Avery Brown
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Has the grades. The Ivy League schools have been after him for a while. The staff should disregard any awkwardness of seeing Brumbaugh when the scout Brown and just go after him. His coach gets the manifold benefits of helping to send a kid to a strong academic school, as do his parents.
I guarantee that there won't be any "awkwardness" with Brumbaugh, this is big time basketball. I'm sure our coaches are very much aware of Brown, especially since we recruited his teammates Hunger and Brumbaugh. If they think he's the right fit, I'm sure they'll offer him. The fact they haven't seems to imply they have some reservations.
True enough, but maybe 89 points over three games at 70% shooting percentage might change that? He's certainly rated a lot higher than Hunger.
Yeah that kind of hot streak will certainly get the attention of a lot of coaches, though I doubt they care what rating he has.
Collins track record of recruiting at the guard positions shows he has terrible judgment when it comes to making this type of decision.
Is this the part where we show an offer to Penn proving he has the academic chops to be accepted?
High school stats, especially over a short burst, probably don't mean as much to college recruiters. They are projecting the kid forward and trying to determine (guess) how he'll fare at the next level. Maybe there is something about this kid's game that they feel is limiting.
Much of it depends upon which opponents the performances were against. NMH is playing in a tournament right now that includes the ten best New England teams, and one of his biggest-scoring games happened in this tournament.
Just looking solely at the stats, Brown was putting up 10/11 PPG early in the season, when they did play IMG and some other headlining teams. For the last month or so, Brown has become the top scorer in the NMH backcourt, over Brumbaugh. Luke Hunger and Blair Thompson have been there the whole year in terms of scoring. I have no idea what the reason is for NU and others not pursuing Brown up to this point, but maybe it's because they expected more production early in the season? I find it hard to believe that as he takes on the scoring load, that he won't get more offers from high-majors.
These coaches certainly know a lot more than I do, but watching tape of NMH, I'm not convinced that Brumbaugh is the better long-term prospect. I think Brumbaugh's the better passer and dribbler. I think Brown is the better shooter. They're both listed at 6'4", but Brown looks longer to me. I've seen Brown dunk. I haven't seen Brumbaugh dunk. Brown looks to me to have more speed up and down the court. But I haven't watched much of either in the summer against the best in the country, so I may be missing things that Collins and staff have seen.
Just looking solely at the stats, Brown was putting up 10/11 PPG early in the season, when they did play IMG and some other headlining teams. For the last month or so, Brown has become the top scorer in the NMH backcourt, over Brumbaugh. Luke Hunger and Blair Thompson have been there the whole year in terms of scoring. I have no idea what the reason is for NU and others not pursuing Brown up to this point, but maybe it's because they expected more production early in the season? I find it hard to believe that as he takes on the scoring load, that he won't get more offers from high-majors.
These coaches certainly know a lot more than I do, but watching tape of NMH, I'm not convinced that Brumbaugh is the better long-term prospect. I think Brumbaugh's the better passer and dribbler. I think Brown is the better shooter. They're both listed at 6'4", but Brown looks longer to me. I've seen Brown dunk. I haven't seen Brumbaugh dunk. Brown looks to me to have more speed up and down the court. But I haven't watched much of either in the summer against the best in the country, so I may be missing things that Collins and staff have seen.
I disagree. He shows more ability going to the hoop and also shooting off the dribble.
The clips from his 34-point game show a tough, high-motor player with a variety of moves from 12 feet in, even though most of his points were against frankly questionable defensive effort and poor close-out skills (looking at you, number 25). I only saw one shot from distance, and at his size that would tell the tale. Do any of the clips show capable 3-point shooting?
HS production can be important, but college coaches are mainly looking for translatable skills and good positional size. Here in Michigan the cause celebre among recruiting experts for the past four years has been a smart, highly skilled 5'9" PG who averages about 30 points a game playing small-school basketball. But from what I've seen he's all midrange, and when I watched him play AAU against good, not great, competition he had trouble doing what you'd expect out of a small PG at the D1/D2 level.
HS production can be important, but college coaches are mainly looking for translatable skills and good positional size. Here in Michigan the cause celebre among recruiting experts for the past four years has been a smart, highly skilled 5'9" PG who averages about 30 points a game playing small-school basketball. But from what I've seen he's all midrange, and when I watched him play AAU against good, not great, competition he had trouble doing what you'd expect out of a small PG at the D1/D2 level.
There are several YouTube clips that show Brown with a smooth 3-point stroke, so I believe he has good range. He can dunk but doesn't have elite athleticism, certainly less so than Roper and Simmons, and more on par with Berry.
Wouldn't doubt this at all. He already has a lot of P6 options but maybe not the ones he sees himself playing at, or maybe he didn't jump early enough on his favorites.
