Avengers
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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This guy thinks it was spectacular.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/05/01/avengers-age-of-ultron-review-simply-spectacular/
http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/05/01/avengers-age-of-ultron-review-simply-spectacular/
I just got back from seeing it. I would call it spectacular as well, but in the true "spectacle" sense of the word. As a huge fan of the superhero movies and shows, my feelings about this one are a little mixed. It feels like the same movie as the first Avengers film--it deals with a lot of the same issues for the heroes, the bad guy's MO seems pretty similar, and the big battle ends up feeling essentially the same. The word I keep hearing is "overstuffed," and I think that's accurate. I love the small moments, the ones where the heroes are sitting around talking and enjoying each other's company. Of course I love the battles, but the bombast feels sort of retreaded. And it seems like, because Hawkeye was kind of shafted (no pun intended) in the first film, there was a conscious effort to give everyone their own story in this one. In all, I definitely enjoyed it, but this felt more like a bridge movie than any of the other Marvel movies--a bridge leading to Captain America: Civil War and, more overtly than any previous Marvel movie, to the next chapter in the Infinity Stones saga (BTW, there is a mid-credits scene but no post-credits scene).
Ok, well I liked it. A lot. Yeah, it's visually intense, and I don't need that much to really enjoy these movies, but I'm also not 15 anymore.
I would like to see them do one of these without destroying an entire city once. Falling things everywhere don't particularly excite me.
Acting, screenwriting, plot and character development are all still fantastic.
Too much like the first one? Maybe. How long has the world been reading Marvel Comics though? It fits the mold, and it fits it well.
I would like to see them do one of these without destroying an entire city once. Falling things everywhere don't particularly excite me.
Acting, screenwriting, plot and character development are all still fantastic.
Too much like the first one? Maybe. How long has the world been reading Marvel Comics though? It fits the mold, and it fits it well.
I'm not sure we actually disagree on anything other than how much we enjoyed it.
It does feel a lot like the first one. That is both a good and a bad thing.
Same issues for the Heroes? Same difficulty working together, and that is frustrating, but individually we've got some new stuff for a few of them (or continued from movies since the first Avengers). Stark's character picks up from the end of Iron Man 3 and stuff we learned about his role in picking up the pieces of SHIELD. Hawkeye actually has some story. Romanov and Banner get some more development in a direction that was a bit of a surprise for me. Cap and Thor are fairly straight forward though. This is the fourth movie for both though.
What is the same and very frustrating is the mind control plot mechanic. They did not spend as much time playing with it thankfully.
I can't remember Loki's objective well enough to say it was too similar to Ultron. Dominion vs extinction?
Overstuffed... Yes and no. There is very limited time to play with several very large characters as well as introducing the new ones and chameos or limited appearances by other established characters within the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The line where Agent Hill asks Stark and Thor where the ladies were was funny to me because Paltrow and Portman may literally be the only ones that didn't show up by that point. We did not get to explore Quicksilver and the the Witxh as much as we could have, and following so many characters in the finale got stretched out too much. On the other hand, this isn't Spider Man 3 where we have to get used to three (four) Villians sharing the screen just because. We don't need a lot of development for Stark, Cap, Thor or Romanov. They've each been in four or five of these already. It doesn't feel forced to me that they spend time with Brody, the Falcon or Masterson for instance. Those are established characters as well, and established as integral to who these heroes are when they're not being Avengers. Still, there is certainly a lot happening, and too much I'd imagine for viewers that haven't seen the 8 other Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Avengers movies.
Lots of great lines still in these movies, and you're right that the best parts are the dialogue between the heroes (or between them and Ultron).
The final conflict does feel a LOT like the Battle of New York. We will get something different with Thanos eventually. I question the wisdom of doing Ultron first because of this. It's not exactly the heroes vs overwhelming numbers again since it's all literally Ultron anyway, but it still looks exactly like that on screen. We are saved a bit by seeing some new powers on exhibit, and it's never going to get old watching Hulk smash stuff.
