Ayo - Time to take a step back from the edge.

[Max_Power]

Per this article, five visits in near future: WF, Kansas, Illinois, Xavier and NU. Says good things about everybody.

“At the end of the day I am going to go to a school where I feel like it has what I like,” he said. “I want to go play my game so whatever school that is, that will be the school I pick.”

Will be hard to root against this kid if he goes another direction (unless he goes to Illinois).

http://www.madehoops.com/news_article/show/804166?referrer_id=1272156

 

[SmellyCat]

This isn't bad. I like his academic confidence (goes well with his athletic confidence).

Nance is visiting June 27. Maybe Ayo should come at the same time and they can be buddy-buddy and commit together. A man can dream.

 

[Sec_112]

If those are his five official visits, I don't hate NU's chances - especially if he leaves Kansas eithout a commitment.

I wonder if the Illinois or NU trip is unofficial.

Thanks for the info, Max.

 

[rwhitney014]

Cliche alert:

Sometimes it's about the company you keep. A rising tide can lift all boats.

I hope Illinois' boat has a hole in it.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

You don't hate NU's chances against one of the all-time great college basketball programs and perennial final four contenders??? I hope you are right, but you have a lot more confidence than me!

 

[NJCat]

You don't hate NU's chances against one of the all-time great college basketball programs and perennial final four contenders??? I hope you are right, but you have a lot more confidence than me!

The thing about Kansas is who else they have offered. Right now they have offers to 6 Guards who are higher rated than AD, who all have interest level "Warm". I worry less about Kansas than the other 3 schools.

 

[willycat]

The thing about Kansas is who else they have offered. Right now they have offers to 6 Guards who are higher rated than AD, who all have interest level "Warm". I worry less about Kansas than the other 3 schools.

has he received an offer from Kansas? If so...worry.

 

[NJCat]

has he received an offer from Kansas? If so...worry.

Yes, he has a Kansas offer. But so do many other highly recruited Guards.KU has 25 offers out for 3 scholarship spots. 22 kids are going somewhere else.

 

[vmloza34]

If he really wants playing time right away I really dont see why he'd go to Kansas or Illinois. I never understood why Illinois is in contention with all their PGs if someone can explain? Wake Forest I dont think would be competition so its between NU and Xavier, I like our chances but by no means expecting anything.

 

[Sec_112]

You don't hate NU's chances against one of the all-time great college basketball programs and perennial final four contenders??? I hope you are right, but you have a lot more confidence than me!

I wouldn't call it confidence at all.

I'd bet Self's goal is to get Ayo to commit while on campus on that visit. If he doesn't, things are up for grabs.

Remember how many times Nojel Eastern was on MSU's campus and how supposedly automatic his commitment to MSU was?

We'll see. That will be the first of many hurdles for Ayo.

 

[NJCat]

Wake Forest I dont think would be competition so its between NU and Xavier.

Why not Wake? Private school like NU, play in the best BB conference (ACC), have a beautiful home arena which seats >6,800, former NCAA Champ and NBAer head coach Danny Manning, academics not as challenging as NU's (my daughter went to Wake undergrad and to NU for grad school so I know). You look in the rafters of LJVM Coliseum and see among others the jerseys of Tim Duncan and Chris Paul. You look in the rafters of WRA and see the sky (just kidding). I worry about Wake more than KU.

 

[SmellyCat]

Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss Wake either.

I think this quintet is rather interesting. You've got one big-time blueblood. Small academic schools in big basketball conferences. A big state school with a new coach who seems to be recruiting well. It's not clear what he's going after. If he just wants the best chance of winning a championship, I don't think there's anyone here who can disagree that KU is the place to go. If he values an education more, KU is probably the worst school on the list. It's just weird to see KU vs. NU for any recruit because of how different the schools are, but NU vs. Wake Forest makes a lot of sense, and I'd expect we'll go up against them a lot more in the coming years.

 

[vmloza34]

Why not Wake? Private school like NU, play in the best BB conference (ACC), have a beautiful home arena which seats >6,800, former NCAA Champ and NBAer head coach Danny Manning, academics not as challenging as NU's (my daughter went to Wake undergrad and to NU for grad school so I know). You look in the rafters of LJVM Coliseum and see among others the jerseys of Tim Duncan and Chris Paul. You look in the rafters of WRA and see the sky (just kidding). I worry about Wake more than KU.

You offer lots of valid points. I wasnt aware of the arena. I just feel we're similar situations but we're superior at every aspect (except history).

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

Everything you say about Wake and tradition is well taken. Especially the point about Duncan and Chris Paul. I would imagine for a young Point Guard, the image of CP looms pretty large. But, I'm curious regarding the academics. Northwestern is a top 15 university, Wake is top 25. I think it's really interesting that your daughter noticed a meaningful difference. It's always been my impression that the differences between schools 10 or so spots in rankings is pretty miniscule. I mean even between Yale and whatever school is #10 (MIT, Dartmouth etc) the workload and types of students are probably similar.

