Atheists shut down school Bible club for 1st and 2nd graders

WVU82_rivals

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May 29, 2001
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BARTLETT, Tennessee, May 8, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) — A popular student Bible Club has been shut down after a complaint from atheists.

Dozens of first and second graders at Altruria Elementary chose to be a part of "Bible Club," which met before school. Participation was elective for the club that met on school grounds but not during school hours.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation objected and sent a complaint letter threatening to sue, arguing that it is unconstitutional for school employees to participate.

The Bartlett City School District acknowledged that the Bible Club was being led by Christians who work for the school district, and that religious clubs must be sponsored by someone outside the school. The district disbanded the popular club.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) issued a statement saying it was "pleased" that the Bible Club was shut down, characterizing the club as "really just religious instruction by public school officials."

FFRF called the move "a victory not only for reason and the law but for the inviolable right of a captive audience of first- and second-grade students to be free from indoctrination in a public school setting."

Several families expressed disappointment and anger to local TV station WATN. They pointed out that the club was elective and took place before school, outside of school hours.

The school district shared that they are seeking an outside group to lead Bible Club for the next school year. A Bible Club for third-to-fifth graders at Altruria is run by an outside Christian group.

“The message they are sending these kids is there is something terribly wrong with you wanting to meet and discuss the Bible,” Center for Religious Expression attorney Nate Kellum said.

“Whether it’s the Cub Scouts, whether it’s the chess club, or whether it’s a Bible club, they should be able to do it.”

The Supreme Court has ruled that the U.S. Constitution allows “equal access” for religious groups.

Ironically, atheism would be disqualified under FFRF's criteria. An Oregon federal court ruled that humanism is a religion.

In 2014, Senior District Judge Ancer Haggerty defined humanism as a "philosophy free of belief in any gods and other supernatural forces" that should be legally recognized as a religion (American Humanist Association v. U.S.). The case was brought by a prison inmate who wanted to start a humanist study group.

“The court finds that secular humanism is a religion for establishment clause purposes,” Haggerty ruled.
 

atlkvb

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wow...

BARTLETT, Tennessee, May 8, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) — A popular student Bible Club has been shut down after a complaint from atheists.

Dozens of first and second graders at Altruria Elementary chose to be a part of "Bible Club," which met before school. Participation was elective for the club that met on school grounds but not during school hours.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation objected and sent a complaint letter threatening to sue, arguing that it is unconstitutional for school employees to participate.

The Bartlett City School District acknowledged that the Bible Club was being led by Christians who work for the school district, and that religious clubs must be sponsored by someone outside the school. The district disbanded the popular club.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) issued a statement saying it was "pleased" that the Bible Club was shut down, characterizing the club as "really just religious instruction by public school officials."

FFRF called the move "a victory not only for reason and the law but for the inviolable right of a captive audience of first- and second-grade students to be free from indoctrination in a public school setting."

Several families expressed disappointment and anger to local TV station WATN. They pointed out that the club was elective and took place before school, outside of school hours.

The school district shared that they are seeking an outside group to lead Bible Club for the next school year. A Bible Club for third-to-fifth graders at Altruria is run by an outside Christian group.

“The message they are sending these kids is there is something terribly wrong with you wanting to meet and discuss the Bible,” Center for Religious Expression attorney Nate Kellum said.

“Whether it’s the Cub Scouts, whether it’s the chess club, or whether it’s a Bible club, they should be able to do it.”

The Supreme Court has ruled that the U.S. Constitution allows “equal access” for religious groups.

Ironically, atheism would be disqualified under FFRF's criteria. An Oregon federal court ruled that humanism is a religion.

In 2014, Senior District Judge Ancer Haggerty defined humanism as a "philosophy free of belief in any gods and other supernatural forces" that should be legally recognized as a religion (American Humanist Association v. U.S.). The case was brought by a prison inmate who wanted to start a humanist study group.

“The court finds that secular humanism is a religion for establishment clause purposes,” Haggerty ruled.

See...no one "restricts" Christian kids' ability to meet at school and talk about the Bible. No one "forces" secularism onto people against their will.

Remember that argument we were having on here just a few weeks ago when Leftists were making those false claims about Public schools?

Wonder where those same folks are on this story?
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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wow...

