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Atheist AI researcher turns down invitation to speak at Saudi Arabia univ with nice reply. Link.

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op2

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Mar 16, 2014
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The only problem with this letter is that he says that he's sure the closeted atheists in Saudi Arabia are doing just fine, which I doubt they are.




http://topyaps.com/facebook-yann-lecun-saudi-arabia
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

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Op2 said:
The only problem with this letter is that he says that he's sure the closeted atheists in Saudi Arabia are doing just fine, which I doubt they are.




http://topyaps.com/facebook-yann-lecun-saudi-arabia
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He really needs to do some research on the initiatives the country is pushing forward. Regardless, I guess in your mind, he showed them. In reality, he basically expressed the same intolerance to their beliefs as they show his. Can you not see that?
 
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Boomboom521

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Mar 14, 2014
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DvlDog4WVU said:
He really needs to do some research on the initiatives the country is pushing forward. Regardless, I guess in your mind, he showed them. In reality, he basically expressed the same intolerance to their beliefs as they show his. Can you not see that?
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Ummm...if I could legally be declared a terrorist in a foreign country because of my beliefs that are well known, I wouldn't go there either. If I was assured that I wouldn't be arrested for giving a speech asserting those beliefs, I would be happy to help foster change. Is that not a part of this situation?
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

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Boomboom521 said:
Ummm...if I could legally be declared a terrorist in a foreign country because of my beliefs that are well known, I wouldn't go there either. If I was assured that I wouldn't be arrested for giving a speech asserting those beliefs, I would be happy to help foster change. Is that not a part of this situation?
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As I said, he really needs to do a little research on the country and show some tolerance to their belief structure.
 
E

EEResistable

All-American
May 29, 2001
89,439
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DvlDog4WVU said:
He really needs to do some research on the initiatives the country is pushing forward. Regardless, I guess in your mind, he showed them. In reality, he basically expressed the same intolerance to their beliefs as they show his. Can you not see that?
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All I see is someone who doesn't want to be snatched up by the Muslims and decapitated.
 
O

op2

Senior
Mar 16, 2014
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DvlDog4WVU said:
He really needs to do some research on the initiatives the country is pushing forward. Regardless, I guess in your mind, he showed them. In reality, he basically expressed the same intolerance to their beliefs as they show his. Can you not see that?
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Wow, that is one of the crazier things I've seen on this board and that is saying something. The guy could be executed for his beliefs and other people in Saudi Arabia ARE executed for the same beliefs but he's being intolerant by not going there? Just, wow!

Even if Saudi Arabia manages to enact all the initiatives they're pushing they would still be absolutely barbaric by our standards. The law the guy refers to isn't one passed a century ago that is no longer enforced but just hasn't been officially repealed yet, instead it was passed in 2014 and it is enforced.

The problem is that although Saudi Arabia is barbaric they don't face consequences for their barbarism. Muslims across the world don't protest that the country containing their holy sites behaves terribly. Every POTUS goes over there and kisses their rear end. And when someone stands up to Saudi Arabia people like you call the person intolerant.

EVERYBODY should be responding to Saudia Arabia like this guy did. Then and only then might meaningful change come.
 
DvlDog4WVU

DvlDog4WVU

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Since the entirety of the board reds have responded in support of this individual, I assume you all have not paid attention to my posts on Saudi as I frequently go there. The King disbanded the Mutawa (Religious Police) or at least significantly reduced their overreach and influence. They are completely hands off with westerners now and we are advised if approached to ignore them. All of you who preach tolerance have shown a significant intolerance to their beliefs and culture. It would seem when dealing with the hierarchy of liberal ideals, religious tolerance falls lower on your scales of behavior. It would seem your tolerance of Muslim faith and beliefs only extends to the point of being intolerant to Christian held beliefs.

Tolerance scale:
Atheism>Islam>Christian

Do I have that right?
 
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WhiteTailEER

Sophomore
Jun 17, 2005
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DvlDog4WVU said:
Since the entirety of the board reds have responded in support of this individual, I assume you all have not paid attention to my posts on Saudi as I frequently go there. The King disbanded the Mutawa (Religious Police) or at least significantly reduced their overreach and influence. They are completely hands off with westerners now and we are advised if approached to ignore them. All of you who preach tolerance have shown a significant intolerance to their beliefs and culture. It would seem when dealing with the hierarchy of liberal ideals, religious tolerance falls lower on your scales of behavior. It would seem your tolerance of Muslim faith and beliefs only extends to the point of being intolerant to Christian held beliefs.

Tolerance scale:
Atheism>Islam>Christian

Do I have that right?
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I'm not sure who all you're responding to ... but in my case, I'd have to say that isn't right.

My intolerance isn't for other people's beliefs, to each their own. Do what makes you happy.

