Any transfer candidates?

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,132
2,569
113
Here’s the deal, the program is a train wreck. Next season will probably be the bottom for awhile. That is all the matters. “Discussion”isn’t going to personally make me feel better and listening to constant whining is not a fun experience for most. So if people want to engage in the circle jerk of bitching, cool but I am out, just like most people that used to frequent this board. I got a football season to ***** about. See you in 2023.
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
Comical. Honest discussion in your mind is agreeing with your points. When challenged you just dig in more and with snide thinly veiled insults. At least my slams are direct.

The better players play more minutes right away. What a revelation! You literally turn every thread into an opportunity to keep blasting CCC. ****ing mind numbing.

Pretty much everyone is ready for a change even if they don’t agree with your constant narrative of everything including the Russian invasion of Ukraine being CCC’s fault. It’s obviously Not working out! We will stink next year, but I know, I know we got talent to be top half of the conference.
I literally stated no conclusions whatsoever. It is you who reads the info I post and draw your own conclusions. Then you blame me.
 

hoosboot

All-American
Nov 7, 2001
26,893
6,534
0
Hoosboot:

Ryan Young, being a redshirt, would be evaluated, like everybody else, on his first year on the court. He played significant minutes.

I think you're missing the fact that Collins had other new guys on the roster every year who didn't play significant minutes. None of them went on to be 20 minute per game players. I didn't look their numbers up or include them in the grid.
Jordan Ash, Jared Coleman-Jones, Rapolas Ivanauskas, Johnny Vassar, Aaron Liberman, Chier Ajou, guys like that.

I freely admit that the minutes played is arbitrary. I merely had an impression in my head that under Collins, guys either played right away or they never "stepped up" significantly. I guessed that 15 minutes was a reasonable cutoff. I looked up the players and presented the data. I then modified my original guess. Thats how you reach fact-based conclusions.

I don't know how other programs do it, but I looked at Wisconsin's 2016-17 team and 2 of the first 6 guys I clicked on had played sparingly for 2 seasons before becoming starters. I'm guessing there is a difference between "good programs" and "bad programs." Purdue's 2018-19 team had Sasha Stefanovic who went from 10.2 to 28.4 in his 2nd year. Trevion Williams went from 12. to 23.6. Eric Hunter went from 11.6 to 31.6. I haven't looked at any other programs.

I appreciate that you are willing to engage in an open-minded discussion.
I appreciate your attempt to find stats to quantify the things you see on the court, but I think the problem with some of the stats you present is that you don't offer enough context and fact-based explanation for why a stat means what you seem to be saying it means.

I realize that it's a lot of work, but offering the context of a couple of guys from Wisconsin's 2016-2017 team or a couple of guys from Purdue's 2018-2019 team doesn't confirm that your analysis is sound. And because you often pick oddly specific data without explanation (why 12 instead of 15, why Wisconsin 2016-2017 instead of Wisconsin over the same period of time as Northwestern), it leaves the analysis of the data open to criticism. Anyone can see that you modified your original guess, but you don't offer explanation for WHY you modified your original guess. How do the arbitrary choices you make and the modifications you make better inform the analysis of the data?

For example, why is "first year on the court" a better benchmark for how a player arrived at Northwestern in Collins' program than "first year in the program"?
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
I appreciate your attempt to find stats to quantify the things you see on the court, but I think the problem with some of the stats you present is that you don't offer enough context and fact-based explanation for why a stat means what you seem to be saying it means.

I realize that it's a lot of work, but offering the context of a couple of guys from Wisconsin's 2016-2017 team or a couple of guys from Purdue's 2018-2019 team doesn't confirm that your analysis is sound. And because you often pick oddly specific data without explanation (why 12 instead of 15, why Wisconsin 2016-2017 instead of Wisconsin over the same period of time as Northwestern), it leaves the analysis of the data open to criticism. Anyone can see that you modified your original guess, but you don't offer explanation for WHY you modified your original guess. How do the arbitrary choices you make and the modifications you make better inform the analysis of the data?

