Baker’s PT and Note to Mods

[BeerPoisoning]

I know we’ve all been optimistic about the redshirt burning but I’m really questioning the sanity on the decision. If he can’t even get a couple minutes in the WF game when our offense was as miserable as it was, there’s no chance he’s getting the opportunity vs UNC or tournament play. Can’t judge him based off of a rust-breaking 5 minutes vs Syracuse or 5 junk minutes (0 shots) vs Miami. I know he WANTED to burn it and play. You have to think that if they planned on not utilizing him that they would disregard his plea and keep him shirted. I just don’t understand the logic. I never expected him to suddenly be a 6th or 7th man but he’s virtually had 0 opportunity.

I know right now that this isn’t a concern for focus point but it’s been on my mind and I can’t wrap my brain around it. Thoughts?

Side note to Mods: I’m not one to demand changes but the proud Duke fan in me would like to request an update

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Beer, I don't have an inkling on the decision about tossing Joey's redshirt. Maybe Joey just wanted to feel more a part of the team, or maybe K feels he's insurance just in case some other disaster befalls this team. No matter the reason if Duke finds itself down in the tourney, and perhaps needs another 3 point shooter on the floor at the end of a game, and Joey nails a 3 for a win to extend Duke's season, well, we'll all be hailing K a genius (again for the millionth time). One play, it's all it would take.

And about the 3 times National Champions deal, that's been brought up many times (by Show multiple times), and the powers that be haven't the time and/or the inclination to change it. I think DJ posted their reasoning one time, but for the life of me I can't seem to recall what it was. Maybe if we win #6 that will get the ball rolling.

OFC

 

[BeerPoisoning]

Beer, I don't have an inkling on the decision about tossing Joey's redshirt. Maybe Joey just wanted to feel more a part of the team, or maybe K feels he's insurance just in case some other disaster befalls this team. No matter the reason if Duke finds itself down in the tourney, and perhaps needs another 3 point shooter on the floor at the end of a game, and Joey nails a 3 for a win to extend Duke's season, well, we'll all be hailing K a genius (again for the millionth time). One play, it's all it would take.

And about the 3 times National Champions deal, that's been brought up many times (by Show multiple times), and the powers that be haven't the time and/or the inclination to change it. I think DJ posted their reasoning one time, but for the life of me I can't seem to recall what it was. Maybe if we win #6 that will get the ball rolling.

OFC

You couldn’t be more correct... One big play is all it takes for the madness to become genius. But you have to think that if he were to be trusted or counted on in the future to provide that spark or contribution that experience would be vital for that success. Up 47-19 at the half for Miami, heck why not let him play significantly in the 2nd half? I’m not suggesting that Tre, RJ, Cam sit it all out - there has to be playing time for them in terms of chemistry for Baker or other roleplayers but these scenarios where we can provide game experience without gambling a loss just seems like we keep the aces in their places and ignore the depth.

Lol - I figured that it’s either been brought up 100 times and I was wasting my time mentioning it or it’s been completely overlooked.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

You couldn’t be more correct... One big play is all it takes for the madness to become genius. But you have to think that if he were to be trusted or counted on in the future to provide that spark or contribution that experience would be vital for that success. Up 47-19 at the half for Miami, heck why not let him play significantly in the 2nd half? I’m not suggesting that Tre, RJ, Cam sit it all out - there has to be playing time for them in terms of chemistry for Baker or other roleplayers but these scenarios where we can provide game experience without gambling a loss just seems like we keep the aces in their places and ignore the depth.

Lol - I figured that it’s either been brought up 100 times and I was wasting my time mentioning it or it’s been completely overlooked.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't have a good answer for you! On the surface it looks very puzzling, considering how little Joey has played.

OFC

 

[BeerPoisoning]

I understand what you're saying, I just don't have a good answer for you! On the surface it looks very puzzling, considering how little Joey has played.

