Any transfer candidates?
- Thread starter IdahoAlum
- Start date
I looked at https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Basketball/TransferPortalTop/
Beyond top-rated Emoni Bates, I see 3 guys who havent committed (out of their top 91).
Top rated of those is a guy named Pete Nance, ranked #24.
We have 11, listed by eligibility:
Senior
Verhoeven (RS, C19)
Junior
Audige (RS, C19)
Beran (C19)
Buie (C19)
Sophomore
Barnhizer
Berry (C19)
Nicholson (C19)
Roper
Simmons
Freshman
Hunger
Martinelli
The three juniors will all be graduating this year (Audige may have graduated already, he's going into year 5) so they'll likely be billed as seniors, but they all have eligibility through 2023-24.
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Thanks for laying out the roster for us @Styre -- if we are to improve on last year, a big "IF" indeed, where will the improvement come from? I don't see it. Losing Nance, Young, and Greer, while adding Verhoeven, Hunger, and Martinelli, doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Will Audige suddenly start making more shots? Will Buie finally be more consistent overall while converting more shots into points? Will Roper, Berry, Simmons, and other young guys step up their games significantly? Will Hunger be able to contribute as a true frosh? Damn, so many questions. If Collins gets anything more than 5 B1G wins, he would've done an amazing job.
I agreed with everything you wrote until that last sentence...
"If Collins gets anything more than 5 B1G wins, he would've done an amazing job."
I don't see why you would credit the coach automatically, setting the bar as low as "not terrible."
The fact is that Collins created this situation, so he gets primary blame for that.
It still looks like a talented roster of younger players to me, so unless Audige shoots better and plays smarter, he should see his minutes cut. My guess is Collins will play him 30 a night, regardless. Same with Beran who will be a fixture at "power forward." Maybe Beran will step up - I just don't see him as a leader.
I see "potential" improvement from Roper, Simmons and Barnhizer in particular.
The latter 2 have that "small forward" position available whenever they choose to claim it.
I expect Hunger and Martinelli to be decent, 15 minutes and 8 minutes a night, respectively.
Collins has a history of playing a favored newcomer every year.
Verhoeven is filler and below Big Ten average. Hopefully Nicholson can overcome his lack of previous game experience, but foul trouble is fairly likely, so Verhoeven and Hunger are going to be playing the 5 as well.
Buie will miss Greer, but hopefully Roper or possibly Berry can step up to help him in the backcourt.
Nance told Illinois coaches that he doesn’t want to play center. Wants to be a stretch four.
No opinionating here, have no illusion we are a landing spot for any of these dudes, for ESPN, the best left of the board are:
1) Pete Nance (#7 in top 100)
2) Courtney Ramey - G - Sr - Texas (#24)
3) Emoni Bates - F - Fr - Memphis (#29)
4) Jacob Grandison - F - Sr - Illinois (#51)
5) Emmanuel Akot - F - Sr - Boise State (#63)
6) Keyontae Johnson - F - Sr - Florida (#77)
7) David Jenkins Jr - G - Sr - Utah (#97)
B1G teams not landing a top #100
-Northwestern
-Purdue
-Iowa
-Michigan State
-Wisconsin (though they landed #102)
-Penn State (though they landed #107)
www.espn.com
1) Pete Nance (#7 in top 100)
2) Courtney Ramey - G - Sr - Texas (#24)
3) Emoni Bates - F - Fr - Memphis (#29)
4) Jacob Grandison - F - Sr - Illinois (#51)
5) Emmanuel Akot - F - Sr - Boise State (#63)
6) Keyontae Johnson - F - Sr - Florida (#77)
7) David Jenkins Jr - G - Sr - Utah (#97)
B1G teams not landing a top #100
-Northwestern
-Purdue
-Iowa
-Michigan State
-Wisconsin (though they landed #102)
-Penn State (though they landed #107)
Ranking men's college basketball's top transfers: Where has everyone landed?
As the new season approaches, the top men's college basketball transfers have committed to their new programs. Who has finally landed where?
www.espn.com
It appears that is where he will play next season. I thought it might be Kentucky because of the former UI assistants there.
I wish him well. I also hope Illinois made the right choice to not try to keep him. Illinois was 31-9 in BT play with him as a starter.
