hear the helicopters transmissions. So don’t hear an answer back.
Then 20 seconds later you hear the audible gasps of the controllers in the background as they see the collision happen.
So to recap. The helicopter was first notified of the CRJ before the departing plane even took off. So there’s no way they mistook the departing plane in the picture as the alerted traffic since they weren’t even in the air yet. By the time they were asked again if they had the traffic in sight, the departing plane would have been basically at their 5 o’clock a mile or more away. There’s no way they would have been searching for traffic that far to their right.
To be sure, I did not insinuate anything in this thread. Nor did I drag a murdered judge’s name through the mud with Cole accusations.
I would think that you’d want to practice in heavily trafficked areas where your bases are so things like this do not happen.
DC is a hub of military and commercial air traffic.
Oh I lived in Old Town for several years, so we flew in/out of Reagan all the time.
To be fair, Hegseth said that this was a routine annual certification practice, not necessarily straight training. Doesn’t sound like the folks on the helicopter were new to this route/scenario.
What are you saying is the poor news source? Trump himself, or are you saying that Trump was misquoted by Fox?
Am making my way through the comments so if this has already been answered, sorry...
There are "several" military helicopter units that support the country in this area.... flying down the Potomac is very customary, and I'm sure those guys have made that flight many, many times. (its a very restricted airspace and requires a lot of training just to enter).
Procedures will be scrutinized, and maybe something will be changed as this was very tragic, but it's nothing more than a chain of errors which caused this tragedy -- not a "why are they flying there to begin with".
Would bet my last nickle that both airplanes had traffic avoidance technology.... makes this even harder to accept....
Am agreeing with you high-hour pilots on everything.... but can't get over the fact that both aircraft probably had traffic avoidance technology. So whereas the helicopter was MOST responsible for this, the landing aircraft could have initiated a go-around as well...
In this case even if the landing jet was 98% procedure-perfect, everyone on his plane lost....
Also, makes me think that the helicopter was VFR which suggests a little different type of "spacing" between the two by ATC.
Someone help me here?
Can’t speak to the systems on the Blackhawk. The CRJ obviously has a TCAS, but the RA is inhibited at low altitudes. So they would have seen the target, but no altitude on it, and no alert from the TCAS. There is constant helicopter traffic in that area, so a low flying target on TCAS is an every approach event almost.
The question now is why was the Blackhawk so high? That corridor is limited to 200’ and below, but they were cruising over 300’. So he either had clearance or made a huge mistake. Either way, that question will be answered very soon.
Helicopter was VFR, but above the corridor. They were also doing NVG training, which adds an extra layer to this.
T-Cass usually doesn't work that close to the ground as the ground produces too many targets. Anyway this was under VFR conditions and the chopper pilot acknowledged having visual on incoming traffic, so it doesn't really matter, especially since they had night vision equipment. IMO either the chopper pilot forgot AA1630 had been re-rerouted for 33 instead of 1 which took him further to the East, or he thought he was further south than he was where he could fly underneath the inbound.
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Evidently one of the victims was a 33 year old woman from Cincinnati. January 29th was her birthday.
Oh no. I watched those flight patterns daily for years as we walked our dogs and wondered around Old Town. And then flew a lot out of/into Reagan. That’s all.
"It was a very experienced group," said Jonathan Koziol, a retired Army chief warrant officer with more than 30 years experience in flying Army helicopters. Koziol has been attached to the Unified Command Post created at Reagan National Airport to coordinate efforts following the deadly collision.
Koziol, confirmed to reporters on a conference call that the male instructor pilot had more than 1,000 hours of flight time, the female pilot who was commanding the flight at the time had more than 500 hours of flight time, and the crew chief was also said to have hundreds of hours of flight time.
Koziol, confirmed to reporters on a conference call that the male instructor pilot had more than 1,000 hours of flight time, the female pilot who was commanding the flight at the time had more than 500 hours of flight time, and the crew chief was also said to have hundreds of hours of flight time.
The skater who was told his dog could not board in Kansas, so he frustratedly decided to drive the 14 hours, must be having philosophical discussions with himself contemplating many things today. The “I was supposed to be on that plane” struggle is probably unavoidable.
An updated story says that skater was supposed to be booked to ATL, not DCA but couldn’t fly because of his dog’s size. Still unnerving though.
Did not see that. I believe the skating duo husband and wife sent the son the day before. Is that still part of the narrative?
Terrible all around. Someone messed up really bad. If my family were on that plane and I would be furious and would probably fly to DC to demand answers. Hard to determine what is true but I heard audio of the tower repeatedly telling the chopper to turn around and return to base. I've heard it's hard to see at night with all the city lights. If that is true why is a helicopter flying a training mission through runway space in an urban area like that?
I am reading (no personal knowledge) that on most night vision Blackhawk flights there for safety reasons are two crew chiefs and this one was missing a crew chief on the left side.
It sounds like the Blackhawk pilot was incredibly lax and possibly distracted in flight. Fast and loose with his path and altitude. Possibly some chatter between the soldiers. That would seem to be the most likely reason why it was off path and too high.
Not sure how the military or the new Defense Secretary handles this, but I would assume some heads will roll. Whole lot of lawsuits are being readied against the Army (likely most culpable), the airport (slightly culpable ) and maybe American Airlines (least culpable but pick pockets). I'm sure the victims' families have already been peppered with lawyers wanting a piece of this litigation.
Just very sad and completely preventable.
Not sure how the military or the new Defense Secretary handles this, but I would assume some heads will roll. Whole lot of lawsuits are being readied against the Army (likely most culpable), the airport (slightly culpable ) and maybe American Airlines (least culpable but pick pockets). I'm sure the victims' families have already been peppered with lawyers wanting a piece of this litigation.
Just very sad and completely preventable.
It’s absurd that any kind of training like that was being conducted in that area. Especially after reading about how easy it would be to confuse background lights with landing lights, etc. Especially after reading that all these people have said for years that this airport is super crowded anyway. And on and on.
Somebody at some point never questioned it?
It was reported the chopper broke altitude by 100 feet. That doesn't necessarily point to pilot error though, it could be debris in the static line or other reasons for the altimeter to read off a bit. At any rate the latest video I saw on the news shows the chopper flying right into the flight path of the CRJ apparently not even seeing it. There was a larger jet on approach that had brighter landing lights and could very well have been confused for the CRJ.
The Helo pilot would likely have seen 3 or 4 planes lined u down the Potomac coming into Reagan. But he would never be circling behind those airplanes at an altitude anywhere close to them. The ONLY way he’d need to be cautious of an airplane when flying southward down that East bank is if it’s a plane lining up to land on runway 33. It sounds like a very awful error by the Helo pilot. There’s just no other way he’d be told to hold course (south on east bank of river) and go behind the incoming plane. If a plane is landing on the main runway, it’s coming right down the river (center/west half or bank)) to land.