BARTLETT, Tennessee, May 8, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) — A popular student Bible Club has been shut down after a complaint from atheists.

Dozens of first and second graders at Altruria Elementary chose to be a part of "Bible Club," which met before school. Participation was elective for the club that met on school grounds but not during school hours.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation objected and sent a complaint letter threatening to sue, arguing that it is unconstitutional for school employees to participate.

The Bartlett City School District acknowledged that the Bible Club was being led by Christians who work for the school district, and that religious clubs must be sponsored by someone outside the school. The district disbanded the popular club.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) issued a statement saying it was "pleased" that the Bible Club was shut down, characterizing the club as "really just religious instruction by public school officials."

FFRF called the move "a victory not only for reason and the law but for the inviolable right of a captive audience of first- and second-grade students to be free from indoctrination in a public school setting."

Several families expressed disappointment and anger to local TV station WATN. They pointed out that the club was elective and took place before school, outside of school hours.

The school district shared that they are seeking an outside group to lead Bible Club for the next school year. A Bible Club for third-to-fifth graders at Altruria is run by an outside Christian group.

“The message they are sending these kids is there is something terribly wrong with you wanting to meet and discuss the Bible,” Center for Religious Expression attorney Nate Kellum said.

“Whether it’s the Cub Scouts, whether it’s the chess club, or whether it’s a Bible club, they should be able to do it.”

The Supreme Court has ruled that the U.S. Constitution allows “equal access” for religious groups.

Ironically, atheism would be disqualified under FFRF's criteria. An Oregon federal court ruled that humanism is a religion.

In 2014, Senior District Judge Ancer Haggerty defined humanism as a "philosophy free of belief in any gods and other supernatural forces" that should be legally recognized as a religion (American Humanist Association v. U.S.). The case was brought by a prison inmate who wanted to start a humanist study group.

“The court finds that secular humanism is a religion for establishment clause purposes,” Haggerty ruled.
Actually the school district shut down the club.
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
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They always do to FFRF. Noone has the resources to fight them.
I don't think that anyone had to fight them but they were going to have to bring in non-school personnel to oversee club meetings and apparently that was too big of a hassle or they couldn't find anyone.
 

TarHeelEer

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I don't think that anyone had to fight them but they were going to have to bring in non-school personnel to oversee club meetings and apparently that was too big of a hassle or they couldn't find anyone.

My understanding is they're lining that up for next school year, too late in this year to worry about it.
 

CAJUNEER_rivals

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My understanding is they're lining that up for next school year, too late in this year to worry about it.
I think the teachers who sponsored the club have a civil rights case against the school board. Why should a citizen not be alllowed to exercise one's freedom of religion while not "on duty" as an employee of government? Equal access to the school facilities is a right. They've got a case.
 

atlkvb

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The statement is true, the school district folded like chairs.

I wonder if those tykes were holding Sierra club meetings in the mornings to talk about "environmental responsibility" preserving "Mother Gaia" or working to find ways to prevent "climate change" would those atheistic Parents and that activist group (FFRF) have a problem with it?

The Religious environmentalism and worship of the Earth probably is not as bothersome to them as Religious worship of the Creator and what's been created.

So they're apparently not as anti-Religious as they protest...just 'anti' a certain type of Religion.
 
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TarHeelEer

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I think the teachers who sponsored the club have a civil rights case against the school board. Why should a citizen not be alllowed to exercise one's freedom of religion while not "on duty" as an employee of government? Equal access to the school facilities is a right. They've got a case.

Parkersburg South almost went that direction when FFRF stepped in with the wrestling team. It wasn't worth the effort to them after the t-shirt sales took off, though.
 

CAJUNEER_rivals

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I wonder if those tykes were holding Sierra club meetings in the mornings to talk about "environmental responsibility" "preserving "Mother Gaia" or "working to find ways to prevent "climate change" those atheistic Parents and that activist group (FFRF) would have had a 'problem' with it?

The Religious environmentalism and worship of the Earth is not as bothersome to them as a Religion of the Creator and worship of what's been created.