Grandison and Young. Who’d of thunk it.
re-visiting the lineup...
C - Verhoeven / Nicholson / Hunger
PF - Beran / Hunger / Martinelli
SF - Audige / Simmons / Barnhizer / Martinelli
SG - Roper / Berry / Audige
PG - Buie
Verhoeven is 6'9" 230 or so... Doesn't shoot from 3, doesn't shoot that much really. UTEP and Conference USA are not the Big Ten and his scoring and rebounding were both statistically slightly lower than Robbie Beran last year.
Hunger is 6'10", 255. Nicholson is 7' 1/2", 255.
I want to believe that Nicholson, Hunger and (to a lesser extent ) Martinelli can all step on the court and perform against Big Ten competition, because I don't think Verhoeven really can.
If its Verhoeven and Beran in the frontcourt, we will get dominated in the paint.
What will Collins do?
C - Verhoeven / Nicholson / Hunger
PF - Beran / Hunger / Martinelli
SF - Audige / Simmons / Barnhizer / Martinelli
SG - Roper / Berry / Audige
PG - Buie
Verhoeven is 6'9" 230 or so... Doesn't shoot from 3, doesn't shoot that much really. UTEP and Conference USA are not the Big Ten and his scoring and rebounding were both statistically slightly lower than Robbie Beran last year.
Hunger is 6'10", 255. Nicholson is 7' 1/2", 255.
I want to believe that Nicholson, Hunger and (to a lesser extent ) Martinelli can all step on the court and perform against Big Ten competition, because I don't think Verhoeven really can.
If its Verhoeven and Beran in the frontcourt, we will get dominated in the paint.
What will Collins do?
It seems we'll see a lot of Hunger. I wouldn't be surprised if he played the stretch five on offense, spreading the floor and hitting the three. I just hope that Collins figures out a way to utilize Nicholson effectively, I think he may the better player than Verhoeven. Maybe hark back to the days of Alex Olah. Not holding my breath though.
One thing I have noticed is that Collins has this bias / desire/ necessity to play a "newcomer" (be it a freshman or a transfer) fairly heavy minutes. In other words guys who didnt play at all for NU the prior year...
In 2021-22 freshman Julian Roper played 20.8 minutes per Big Ten game, 5th on the team.
In 2020-21 transfer Chase Audige played 29.2 minutes per Big ten game. (2nd on team)
In 2019-20 transfer Pat Spencer played 30.7 mins per Big Ten game (2nd on team) and Boo Buie, a freshman, 28 minutes , plus Ryan Young, a redshirt freshman at 25.5 minutes and Robbie Beran, a freshman, at 21.4 minutes.
In 2018-19 transfer AJ Turner played 28 minutes per Big Ten game.
In 2017-18 it was Anthony Gaines, who played 19.1 minutes per Big Ten game as a freshman, 6th on the team.
So this year the new faces are Verhoeven, Hunger and Martinelli. Unless Beran gets injured, Martinelli won't be playing 20 minutes a game.
So either Verhoeven and/or Hunger will play at least 20 minutes per game this year.
that is a very good question. I do recall seeing Barnhizer at the point last year. I know Audige is inadequate at that position but I don't think Collins believes that. It would be a big load for Roper or Berry, but they are the logical backups, I guess.
Is it really a Freshman thing, or is it more that those were the guys who showed up best in practices, or were specifically on the team because of a shortage at that position, and got floor time because of it?
Updated top #100 still to commit:
1) Pete Nance (#7 in top 100)
2) Emoni Bates - F - Fr - Memphis (#29) - buzz that he will land at Michigan
3) Emmanuel Akot - F - Sr - Boise State (#63) - NC State seems to be an almost done deal
4) Keyontae Johnson - F - Sr - Florida (#77)
1) Pete Nance (#7 in top 100)
2) Emoni Bates - F - Fr - Memphis (#29) - buzz that he will land at Michigan
3) Emmanuel Akot - F - Sr - Boise State (#63) - NC State seems to be an almost done deal
4) Keyontae Johnson - F - Sr - Florida (#77)
It could be. But I think we tend to be "re-building" nearly every year.
We bring in transfers and put them out there 25-30 minutes a night - Williams was more of an exception as a transfer who was an obvious bench player.