My intolerance comes when people use those beliefs to behead people ... or in the case of many of the Christians in this country ... try to push laws that essentially force everybody else into their belief system.

Let me live my life with the beliefs and values that I hold ... and you go live your life by the beliefs and values that you hold. As long as we don't infringe on each other, we should all be happy.
 
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Boomboom521

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DvlDog4WVU said:
Since the entirety of the board reds have responded in support of this individual, I assume you all have not paid attention to my posts on Saudi as I frequently go there. The King disbanded the Mutawa (Religious Police) or at least significantly reduced their overreach and influence. They are completely hands off with westerners now and we are advised if approached to ignore them. All of you who preach tolerance have shown a significant intolerance to their beliefs and culture. It would seem when dealing with the hierarchy of liberal ideals, religious tolerance falls lower on your scales of behavior. It would seem your tolerance of Muslim faith and beliefs only extends to the point of being intolerant to Christian held beliefs.

Tolerance scale:
Atheism>Islam>Christian

Do I have that right?
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I don't claim to know what the dangers for an atheist in Saudi Arabia are, or were, or might be when this guy gives his speech. I only feel it's legitimate for someone to reject a speaking gig based on fear of a law on the books being enforced (I'm sure his speech would advocate against organized religion in some manner). If a Christian turned down a speaking gig in China due to the persecution of Christians in that nation, I would also defend that decision. I don't think it's wrong for someone to decline an invitation to speak for really any reason. Are we at a place where someone is wrong for not wanting to listen to a speech, or not wanting to give a speech?

I'm really not sure why this seems to be such a obvious act of intolerance for you....esp since he declined the gig based on the nation's intolerance of atheism?
 
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D. Denzil Finney

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DvlDog4WVU said:
He really needs to do some research on the initiatives the country is pushing forward. Regardless, I guess in your mind, he showed them. In reality, he basically expressed the same intolerance to their beliefs as they show his. Can you not see that?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I have to say that your responsei identifys the actions shown by left and right factions of our country. Some how we need to find resolution, not revolution. JMO
 
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op2

Senior
Mar 16, 2014
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DvlDog4WVU said:
Since the entirety of the board reds have responded in support of this individual, I assume you all have not paid attention to my posts on Saudi as I frequently go there. The King disbanded the Mutawa (Religious Police) or at least significantly reduced their overreach and influence. They are completely hands off with westerners now and we are advised if approached to ignore them. All of you who preach tolerance have shown a significant intolerance to their beliefs and culture. It would seem when dealing with the hierarchy of liberal ideals, religious tolerance falls lower on your scales of behavior. It would seem your tolerance of Muslim faith and beliefs only extends to the point of being intolerant to Christian held beliefs.

Tolerance scale:
Atheism>Islam>Christian

Do I have that right?
Click to expand...

No, you have that wrong. And it's especially confusing for you to put this on liberals at a time when the problem with liberals these days is they won't criticize Muslims no matter how badly they behave whereas this is a thread criticizing Muslims.

People can be whatever religion they like but basic human rights trumps religious belief.

I've read about Salman and his 2030 plan but the thing is that first of all even if he accomplishes all that Saudi Arabia will be extremely backwards and secondly he may not be able to accomplish it because the clerics have a LOT of power in that country. The Kings and Princes can't just do anything they like and have the clerics obey.

And lastly, the only reason they're doing anything is because they can see the end of the road with oil coming down the line and if they don't change then after oil is no longer relevant they have nothing going for them except religious tourism. They have huge budget deficits because oil prices have been low for years and no matter what they try they can't raise the prices and the prospects for them ever raising oil prices doesn't look good. And every day that passes is one day closer to renewables making oil even less relevant.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Boomboom521 said:
Are we at a place where someone is wrong for not wanting to listen to a speech, or not wanting to give a speech?
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Using an opportunity to promote and exercise freedom of thought and speech in order to insult the inviters and have 15 minutes of social media fame is not only intolerant but crass and classless. Walking out in protest of a speech pretty much fits the dictionary definition of intolerance.
 
K

Keyser76

Freshman
Apr 7, 2010
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DvlDog4WVU said:
He really needs to do some research on the initiatives the country is pushing forward. Regardless, I guess in your mind, he showed them. In reality, he basically expressed the same intolerance to their beliefs as they show his. Can you not see that?
Click to expand...
The difference is he could be arrested there for his belief there is no God and I'm sure he tolerates religion where he can't be arrested.
 
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op2

Senior
Mar 16, 2014
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Boomboom521 said:
I don't claim to know what the dangers for an atheist in Saudi Arabia are, or were, or might be when this guy gives his speech. I only feel it's legitimate for someone to reject a speaking gig based on fear of a law on the books being enforced (I'm sure his speech would advocate against organized religion in some manner). If a Christian turned down a speaking gig in China due to the persecution of Christians in that nation, I would also defend that decision. I don't think it's wrong for someone to decline an invitation to speak for really any reason. Are we at a place where someone is wrong for not wanting to listen to a speech, or not wanting to give a speech?