OFC

For sure. Lots of folks are quick to say “K doesn’t develop the bench!” They are the ones who don’t understand that nothing is more important than the current season at hand. With all the blue chips that come in, you have to play the studs and chase the title. Can’t worry about developing the end of the food chain for future seasons. But, I will say that I can’t stand seeing guys who could be beneficial depth ride the bench with the game in hand. There’s a lot to be gained allocating them with those minutes.

 

[sheyduke]

For sure. Lots of folks are quick to say “K doesn’t develop the bench!” They are the ones who don’t understand that nothing is more important than the current season at hand. With all the blue chips that come in, you have to play the studs and chase the title. Can’t worry about developing the end of the food chain for future seasons. But, I will say that I can’t stand seeing guys who could be beneficial depth ride the bench with the game in hand. There’s a lot to be gained allocating them with those minutes.

There is always going to be questions around K and developing his bench. Especially given Dukes track record with injuries as of late.
I think we all agree K prepares his five best and prepares them for a long season as starters but there are head scratching moments like when your up twenty or thirty points with five minutes to go in the second half I don’t see the point of any starter being in.
The baker red shirt is what it it is. Sure he practiced with the team all year long but nothing prepares you for in game experience.
Come next week and the one after Duke is 0-0 so we could see a wide spread bench especially if Zion returns to protect further injury. Only the next couple weeks will tell

 

[RanDEVILman]

As far as developing the bench, we are the same fans (I say we because I do this in my head too, but I do NOT come on this message board to type my stupid thoughts during games) who get pissed when those bench guys get in the games and cannot make the plays required. We want development, but not at the cost of losing some games. Its a tricky situation for sure!

 

[dukehokie]

There is always going to be questions around K and developing his bench. Especially given Dukes track record with injuries as of late.
I think we all agree K prepares his five best and prepares them for a long season as starters but there are head scratching moments like when your up twenty or thirty points with five minutes to go in the second half I don’t see the point of any starter being in.
The baker red shirt is what it it is. Sure he practiced with the team all year long but nothing prepares you for in game experience.
Come next week and the one after Duke is 0-0 so we could see a wide spread bench especially if Zion returns to protect further injury. Only the next couple weeks will tell

I know you and I debated about the validity of burning Baker’s redshirt, but we’re both in agreement that if he didn’t play it was totally pointless abd a total head scratching move on the staff’s part. Well as of right now, I think I’ve scratched my head clean to the skull.

Maybe he does play in the tournament in some early games to allow guys to rest (maybe that was the plan), but as of right now, I don’t know.

 

[Showenuff]

I guess you guys don't realize, we're gonna be in the Elite 8, major foul trouble, Zion fouled out, Cam fouled out, Alex can't buy a 3, we're down 2. 4 seconds on the clock, and K draws up a play that looks to go to RJ in the paint. An old play resurfaces. Standing all alone out there......it's Baker ! Nothing but net! FF bound !

 

[hart2chesson]

And about the 3 times National Champions deal, that's been brought up many times (by Show multiple times), and the powers that be haven't the time and/or the inclination to change it. I think DJ posted their reasoning one time, but for the life of me I can't seem to recall what it was. Maybe if we win #6 that will get the ball rolling.

OFC

Very much agreed it needs to change...

OFC

 

[Dad2ze]

Something tells me that Joey will become the next hated Duke player that is white. Hopefully he’s able to contribute in the Natty game like Grayson did.

 

[BlueDaveil]

Not sure if this is taboo to bring up as I know it’s not about “individual achievements” but K has typically had a good sense of a players stats in a game. If we pulled Zion and RJ in every game we were running away with this year, would they still be NPOY candidates? Maybe Zion with his insane efficiency would still be in the conversation, but with all of the voting bias against Duke guys winning awards it would be much easier to argue against him if he was averaging 17/6/1 vs 23/9/2. Obviously this isn’t the only reason to get these guys as much game experience as possible but I doubt it goes completely overlooked either.