In other years, Collins also tends to give a guy like Falzon a ton of playing time right out of the chute. Same with Gaines who joined the team right after the NCAA appearance and took minutes from Isiah Brown.
It indicates to me that Collins tends to be dis-satisfied with the part-time players he already has and that (for the most part) they don't step up / develop from bench player to starter over the course of a couple years with the team.
Or to put it another way - if Collins doesn't play a new guy 15 minutes a game his first year, that player will rarely be a major contributor to the team.
None of that bodes well for a guy like Matt Nicholson, who sat on the bench for two seasons and has a transfer and a freshman both coming in as sparkly new objects for his coach to play with.
That seems pretty accurate to me. We certainly don't have the talent in depth to bring in guys and develop them for a few years before they see the court. We never have had in the years I've been actively watching the team.
The best case I can recall is probably Hearns, and I believe that was much more about his work ethic and personal dedication than anything from the staff.
Greer played 9 minutes a game as a freshman, then 8 as a soph, then 13 as a junior and finally 19 as a senior. Though he was effective this past season, he wasn't a starter. So that one's sort of borderline - he did have a role and improved his play.
Pardon played 16.6 minutes per game as a freshman who was almost redshirted. He stepped up to 30 minutes as a sophomore, so he supports the argument, which is....
"If a guy doesn't play 15 minutes for Collins his first year, he will rarely be a major contributor."
EagerFan mentioned Reggie Hearn, who played a mere 2 minutes per game as a freshman and sophomore, but stepped up to 26 minutes as a junior and then 33 as a senior. A good example, but that was all for Carmody.
It looks like Chris Collins has only had one player go from playing less than 12 minutes per game as a "first year" to playing more than 20 minutes per game in any subsequent season - and that guy was Gavin Skelly. Thats a strong bias against Barnhizer (7.0), Simmons (7.6) and Nicholson (1.7).
| Player | Freshman | Sophomore | Junior | Senior |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pete Nance | 13.1 | 24.3 | 27.9 | 28.6 |
| Ryan Young | RS | 25.7 | 18.9 | 17.1 |
| Robbie Beran | 21.4 | 20.1 | 23.0 | ? |
| Ryan Greer | 8.2 | 7.5 | 12.4 | 18.4 |
| Ty Berry | 13.8 | 20.5 | ||
| Boo Buie | 28.0 | 27.2 | 29.6 | |
| Anthony Gaines | 19.1 | 29.2 | 24.0 | 21.5 |
| Chase Audige | - | 29.2 | 28.0 | |
| Miller Kopp | 16.6 | 32.9 | 33.4 | left |
| Pat Spencer | - | - | - | 30.7 |
| AJ Turner | - | - | 28.0 | 26.8 |
| Dererk Pardon | 16.8 | 32.0 | 33.8 | 34.4 |
| Barret Benson | 6.8 | 7.5 | 9.3 | left |
| Ryan Taylor | - | - | - | 25.0 |
| Aaron Falzon | 26.3 | injured | 15.8 | 15.6 |
| Vic Law | 22.5 | 34.2 | 34.1 | 33.8 |
| Gavin Skelly | 5.4 | 11.4 | 16.7 | 21.6 |
| Isiah Brown | 15.7 | 11.7 | left | |
| Scotty Lindsey | 16.8 | 19.3 | 30.9 | 34.9 |
| Bryant McIntosh | 33.8 | 36.4 | 34.8 | 30.8 |
| Sanjay Lumpkin | 31.2 | 19.8 | 21.7 | 27.8 |
| Nate Taphorn | 6.9 | 13.4 | 9.4 | 12.6 |
Pete Nance - Milwaukee Bucks Forward - ESPN
View the profile of Milwaukee Bucks Forward Pete Nance on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.
www.espn.com
Pete averaged 12 a game his fresh year according to ESPN. Isaiah averaged less according to ESPN. Basketball reference has Scottie Lindsey at 15 per game.
Edit to say your spreadsheet also has different numbers for pardon than your previous post.
Where’d you get your stats?
You also moved the goal posts from 15 min to 12 min to fit your agenda I mean argument.
