Ash is transferring

[Medill90]

Wisconsin had four players who are seniors this year leave the team/transfer, one of whom was a 4* who NU recruited in the same year as Aaron. Aaron, despite his injuries, was more productive. Wisconsin fans aren't buzzing about a dumpster fire because they have a potential POY in Happ and are in the tournament.

MSU had four guys -- would be three seniors and one junior this year -- leave the team/transfer. Doesn't matter who leaves MSU because the aura is such that they are always in fine shape and Izzo is a spirit whisperer.

Michigan had six guys -- would be seniors/juniors this year -- leave the team/transfer.

Purdue two guys.

Iowa five guys.

Maryland two. (and two underclassmen)

Ohio State nine guys.

Minny five guys.

Those are the non pro departures of upperclassmen among the tournament teams.

Puts NU in the middle, about average.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Good healthy programs don't have players making those kind of decisions. Neither of those kids is likely to make a living playing basketball. If the culture and the chemistry was right, those kids would be happy to stay with their team and contribute to the advancement of the program for one more season while getting themselves one year's worth of graduate level education from a top university in the world.

It’s not about making a living. It’s about playing a game they love. To get to this level you are likely extremely competitive by nature. Being nailed to the bench on a team that will be bottom third of the B1G and potentially dead last would be a tough pill to shallow for a kid in his final year of ball. Players want to play.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Wisconsin had four players who are seniors this year leave the team/transfer, one of whom was a 4* who NU recruited in the same year as Aaron. Aaron, despite his injuries, was more productive. Wisconsin fans aren't buzzing about a dumpster fire because they have a potential POY in Happ and are in the tournament.

MSU had four guys -- would be three seniors and one junior this year -- leave the team/transfer. Doesn't matter who leaves MSU because the aura is such that they are always in fine shape and Izzo is a spirit whisperer.

Michigan had six guys -- would be seniors/juniors this year -- leave the team/transfer.

Purdue two guys.

Iowa five guys.

Maryland two. (and two underclassmen)

Ohio State nine guys.

Minny five guys.

Those are the non pro departures of upperclassmen among the tournament teams.

Puts NU in the middle, about average.

i refuse to believe this even though it is true!

 

[willycat]

Ash would have had value and would have found minutes next year, simply because NU only has three guards (Buie, Gaines, Turner - am I missing a fourth)?

While backup minutes were there, clearly he wants something more.

Yes, Greer.

 

[PurpleFaze]

People are actually concerned because Ash is leaving?

 

[hdhntr1]

this is not news simply because it was announced today - ash wants to play - and as everyone on this board has pointed out he is not a primary ball handler at this lever and never was. why would he stay when the experts agree? it is a no brainer for him

Basically two guys who want to play and would have to go through a lot of work just to get to a level to be able to. And if they stay, it is likely that there would be very limited minutes for them because of others at the position that fit more into the future of the program. In the case of Ash, especially if a transfer comes in. With Falzon, plenty of talent at his position

 

[hdhntr1]

Would either have played this year if Lathon came to NU? Probably not - at least not much. But both were needed due to injuries, attrition, Lathon's absence and the fact that teams are expected to have five guys on the floor.

Next year is lining up to be worse. This year, we had 11 available scholarship players (Young on redshirt) and two walkons. Next year, as we sit, we have ten scholarship players and one walk on.

Maybe something will change. But how many grad transfers have we chased and lost out on? And the last thing anyone around here wants is me bitching all year about the three empty schollies. Mark my words, we will have at least two empty scholarships - or one will be given to Malanati - and there will be numerous occasions next season that another schollie player might have helped.

Is it too late? Am I crying over spilt milk? Yes. But we having been spilling a lot of milk and it's time to start looking at who we entrust to hold the glass.

Lathon being here would likely not have affected Falzon playing time.

 

[hdhntr1]

I haven't read every post about Ash/Falzon transferring, but has anyone gone on record saying CC didn't ask them to come back? Isn't the simplest explanation that Ash/Falzon looked at the depth chart, realized there would be at least 9 guys ahead of them next season, and figured they already got their NU degree maybe they can find a better basketball situation for next season? Best of luck to the both of them. Yeah, next season probably will be bad for us, but the point is to build for the following season.

Guys ahead of them at their position is what is important. With Falzon it is easy to see with Nance, Kopp, Berhan , and more. With Ash, maybe he had a chance but not if CCC and company are able to bring in anything in the Grad Transfer market.

 

[Jeffrey Cat]

It’s not about making a living. It’s about playing a game they love. To get to this level you are likely extremely competitive by nature. Being nailed to the bench on a team that will be bottom third of the B1G and potentially dead last would be a tough pill to shallow for a kid in his final year of ball. Players want to play.