I'm really not sure why this seems to be such a obvious act of intolerance for you....esp since he declined the gig based on the nation's intolerance of atheism?
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His visit wouldn't have anything to do with religion or atheism. He's an Artificial Intelligence researcher and they want him to come speak about AI at an institute of Science and Technology. IOW, Saudi Arabia wants to pretend they're a part of the civilized world of science and technology while being an otherwise uncivilized country. It's like if a slaveowner tried to make pals with you and have you over for dinner. No thanks. Get rid of your barbarism and then maybe we'll talk.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Keyser76 said:
The difference is he could be arrested there for his belief there is no God and I'm sure he tolerates religion where he can't be arrested.
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The chances of an American speaker encounting any trouble in SA are extremely remote. I'm sure he knows that. He's a coward and lowlife for posting his response on social media.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Op2 said:
His visit wouldn't have anything to do with religion or atheism. He's an Artificial Intelligence researcher and they want him to come speak about AI at an institute of Science and Technology. IOW, Saudi Arabia wants to pretend they're a part of the civilized world of science and technology while being an otherwise uncivilized country. It's like if a slaveowner tried to make pals with you and have you over for dinner. No thanks. Get rid of your barbarism and then maybe we'll talk.
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You ought to go and see for yourself before talking about what you don't know.
 
O

op2

Senior
Mar 16, 2014
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CAJUNEER said:
Using an opportunity to promote and exercise freedom of thought and speech in order to insult the inviters and have 15 minutes of social media fame is not only intolerant but crass and classless. Walking out in protest of a speech pretty much fits the dictionary definition of intolerance.
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It's not an opportunity to promote free speech. They would never invite him there to let him freely give his thoughts on free speech. They just want him to talk about his science to make their university look legitimate.

ETA: If SA let him come and speak freely about free speech and human rights and all that and didn't censor it and let the SA public listen to it without punishing them I'm sure he'd go.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Op2 said:
It's not an opportunity to promote free speech. They would never invite him there to let him freely give his thoughts on free speech. They just want him to talk about his science to make their university look legitimate.
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Your wrong. Christians are invited regularly speak in Muslim countries including SA.
 
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op2

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CAJUNEER said:
Your wrong. Christians are invited regularly speak in Muslim countries including SA.
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To speak about what?

ETA: Of course the point of this is that they don't invite Christian speakers to speak about Christianity or human rights or free speech. They invite people to speak on subjects that will help SA the economy or SA universities and those people just happen to be Christians.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Op2 said:
I've seen it all now. A Christian defending fundamentalist Islam. Wow.
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I didn't defend fundamentalist Islam. I said there is almost no danger to an invited American speaker.

A woman speaking at a school about Christ came under threat by a student demanding that she say Mohammed is greater than Jesus. The professor stepped in and threatened to have the student removed. That's the worst I've heard concerning an invited speaker.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Op2 said:
To speak about what?

ETA: Of course the point of this is that they don't invite Christian speakers to speak about Christianity or human rights or free speech. They invite people to speak on subjects that will help SA the economy or SA universities and those people just happen to be Christians.
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You're wrong.
 
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op2

Senior
Mar 16, 2014
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CAJUNEER said:
I didn't defend fundamentalist Islam. I said there is almost no danger to an invited American speaker.

A woman speaking at a school about Christ came under threat by a student demanding that she say Mohammed is greater than Jesus. The professor stepped in and threatened to have the student removed. That's the worst I've heard concerning an invited speaker.
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The AI researcher clearly didn't decline the invitation solely because he might be in danger. He declined it because SA kills Saudi citizens that are like him and thus he doesn't want to assist such a regime.
 
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op2

Senior
Mar 16, 2014
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CAJUNEER said:
You're wrong.
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Yeah, pick out one or two exceptions. Whatever. They have closed societies and they do not permit anything resembling free speech. They are backwards and repressive to put it mildly. They do not want the AI researcher to come talk about anything other than AI research.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Op2 said:
The AI researcher clearly didn't decline the invitation solely because he might be in danger. He declined it because SA kills Saudi citizens that are like him and thus he doesn't want to assist such a regime.
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Yes, and his approach is likely to improve that for atheists in SA.
 
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CAJUNEER_rivals

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Op2 said:
Yeah, pick out one or two exceptions. Whatever. They have closed societies and they do not permit anything resembling free speech. They are backwards and repressive to put it mildly. They do not want the AI researcher to come talk about anything other than AI research.
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I have a close friend who speaks there regularly.
 
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