Giving him credit on all hires he's falling short 3-1 on bad hires recently the 3 being BCG joker Stoops, good being Cal (even though I'm not in the boat where he supported him)
Barnhart discussion
- Thread starter Rupp'sRunt
- Start date
Please show me an article that says Barnhart was more interested in Mike Brey than Calipari.
So he gets credit for hiring BCG and Stoops because he went through the same process as hiring Calipari, but because you read some article saying he liked Mike Brey and you read on here Mike Pratt hired Cal, that means Barnhart he didn't hire Calipari? makes sense
I'd venture to say there isn't one, but I'm not going to dig in Labor Day. I'll look for you tmmrw. But I do believe he was Mitch's first option after Calipari. And that's not just a guess.
He paid an executive search firm $200,000 to help with the BCG hiring. He must have forgotten to spring for a background check. Hiring BCG alone is a fire-able offense. Hiring Stoops is not terrible in and of itself, but the extension last year has put the Athletic Department in a very tough spot. The handling of Brooks retirement and naming Joker the CIW was definitely a botched move as well. Those are all big mistakes imo. They also have/will cost the University millions of $'s to fix.
He might have been Mitch's first option if Calipari didn't work out, but that doesn't mean Barnhart didn't hire Calipari. Lee Todd might have, but I can guarantee you Mike Pratt didn't have anything to do with it. Sorry If i misunderstood your point, I thought you were saying Barnhart didn't hire Calipari.
Do you think most of UK fans are interested in the NON REVENUE sports?
Mitch spends the money that has fallen in his lap from the SEC .
OK, I'm sure "other universities call UK brass...and ask about about how things are so well run from an operational standpoint."
Right.
Do you people in the Sports Information Department have to work 24/7?
Pretty sure I said "this or other message boards"... I guess I should have included your cousin's best friend's brother's step-mom's yard boy.
Of course you missed the main point. Imagine that?
What was your point then because you said Cal would be run off by a fball coach, which simply won't happen at UK. Ever.
BCG was an extremely hot commodity when hired, it was seen at the time as a good hire. Now, I'll agree about the background check.
Joker was seen by everyone on here and in general as a good hire. It kept continuity in what Brooks had started. I believe it's the same thing Oregon did when Brooks went to the NFL and it's worked gangbusters there.
I was saying if you pay huge bucks for a big time football coach, you better be ready to match Calipari with the same pay.
He doesn't strike me as a man that's going to play second fiddle to anyone.
If you don't Cal might be inclined to go elsewhere.
BCG and joker were not good hires. Please don't try and say they were so even at the time. MB bought into coach in waiting with joker (horrible policy) and BCG beat UL in rupp that's what mostly got him the job.
Every P5 AD has easy money coming from the conference.
That is not the only money MB is making. He has increased revenue through capital funding strategies as well. K-fund and what not.
Also, that new logo everybody hates (i do to) is going to make the university even more money, because fans, especially younger fans who aren't as tied to the old logo, are going to go have to go out and buy new merchandise. Older fans will resist at first, but ultimately fans want what the players and coaches are wearing. Come basketball season, once Cal starts rolling and everybody sees the new uniforms, jump suits, warm up tees, etc with the new logo, the old wildcat isn't going to cut the mustard. That wasn't just some fly by night idea for ***** and giggles. There is a little economic method to his madness.
And though things like non revenue sports and a well respected game day operation may not mean a lot to the masses of main stream fans, it means a lot to those making big decisions like who stays and who goes.
BCG was a hot commodity at the time of the hire, and it was seen as a great hire by UK at the time.
Him beating Louisville had squat to do with it, they went into KU and beat them that year, the first Big12 south team to do that in 10 years or some crazy stat, KU won the title that year. He had it rolling at A and M, he was taking the job at Arkansas when UK called.
Joker was a desired coordinator when he was named CIW, it seemed like natural continuity of Brooks work.
I'm not a Barnhart apologist, but I'm not a hater either, I can see why both hires were made.
God Dammit, this is SEC football.
What more do you need to discuss?
We don't win. What's the remedy?
It's putting in play the bag people that make athletes happen...look at basketball.
If anyone reading this thinks uk basketball recruits are not owls at certain times, think again.
What more do you need to discuss?
We don't win. What's the remedy?
It's putting in play the bag people that make athletes happen...look at basketball.
If anyone reading this thinks uk basketball recruits are not owls at certain times, think again.
I love how some people on this board are all
Barnhart- he's doing all he can with what he can. He makes some mistakes but gosh he tries.
Hillary Clinton- BOooooo Democrat filth. devil lady, evil and is trying to ruin this nation.
I dont care about Clinton or Trump.. I dont want either as president... but I can find some people's double standard of accountability kind of funny.