That said, I read a lot of criticisms that suggested this final battle was stale because once again nothing was really at stake while the movie wanted us to feel like everything was at stake. I couldn't disagree with that line of thinking more. Although it looked the same we did get some real change by the time it was over I think (as in the paths of some of the characters was changed).
I'd kind of agree that it's a bridge movie. A bridge closer to IG, but more toward the second generation of the Avengers.
It does feel a lot like the first one. That is both a good and a bad thing.
Same issues for the Heroes? Same difficulty working together, and that is frustrating, but individually we've got some new stuff for a few of them (or continued from movies since the first Avengers). Stark's character picks up from the end of Iron Man 3 and stuff we learned about his role in picking up the pieces of SHIELD. Hawkeye actually has some story. Romanov and Banner get some more development in a direction that was a bit of a surprise for me. Cap and Thor are fairly straight forward though. This is the fourth movie for both though.
What is the same and very frustrating is the mind control plot mechanic. They did not spend as much time playing with it thankfully.
I can't remember Loki's objective well enough to say it was too similar to Ultron. Dominion vs extinction?
Overstuffed... Yes and no. There is very limited time to play with several very large characters as well as introducing the new ones and chameos or limited appearances by other established characters within the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The line where Agent Hill asks Stark and Thor where the ladies were was funny to me because Paltrow and Portman may literally be the only ones that didn't show up by that point. We did not get to explore Quicksilver and the the Witxh as much as we could have, and following so many characters in the finale got stretched out too much. On the other hand, this isn't Spider Man 3 where we have to get used to three (four) Villians sharing the screen just because. We don't need a lot of development for Stark, Cap, Thor or Romanov. They've each been in four or five of these already. It doesn't feel forced to me that they spend time with Brody, the Falcon or Masterson for instance. Those are established characters as well, and established as integral to who these heroes are when they're not being Avengers. Still, there is certainly a lot happening, and too much I'd imagine for viewers that haven't seen the 8 other Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Avengers movies.
Lots of great lines still in these movies, and you're right that the best parts are the dialogue between the heroes (or between them and Ultron).
The final conflict does feel a LOT like the Battle of New York. We will get something different with Thanos eventually. I question the wisdom of doing Ultron first because of this. It's not exactly the heroes vs overwhelming numbers again since it's all literally Ultron anyway, but it still looks exactly like that on screen. We are saved a bit by seeing some new powers on exhibit, and it's never going to get old watching Hulk smash stuff.
That said, I read a lot of criticisms that suggested this final battle was stale because once again nothing was really at stake while the movie wanted us to feel like everything was at stake. I couldn't disagree with that line of thinking more. Although it looked the same we did get some real change by the time it was over I think (as in the paths of some of the characters was changed).
I'd kind of agree that it's a bridge movie. A bridge closer to IG, but more toward the second generation of the Avengers.
I saw A-2 yesterday. I enjoyed it, but didn't think it was as strong as some of the other Marvel movies. As stated above, there were a lot of similarities to A-1 and there was less snappy banter/funny moments. There were also tangential moments that didn't seem like they belonged in this movie (i.e. Thor's visit to the mystical pool). This movie felt a lot like it was all about setting the stage for the next phase of Marvel movies, and that was a negative for me.
I did like what I saw of the new heroes. (Vision, SW, QS), and I think Cheadle/War Machine is a great character. Would have liked to see more of The Falcon. Why not have him show up with War Machine and help protect the Heli-carrier in the final battle scene?
I did like what I saw of the new heroes. (Vision, SW, QS), and I think Cheadle/War Machine is a great character. Would have liked to see more of The Falcon. Why not have him show up with War Machine and help protect the Heli-carrier in the final battle scene?
