Becoming a Big Ten-type team?

[ArtSmass]

I know the SEC has been what's 'sexy' for a while -- all that speed spread out, then getting the ball to the edge to those guys who can make you miss in space, Jet Sweep/Quick Screens. Think Florida Fun-Gun.

Then the Air Raid craze (with roots in Lexington). Even more sexy--throw almost every down, get vertical, points-points-points (even if defense-be-damned: see Big 12 today).

Could our recruiting strategy (going NORTH where there's more rugged, hard-nosed players: Jones, Snell, etc.) and the OL being a strength play into us being the sort of "contrarian" of our league?

* Don't have to go head to head with more traditional programs for the 'speedster' leaving us with crumbs.
* Ball control and tough defense as a staple will keep you in games against teams with better talent.
* Personally, I wanted to go COMPLETELY contrarian on the last coaching change with a guy like Paul Johnson or the guy currently at Navy, but short of that, maybe the straight-ahead approach could be better for us given our proximity to Big10 land and our prowess there in recruiting?

Here's the rub: this approach got Les Miles fired (and maybe got Mark Richt shown the door at Georgia). Bama obviously made their living (before Hurts at QB) with more of a Big10 attack -- but the way they recruit they could probably run the Wing-T and be great.

Our bar is much lower than at LSU or UGa of course.

Should the Big10 Smashmouth way be our way? With guys like Snell and the way our OL stays on blocks now (maybe a result of defenses being used to defending more spread all year), I'm beginning to think so. You?

 

[ToothCat21]

For at least the near future, this style of offense is perfect for the talent we have. Run, run, run, make them play more in the box, then Johnson lets that deep ball fly. The short passing game hasn't been great this year, but the ability to have that deep option on top of a solid run game will make any defense have to respect both.

 

[UKCatNnc]

For at least the near future, this style of offense is perfect for the talent we have. Run, run, run, make them play more in the box, then Johnson lets that deep ball fly. The short passing game hasn't been great this year, but the ability to have that deep option on top of a solid run game will make any defense have to respect both.

The short passing game will be there next season; and will be better in the bowl game. Go Cats!!

 

[Deeeefense]

Eddie Gran is a very versatile coach. He doesn't just coach one style he can put together many different types of offenses. This year's offense was center around the arm of Drew Barker. When he went down they had to make some major modifications. Johnson had zero experience at this level and they had to be extremely careful with him in the first few games, and not put too much on him. But they lengthened the leash as the season went on and Stephen improved every game. By the end of the season he was playing like a polished seasoned veteran.

My guess is we were about 55/45 run to pass this season, but next year I think we revert more to a 50/50 type offense which is what most coaches strive for, since it is the hardest to defend.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

I don't know, but Brohm said the Big Ten was the best conference.

 

[Xception]

UK is capitalizing on their players strengths , we have runners and blockers so we run and block . Our roster will turn over and we will pass more if that's our strength . UK is not the type of school that could or even should hold onto a specific attack . We may have a string of good backs and blockers but it's not likely .

 

[lex cath]

I'm sick even being compared to the 10 [sick]

 

[Tskware]

* Ball control and tough defense as a staple will keep you in games against teams with better talent.

Should the Big10 Smashmouth way be our way? With guys like Snell and the way our OL stays on blocks now (maybe a result of defenses being used to defending more spread all year), I'm beginning to think so. You?

Think this is a good take, and frankly, the first sentence above hasn't changed since football was invented (plus good kicking game)

 

[Tskware]

sorry, double post, and screwd up the first one

 

[ScrewDuke1]

I don't know, but Brohm said the Big Ten was the best conference.

It is this year. The SEC this year is basically Alabama on top. The big ten has several decent to really good teams.

 

[Poetax]

I know the SEC has been what's 'sexy' for a while -- all that speed spread out, then getting the ball to the edge to those guys who can make you miss in space, Jet Sweep/Quick Screens. Think Florida Fun-Gun.

Then the Air Raid craze (with roots in Lexington). Even more sexy--throw almost every down, get vertical, points-points-points (even if defense-be-damned: see Big 12 today).

Could our recruiting strategy (going NORTH where there's more rugged, hard-nosed players: Jones, Snell, etc.) and the OL being a strength play into us being the sort of "contrarian" of our league?