 

[AlanInNJ]

Yep, head scratcher for sure, but I am trusting K has a plan or at least HAD a plan which perhaps didn't work out. Maybe he was watching Jack's slump and Alex under performing and saw Joey as the next man up. Low and behold Jack starts hitting threes again and Alex too, and suddenly we aren't in desperate need of another shooter option.

I don't know, but I think most of here agree there had to be some plan, some sort of reasoning. Burning the redshirt for 10 minute of burn just seems odd. Maybe Baker and K talked and agreed that he wasn't planning to stay 4 years anyway, so why not let him off the bench?

It would be awesome to see him hit a few 3's at some point soon though, wouldn't it??

 

[christophero]

Baker could still play. Not Saturday but the first game of the ACC tournament and the first 2 rounds if we coast.

 

[1156jack]

The point about one key play changing the narrative is a good one. The kind of play that comes to mind is Grayson Allen's contribution in the Wisconsin game that turned the tide on the way to the national championship.

The context of Joey Baker's coming into the game when he did is also important. Zion was hurt with no idea of when of\r if he would ever come back. Reddish had proven to be inconsistent as an outside shooter. AOC had yet to show much of anything. Coach K was looking to add options at the time in case he needed them. He still might. Time will tell.

 

[dukiejay]

The mods don't have the capability of changing the 'three-time national champions' wording. We've let the site owners know multiple times and it's been brought to their attention. I'll maybe shoot off one more email (since it's been a while) and see if we can get it done. It's been a while since they've heard from me about that.

 

[christophero]

There is also the issue now of reintegrating Zion, which could make it harder for Baker to get minutes. I hope he does.

 

[Showenuff]

The mods don't have the capability of changing the 'three-time national champions' wording. We've let the site owners know multiple times and it's been brought to their attention. I'll maybe shoot off one more email (since it's been a while) and see if we can get it done. It's been a while since they've heard from me about that.

yeah my campaign to fix this has failed many times.

 

[BeerPoisoning]

I think a popular opinion is that burning his redshirt goes from “head scratching” to “genius” if provides a game changing contribution. (‘15 Grayson style, or similar)

But is it genius or luck?
You have to think that if it’s considered a future possibility that he would be given playing time experience. Ya know, Grayson didn’t ride the bench all year playing a total of 11 minutes and magically save us.

 

[Liftee]

Why do we discount the possibility that Baker was begging to play, K kept telling him he wasn't ready, and finally K decided Baker was ready for a few minutes of play and there was room for him at the back of the rotation? Why are we accepting the Cheaters' "diabolical plot" theory of our Coach K?

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I really don't see the big deal about burning Bakers redshirt this year, especially considering he is a shooter and we definitely could use an extra shooter in case of emergency.

The kid was a 5 star, are people really naive enough to believe he was gonna be a 4-year player??? I always thought he was a 2 or 3 year guy.
On top of all that..I trust K.

 

[BeerPoisoning]

Why do we discount the possibility that Baker was begging to play, K kept telling him he wasn't ready, and finally K decided Baker was ready for a few minutes of play and there was room for him at the back of the rotation? Why are we accepting the Cheaters' "diabolical plot" theory of our Coach K?

Didn’t discount the possibility...
“I know he WANTED to burn it and play. You have to think that if they planned on not utilizing him that they would disregard his plea”

I think every kid wants to play every single minute. Coach decides that. I’m not accepting anyone’s theory... It’s just ultimately senseless from the outside looking in. So I was looking for thoughts from a different perspective. Nobody is discrediting the GOAT.

 

[Mpm277]

I trust the coaching staff knows more about Joey's situation at Duke than any of us do. Maybe Joey was never planning on staying an extra four years as it was, so burning his redshirt doesn't have any real consequences. Maybe K just doesn't care he took a year of eligibility away from him. Maybe Joey didn't care. I'm just saying we don't know, and it's one of those things that it doesn't even make sense to suppose the staff made some grave mistake when we simply have no inside knowledge of the situation.