Well I showed up to the Imax on Sunday afternoon for the first showing of the day and the girl laughed at me when I tried to get tickets. I guess I am going to have to learn to buy tickets online for this stuff.... Now I get to have the movie spoiled by AOS. dag gumit
For me being a comic book geek the "tangential" moments you speak of are what I love most. Thor visiting the Waters of Sight was hugely important to the future story lines. This will lead in to the fall of Asgard (which Loki is now ruling) and Ragnarok. Tony Stark's dream leads in to Civil War. The new characters combined with the coming movies like Ant Man and Inhumans will set up the New Avengers. This Avengers movie was awesome. It played on the Avengers coming together and the undertow of knowing that something big is coming that they cannot stop. Ultron says he has no strings, but the end credits scene gives you a clue as to who IS really pulling everyones's strings. Thanos is coming for all the stones now and will weild the infinity gauntlet which leads to the infinity wars. The infinity gauntlet is in the trophy room on Asgard along with another infinity stone, the Teserak. The Vision was always my favorite character. This dude is bad *** with a moral compass. Thanos is going to have to come get that infinity stone from the Vision. Ulysses Klaw and Black Panther have references in this movie.
The only thing really still annoying me a bit is the fact that they keep holding back the enhanced powers. The Vision can basically do anything he wants at any time and no one stands a chance against him. Scarlet Witch has powers that put any other Avenger to shame. Even in A.O.S. they hold Quake back. Tho they do make a couple of back-handed references to the strength of her powers like her mom saying "you can't hurt the mountain." In the comics the girl pratically rips the earth in half. They really need to start showing what the new Inhumans (a.k.a. The New Avengers) can really do. No one even realizes that they introduced Laura Barton, who is very important in the New Avengers/ Nick Fury story lines.
Aw that is good to know. I just remember the last time with CA2 they kinda let a few thing get spoiled so I kinda worried.
I wasn't going to spell it out, but I'm with BJ on the Thor thing. I get that it's a "cool" moment for comic book fans, and I count myself among them, but it didn't add anything to *this* movie and was confusing to boot. There was almost no explanation of what it was, how it worked, or what they were doing. There was essentially no reason for Thor to drag Selvig along. The whole thing screamed, "We wanted to shoehorn in this cameo and this scene because it's relevant in Thor 3, coming to a theater near you in November 2017."
Frankly, the whole movie felt like they planned out future movies and storylines--specifically, Black Panther, Captain America: Civil War, and Thor: Ragnarok--and backed into the plot and "side missions" for this one. Ultron himself was essentially the lever to set up Civil War, which would be fine, but it wasn't even handled that creatively, as the mind control stuff and final battle were essentially lifted straight from A1.
I'm guessing you aren't going to see the godlike powers of the comics depicted in the MCU. I mean, the Scarlet Witch essentially rewrote all of reality in the comics. Again, "cool," but it doesn't really make a ton of sense if you're trying to depict these characters struggling with external threats. And it makes the inclusion of the Hawkeye/Black Widow characters even more laughable when you have characters rewriting reality or lifting a finger and cracking open the earth. It's like Superman movies; you're never going to see him strong enough to juggle planets or whatever they had him doing in the 50s and 60s; it just makes for a boring movie.
Frankly, the whole movie felt like they planned out future movies and storylines--specifically, Black Panther, Captain America: Civil War, and Thor: Ragnarok--and backed into the plot and "side missions" for this one. Ultron himself was essentially the lever to set up Civil War, which would be fine, but it wasn't even handled that creatively, as the mind control stuff and final battle were essentially lifted straight from A1.
I'm guessing you aren't going to see the godlike powers of the comics depicted in the MCU. I mean, the Scarlet Witch essentially rewrote all of reality in the comics. Again, "cool," but it doesn't really make a ton of sense if you're trying to depict these characters struggling with external threats. And it makes the inclusion of the Hawkeye/Black Widow characters even more laughable when you have characters rewriting reality or lifting a finger and cracking open the earth. It's like Superman movies; you're never going to see him strong enough to juggle planets or whatever they had him doing in the 50s and 60s; it just makes for a boring movie.
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@BvillePoker
I realized that they were totally setting up the next Iron Man, Captain America and Thor movies. That was what I didn't like. I understand why they had to do it. There was just too much of it, that didn't really contribute to THIS movie, for my taste.