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That's a really weird stat. We're talking about four players that even qualify for this stat if you don't include Ryan Young, who didn't average any minutes his first year in the program. Four players is not a particularly significant sample size, particularly how arbitrarily the minutes lines are drawn and without context for how other programs handle similarly situated players.
These arguments are mind numbing. Despite how twisted the data gets, they all lead back to the same conclusion. What a surprise.Pete Nance - Milwaukee Bucks Forward - ESPN
View the profile of Milwaukee Bucks Forward Pete Nance on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.
Pete averaged 12 a game his fresh year according to ESPN. Isaiah averaged less according to ESPN. Basketball reference has Scottie Lindsey at 15 per game.
Edit to say your spreadsheet also has different numbers for pardon than your previous post.
Where’d you get your stats?
You also moved the goal posts from 15 min to 12 min to fit your agenda I mean argument.
You fellas are amazingly myopic in how you react to things like this.
I normally get my numbers from this source...
and yes they seem to calculate minutes per game based on games where the player actually got off the bench. (They don't count zeros in their calculation). I noticed that when I was looking up Nate Taphorn, right at the end of the list.
The point is (and always was) that Collins either plays you right away or your chances of developing into a starter are not good.
It remains true despite the quibbling.
The "attack the message" mentality continues and the attackers continue to be unable or unwilling to hold an honest discussion.
I normally get my numbers from this source...
and yes they seem to calculate minutes per game based on games where the player actually got off the bench. (They don't count zeros in their calculation). I noticed that when I was looking up Nate Taphorn, right at the end of the list.
The point is (and always was) that Collins either plays you right away or your chances of developing into a starter are not good.
It remains true despite the quibbling.
The "attack the message" mentality continues and the attackers continue to be unable or unwilling to hold an honest discussion.
The link I had from the same website has differing min for Lindsey than the spreadsheet
Hoosboot:
Ryan Young, being a redshirt, would be evaluated, like everybody else, on his first year on the court. He played significant minutes.
I think you're missing the fact that Collins had other new guys on the roster every year who didn't play significant minutes. None of them went on to be 20 minute per game players. I didn't look their numbers up or include them in the grid.
Jordan Ash, Jared Coleman-Jones, Rapolas Ivanauskas, Johnny Vassar, Aaron Liberman, Chier Ajou, guys like that.
I freely admit that the minutes played is arbitrary. I merely had an impression in my head that under Collins, guys either played right away or they never "stepped up" significantly. I guessed that 15 minutes was a reasonable cutoff. I looked up the players and presented the data. I then modified my original guess. Thats how you reach fact-based conclusions.
I don't know how other programs do it, but I looked at Wisconsin's 2016-17 team and 2 of the first 6 guys I clicked on had played sparingly for 2 seasons before becoming starters. I'm guessing there is a difference between "good programs" and "bad programs." Purdue's 2018-19 team had Sasha Stefanovic who went from 10.2 to 28.4 in his 2nd year. Trevion Williams went from 12. to 23.6. Eric Hunter went from 11.6 to 31.6. I haven't looked at any other programs.
I appreciate that you are willing to engage in an open-minded discussion.
We all know you think CCC is a moron. How can we not? Why don’t you just focus on the only thing that matters, wins and losses instead of creating made up theories that people clearly debunk that you refuse to acknowledge. Take the L. You will have 10 more months to whine about CCC because you are about to witness a 4-5 win B1G season.
The numbers are supposed to be for conference games only.
Lindsey's numbers match the website.
Ryan Young's are slightly off because I didn't click the tab to get conference games only.
Doesn't matter.
Try having an honest discussion. I am presenting the data. I'm not even expressing an opinion. And you (again and eternally) interpret the data negatively, without adding anything to the discussion, then blame me for your conclusions.
It is laughable and sad at the same time.
Comical. Honest discussion in your mind is agreeing with your points. When challenged you just dig in more and with snide thinly veiled insults. At least my slams are direct.
The better players play more minutes right away. What a revelation! You literally turn every thread into an opportunity to keep blasting CCC. ****ing mind numbing.
Pretty much everyone is ready for a change even if they don’t agree with your constant narrative of everything including the Russian invasion of Ukraine being CCC’s fault. It’s obviously Not working out! We will stink next year, but I know, I know we got talent to be top half of the conference.