 

[Mpm277]

I bet if Joey realizes he burned his redshirt for nothing and doesn't get more minutes than a rusty Zion he'll definitely transfer.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

The mods don't have the capability of changing the 'three-time national champions' wording. We've let the site owners know multiple times and it's been brought to their attention. I'll maybe shoot off one more email (since it's been a while) and see if we can get it done. It's been a while since they've heard from me about that.

To everyone, especially the mods, and extra double especially @dukiejay, I did not mean to imply that the 'powers to be' were the mods. I know the mods don't have anything to do with making changes to this site (other than requesting). Just wanted to clarify that in case anyone thought I was suggesting that.

But, if no one is going to change it, I made a screen shot of part of DI, and made a little change of my own. Just download the pic to your desktop (phone, or whatever) and drag it over the top of the DI screen. And I future proofed it, so it's ready when we bring home that natty in April.

OFC

 

[FearTheBeard_rivals208808]

The mods don't have the capability of changing the 'three-time national champions' wording. We've let the site owners know multiple times and it's been brought to their attention. I'll maybe shoot off one more email (since it's been a while) and see if we can get it done. It's been a while since they've heard from me about that.

Threaten to give Gary their email address requesting a synopsis of all UNCheat games be emailed to them.

 

[PixelDevil]

Threaten to take the mods’ pay away, I bet that’ll motivate them.

 

[FearTheBeard_rivals208808]

Threaten to take the mods’ pay away, I bet that’ll motivate them.

They should double their current salary.

 

[dukiejay]

Email sent....

 

[Shatterthesky22]

To everyone, especially the mods, and extra double especially @dukiejay, I did not mean to imply that the 'powers to be' were the mods. I know the mods don't have anything to do with making changes to this site (other than requesting). Just wanted to clarify that in case anyone thought I was suggesting that.

But, if no one is going to change it, I made a screen shot of part of DI, and made a little change of my own. Just download the pic to your desktop (phone, or whatever) and drag it over the top of the DI screen. And I future proofed it, so it's ready when we bring home that natty in April.

OFC

You're bloody brilliant, you know that?

 

[spike05rk]

Duke crushed Miami practically the whole game and Baker played maybe 5 minutes. So if he doesn’t get any burn in a blowout situation I can’t see him in at crunch time. To date it still looks like a knee jerk decision. JMO

 

[PixelDevil]

Email sent....

finally earning that paycheck

 

[Buzzooka Joe]

I’m hoping K knows something we don’t..

Like he knows 100% we are winning the National Championship this year, so he wants Baker to be an official part of the team for that.

 

[icrashm]

Not sure if this is taboo to bring up as I know it’s not about “individual achievements” but K has typically had a good sense of a players stats in a game. If we pulled Zion and RJ in every game we were running away with this year, would they still be NPOY candidates? Maybe Zion with his insane efficiency would still be in the conversation, but with all of the voting bias against Duke guys winning awards it would be much easier to argue against him if he was averaging 17/6/1 vs 23/9/2. Obviously this isn’t the only reason to get these guys as much game experience as possible but I doubt it goes completely overlooked either.

I think Michael Jordan won two NPOY's averaging about 15 pts. a game.

 

[tw3301]

I’m hoping K knows something we don’t..

Like he knows 100% we are winning the National Championship this year, so he wants Baker to be an official part of the team for that.

Didn't Seth Curry get a ring for sitting out the 2010 national championship season?

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Didn't Seth Curry get a ring for sitting out the 2010 national championship season?

No, he didn't get a ring. One of those crazy NCAA rules about transfers.

OFC

 

[tw3301]

No, he didn't get a ring. One of those crazy NCAA rules about transfers.

OFC

That sucks.

 

[hart2chesson]

No, he didn't get a ring. One of those crazy NCAA rules about transfers.

OFC

Yep Dirt, and years later Roy pulls off the FIRST EVER hoops transfer in the ACC......SMH, isnt life funny????

Just another reason to want to whip his butt.....OFC

 

[PixelDevil]

wrong thread