For example, why is "first year on the court" a better benchmark for how a player arrived at Northwestern in Collins' program than "first year in the program"?
Well, "first year on the court" eliminates the noise that results from the coach deciding to redshirt a particular player. Maybe he wasn't needed, maybe he could use a year in the weight room, maybe he was injured, etc... It isolates that issue. It also allows better analysis of transfers under the old "sit out a season" rules - for a guy like Audige.

I realize that randomly picking players from two consistent teams doesn't prove anything. But I never actually made any claims about the data.

I'm just presenting the information. I think it is interesting to see what coaches do with their players' minutes from season to season, as they go thru their eligibility. I was actually hoping that others would be able to weigh in with anecdotal evidence, but that surely hasn't happened so far. "Good players play" means nothing unless you assume everybody is a finished product when they show up in college. I don't believe that at all.

My working "theory" is that a bad program doesn't have the depth or consistency to develop players - that it is constantly plugging gaps - and freshmen and transfers need to play, while a solid program is not doing that - they bring in talent and get the players feet wet, then gradually load them with more playing time - because they are actually improving their games, or even out of loyalty to the players.

To me thats a reasonable point of view and there is data out there to either confirm or reject it.

And I figure I will learn something.

Others (not you) just clearly are not of the same mindset and try to prevent discussion.
 

Styre

Senior
Oct 14, 2004
7,732
403
83
We have 11, listed by eligibility:

Senior
Verhoeven (RS, C19)

Junior
Audige (RS, C19)
Beran (C19)
Buie (C19)

Sophomore
Barnhizer
Berry (C19)
Nicholson (C19)
Roper
Simmons

Freshman
Hunger
Martinelli

The three juniors will all be graduating this year (Audige may have graduated already, he's going into year 5) so they'll likely be billed as seniors, but they all have eligibility through 2023-24.

Well, now we have 10.
 

xxxbobxxx

Sophomore
Mar 12, 2005
10,806
163
43
We all know you think CCC is a moron. How can we not? Why don’t you just focus on the only thing that matters, wins and losses instead of creating made up theories that people clearly debunk that you refuse to acknowledge. Take the L. You will have 10 more months to whine about CCC because you are about to witness a 4-5 win B1G season.
I'll take the under. Definitely curious to see if Simmons is the only ax to fall or if this is the second beginning.
 

xxxbobxxx

Sophomore
Mar 12, 2005
10,806
163
43
Comical. Honest discussion in your mind is agreeing with your points. When challenged you just dig in more and with snide thinly veiled insults. At least my slams are direct.

The better players play more minutes right away. What a revelation! You literally turn every thread into an opportunity to keep blasting CCC. ****ing mind numbing.

Pretty much everyone is ready for a change even if they don’t agree with your constant narrative of everything including the Russian invasion of Ukraine being CCC’s fault. It’s obviously Not working out! We will stink next year, but I know, I know we got talent to be top half of the conference.
Hey, how did CCC do in all his genius over the past 10 years with the players that he recruited?
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
I'm not convinced Simmons is actually transferring...
purely because of the penalty he'd likely face, having to sit out..
but if he does transfer...

C Verhoeven Nicholson Hunger
PF Beran Hunger Martinelli
SF Audige Barnhizer Martinelli
SG Roper Berry
PG Buie (Berry or Roper or Audige ???)

Hunger will likely play 20 minutes a night, maybe more.

Somebody is going to have to step up... And then another somebody...
 

7th Cir. Cat

Redshirt
Jul 25, 2006
2,171
9
23
I'm not convinced Simmons is actually transferring...
purely because of the penalty he'd likely face, having to sit out..
but if he does transfer...

C Verhoeven Nicholson Hunger
PF Beran Hunger Martinelli
SF Audige Barnhizer Martinelli
SG Roper Berry
PG Buie (Berry or Roper or Audige ???)

Hunger will likely play 20 minutes a night, maybe more.

Somebody is going to have to step up... And then another somebody...
You think Roper starts over Berry? Interesting. I’m assuming you think that because of Roper’s defense and Berry’s streakiness
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
You think Roper starts over Berry? Interesting. I’m assuming you think that because of Roper’s defense and Berry’s streakiness
Yeah, I think so.
Roper and Berry both played just over 20 minutes a game in conference. Roper was a freshman and appeared to be improving before he sort of stalled a bit. Good defender, wasn't really looking for his shot most of the season, but gets to the offensive boards. Above all, Collins likes him, as reflected in his playing time. Hopefully the offense comes - I think it will. He plays with some competitive fire.