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

NU is a 45 minute drive, Wake is an airplane - another factor may be whether he wants to get away and try something new or be near home, easy for going home for visits, have family and friends come to games etc.

 

[Medill90]

NU is a 45 minute drive, Wake is an airplane - another factor may be whether he wants to get away and try something new or be near home, easy for going home for visits, have family and friends come to games etc.

Some kids want to get away from their parents for a few years which is fine. But having grown up on the South side of Chicago, Evanston and NU's campus is as far away, in some respects, as Wake Forest. I'd add that the private school piece, focus on graduating players and the Chicago alumni network make NU unique, compared to other local D1 schools. I think history has shown it's a better life choice.

Wanted to bring up a wild card: Tino Malnati. Tina was a decent player at New Trier, took care of the ball and was an effective distributor. It's curious to me that he red shirted his freshman year. I remember when Bill Carmody said he regretted not redshirting Reggie Hearn. What is the purpose of turning a potential four year walk-on into a five year walk on other than the staff thinks he may be able to contribute? Not rhetorical, really curious.

 

[Max_Power]

Wanted to bring up a wild card: Tino Malnati. Tina was a decent player at New Trier, took care of the ball and was an effective distributor. It's curious to me that he red shirted his freshman year. I remember when Bill Carmody said he regretted not redshirting Reggie Hearn. What is the purpose of turning a potential four year walk-on into a five year walk on other than the staff thinks he may be able to contribute? Not rhetorical, really curious.[/QUOTE]

Answer: Yes

 

[EvanstonCat]

Wanted to bring up a wild card: Tino Malnati. Tina was a decent player at New Trier, took care of the ball and was an effective distributor. It's curious to me that he red shirted his freshman year. I remember when Bill Carmody said he regretted not redshirting Reggie Hearn. What is the purpose of turning a potential four year walk-on into a five year walk on other than the staff thinks he may be able to contribute? Not rhetorical, really curious.

Answer: Yes[/QUOTE]

Explain.

 

[Max_Power]

EvanstonCat: "the staff thinks he may be able to contribute?" Yes.

 

[hdhntr1]

Everything you say about Wake and tradition is well taken. Especially the point about Duncan and Chris Paul. I would imagine for a young Point Guard, the image of CP looms pretty large. But, I'm curious regarding the academics. Northwestern is a top 15 university, Wake is top 25. I think it's really interesting that your daughter noticed a meaningful difference. It's always been my impression that the differences between schools 10 or so spots in rankings is pretty miniscule. I mean even between Yale and whatever school is #10 (MIT, Dartmouth etc) the workload and types of students are probably similar.

Meaningful differnece between undergrad and grad school. Who would have thought?

 

[Gladeskat]

Meaningful differnece between undergrad and grad school. Who would have thought?

Grad school is usually much easier.

 

[NJCat]

Grad school is usually much easier.

That was my experience. And since I did both undergrad and grad work at NU I can tell you it was MUCH harder to get grades as an undergrad. Same professors freely gave out A's as long as you made an effort in a grad course. They weren't so kind to undergrads.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Answer: Yes

Explain.[/QUOTE]

Hey, when is that big announcement that you promised last year? Can I stop waiting yet?

 

[hdhntr1]

That was my experience. And since I did both undergrad and grad work at NU I can tell you it was MUCH harder to get grades as an undergrad. Same professors freely gave out A's as long as you made an effort in a grad course. They weren't so kind to undergrads.

Grades, yes. But you also have a stronger knowledge base so it might just seem easier.

 

[NUCat320]

But, I'm curious regarding the academics. Northwestern is a top 15 university, Wake is top 25. I think it's really interesting that your daughter noticed a meaningful difference.

I assume Fitz is an NU alum, and his daughter got better grades at Wake than he did at NU.

FitzPhile's conclusion: "NU is way harder."

Correct conclusion: "Fitz's daughter is way smarter."

 

[EvanstonCat]

Explain.

Hey, when is that big announcement that you promised last year? Can I stop waiting yet?[/QUOTE]

Yes. My sources proved to be wrong. They thought we were going to land Goodwin.

 

[CommodoresAndCats]

Hey, when is that big announcement that you promised last year? Can I stop waiting yet?

Yes. My sources proved to be wrong. They thought we were going to land Goodwin.[/QUOTE]

We were until SLU hired his coach... oh well

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Northwestern is a top 15 university, Wake is top 25. I think it's really interesting that your daughter noticed a meaningful difference. It's always been my impression that the differences between schools 10 or so spots in rankings is pretty miniscule.

You seem to be assuming that the USNews ranking is universally accepted, or the only major college ranking, and/or largely in agreement with other reputable rankings. None of the above is true.