So they're not as anti-Religious as they protest...just 'anti' a certain type of Religion....the genuine article apparently.
The 7th Federal Court of Appeals said atheism is a religion. Atheist groups get tax exempt status as religious organizations.
 

atlkvb

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Parkersburg South almost went that direction when FFRF stepped in with the wrestling team. It wasn't worth the effort to them after the t-shirt sales took off, though.

They can't learn about Godly chastity, but apparently teaching them how to roll condoms over bananas is a more valuable use of time to instruct them.
 

TarHeelEer

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They can't learn about Godly chastity, but apparently teaching them how to roll condoms over bananas is a more valuable use of time to instruct them.

South's case was more personal than religious. The team adopted a Bible verse, in response to a prior coach having a child die. That verse ended up as part of the program, and still is, for... wow, 20 years now. FFRF only strengthened that resolve.
 

atlkvb

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South's case was more personal than religious. The team adopted a Bible verse, in response to a prior coach having a child die. That verse ended up as part of the program, and still is, for... wow, 20 years now. FFRF only strengthened that resolve.

Good. Maybe their tombstones can be a reminder of their non belief:

"Here lies a great example of an essentially meaningless Life based on belief in nothing"
 

atlkvb

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This is a very strict definition. Separate atheism, postmodern humanism, and their resulting science as three different entities.

All cut from the same cloth wrapped around the same deity. Anti-Christ.
 

Boomboom521

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I wonder if those tykes were holding Sierra club meetings in the mornings to talk about "environmental responsibility" preserving "Mother Gaia" or working to find ways to prevent "climate change" would those atheistic Parents and that activist group (FFRF) have a problem with it?

The Religious environmentalism and worship of the Earth probably is not as bothersome to them as Religious worship of the Creator and what's been created.

So they're apparently not as anti-Religious as they protest...just 'anti' a certain type of Religion.
See.....then you take it somewhere that presses division
 

atlkvb

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See.....then you take it somewhere that presses division

boom they (activists) started it. I wouldn't have a problem with those little kids meeting to discuss their obligations to care for their environment, but who were they harming meeting before school to talk about their appreciation for the Creator of it?
 

atlkvb

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Not teaching Christianity doesn't mean that atheism is being taught.

No, but teaching "there is no God" is not the absence of teaching atheism.

Reaching that conclusion, without allowing further investigation of the claim is not "teaching" boom, it's "indoctrination".
 

Boomboom521

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No, but teaching "there is no God" is not the absence of teaching atheism.

Reaching that conclusion, without allowing further investigation of the claim is not "teaching" boom, it's "indoctrination".
Teachers are not teaching children that there is no God, that's ridiculous!
 

bornaneer

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CLIFTON PARK, N.Y. – Shenendehowa High School Principal Donald Flynt recently sent a letter to parents that explained Muslim prayer and introduced two new prayer rooms to accommodate Muslim students.

It didn’t sit well with many folks.

“Since prayer for other religions was removed from school years ago, I feel as Shen has crossed the line on allowing this on campus,” an unidentified parent wrote in to WRGB.
 

bornaneer

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For at least 30 minutes every weekday for the past seven years, a classroom at Liberty High School in Frisco, Texas, gets transformed into an on-campus mosque.

At least a dozen students use the “Muslim prayer room” between 2:05 and 2:35 p.m. Monday through Friday.
 

Boomboom521

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CLIFTON PARK, N.Y. – Shenendehowa High School Principal Donald Flynt recently sent a letter to parents that explained Muslim prayer and introduced two new prayer rooms to accommodate Muslim students.

It didn’t sit well with many folks.

“Since prayer for other religions was removed from school years ago, I feel as Shen has crossed the line on allowing this on campus,” an unidentified parent wrote in to WRGB.
Absolutely wrong to bring prayers into class.
 

atlkvb

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Teachers are not teaching children that there is no God, that's ridiculous!

Boom you are either being intellectually dishonest or a liar if you are willing to stand by this statement.

You emphatically state this as one of your fundamental beliefs posting on this board. You telling me you don't pass that on to your students?

You let them know you could be wrong about that?

Give me a break.
 

Boomboom521

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For at least 30 minutes every weekday for the past seven years, a classroom at Liberty High School in Frisco, Texas, gets transformed into an on-campus mosque.