Berry didn't make the jump I was hoping for, but he will certainly play a lot next season.

We only have 4 guards and one of them (Audige) might be the small forward. I'm hoping Barnhizer steps up to claim minutes at that position - or Martinelli - but we're quite small with Beran at the 4 and Audige at the 3.
 

DaCat

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
25,506
1,900
113
Yeah, I think so.
Roper and Berry both played just over 20 minutes a game in conference. Roper was a freshman and appeared to be improving before he sort of stalled a bit. Good defender, wasn't really looking for his shot most of the season, but gets to the offensive boards. Above all, Collins likes him, as reflected in his playing time. Hopefully the offense comes - I think it will. He plays with some competitive fire.

Berry didn't make the jump I was hoping for, but he will certainly play a lot next season.

We only have 4 guards and one of them (Audige) might be the small forward. I'm hoping Barnhizer steps up to claim minutes at that position - or Martinelli - but we're quite small with Beran at the 4 and Audige at the 3.
I would like to see a 4 guard lineup - Buie, Roper, Audige, Berry - and Hunger. Reduce the minutes for Beran, unless makes a significant breakthrough as a senior.
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
I would like to see a 4 guard lineup - Buie, Roper, Audige, Berry - and Hunger. Reduce the minutes for Beran, unless makes a significant breakthrough as a senior.
Wow that would be placing a huge burden on Hunger. Not saying Collins won't do it.

My preference is that Nicholson would be the starter and hopefully he learns to cut down on the fouls, with Hunger getting a lot of time at the 5, but also backing up Beran. In my view, Verhoeven shouldn't play much unless he is clearly better than Nicholson and Hunger - there is no upside to Verhoeven and it is almost wasting minutes. Of course Collins doesn't have the luxury of time, so Verhoeven will play.

Beran is virtually guaranteed 30+ a night, with Verhoeven, Nicholson and Hunger splitting 40 minutes, but Hunger getting additional time when Beran has to sit. I'm expecting 20 mins for Verhoeven, 20 for Hunger and 10 for Nicholson. I just don't think Collins has much use for a really big center. Nicholson dunks, rebounds, bangs and alters shots. He can't score outside of 8 feet, if that. And thats where Collins loses interest.
 

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
Wow that would be placing a huge burden on Hunger. Not saying Collins won't do it.

My preference is that Nicholson would be the starter and hopefully he learns to cut down on the fouls, with Hunger getting a lot of time at the 5, but also backing up Beran. In my view, Verhoeven shouldn't play much unless he is clearly better than Nicholson and Hunger - there is no upside to Verhoeven and it is almost wasting minutes. Of course Collins doesn't have the luxury of time, so Verhoeven will play.

Beran is virtually guaranteed 30+ a night, with Verhoeven, Nicholson and Hunger splitting 40 minutes, but Hunger getting additional time when Beran has to sit. I'm expecting 20 mins for Verhoeven, 20 for Hunger and 10 for Nicholson. I just don't think Collins has much use for a really big center. Nicholson dunks, rebounds, bangs and alters shots. He can't score outside of 8 feet, if that. And thats where Collins loses interest.
Also can't shoot.
 
Dec 24, 2010
3,099
102
63
Ryan Greer; Derek Pardon.
Greer didn't sit on the bench and slowly improve his playing time until he became a strong starter as a junior/senior, so I don't count him.

Dererk, I'm not so sure he works either. Had Olah stayed healthy the entire season, Dererk would have been more in line with my comments. The plan was to bench and develop him, but iirc he was playing by December as a frosh and got about 16 minutes a game that year going forward. He certainly shares a similar spirit with Hearns, but he moved into the starter roll pretty fast. As he should have.

Hearns was a walk on who developed into a legit star on the team by his junior year. A leader and a go to guy whose graduation was a serious loss to the team.