Barnhart- he's doing all he can with what he can. He makes some mistakes but gosh he tries.
Hillary Clinton- BOooooo Democrat filth. devil lady, evil and is trying to ruin this nation.
I dont care about Clinton or Trump.. I dont want either as president... but I can find some people's double standard of accountability kind of funny.
Yes, well, one of her greatest apologists is also one of Mitch's great apologists. Fuzz is consistently goofy but there's no double standard with those two.
LOL
Like a lot of things, people jump to conclusions too early some times, like thinking UK had the game won against USM just before half time, like MOST fans screaming for Brooks head after LSU beat us 48 to ZERO, like the Ole Miss game tonight. Stoops fate won't be decided until AFTER the 17 season, almost everyone with a brain realizes that, yet they continue to speculate on him being fired before then which does accomplish one thing------it hurts recruiting. Thanks a lot, basketball fans.
My dislike for mitch springs from his ZERO support for football for ten years, when it was the money cow, especially since the 2007 season when we AVERAGED over 67,000 fans for the season. He couldn't do ONE thing above the BARE MINIMUM for football because he didn't have the money, pure BS, with the $5,000,000 BONUS money from the first TV contract it was unexpected so uncommitted until he spent it on everything else, he couldn't even replace the folding chairs in the "recruiting room", (but was able to spend $156,000 on some pictures he hung on a wall-----somewhere), the recruiting budget was LESS for 25 football recruits than for four or five bb recruits, he couldn't replace Brown (Co-DC, LOL) because of the buyout (how things have changed, LOL), Brooks had to pay Joker part of his salary in order to keep him, driving ALL the football fans away from contributing a dime to his KFund, just a partial list of his insults to the intelligence of the "microwave fans".
And in fact I have been a big UK basketball fan since Alex Groza, Ralph Beard, Phil Rollins, Wah Wah Jones, Dale Barnstable, etc etc, UK basketball or Cal neither one need my support, and I follow the minor sports more than 99% of UK fans, fantastic job by our two women 100meter hurdlers, that won the NCAA title the past two years, AND set the world record recently. Quinn, a freshman (Woman) may set the world record again before she is done.
But I honestly believe that mitch would have had a LOT more money to spend on the minor sports if he had spent more of FOOTBALLS money on football, he cost UK literally millions in football------and still is, in attendance.
Like a lot of things, people jump to conclusions too early some times, like thinking UK had the game won against USM just before half time, like MOST fans screaming for Brooks head after LSU beat us 48 to ZERO, like the Ole Miss game tonight. Stoops fate won't be decided until AFTER the 17 season, almost everyone with a brain realizes that, yet they continue to speculate on him being fired before then which does accomplish one thing------it hurts recruiting. Thanks a lot, basketball fans.
My dislike for mitch springs from his ZERO support for football for ten years, when it was the money cow, especially since the 2007 season when we AVERAGED over 67,000 fans for the season. He couldn't do ONE thing above the BARE MINIMUM for football because he didn't have the money, pure BS, with the $5,000,000 BONUS money from the first TV contract it was unexpected so uncommitted until he spent it on everything else, he couldn't even replace the folding chairs in the "recruiting room", (but was able to spend $156,000 on some pictures he hung on a wall-----somewhere), the recruiting budget was LESS for 25 football recruits than for four or five bb recruits, he couldn't replace Brown (Co-DC, LOL) because of the buyout (how things have changed, LOL), Brooks had to pay Joker part of his salary in order to keep him, driving ALL the football fans away from contributing a dime to his KFund, just a partial list of his insults to the intelligence of the "microwave fans".
And in fact I have been a big UK basketball fan since Alex Groza, Ralph Beard, Phil Rollins, Wah Wah Jones, Dale Barnstable, etc etc, UK basketball or Cal neither one need my support, and I follow the minor sports more than 99% of UK fans, fantastic job by our two women 100meter hurdlers, that won the NCAA title the past two years, AND set the world record recently. Quinn, a freshman (Woman) may set the world record again before she is done.
But I honestly believe that mitch would have had a LOT more money to spend on the minor sports if he had spent more of FOOTBALLS money on football, he cost UK literally millions in football------and still is, in attendance.
Pretty sure Barnhart was just using Brooks as a consultant and after about 3 guys turned him down Brooks said, Why don't you let me give it a try.