The difference between NU and WF is much larger in other very reputable rankings. To cite one, in the worldwide Times Higher Ed ranking (THE), which is sponsored by the WSJ when particularized to US schools, NU is 10th in the US, whereas WF doesn't even crack the top 50 (has a #55 ranking, pretty good in the big scheme of things but pretty far from the top 10). When considering worldwide standing, the gap widens considerably. NU only drops 10 spots, to an impressive #20 in the world. WF drops all the way down to #201.
In terms of academic/scientific prestige, I suspect most agree the THE ranking is much closer to the truth in this case.

All that said, whether WF and NU seem equivalent to the average 17-y.o. recruit is another matter. I'd hope the NU coaching staff will be able to point out and emphasize the worldwide advantages of an NU degree.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Grades, yes. But you also have a stronger knowledge base so it might just seem easier.

It may depend on the field. I doubt many grad students in technical fields (engineering, econ, etc) feel grad schools is softer than undergrad (other things being equal).

That said, in US grad schools one needs a B average to be in good standing. You cannot remain in grad school by earning many C's (every C needs be to counterbalanced by an A, so that the average doesn't drop below B). OTOH, an undergrad GPA between C and B is perfectly acceptable under most circumstances, even is non-impressive. The end result is that in grad school a "C" is very nearly a failing grade. Hence, instructors typically award mostly A's and B's. You'd probably get a B or better provided you don't fall far behind "the group". But doing so isn't easy. Then again, if the grad admission committee does its job right, you'd probably fall in a group whose abilities are comparable to yours (meaning you probably won't fall far behind your group under most circumstances).

 

[hdhntr1]

I assume Fitz is an NU alum, and his daughter got better grades at Wake than he did at NU.

FitzPhile's conclusion: "NU is way harder."

Correct conclusion: "Fitz's daughter is way smarter."

I know that since the time I was in school, there has been a lot of grade inflation. So not sure you can make the assumptions you did.

 

[hdhntr1]

It may depend on the field. I doubt many grad students in technical fields (engineering, econ, etc) feel grad schools is softer than undergrad (other things being equal).

That said, in US grad schools one needs a B average to be in good standing. You cannot remain in grad school by earning many C's (every C needs be to counterbalanced by an A, so that the average doesn't drop below B). OTOH, an undergrad GPA between C and B is perfectly acceptable under most circumstances, even is non-impressive. The end result is that in grad school a "C" is very nearly a failing grade. Hence, instructors typically award mostly A's and B's. You'd probably get a B or better provided you don't fall far behind "the group". But doing so isn't easy. Then again, if the grad admission committee does its job right, you'd probably fall in a group whose abilities are comparable to yours (meaning you probably won't fall far behind your group under most circumstances).

Not sure that Cs even count for grad schools. I know at NU a number of high classes had both. Average grade in engineering classes were Cs for undergrads but grad students could not get Cs. CAS classes generally were higher by a full grade so average was a B instead of a C. In Engineering C was respectable but for CAS it was not.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Not sure that Cs even count for grad schools. I know at NU a number of high classes had both. Average grade in engineering classes were Cs for undergrads but grad students could not get Cs. CAS classes generally were higher by a full grade so average was a B instead of a C. In Engineering C was respectable but for CAS it was not.

You are probably speaking mostly about undergrad grades.
At NU all (or the vast majority) of NON-professional grad degrees are administered by the graduate school (MBA's, law, etc are under the respective school). Hence, the available grad grades (at least in non-prof programs) and GPA calculations and minimum standards are in principle the same for all non-prof grad programs. A grade of C is possible in any grad school program, but rarely awarded for the reasons given above.

 

[Aging Booster]

Everything you say about Wake and tradition is well taken. Especially the point about Duncan and Chris Paul. I would imagine for a young Point Guard, the image of CP looms pretty large. But, I'm curious regarding the academics. Northwestern is a top 15 university, Wake is top 25. I think it's really interesting that your daughter noticed a meaningful difference. It's always been my impression that the differences between schools 10 or so spots in rankings is pretty miniscule. I mean even between Yale and whatever school is #10 (MIT, Dartmouth etc) the workload and types of students are probably similar.