The Vision was always my favorite Avenger. I love what they have done with him. Putting Jarvis' consciousness into him. Putting one of the infinity gems into him. What they showed us of his powers. Showing a tiny bit of his interaction with The Scarlet Witch. It was all brilliantly done, IMO. I am very interested to see if he makes an appearance in CA3, IM4 or T3. I have a hard time imagining that we won't see him again until A3.
I realized that they were totally setting up the next Iron Man, Captain America and Thor movies. That was what I didn't like. I understand why they had to do it. There was just too much of it, that didn't really contribute to THIS movie, for my taste.
The Vision was always my favorite Avenger. I love what they have done with him. Putting Jarvis' consciousness into him. Putting one of the infinity gems into him. What they showed us of his powers. Showing a tiny bit of his interaction with The Scarlet Witch. It was all brilliantly done, IMO. I am very interested to see if he makes an appearance in CA3, IM4 or T3. I have a hard time imagining that we won't see him again until A3.
I think The Vision may have only references or tiny cameos in the films like Civil War, Thor 3, Black Panther all leading up to a major part in the Inhumans movie.
There is no IM4 currently on the plan. I guess Vision could show up in CA3. Much like CA2, that's supposed to be essentially another Avengers movie. I think it's confirmed to have Captain America, Black Widow, Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Falcon, War Machine, Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, at least a cameo from Black Panther, and it supposedly will introduce Spider-Man into the MCU proper.
With regards to Thor and the Pool...
Vague spoilers
At the moment it did seem superfluous, and I don't think I'd call it a particularly well done or explained scene. Later though, when Thor knew what to do and it broke the stalemate... That would have seemed completely out of the blue if Thor hadn't done something to explain unique insight gained somewhere.
Vague spoilers
At the moment it did seem superfluous, and I don't think I'd call it a particularly well done or explained scene. Later though, when Thor knew what to do and it broke the stalemate... That would have seemed completely out of the blue if Thor hadn't done something to explain unique insight gained somewhere.
But I thought the development of Clint Barton's character was very cool. Added a ton of depth there. Also a little surprised at what happened to the Hulk at the end. It was a very Banner-esque move.
Disclaimer: I've never read a Marvel comic book in my life.
Disclaimer: I've never read a Marvel comic book in my life.
I just read that there will be some spoilers on Agents of Shield in the coming weeks, FYI. Maybe you just DVR those and wait to watch them until you've seen the movie.
Anyone besides me surprised that Colson didn't appear in A2? I expected him to show up with Nick Fury and the others to be surprised that he is alive (shameless attempt to attract more viewers to AOS).
I was not surprised to not see Colson in the A2. I don't think they can deal with him coming back to life in the Avengers movies.
A
anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
Guest
Wheedon is on record saying he wished they'd kept Colson dead.
Ironman will be in CA3.
Loki was also supposed to appear in the film, but they cut it because too much was going on.
Ironman will be in CA3.
Loki was also supposed to appear in the film, but they cut it because too much was going on.
Whedon was quoted in an article today basically saying that Marvel forced him to cut much of the Thor cave scene in order to keep the farm scenes. He thought that the way it ended up being edited it was confusing and conveluded.
Whedon's quotes below.
"There was a 195-minute cut of this movie. The original scene was that Thor went to speak to the Norn and how it would work was that he’d go in the pool and the Norn possess him, basically, and Erik Selvig asks all the questions, and the Norn, speaking through Thor, give the answers. So Chris [Hemsworth] got to do something different, and he really threw himself into it, and he did a beautiful job, but it wasn’t well regarded by the test audiences and I feel it’s probably largely because it was a rough cut with no effects, but also because it’s something that in a Thor movie would work brilliantly, but in this movie is just a little too left of centre."
"The dreams were not an executive favorite. The dreams, the farmhouse, these were things I fought [for]. With the cave, they pointed a gun at the farm’s head and ‘Give us the cave’. They got the farm. In a civilized way – I respect these guys, but that’s when it got really unpleasant. There was a point when there was going to be no cave, and Thor was going to leave and come back and say, ‘I figured some stuff out.’ And at that point I was so beaten down, I was like, ‘Sure, okay… what movie is this?’ The editors were like, ‘No no, you have to show the thing, you just can’t say it.’ I was like, ‘Okay, thank you, we can figure this out!’ You can tell it was beaten down, but it was hard won."
