As ugly as this is ...
- Thread starter Max_Power
- Start date
I think we are two years away. Pardon and Law are awfully good. They’re not replaceable by next year.
The sad thing is, NU is already in Collins' 6th year, and is regressing. This season looks to be challenging. Next year might be ugly. So we should hope and dream that it all comes together in year 8? I guess I expected more from a guy who sat next to Coach K for 13 years and has a great NBA coach for a Father.....
Didn't you learn with that Penn State loss a few years ago where you wagered your screenname against us on the second game game not to take too much stock in the outcome of single game? We've got a bunch of talented guys who are still getting used to playing together, I think we will be fine in the long run...
You’re right, probably ok in long run. I was hoping for more than one NCAA appearance in my lifetime. Guess I understand how Cub fans feel.
You do realize that only five players on this team (Greer, Kopp, Nance, Young, Gaines) are freshmen or sophomores, and one is redshirting? And that next year we are losing four players (Law, Pardon, Taylor, Ash) plus have one unused scholarship, but only have three freshman commits? Collins presumably is going to have to hit the transfer market again. That’s not exactly confidence-inspiring for the long run.
Yes it was one game and yes it is a long season. But I view this year as an absolutely critical “bridge year” between the BMac era and the next one for NU basketball, with the new arena and such. If this team can’t even make the NIT, I’m not sure how Collins is going to be able to sell the program’s trajectory to some of the outstanding recruits on the radar for 2020 and 2021.
Once Carmody's recruits graduated, recruiting has tanked. The "4 stars" never produced.
Without Taphorn and Sanjay we wouldnt have won 5 Big games in our big dance year.
Give me guys like Demps all day over guys like Turner.
Let us hope that this is a one game fluke of awful basketball. Im afraid that it may not be though.
Nance, and other newbies appear severely overrated and lost out there, and the poor recruiting has been a 80% miss. Other than Law or Pardon, im not impressed. Not sure why we are struggling to fill our roster. Having open scholarships isnt a good sign.
I think in time Nance will be a very good player, but I was expecting much more from him. He looks lost out there and not assertive at all very tentative.
Well according to NU standards Collins has at least 7 more seasons to prove himself.
And Falzon may not be back. You have to assume he will be given the option if healthy due only to the pure number of available schollie. But if medically done, that makes six open spots.
Overrated based on what?
Kopp looks like a legitimate starter....solid, solid defense, physical player. Has he shot like a freshman? Yes. But he sure looks like a guy who will score.
Greer has looked at times like the best option at PG....really nothing one can say negatively about Greer. A guess is that he doesn't start because Collins doesn't want to start two frosh.
And Nance has looked like a frosh....wonderful at times...cringe inducing at others. But it would be daft to not see what is there.
Again, overrated base on what?
At this point, I'd like to see Greer start, with Turner, Taylor and Law at the wings and Dererk. Need someone who can distribute the ball and Greer seems the best option.
I did watch the game late last night, fighting against tryptophan and a very dry french white to stay awake.
I thought AJ did just fine with the ball. The turnovers weren't for lack of pg as much as players looking not ready for some stiff, aggressive competition.
But I think the coach's decision-making on pg is suspect. Sure, you give something up putting the frosh in there, but he has such a settling influence. I think the players need more clarity. I think Collins has given them too much to think about and to work out amongst themselves on the floor. Greer solves that problem.
I think with Greer in there 25+ minutes the issue of Pardon not getting enough touches goes away. I also think that Vic gets to do more off the ball to set himself up for open threes. Now he has to dribble into his threes. He needs to be able to catch and shoot.
Greer spreads the floor and opens it up for Taylor and Turner. No one else does that.
Side note....kid on the other team named Bittner....any old Cub fans remember Larry Biittner (with two ii's)?
I fully expect NU to win this afternoon. Sunday they will play the winner of Grand Canyon, who had a narrow loss to Seton Hall, and Utah, who were upset by Hawai'i. So the Cats will get a second quality opponent whoever wins. A chance for some redemption.
I think you’re not being fair. This is the kind of job it takes a decade to establish. Well... maybe not if we had hired Bobby Hurley... but I don’t think we could have kept Hurley.
I don’t mind if he just rests up and transfers. His defense and one dimensional game don’t solve our lack of shot creation.
I don’t see if it would matter much if we gave him 13. Our program won’t get worse unless there’s a scandal or the next president guts athletics. I’m in favor of keeping him unless we totally bottom out. We will catch fire every 4 years or so and that’s acceptable for our history.
Did you feel we "couldn't make the NIT"PRIOR to this game? Or are you basing your assessment on this game alone?