His final year is the fifth year, not the fourth year of the contract (4 year scholarship) they have. The school now has the option of whether they want to bring them back for another year.

 

[clarificationcat]

Good healthy programs don't have players making those kind of decisions. Neither of those kids is likely to make a living playing basketball. If the culture and the chemistry was right, those kids would be happy to stay with their team and contribute to the advancement of the program for one more season while getting themselves one year's worth of graduate level education from a top university in the world.

I don't agree with this at all. I am assuming they love playing basketball. They were both high school stars. It's their last year to play college ball. I am guessing they would like to either play 30 plus minutes a game or play on a team that has good chance to go to the tournament. Neither was going to happen at NU. It makes good sense to me from the perspective of a 22 year old kid.

 

[Sec_112]

People are actually concerned because Ash is leaving?

Yes, Faze, don't you know it's now the time of year to develop misguided urgencies and carry them to as many posts as possible next season?

Wait until we're able to prove how much the Cats will miss the point guard who played limited minutes in an whopping 14 B10 games ... over the last two years.

How about the equally-limited 3-pt "specialist" who shot 22% from 3 outside of one game this year. He might be the difference for an NCAA team at NU next year. What is Collins thinking?!?!?

Let's not forget the shame of the missing 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th scholarships. We'll completely ignore that most of the first seven or eight players in the rotation would have trouble getting rotation minutes - much less starting - on an upper-level B10 team.

Ash, Falzon and the 13th scholarship - THESE are the real problems.

 

[NUCat320]

Yes, Greer.

Thank you. I would think the message to Ash was “you’re third on the depth chart at two positions”, and he decided that the Horizon might be more fun. It’s fine.

 

[Jeffrey Cat]

Yes, Faze, don't you know it's now the time of year to develop misguided urgencies and carry them to as many posts as possible next season?

Wait until we're able to prove how much the Cats will miss the point guard who played limited minutes in an whopping 14 B10 games ... over the last two years.

How about the equally-limited 3-pt "specialist" who shot 22% from 3 outside of one game this year. He might be the difference for an NCAA team at NU next year. What is Collins thinking?!?!?

Let's not forget the shame of the missing 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th scholarships. We'll completely ignore that most of the first seven or eight players in the rotation would have trouble getting rotation minutes - much less starting - on an upper-level B10 team.

Ash, Falzon and the 13th scholarship - THESE are the real problems.

Another masterpiece post. I agree!

 

[hdhntr1]

Sure, but how the hell is Collins going to fill this many scholarships spots with better players for next year this late in the recruiting cycle. To assume this is all part of some plan by the coaching staff is disingenuous. This is the equivalent of what Penn State and Franklin just experienced in football.

If you want to chastise for what happened with Vasser/Brown then there is CCC culpability. With Rap, Falzon and Ash, it is more about injuries and mpg available. As far as what we will have this coming year with only 10 scholarship players listed, even one Grad Transfer likely puts us in better position than this year when we had 10 players or less available for most of the year with Ash out, Young being RS and Law injured for part of the season. Heck, even one of our walk-ons was knocked out.

Would it have been reasonable to have Ash and Falzon back? Yes but reality is that there were likely to be very limited minutes available for those players next year. Because of the injuries, it would take a lot of hard work just to get back to a condition that they could even play and to do that for 5 mpg??? Better to just retire from BB or if they still want an opportunity to play, look for an opportunity elsewhere.

So ideally we would see CCC get at least one grad transfer, an additional transfer into say Gaines class (such as Turner last year) and maybe a late blooming guy for this class

 

[hdhntr1]

No. And I worry he did and they turned him down. Neither is getting drafted. NU has some pretty good and valuable grad programs. If they both turned him down, players he recruited, what does that say?

If they can only get 5mpg, hard to justify coming back

 

[hdhntr1]

Ash would have had value and would have found minutes next year, simply because NU only has three guards (Buie, Gaines, Turner - am I missing a fourth)?

While backup minutes were there, clearly he wants something more.

Greer

 

[IGNORE]

You seriously believe that Ash and Falzon make NU jump 4 other B1G schools?

I didn't think so.

We will never know.

 

[hdhntr1]

This is a big to do over nothing. Losing Ash and Falzon as grad transfers is not an issue as neither offered much value for next year, due to past performance, injury history, etc. All parties know this and that's why they're both leaving for places where they can better compete and contribute, likely at much lesser conferences.