* Don't have to go head to head with more traditional programs for the 'speedster' leaving us with crumbs.
* Ball control and tough defense as a staple will keep you in games against teams with better talent.
* Personally, I wanted to go COMPLETELY contrarian on the last coaching change with a guy like Paul Johnson or the guy currently at Navy, but short of that, maybe the straight-ahead approach could be better for us given our proximity to Big10 land and our prowess there in recruiting?

Here's the rub: this approach got Les Miles fired (and maybe got Mark Richt shown the door at Georgia). Bama obviously made their living (before Hurts at QB) with more of a Big10 attack -- but the way they recruit they could probably run the Wing-T and be great.

Our bar is much lower than at LSU or UGa of course.

Should the Big10 Smashmouth way be our way? With guys like Snell and the way our OL stays on blocks now (maybe a result of defenses being used to defending more spread all year), I'm beginning to think so. You?

Honestly brian, I think instead of a type of play that we are doing, its more about the staff growing up and playing a style right now that suits their roster and talent. Early I thought the staff wanted to be identified as this and that from Day one, which proved senseless since we didn't have the talent to play a certain way. I am feeling way better about the outlook of this coaching staff. Stoops is growing right in front of our eyes and Gran has stabilized a very green and inexperienced staff. I'm excited.

 

[willievic]

I don't think we can go with just "3 Yards and a cloud of dust" game. Yes we have two excellent RB's and a good OL, but if we don't occasionally spread it out, their going to fill the box. I don't think we can just be one dimensional. We must continue to recruit good players, red shirt OL and DL players, coach the recruits up, and depend on our coaches to have a good game plan. Our offensive line was good the last 3 or 4 games, but our defense still has a lot to work on. This is understandable because of the lack of experience, and the speed of our DL's. As we continue to improve in the games, so will our recruiting continue to improve, as were seeing at the present time. Our coaches won't have to depend on as many "diamonds in the rough", but go head to head with some of the big programs for 4 star players. It's going to happen!

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[ArtSmass]

Honestly brian, I think instead of a type of play that we are doing, its more about the staff growing up and playing a style right now that suits their roster and talent. Early I thought the staff wanted to be identified as this and that from Day one, which proved senseless since we didn't have the talent to play a certain way. I am feeling way better about the outlook of this coaching staff. Stoops is growing right in front of our eyes and Gran has stabilized a very green and inexperienced staff. I'm excited.

Agree 100%...I guess my point then is, should we recruit TOWARD this kind of attack since going "north" is more fertile ground for us, it's contrarian to other SEC teams, it seems to fit Gran's methodology, etc. Sorry, didn't mean to imply it's about one particular kind of 'play' -- more about overall 'attack.'

WILLIE: Similarly, I'm not advocating we be 'three-yards-and-a-cloud of dust' either. I LOVE smashmouth, but know total reliance on it can kill you if you get behind early in a game. Love even more the ability to have a dual-threat QB who can pull it on designed runs 8-10 times a game (huge pressure on the edge guys and the backside to play honest and not sell out on TB runs), and then the ability to throw over-the-top (to me, the reason we won the games we did this year--and when we didn't--like Georgia and UT) we did well offensively but got FG's instead of TDs.

Ohio State's approach seems right to me -- able to smashmouth to move the ball, eat clock, wear you down, but occasionally the QB will keep and kill you, he'll hit a speed merchant down the sidleine or post, and (what I hope we'll see that is the missing factor now) can be accurate in the short/mid-level pass game to move the chains when defenses load up against run and play umbrella coverage against deep ball.

 

[bigbluewildcat84]

No offense OP but it sounds like you want to brand UK's style as this or that. I think we've had success because we play to our strengths. I believe the recruiting scenario in general is to get the best players possible and build a style of play around your strengths. You see this done a lot in basketball but that's easier cause you only have 12-13 players. In football you have to look at skill sets of all 11 starts and then the back ups to make sure your game plan matches what works best for the players. Coach Gran is great at strategizing the play calling to ensure he gets the most from his players.

 

[JasonS.]

I know the SEC has been what's 'sexy' for a while -- all that speed spread out, then getting the ball to the edge to those guys who can make you miss in space, Jet Sweep/Quick Screens. Think Florida Fun-Gun.

Outside of Alabama, Ole Miss and occasionally Texas A&M, Mississippi State and Auburn ... I'm not sure anyone associates the SEC with competent, let alone sexy, offensive football right now.

I think that may change some next year (famous last words), and Kentucky has a chance to be in that mix.