I have taught at four different universities of varying ranks and reputations. I think most professors will tell you two things: (1) The biggest difference between highly academic schools and those less so is in the style of teaching. At a more academic school you can comfortably use your own vocabulary, assign more interesting (harder) texts, rely on students to have read the assigned material and understood what they read, engage in more sophisticated lectures and discussions, and spend less time checking up on students. At a school with easier admission standards, one has to change one's vocabulary, assign easier texts, hold discussion sessions in lieu of lectures to make sure the students understood the readings, and devote more time to "babysitting". That said, at least in the humanities, the curriculum is nowhere near as rigorous as it was 30 years ago - and that is as true at NU as it is at NIU. The students simply refuse to take courses that require a monograph be read each week, as was common at NU in the '70s and '80s. They also expect more "spoon-feeding:. Rather than researching questions at the library they expect professors to take class time to digress into any topic of interest to answer their questions. They also are much poorer writers and have underdeveloped analytical reasoning skills. There is a reason SAT scores have dropped precipitously in 40 years despite two recalibrations. (2) The top 5% of the students at any school are the same everywhere - Harvard or UIC. The difference is in the lower 95%... and that difference can be significant even between schools that are not ranked that far apart. We generally try to teach to the 65th percentile, so you can see what a difference the quality of students really means. The quality of education one receives depends a great deal upon the abilities of one's fellow students.

 

[NUCat320]

I know that since the time I was in school, there has been a lot of grade inflation. So not sure you can make the assumptions you did.

You are utterly humorless.

 

[NJCat]

It may depend on the field. I doubt many grad students in technical fields (engineering, econ, etc) feel grad schools is softer than undergrad (other things being equal).

I must be in the minority. I got my BS in ChE at NU, and also my Ph.D. in ChE at NU. No question grad school was easier than undergrad. The course material was more difficult but the grading way easier. 18 courses for my doctorate, 18 A's. I'm not that smart (one of the few things posted on these boards that everyone will agree to).

 

[Deeringfish]

I'm not that smart (one of the few things posted on these boards that everyone will agree to).

THAT'S NOT TRUE! Don't be ignorant!

 

[FeliSilvestris]

I must be in the minority. I got my BS in ChE at NU, and also my Ph.D. in ChE at NU. No question grad school was easier than undergrad. The course material was more difficult but the grading way easier.

I won't comment much on your specific case. However, one factor that MIGHT have affected your perception is that your undergrad class MAY have been stronger (compared to the all undergrad classes) than your grad class was (vs all Chem Eng grad classes). This could happen, for example, if the ranking of NU's ChE department was relatively low in terms of research prestige.

The undergrad class may be aligned with the overall strength of the university as an undergrad college, whereas the grad class of a specific department may be more aligned with the perceived scientific prestige (reputation) of the dept faculty.

To cite a specific example, in 2016 NU ChE dept was ranked #31 worldwide. That is very good, but not quite in the world's elite. So, the NU ChE grad class should be fairly strong, but not quite elite. OTOH, some rank NU about 10 in the US and 20 in the world overall.
Going back to your case, the rankings that matter are those around the time you were in school, obviously, which may or may not have been quite different from those cited above.

 

[Deeringfish]

I must be in the minority. I got my BS in ChE at NU, and also my Ph.D. in ChE at NU. No question grad school was easier than undergrad. The course material was more difficult but the grading way easier. 18 courses for my doctorate, 18 A's. I'm not that smart (one of the few things posted on these boards that everyone will agree to).

Serious question.
Could it have anything to do with the fact that you were studying all classes that were actually interesting to you and in your wheelhouse?
Would a History grad student have found your ChE grad classes easier than the basic chemistry required when in undergrad?

 

[NJCat]

Serious question.
Could it have anything to do with the fact that you were studying all classes that were actually interesting to you and in your wheelhouse?
Would a History grad student have found your ChE grad classes easier than the basic chemistry required when in undergrad?

I don' t think so. Pretty much everyone got A's in my grad classes. For example, I got an A in D level Thermodynamics from the same prof who gave me two B's in undergrad Thermo courses (Boomer Brown, who was a wack job). The material was hard but if you made a decent effort you got an A, even the D level applied math courses I took. A History major would really struggle and probably not pass a grad level STEM course.

My theory is that at least in the sciences, grad students are given an easy time in the course work because the Profs need them to do the scut work necessary to complete a thesis. We were basically serfs who generated the data for the faculty to publish. I was fortunate to have an advisor who was a tenured full professor, who wasn't under pressure to publish. He still got 5 papers published in refereed journals from my work.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

My theory is that at least in the sciences, grad students are given an easy time in the course work because the Profs need them to do the scut work necessary to complete a thesis.

Completely disagree. What you experienced may have been very specific to your department/program.

In many departments, not only must grad students face tough grading (subject to what I have already discussed above, B-average, etc) but PhD students must also take preliminary or qualifying exams (the name varies) at the end of their first or second year of PhD studies. Each exam typically covers a years worth of material taught in normal grad courses (sort of like a re-exam) and are graded on a pass/fail basis (don't appear on the transcript). They are really tough, and is the reason why many are unable to continue their PhD programs. Yes the faculty needs PhD students...BUT the students must be COMPETENT...and if they have difficulty getting good grades in "realistic" exams, and passing their "prelims" they are unlikely to be competent researchers...last thing the faculty wants is to burn hundreds of thousands of research money on a PhD that doesn't produce much of significance! It's money better spent on someone else!