If we were talking about Turner leaving as a grad transfer, which I assume was/is possible, then we'd have something to worry about with regards to the state of the program as he's a returning starter and arguably the only proven B1G caliber player on next year's roster. Yikes, that's scary to consider, next year is gonna be ROUGH. Hopefully, Kopp and Nance make giant leaps over the offseason and Beran plays up to or beyond his hype...

You are forgetting Gaines and by the end of the year, Kopp looked like he belongs as well. The others, the jury is still out on but having 3 solid guys makes it not as bad as you suggest.

 

[hdhntr1]

Rap? Let’s watch the TN game. Brown? Let’s wait til next year. Falzon and Ash? Let’s see how our 200 work our next year.

Though, truth be told, probably not much solace in 10th over 14th.

This year 10 got to NIT, didn't it?

 

[IGNORE]

Yes, Faze, don't you know it's now the time of year to develop misguided urgencies and carry them to as many posts as possible next season?

Wait until we're able to prove how much the Cats will miss the point guard who played limited minutes in an whopping 14 B10 games ... over the last two years.

How about the equally-limited 3-pt "specialist" who shot 22% from 3 outside of one game this year. He might be the difference for an NCAA team at NU next year. What is Collins thinking?!?!?

Let's not forget the shame of the missing 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th scholarships. We'll completely ignore that most of the first seven or eight players in the rotation would have trouble getting rotation minutes - much less starting - on an upper-level B10 team.

Ash, Falzon and the 13th scholarship - THESE are the real problems.

Next year will be fun for the homers around here. Poke fun now, get archived later. That’s my feelings. I know, it’s so unfair! Why should I have my day after you get yours. Anywho, time will tell

 

[hdhntr1]

Good healthy programs don't have players making those kind of decisions. Neither of those kids is likely to make a living playing basketball. If the culture and the chemistry was right, those kids would be happy to stay with their team and contribute to the advancement of the program for one more season while getting themselves one year's worth of graduate level education from a top university in the world.

Sorry but about 40% of Div 1 BB players transfer during their career.

 

[Username Not Available]

Seems to be a lot of chicken little going around itt.

 

[hdhntr1]

I'll repeat the statistic I heard on ESPNU radio: 40% of Division I basketball players transfer by the end of their Sophomore year. If true, then NU is not an outlier.

And these guys are transferring after graduating

 

[IGNORE]

If you want to chastise for what happened with Vasser/Brown then there is CCC culpability. With Rap, Falzon and Ash, it is more about injuries and mpg available. As far as what we will have this coming year with only 10 scholarship players listed, even one Grad Transfer likely puts us in better position than this year when we had 10 players or less available for most of the year with Ash out, Young being RS and Law injured for part of the season. Heck, even one of our walk-ons was knocked out.

Would it have been reasonable to have Ash and Falzon back? Yes but reality is that there were likely to be very limited minutes available for those players next year. Because of the injuries, it would take a lot of hard work just to get back to a condition that they could even play and to do that for 5 mpg??? Better to just retire from BB or if they still want an opportunity to play, look for an opportunity elsewhere.

So ideally we would see CCC get at least one grad transfer, an additional transfer into say Gaines class (such as Turner last year) and maybe a late blooming guy for this class

Ash was never a good selection. He was a miss. Injuries have nothing to do with it.

RI had injuries and recovered. He could have justified the scholarship offer this past year. CCC lost him. That’s on CCC.

We will see what Brown was when he plays next year. But either he was a poor recruiting decision or another loss. Again on CCC.

We will see what fate delivers next year in players and injuries. And y’all can use it to provide cover for CCC. But if there are any open schollies and if we are short on personnel at some point, then loses Falzon (maybe Ash) is on CCC.

Start building up your excuse reservoir now. Next year is not shaping up well. This time last year, we had some hope. This year? Dumpster fire.

And what the Klique uses to offer excuses (fate related matters), I call failing to plan for contingencies.

But torch me now. It’s a win win for me. I’m either terribly wrong and get to enjoy an unexpected and delightful season next year... or fill the dead season time roasting all these posts.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

ever been just average at something (or younger and weaker) when you are surrounded by those who are much better? ever been a little brother while your older brother and his friends constantly pick on you and kick the crap out of you?

i have to imagine that is what its like for the NU guys

 

[IGNORE]

This year 10 got to NIT, didn't it?

Yup. Wonder how often that has happened in the B1G?

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Ash was never a good selection. He was a miss. Injuries have nothing to do with it.

RI had injuries and recovered. He could have justified the scholarship offer this past year. CCC lost him. That’s on CCC.

We will see what Brown was when he plays next year. But either he was a poor recruiting decision or another loss. Again on CCC.