"There was a 195-minute cut of this movie. The original scene was that Thor went to speak to the Norn and how it would work was that he’d go in the pool and the Norn possess him, basically, and Erik Selvig asks all the questions, and the Norn, speaking through Thor, give the answers. So Chris [Hemsworth] got to do something different, and he really threw himself into it, and he did a beautiful job, but it wasn’t well regarded by the test audiences and I feel it’s probably largely because it was a rough cut with no effects, but also because it’s something that in a Thor movie would work brilliantly, but in this movie is just a little too left of centre."
"The dreams were not an executive favorite. The dreams, the farmhouse, these were things I fought [for]. With the cave, they pointed a gun at the farm’s head and ‘Give us the cave’. They got the farm. In a civilized way – I respect these guys, but that’s when it got really unpleasant. There was a point when there was going to be no cave, and Thor was going to leave and come back and say, ‘I figured some stuff out.’ And at that point I was so beaten down, I was like, ‘Sure, okay… what movie is this?’ The editors were like, ‘No no, you have to show the thing, you just can’t say it.’ I was like, ‘Okay, thank you, we can figure this out!’ You can tell it was beaten down, but it was hard won."
Thanks for sharing that. I am guessing that the entire movie was shot before those decisions were made. Otherwise, it would have been easier to adjust on the fly and do a better job of explaining what the significance of the pool was and what exactly Thor figured out. As it ended up, the audience was forced to put 2 and 2 together, then to multiply that by a fraction and put the final answer into an algebraic equation to figure out what the heck was going on.
http://io9.com/the-entire-marvel-cinematic-universe-has-been-cast-in-c-1702873410
Vision confirmed for CA3, along with ... everyone in the entire MCU.
Vision confirmed for CA3, along with ... everyone in the entire MCU.
Holy crap. That is a crazy number of characters for 1 movie. Will be interesting to see if they can pull it off and make it good. Can't believe they haven't started filming and it is due to be released 1 year from now.
Marvel will always be second to DC in my book because of how they've turned Thor into nothing more than a weakling with a kick *** hammer. Lee said he was supposed to be the most powerful superhero in the universe. Instead he's a frail cripple who isn't worth a **** without mjolner, ghey.
Right... Dude has basically gone toe-to-toe with the Hulk, Ultron and Iron Man at different times and he's a wuss...
Anyway... Would like to see Dare Devil and Spider-Man in Civil War. The registration act isn't really a big deal to most of the Avengers. The whole world knows who a lot of them are anyway, and they have quite a strong support system in place. Star Lord is irrelevant since he's off planet. The X-Men don't exist in the MCU. If the Fantastic Four did their identities are public knowledge anyway.
Anyway, it's the smaller guys the Regiatration Act hits hard. The guys helping out their city's on the street level.
Speaking of the street level aspect... Are we going to see Cage before this? We may have got Spider-Man just in time. We don't have a Wolverine in te MCU. Minor sure how we'll see a New Avengers or underground Avengers team if we don't even have the characters.
Anyway... Would like to see Dare Devil and Spider-Man in Civil War. The registration act isn't really a big deal to most of the Avengers. The whole world knows who a lot of them are anyway, and they have quite a strong support system in place. Star Lord is irrelevant since he's off planet. The X-Men don't exist in the MCU. If the Fantastic Four did their identities are public knowledge anyway.
Anyway, it's the smaller guys the Regiatration Act hits hard. The guys helping out their city's on the street level.
Speaking of the street level aspect... Are we going to see Cage before this? We may have got Spider-Man just in time. We don't have a Wolverine in te MCU. Minor sure how we'll see a New Avengers or underground Avengers team if we don't even have the characters.
That's my point. Ironman shouldn't even be a challenge. The cripple I was referencing is when he is Blake. The movies haven't event come close to showing how powerful he can be. Don't know if that changed with this avengers movie. And take his hammer away. It seems like they've turned that into his sole source of power. Maybe I'm wrong.