That's a pretty rare character, especially at NU, which in my limited experience just historically doesn't have enough depth to sit players and train them up for a year or two in the B1G before giving them starter type minutes.
 

xxxbobxxx

Sophomore
Mar 12, 2005
10,806
163
43
Greer didn't sit on the bench and slowly improve his playing time until he became a strong starter as a junior/senior, so I don't count him.

Dererk, I'm not so sure he works either. Had Olah stayed healthy the entire season, Dererk would have been more in line with my comments. The plan was to bench and develop him, but iirc he was playing by December as a frosh and got about 16 minutes a game that year going forward. He certainly shares a similar spirit with Hearns, but he moved into the starter roll pretty fast. As he should have.

Hearns was a walk on who developed into a legit star on the team by his junior year. A leader and a go to guy whose graduation was a serious loss to the team.

That's a pretty rare character, especially at NU, which in my limited experience just historically doesn't have enough depth to sit players and train them up for a year or two in the B1G before giving them starter type minutes.
Last year - boo, Berry, chase , nance , RY
Bunch of hot frosh plus Beran and Williams. That’s a talented group. A lot more talent the wins reflect.

RI did well in his limited covid stint. Should have used him better. Benson should have never left - guess you don’t have to worry about depth if everyone isn’t leaving. Hell, Jones had potential to contribute.

But we have a captain paid handsomely to man the ship. Hire the staff, identify and develop (and keep) the talent and coach them to good game strategy. Paid handsomely. Could hire a cheaper babysitter for similar low results.

But we pay handsomely. And invest in infrastructure. And whenever the discussion gets hard - admissions, history, admin. Yet, the dance is littered with examples of success. Short term and long term. (I think we would love even short term.). And the apologists avoid this discussion because the only answer is that the AD sucks. The athletic department.

Money talks and I doubt Ryan cares about MBB. So, a school with graduates that could dominate the NIL world, we spat admissions, excuses, etc.

Stop showing up. Stop being nice. When I get the calls - I assume we all do - I say I would rather donate by buying season tickets. It’s greeted warmly. Until I say that I want a competitive team and accountability. The call goes dry and 90-120 days later I get the next one. And I take the call every time.

If you simply want to be part of the sad pity me NU athletic story and brag about graduation rates and participation trophies, keep supporting the system. Despite much more deserving non revenue programs like just about every womens program. Or simply engage the caller and explain why you would but won’t hope enough of these calls leak up.
 

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
Greer didn't sit on the bench and slowly improve his playing time until he became a strong starter as a junior/senior, so I don't count him.

Dererk, I'm not so sure he works either. Had Olah stayed healthy the entire season, Dererk would have been more in line with my comments. The plan was to bench and develop him, but iirc he was playing by December as a frosh and got about 16 minutes a game that year going forward. He certainly shares a similar spirit with Hearns, but he moved into the starter roll pretty fast. As he should have.

Hearns was a walk on who developed into a legit star on the team by his junior year. A leader and a go to guy whose graduation was a serious loss to the team.

That's a pretty rare character, especially at NU, which in my limited experience just historically doesn't have enough depth to sit players and train them up for a year or two in the B1G before giving them starter type minutes.
Ryan Greer should not be mentioned as an example of success in anything NU bball related.

All signs point to the young man being a remarkable dude. Work ethic, poise, etc. very good chance he will do great things in whatever he decides to do in life. Basketball (as it looks like) related or not.

But, as it relates to having played bball for NU, is this where we go to pint out success under CC? Sure, he came in one year younger than normal. He also evolved from irrelevant to a piece in the rotation as a senior. You know what they is? Very, very normal. Great story, and frankly I did not think he he could play more than 5 minutes. But that’s all it is, a nice story.

Ryan Greer was, by the time he left NU, a well below average B1G player.

If our hopes hinge on the ability of our program to develop players into well below average, I will stop paying attention. And I am a guy who really loves basketball.
 
Dec 24, 2010
3,099
102
63
Last year - boo, Berry, chase , nance , RY
Bunch of hot frosh plus Beran and Williams. That’s a talented group. A lot more talent the wins reflect.