OT: I'm so, so tired of HS players going on Twitter to talk about how they're being disrespected by college coaches. A senior who has/had over half a dozen D1 offers and played EYBL complaining about not being on a top 10 list or how his day is coming. Another with D3/NAIA options listing those schools publicly then complaining how he isn't being recruited, as if D3/NAIA schools will take anyone. With the additional covid year and transfer portal, class of 2022 players need to be grateful for any interest.
Oh, I'm not quibbling with your take on him. My question is, what are the better options? Nothing has been more overrated than the grad transfer boom. I've followed so many of those players as they moved up in competition. Most have turned out to be bit players, and whole lot of them have been straight duds. Then you're left with traditional transfers, but how many former top 50 recruits looking for a better place to showcase what they see as their squandered talent give NU a serious look? The bottom line is that Brown is one of three or four best combo guard options left.
Yeah, I was working on the assumption that this is what is going on. There are worse things I could say about a coach than saying that he's too devoted to helping a player get the best college offers he can get.
I gotta say, I wish NU’s staff decided they wanted Nance to get drafted, and then he magically started putting up 30-point nights.
You don’t ever take someone just because they’re the best left unless they’re only there for one year. Recruiting is all about not missing on who you take. That’s especially true is basketball. I haven’t watched this kids tape this isn’t a statement on him. Just recruiting. You take a grad transfer because if they don’t pan out they don’t affect the team for 4 years. If you take a hs recruit they could choose to stay and take up a spot for 4 years.
Actually, you do that all the time. So do successful coaches. The idea that you only lose out for one year if you spend a spot on an old man who can't play at this level is, of course, ludicrous. There is the opportunity cost of not taking a young prospect who might turn into a player with years of development in the program.
Additionally, having someone on the roster who can't play hurts the entire team's development, because competition in practice is so important. Look no further than Rapolas who, as I recall, just packed up midway through the year at Cincy when he was in over his head. Think that just hurt Cincy for one season?
Next question.
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So having someone on the roster for 4 years who can’t play hurts more
.Next question.
No, bringing in an 18 year-old gives you more time to develop that player. Is this really such a mind-boggling concept? Look down the road 70 miles to northern Indiana. There's a coach there who has made a career out of developing players over four years, and it's the one thing that has allowed them to compete while having many of the same disadvantages that NU has.So having someone on the roster for 4 years who can’t play hurts more
Next question.
Two quick examples: Dane Goodwin and Jack Cooley. He is now a potential All-ACC player in his fourth season. I think Miller Kopp could've had the same trajectory, with the right coaching. They were very similar in skillsets and in what they lack as players. The difference is that Goodwin received far better coaching.
When I saw Jack Cooley as a freshman, I thought, "This kid will never play. He's slow, he can barely jump over a phone book, he's totally overmatched." By his third year, he was the best rebounder in the Big East and all-conference material by his fourth year. They stuck with him and worked with him and those last two years, I don't know that there was a better rebounder or more physical big man in the country. There have been other guys at NU that could have been very good, but their coaches simply didn't develop them. I don't see many in the program improve a whole lot under Collins. Someone just mentioned this yesterday: Young was basically what he is when he first got there. I watched his HS tapes. It's mostly true. And the kid knows how to play. I couldn't believe the reduced minutes he was receiving earlier in the season. That kid could've been so good playing for other coaches, who would've taken his game to another level.
Bringing on any player who can't play hurts.
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You can’t possibly be saying Notre Dame has many of the same disadvantages that NU has? Absurd. They are examples of plenty of highly regarded players under’s Brey’s watch that were busts. Guess they weren’t developed.
Now, ND now has mostly a veteran team littered with players many of which were top. 100 recruits. NU has had 1 or 2 in its history. I had a Coach that used to say, “you can’t make velvet out of pigskin”. Harsh, but in a lot of ways true. Talent wins. NU has some nice players, but doesn’t have the star to take over,
Then you cite Miller Kopp. The same guy that averages 6 points and 2 rebounds at Indiana? Are we watching the same guy? I guess he has a different role at IU, but what exactly is it? Now he doesn’t do a thing but stand around the three hoping TJD kicks it too him. He can’t play any D at all and I guess the IU Coach can’t develop him either. Also, I don’t care if he goes off for 30 against NU, my opinion will not change. I’ve seen him too many games.
Young was the 350th ranked recruit in his class. If you think he came into NU with the same skill set he has now, I have some swamp land in FL to sell you. If you saw any practices his true freshman you would know he wasn’t the same guy he is now. He has improved significantly and most of the credit to should go to Young himself.