At least a dozen students use the “Muslim prayer room” between 2:05 and 2:35 p.m. Monday through Friday.
If a part of a club, like the one that was ridiculously shut down, and after school hours, I don't have a problem with prayer. Just not in class, not during school hours, and not organized and lead by teachers or administrators.
 

Boomboom521

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Boom you are either being intellectually dishonest or a liar if you are willing to stand by this statement.

You emphatically state this as one of your fundamental beliefs posting on this board. You telling me you don't pass that on to your students?

You let them know you could be wrong about that?

Give me a break.
I don't discuss the existence of a higher being! That's absolutely not the place of an educator. I believe in a higher being, bye, just not yours! Although religious motivation is discussed often in my classroom, when we discuss the crusades, manifest destiny, Native American life, etc.... I would NEVER impose a spiritual or religious belief on my students....under NO circumstances! If you think my personal beliefs can't be keep out of my lesson plans, and my voice in a classroom with teenagers.....you must just have no true patience or maturity at all. I take what I do very seriously.
 

atlkvb

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If you think my personal beliefs can't be keep out of my lesson plans, and my voice in a classroom with teenagers.....you must just have no true patience or maturity at all. I take what I do very seriously.

I don't doubt that boom, and I think you're probably a very good teacher because you do at least appear to care about what you're teaching.

Good for you.

But let me go one step further with you on this to gauge how much intellectual curiosity you are willing to spark in your classroom for your students?

Do you instruct them to at least reach "no conclusion" on the topic? In other words, do you at least allow them to consider the possibility that your belief in some "other" form of Spirituality could be in error, and that in fact those who believe in the Spiritual God of the Bible is also at least worth investigating?

Are both intellectual pursuits given equal weight in your classroom without your opinions slanted Pro or Con one way or the other?

Do you consider the investigation of Christianity's claims to be a valid intellectual pursuit worth your student's effort, even if you don't personally believe it to be a valid conclusion they will ever reach? Do you promote that?

Your answer isn't as crucial to me as it is to the entire construct of public education and what in my opinion is so wrong with it.

That is, conclusions about social justice, environmental stewardship, racial equality, economic fairness, and a host of other socially Leftist positions are often taught to Government controlled students without an aggressive comparison to competing or alternative philosophies.

Free market capitalism is not taught as the basis of our economic system, but rather as a way for the masses to be exploited by evil rich companies. Racial equality (inequality) based on our common connection as created human beings is not taught as a fundamental underpinning of our Judeo Christian heritage, but rather as a result of our history of discrimination and unfairness by Religious zealots who used their beliefs to oppress lower classes of people.

In summation, teaching "conclusions" or making "statements" about how our our society is organized or even should be is not encouraging intellectual diversity or curiosity boomer.

Rather in my opinion, it is normalizing Leftist ideology and encouraging sensitivity of students toward only one way of thinking, which inevitably places the supremacy of Man and the State above all other possibilities of Truth for students.

Which do you encourage?
 

Boomboom521

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So at the very least you're trying to convince me they at least consider the possibility right boom?
If a student asks me about it, I reference the many beliefs systems in practice in the world, and refer to it as an individual quest that should be taken with help from SPIRITUAL guides, not from someone teaching high school anything.
 

atlkvb

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[QUOTE="Boomboom521, post: 1556641, member: 14642"]I don't discuss the existence of a higher being![/QUOTE]

That is a conclusion that if you are honest should not be excluded from your instruction. Suppose there really IS a higher being, or several maybe?

If you've concluded there is not, why would you restrict its investigation of possibly being true from your students if you are honest that you encourage their intellectual curiosity?

Shouldn't all possibilities be given equal weight, and an aggressive pursuit to ferret out that which is accurate and that which is incorrect be the true mission of your educational guidance?

Why restrict or close off discussion of one feasible possibility?
 

atlkvb

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If a student asks me about it, I reference the many beliefs systems in practice in the world, and refer to it as an individual quest that should be taken with help from SPIRITUAL guides, not from someone teaching high school anything.


OK, I'll accept that.

What about free market entrepreneurial capitalism?

What do you teach them about profits? What they are for? What are stocks, investments, risk, dividends?

Good, bad?

Why do businesses exist? What are costs? How do they grow? What is a market? How does it operate? How is it regulated? How do businesses respond to it?

Should it be "controlled"? How? Why?