When it comes to discussing Barnhart, heels have already been dug in. In my experience, entrenched beliefs are based on partial facts, or outright false. Athletics directors can't wave a magic wand and make something happen. All decisions carry risks, and require the benefit of time to bear fruit. Some fans are still mad because of Gillispie. But Kentucky has won a national championship since Gillispie was fired. So Barnhart gets blamed for Gillispie, but he receives no credit for fixing the problem. LOL! That's a tough double standard. Some even make up stuff to convince themselves that Barnhart wasn't a principle in the Calipari hire. But, in fact, Barnhart has done a remarkable job with most Kentucky sports, and he has rebuilt or remodeled all facilities except Rupp Arena. Football is the 1 remaining sport Barnhart hasn't fixed yet. When Stoops was hired, I thought football was fixed. Stoops' recruiting has been encouraging. As an athlete, I know it is a mistake to overreact after 1 game. But I also know that recruiting isn't enough. Players must be developed. Stoops did a great job developing Jon Toth, Melvin Lewis, CJ Johnson. But there haven't been enough of these positive developments, and I am beginning to doubt whether Stoops can be successful here. I am willing to wait another 5 years to see what happens with Stoops, and see how Barnhart manages the aftermath if necessary. Few others will be that patient, but I learned a long time ago that success cannot be turned on and off like a light switch. Thanks to Barnhart, the facilities and infrastructure are in place for success. Anyone who thinks these things are easy doesn't know what they are talking about. But until Kentucky gets back to bowl games on a regular basis, football remains a problem on Barnhart's performance record. To be fair, it is a problem that should be discussed along with his known strengths. And if people don't know what Barnhart's known strengths are, then they should stay out of these discussions. If anyone has to ask about Barnhart's strengths after 14 years on the job, they should just stay out of it.
I have post this many times, and it's quite simple. From a BOT and University perspective, he is a dream AD for the following reasons:
1. His programs have never been in trouble in his 15 years at the top.
2. Academically, the program is in good shape
3. Athletics gives money back to the University every year, does not use any student fees and just agreed to pay $65 million towards a new science building.
Those are HUGE things to the administration at a University. It would be completely different if football had been successful for years and when Mitch took over, it ended up where it is now. And before anyone talks about his basketball hires, look at AD's like Mal Moore at Alabama (1999-2013) who hired Mike price (fiasco) and Mike Shula (fiasco) before hiring Saban and made it through no problem. Bad hires get excused, if they are fixed, when you do the 3 things I listed above.
1. His programs have never been in trouble in his 15 years at the top.
2. Academically, the program is in good shape
3. Athletics gives money back to the University every year, does not use any student fees and just agreed to pay $65 million towards a new science building.
Those are HUGE things to the administration at a University. It would be completely different if football had been successful for years and when Mitch took over, it ended up where it is now. And before anyone talks about his basketball hires, look at AD's like Mal Moore at Alabama (1999-2013) who hired Mike price (fiasco) and Mike Shula (fiasco) before hiring Saban and made it through no problem. Bad hires get excused, if they are fixed, when you do the 3 things I listed above.
Go through the list of who you think are the best athletic directors in the country and I will show you a bad hire they made. Foley at Florida? How about Zook and Muschamp? Zurich? Kragthorpe was a great hire. There is no sure fire 100% coach to turn this around and contrary to popular belief, there is not a line standing outside the football offices wanting this job. The key is once you realize you are in a bad situation, you get out of it ASAP and I think Mitch did that with BCG and maybe waited one year too late to cut ties with Joker. AD of the year last year, one of the few self supporting athletic departments in the NCAA, other sports are in much better shape than when he started and the facilities are second to none. If you had a resume like that and got fired from your job, we would have no employees in America.
Mitch messed up giving that contract extension to Stoops. Agree that he has done some good things, but he has made some mistakes to. He bought into the hype like some of us do as fans, and as an athletic director you can't do that. Recruiting improved but as far as rankings go we are not doing well in our conference. Some of the big name players he recruited didn't work out or are still on the team and were vastly overrated. We haven't been to a bowl game and that should have been a factor in Mitch's decision on Stoops contract. I agree with you on the facilities getting better, but Mitch let it go way to long before updating football facilities. Brooks begged for upgrades and it didn't happen. Not everything Mitch has done has been bad by any means, but his handling of the football program is the same as others that have held his position before him. It stinks.
Murph, You're right about the extension, that appears to be a mistake at this point.
It's going to take a big name coach with credibility to make UK competitive in the SEC. We don't have history to use as a crutch to lure recruits, it's going to take a coach's cred to do that, and wins. There's also a sentiment that UK fans only care about basketball, there's some truth in that, but if we had a competitive team regularly the fans would be there just like every other school in the SEC.
Stoops needs to have a come to Jesus moment. Saturday wasn't an isolated event, they damn near did the same thing last year in the opener, and then the collapses the last 2 years to end the year and it becomes apparent there's a problem. He needs to let the offensive coaches have total control of the offense. He's got plenty of work to do with the defense.