You can talk about lack of development all you want, but the examples you use are more an argument for the opposite. There are plenty of real examples. Recruiting is not an exact science. Hit and misses. The three best players on this team may not be what everyone wants them to be, but they sure are WAY better today than when they stepped on campus.
This article has definitely aged well, lol: https://247sports.com/college/india...dson-Shooting-Trayce-Jackson-Davis-172530365/
In October, everything is beautiful.
The sun is shining, the leaves are turning, there’s a bit of crisp in the morning air, and Miller Kopp is ready to expand his game, this year.
I really, really love the reference to his junior season - “three-point percentage fell slightly (from 40% to 33%!)”.
He’s only making 39% of his 2-point attempts, though he’s at the same on his 3-pointers.
I hope he’s happier. IU is winning. He was not happy at NU, and he was definitely misplaced as a top 3 option at NU.
I didn’t realize ND was winning this year.
You bring in your A-B list 18 year olds. Fill the rest with transfers. Audige and Williams have worked out better than a lot of the borderline freshman. If this staff is bad at developing talent like you at why would you want them to grab an 18 year old they’d have to develop.
I think that concept of needing someone to take over is very very NBA driven. Who takes over at MI? Just mentioned MI as it was the team we played.
Amazing team down the stretch over the last couple of years: Loyola. Who took over? Krutwig was the face of the program but I did not see him “take over” at the end of games. Watched quite a few and what I saw was a very disciplined team, continuing to stick to their offensive sets, not falling into dribbling for 15 seconds scared out of their minds. Mature offense continuing doing what they do all game, and not flinching because it was the end of the game. Which is what - gasp - well coached teams do. Overwhelming majority of games are not decided by a guy taking over, they are decided by a cool headed group that continues to be disciplined regardless of the time left on the clock.
I just looking at the games we lost. Michigan has been a disappointment. I think it is partially because they are still finding their roles. It is true they haven’t had that take over guy with Dickinson not assuming the role. I do believe Caleb Houston could be that guy very soon. Some other losses we got destroyed by a guy that was willing and capable it taking over. Davis on Wisconsin, Ayala on Maryland, Liddell on OSU, Lundy on PSU. Everyone in the building knew they were getting the ball and we couldn’t do a thing to stop them. Purdue would have been Ivey, but they have a team full of guys that could get the job done. Illinois will be Kofi, Curbelo or maybe even Plummer. Studs win games. The higher the level the more that is true. Boo is one of the few guys that looks like he is even willing to take a shot after the 4 minute time out. Pete has had good looks. A lot of them. He has to make those shots. Norman Dale is not winning the B1G with NU’s roster.
I didn’t play D1 hoops, Like you did, so I realize you have more experience and cred than I do, but I do believe there is more than one way to skin a Cat. I just believe a good system gets beat by good players over the long haul. NU losses because the other team has more talent.
Granted, Loyola is a good example for your argument. A superbly coached team. However, they had a team of fearless players. Custer was lights out in crunch time. Townes was exceptional under pressure. Even Richardson was clutch. Then you add two great young guys in Krutwig and Williamson and they have something. You can say that is because Moser got them there, might be fact, might not be. I do know, but this is a case I am willing to say the system was a big part of the results. I just think it’s a big exception to what is normal. You see a team like this come around once or twice a decade in the tourney.
Not saying you are wrong, I just disagree that it is as easy of a fix as some on here make it.
Oh it is not an easy fix at all. And I agree that Buie is the only one that clearly has no issue taking shots under pressure. He can be reckless but is also fearless.
It is not either something that is inherently easy to deal with for the players. But it gets better through repetition. Through having been there, living it over and over again. And that’s where it all gets confusing to me. Are our players psyches that fragile? They’ve been there, they’ve played many close games. Is the OOC schedule playing a role? Maybe, hard to say. Is it the coach? Is that in practice? Is that during the game, not transmitting the confidence they need? Is it an inferiority complex driven by the history of the program? It can’t be just luck, not when it happens so often.
I know that you are for sure right, at least on the fact that the alpha helps. Even if it might not be needed, at least to win 50% of close games. Butler 2019, as I went to most of their home games and saw the others on TV, it was amazing how many wins Kamar Baldwin gave them.
At some point I will do a deep dive on Butler post Stevens. The brief research pointed me to the fact that, at least rankings wise, we get significantly “better” players than they do. But they’ve won a lot more in a conference that is by no means easy.
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I think the one thing everyone can agree on is something needs to change if we expect better results. I actually thing it is multiple things. I don’t expect a victory Saturday. However, we should see much better results after that as we are punching more in our weight class. They won’t be easy wins, but most will be winnable games.
According to combes they'll be missing some key players, so this might be our best chance to beat them.