I agree with the negative nancies but I also don’t think there’s any cause for alarm long term. This is a development year for the frosh and I’m confident they’ll be good as juniors. It just takes time. In the meantime Law and Pardon will keep us in some games and we should be competitive often, just not NCAA worthy. Maybe NIT if some other programs collapse in the conference due to injuries.
overrated, based on production. The fact that they are playing isnt a sign that they are great, but it is indicative of former recruiting that hasnt panned out (falzon, rap, benson, Ash, and everyone else not named Law or Pardon). The good ones got away THT, etc.
We are awful.
The only other possible argument is that Collins is a poor coach. If that is true then THT would have been bad here.
But what isnt supported is your opinion that everyone is great. I havent seen anything good. Binginton even outscored us the second half.
Frezno State sucks. So, no. We are pretty bad.
fitz. lots of up and down seasons. year 12. finally won the division and is playing for a chance to win the conference.
NU has lots of hurdles to overcome on various levels and it takes lots of time. there is no immediate pay-off for recruiting. it takes time. top level recruits never pan out and unknown players get drafted. there is no perfect formula year in year out for most programs, especially ours.
NU has lots of hurdles to overcome on various levels and it takes lots of time. there is no immediate pay-off for recruiting. it takes time. top level recruits never pan out and unknown players get drafted. there is no perfect formula year in year out for most programs, especially ours.
Did you watch the Miami game today? At least right now, Fresno State certainly does not suck. If you didn't know who was playing, you would have thought it was a battle between two ranked teams.
You must be new to TurkWicker's posts. Nearly all of his posts are ridiculous. Better to make fun of his posts than to ignore him tho, imo....
I was on the record predicting NIT (and potentially a deep run) before the season. Yesterday’s game confirmed some of my fears about this team’s weaknesses against quality competition.
I hope to be proven wrong but in today’s guard-dominated game I’m just not sure this experiment of four wings and a center will work.
Haywood I respect your insight but do you really think that basketball and football recruiting is that comparable? There are just so many more players that Fitz brings in, and many more opportunities to redshirt, that the likelihood that he finds a starting-level B1G player at a given position is quite high. The issue has long been “quality depth” and it seems like he is getting close to figuring that out.
By contrast, basketball is all about getting a few stars and building a team of solid players around them. There is far less room for error — there are only so many players you can bury in the depth chart. Everything came together in 2016-17 in that BMac, Lindsey, Law and Pardon were all largely healthy, Lumpkin and Taphorn knew their roles and a few other bench players made timely contributions.
NU has dealt with a number of things that could derail the momentum of the program. Brown and Ivanausakas transfer. Ash never developed into a Power 5 starter. Falzon persistently injured. The Lathon situation.
I wish the program nothing but success. I hope that Collins pulls his best coaching effort yet and this team makes some noise in the Big Ten. But if they fail to make the NIT, leaving only one postseason appearance in the Collins era, is it fair to even compare him to the “Fitz track?”
He also has a pretty nice shot. Sorry but Ash and Gaines are bench players that lack the ability to shoot.
i am not sure exactly what side youre taking, but i think your post makes my point. the margin in error is FAR LESS in basketball. the number of FB players you can take chances on, and walk ons you can carry with the chances of being players is far greater. in football you can get 20-15 kids a year. you get 85 scholarships and play 22. in basketball you get 13 and can play 5. There is basically a power 7 in basketball, and mid-majors are a serious threat when trying to build a program vs. smaller conferences like the MAC
both programs have depth issues. yes fitz is FINALLY figuring it out and his tenure is twice as long as CCC. both were first time head coaches. both had solid seasons early in their career.both have had bad seasons. both deal with difficult academic standards and finding the right fit for the institution. both overcome poor reputations and "being trap games" and scheduled as other team home comings. both have HAD awful facilities. both are building program history vs. relying on it.
and football can go .500 and still make a bowl
I like both programs and i think both coaches do a phenomenal job for what they've been given. but fitz tenure has been twice and long, and as you said, is finally figuring that out
I guess my fear is that given the small margin of error in basketball, Collins is reaching the point where he can’t recover. Yes, on the one hand, we have the new facilities and have proven that NU can make a NCAA Tournament. But, the sustained success just isn’t there, and the risk is that NU seems like a flash in the pan is high, not to mention the novelty factor of being “the first” is gone.
Fitz, on the other hand, had a solid track record from 2008-2012, culminating in the Gator Bowl win that snapped the streak. Yes, 2013 and 2014 were non-bowl years, which was painful, but the previous success yielded Clayton Thorson, Justin Jackson, and others that elevated the program from 2015 to the present.
Can we say we have that now in basketball with the 2018 and 2019 class? I’m not sure. And that’s what worries me.
Maybe the stupidest thing I have ever read. I just became dummer by reading it.