It's going to take a big name coach with credibility to make UK competitive in the SEC. We don't have history to use as a crutch to lure recruits, it's going to take a coach's cred to do that, and wins. There's also a sentiment that UK fans only care about basketball, there's some truth in that, but if we had a competitive team regularly the fans would be there just like every other school in the SEC.
Stoops needs to have a come to Jesus moment. Saturday wasn't an isolated event, they damn near did the same thing last year in the opener, and then the collapses the last 2 years to end the year and it becomes apparent there's a problem. He needs to let the offensive coaches have total control of the offense. He's got plenty of work to do with the defense.
So true. There are lots of reasons why Barnhart's detractors dig in their heels, but few are based in a reasonable context. All athletics directors make hires that don't work out. You mentioned Zook at Florida. Also, Muschamp. And Tyndall, Kiffin, Dooley at Tennessee, Riley and Callahan at Nebraska, Faust and Willingham at Notre Dame, Dubose and Price at Alabama, Schnellenberger at Oklahoma, Sarkisian at Southern Cal, Sampson at Indiana. That's just scratching the surface. On the plus side, Barnhart has fixed most UK sports and done a fantastic job with facilities. Because of Barnhart, fundamental infrastructure is in place for all UK sports to be successful. The portfolio of all UK athletic programs is in the best shape it has ever been. Those are facts, and it's more than 90% of other public universities can truthfully say. But on the negative side, Barnhart has not yet solved complicated problem with the rocky UK-city of Lexington partnership trying to modernize Rupp Arena. The women's basketball program is at an important crossroad. And unless Stoops turns things around during the next 23 games, football may continue as a stubborn problem. But it is fair to point out that no previous Kentucky athletics director was able to solve these problems. In fact, when Barnhart got here, football was on probation and nothing had been done to improve football facilities since the Nutter Center was built with money raised by Coach Claiborne. So, to be ignorant of Barnhart's important contributions is indefensible. But improvements in football infrastructure still must be translated into improvement in play on the field. Until that happens, people will continue to selectively argue all these other points.
I agree with you 100 percent. I made people mad when I said that yesterday about stoops meddling with the offense. I mentioned how stoops interrupted gran in an interview several weeks ago when gran was telling the tempo he wanted to run. Was called a liar for it and everything. I couldn't find the interview but got lucky and someone posted it for me. All I could find was an article when stoops mentioned that gran wouldn't run the same offense here with the tempo he used at Cincinnati. Thankfully another poster helped me out.
Our defense has major issues and he needs to focus all of his time on that. The man has to know defense and its not like he forgot how to coach it. With the roster we have I'm not sure what he can do to remedy the issues. Only move I can think of is let Kash Daniel play right now. Give him a chance to give people some breaks and get some game experience. On the offensive side Landon young needs to be on the field right now as well, IMO.
MB and Sandy Bell were opposed to hiring Cal and MB and wanted Billy Donavon the
first time.
When that fell through MB's next choice was BG. We could have had Cal but MB
and Sandy prevailed.
MB was still opposed to Cal the second time but Lee Todd took Mike Pratt's
recommendation along with others.
MB kept Tubby too long and wanted to keep Joker another year but the 49-0
loss to Vandy left BM no choice but to fire him.
For years BM high lighted the Swim and Tennis teams and other irrelevant sports at the Louisville UK kickoff luncheon.
MB has the personality of a tree stump.
He has underperformed is overpaid.
first time.
When that fell through MB's next choice was BG. We could have had Cal but MB
and Sandy prevailed.
MB was still opposed to Cal the second time but Lee Todd took Mike Pratt's
recommendation along with others.
MB kept Tubby too long and wanted to keep Joker another year but the 49-0
loss to Vandy left BM no choice but to fire him.
For years BM high lighted the Swim and Tennis teams and other irrelevant sports at the Louisville UK kickoff luncheon.
MB has the personality of a tree stump.
He has underperformed is overpaid.
You will know Stoops has reached a come to Jesus moment if he replaces Eliot and Schlarman with coaching upgrades. It is getting harder and harder by the week to see how Stoops can succeed without those 2 changes.
Good point. But the problem with Elliot is that he may not be running the defense. He might just have that title, kind of like Dawson when he was at WVU. I've seen and heard that Stoops runs the show on defense and considering he makes decisions on offense, you would think he would control practically all of the defense. Eliot may run the D though and what I have seen or heard may not be true at all. Could be pure speculation.
Mitch did hire Calipari, the internet rumor that "the board made Mitch hire him" is laughable - even Mike Pratt laughed at this, as he helped initiate the UK/Cal interest and was at the Chicago hotel with Mitch interviewing Cal. People really need to research facts and lay off the internet rumors, as these grow to legendary status.