RI did well in his limited covid stint. Should have used him better. Benson should have never left - guess you don’t have to worry about depth if everyone isn’t leaving. Hell, Jones had potential to contribute.

But we have a captain paid handsomely to man the ship. Hire the staff, identify and develop (and keep) the talent and coach them to good game strategy. Paid handsomely. Could hire a cheaper babysitter for similar low results.

But we pay handsomely. And invest in infrastructure. And whenever the discussion gets hard - admissions, history, admin. Yet, the dance is littered with examples of success. Short term and long term. (I think we would love even short term.). And the apologists avoid this discussion because the only answer is that the AD sucks. The athletic department.

Money talks and I doubt Ryan cares about MBB. So, a school with graduates that could dominate the NIL world, we spat admissions, excuses, etc.

Stop showing up. Stop being nice. When I get the calls - I assume we all do - I say I would rather donate by buying season tickets. It’s greeted warmly. Until I say that I want a competitive team and accountability. The call goes dry and 90-120 days later I get the next one. And I take the call every time.

If you simply want to be part of the sad pity me NU athletic story and brag about graduation rates and participation trophies, keep supporting the system. Despite much more deserving non revenue programs like just about every womens program. Or simply engage the caller and explain why you would but won’t hope enough of these calls leak up.
Do you think this is somehow a response to my post or did you quote me accidentally?
 

cometclear

Redshirt
Jan 10, 2009
427
8
0
Tykei Greene, a 6'4" two-guard from Stony Brook withdrew from the draft and today announced he would grad transfer. Average 14 ppg and 8 boards last season. Shot 42% from three. I would imagine that he wants to play and not get garbage minutes at a top program if he's focused on the NBA, but who knows? According to Verbal Commits, he would be immediately eligible: https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/tykei-greene
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
Tykei Greene, a 6'4" two-guard from Stony Brook withdrew from the draft and today announced he would grad transfer. Average 14 ppg and 8 boards last season. Shot 42% from three. I would imagine that he wants to play and not get garbage minutes at a top program if he's focused on the NBA, but who knows? According to Verbal Commits, he would be immediately eligible: https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/tykei-greene

Collins is out there looking for the Holy Grail, not another shooting guard!

 
Dec 24, 2010
3,099
102
63
Stony Brook looks like it has done better than Evansville, but I feel we've been down this road before and good 3 point shooters from minor conferences don't translate that great to B1G production.
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,132
2,569
113
Last year - boo, Berry, chase , nance , RY
Bunch of hot frosh plus Beran and Williams. That’s a talented group. A lot more talent the wins reflect.

RI did well in his limited covid stint. Should have used him better. Benson should have never left - guess you don’t have to worry about depth if everyone isn’t leaving. Hell, Jones had potential to contribute.

But we have a captain paid handsomely to man the ship. Hire the staff, identify and develop (and keep) the talent and coach them to good game strategy. Paid handsomely. Could hire a cheaper babysitter for similar low results.

But we pay handsomely. And invest in infrastructure. And whenever the discussion gets hard - admissions, history, admin. Yet, the dance is littered with examples of success. Short term and long term. (I think we would love even short term.). And the apologists avoid this discussion because the only answer is that the AD sucks. The athletic department.

Money talks and I doubt Ryan cares about MBB. So, a school with graduates that could dominate the NIL world, we spat admissions, excuses, etc.

Stop showing up. Stop being nice. When I get the calls - I assume we all do - I say I would rather donate by buying season tickets. It’s greeted warmly. Until I say that I want a competitive team and accountability. The call goes dry and 90-120 days later I get the next one. And I take the call every time.

If you simply want to be part of the sad pity me NU athletic story and brag about graduation rates and participation trophies, keep supporting the system. Despite much more deserving non revenue programs like just about every womens program. Or simply engage the caller and explain why you would but won’t hope enough of these calls leak up.
Glad you are not the talent evaluator for anyones favorite NBA or college team.
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,132
2,569
113
Collins is out there looking for the Holy Grail, not another shooting guard!


I know zero about this guy, but there is no risk in taking a one year player to fill an empty chair even if his position is redundant to all of the power you have on your roster.