We will see what fate delivers next year in players and injuries. And y’all can use it to provide cover for CCC. But if there are any open schollies and if we are short on personnel at some point, then loses Falzon (maybe Ash) is on CCC.

Start building up your excuse reservoir now. Next year is not shaping up well. This time last year, we had some hope. This year? Dumpster fire.

And what the Klique uses to offer excuses (fate related matters), I call failing to plan for contingencies.

But torch me now. It’s a win win for me. I’m either terribly wrong and get to enjoy an unexpected and delightful season next year... or fill the dead season time roasting all these posts.

i don't think anyone around here is claiming next year will be better.

as far as rap - lets do some digging on players that sat on their first 2 years of college and had successful careers for the same program. im sure its a small number if any at all.

 

[IGNORE]

ever been just average at something (or younger and weaker) when you are surrounded by those who are much better? ever been a little brother while your older brother and his friends constantly pick on you and kick the crap out of you?

i have to imagine that is what its like for the NU guys

That’s odd as CCC is supposed to be a great recruiter. And NU has been competitive in recent memory.

 

[IGNORE]

i don't think anyone around here is claiming next year will be better.

as far as rap - lets do some digging on players that sat on their first 2 years of college and had successful careers for the same program. im sure its a small number if any at all.

Go ahead. But RI is either a miss or a loss. He came, took up a schollie, got great northwestern medical treatment for what ailed him and left.

Either CCC brought in another recruiting miss or failed to keep a bench depth player in the least.

Color it any way you want but it is on CCC.

#accountability

 

[hdhntr1]

His final year is the fifth year, not the fourth year of the contract (4 year scholarship) they have. The school now has the option of whether they want to bring them back for another year.

Both sides have the option. Both have to agree for them to come back.

 

[hdhntr1]

Go ahead. But RI is either a miss or a loss. He came, took up a schollie, got great northwestern medical treatment for what ailed him and left.

Either CCC brought in another recruiting miss or failed to keep a bench depth player in the least.

Color it any way you want but it is on CCC.

#accountability

Yep, CCC took a crowbar to his leg.

 

[hdhntr1]

Why couldn’t someone with a bachelor’s degree from said top university decide to get a master’s elsewhere along with more playing time? Why isn’t that good for everyone involved?

Because that doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[Medill90]

Go ahead. But RI is either a miss or a loss. He came, took up a schollie, got great northwestern medical treatment for what ailed him and left.

Either CCC brought in another recruiting miss or failed to keep a bench depth player in the least.

Color it any way you want but it is on CCC.

#accountability

Haywood telegraphed in RI's frosh year/rising soph summer that RI had to learn some things/show some things on the court or he'd be hard-pressed to get minutes. Except for the injuries, looks similar to the Illikanien kid at Wiscy. RI is a top student and is a good fit at Colgate so it worked out.

Collins bringing in the top one or two player in Illinois who is 6 8" and then having that player injured and not develop is not really on Collins. Bring a horse to water sorta thing.

 

[IGNORE]

Yep, CCC took a crowbar to his leg.

CCC took him as a recruit, failed to keep him when he was ready to play. Injured from Day 1.

Failed use of another scholarship. End of story.

#accountability

 

[IGNORE]

Haywood telegraphed in RI's frosh year/rising soph summer that RI had to learn some things/show some things on the court or he'd be hard-pressed to get minutes. Except for the injuries, looks similar to the Illikanien kid at Wiscy. RI is a top student and is a good fit at Colgate so it worked out.

Collins bringing in the top one or two player in Illinois who is 6 8" and then having that player injured and not develop is not really on Collins. Bring a horse to water sorta thing.

Coaches develop players.

#accountability

 

[willycat]

CCC took him as a recruit, failed to keep him when he was ready to play. Injured from Day 1.

Failed use of another scholarship. End of story.

#accountability

Why do you bother, if you hate Collins and NU ? Who would you rather have as HC?

 

[Styre]

This year 10 got to NIT, didn't it?

This year, 13 got to the NIT. It was a very strange year.

 

[Medill90]

Coaches develop players.

#accountability

and some players think it's all about them

 

[haywood jahblowme]

That’s odd as CCC is supposed to be a great recruiter. And NU has been competitive in recent memory.

lets take away the admissions issue and see where he stands? i bet it would be a different story

so is he a great recruiter for super tight NU admissions? no. and it seems like the only school close (stanford) hasn't fared much better

 

[Sec_112]

Next year will be fun for the homers around here. Poke fun now, get archived later. That’s my feelings. I know, it’s so unfair! Why should I have my day after you get yours. Anywho, time will tell

I know this is what you're all about, NJ. You'll show us!! Maybe one of these days you can do it before it's plainly obvious.