 

[Poetax]

Agree 100%...I guess my point then is, should we recruit TOWARD this kind of attack since going "north" is more fertile ground for us, it's contrarian to other SEC teams, it seems to fit Gran's methodology, etc. Sorry, didn't mean to imply it's about one particular kind of 'play' -- more about overall 'attack.'

WILLIE: Similarly, I'm not advocating we be 'three-yards-and-a-cloud of dust' either. I LOVE smashmouth, but know total reliance on it can kill you if you get behind early in a game. Love even more the ability to have a dual-threat QB who can pull it on designed runs 8-10 times a game (huge pressure on the edge guys and the backside to play honest and not sell out on TB runs), and then the ability to throw over-the-top (to me, the reason we won the games we did this year--and when we didn't--like Georgia and UT) we did well offensively but got FG's instead of TDs.

Ohio State's approach seems right to me -- able to smashmouth to move the ball, eat clock, wear you down, but occasionally the QB will keep and kill you, he'll hit a speed merchant down the sidleine or post, and (what I hope we'll see that is the missing factor now) can be accurate in the short/mid-level pass game to move the chains when defenses load up against run and play umbrella coverage against deep ball.

No I didn't think you were, I was just saying that I'm glad that this staff has conformed to the players we have on hand then to try to be something we are not. I think both Gran and Stoops have a way that they want to play but until they get the players to do that play whatever allows you to win.

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

Good grief...enough with this romanticized idea of Ohio and big 10 recruits...

We are not making anymore head way in big 10 country than in SEC country. We get what is left over no matter what side of the river we are on, save a few rare exceptions here and there.

This idea that there is some untapped treasure trove in big 10 country is nuts. The big 10 is just as prestigious of a conference. The trove has been tapped. Maybe 7-10 years ago when the buckeyes, wolverines, penn st were all down, Mark Dantonio hadn't quite gotten the ball rolling post John L Smith, Pat Fitzgerald was still early in his career, and the big 10 overall was in a down phase there was some opportunity. Not anymore.

Big 10 is probably the most exciting conference in football from top to bottom. Urban and Jim are the penultimate show, and new age iconic rivalry.

There isn't significant hay to be made in Ohio right now. After the Big 10 picks it clean the big boys from the SEC, ACC come in, then Notre Dame maybe, then UK can fight Cincy, Ohio, Akron, Toledo, IU, Rutgers, Kent St, Eastern n Western Michigan, etc for some left overs...

As for style of play, I think we saw this year what will work with the roster we have. Run heavy, keep the D honest with some play pass and qb run.

We kind of surprised everyone with Benny, Boom, and even SJ but next year we won't have that luxury. The scouting reports and film are out on UK and the conference is going to take us more seriously so I think it will be important to improve through air to compliment our ground game.

Still very important to get the "speedster", especially one that can catch, because it will go a long way in helping benny and boom.

 

[Poetax]

Good grief...enough with this romanticized idea of Ohio and big 10 recruits...

We are not making anymore head way in big 10 country than in SEC country. We get what is left over no matter what side of the river we are on, save a few rare exceptions here and there.

This idea that there is some untapped treasure trove in big 10 country is nuts. The big 10 is just as prestigious of a conference. The trove has been tapped. Maybe 7-10 years ago when the buckeyes, wolverines, penn st were all down, Mark Dantonio hadn't quite gotten the ball rolling post John L Smith, Pat Fitzgerald was still early in his career, and the big 10 overall was in a down phase there was some opportunity. Not anymore.

Big 10 is probably the most exciting conference in football from top to bottom. Urban and Jim are the penultimate show, and new age iconic rivalry.

There isn't significant hay to be made in Ohio right now. After the Big 10 picks it clean the big boys from the SEC, ACC come in, then Notre Dame maybe, then UK can fight Cincy, Ohio, Akron, Toledo, IU, Rutgers, Kent St, Eastern n Western Michigan, etc for some left overs...

As for style of play, I think we saw this year what will work with the roster we have. Run heavy, keep the D honest with some play pass and qb run.

We kind of surprised everyone with Benny, Boom, and even SJ but next year we won't have that luxury. The scouting reports and film are out on UK and the conference is going to take us more seriously so I think it will be important to improve through air to compliment our ground game.

Still very important to get the "speedster", especially one that can catch, because it will go a long way in helping benny and boom.

Oh happy day, lol.

 

[The-Hack]

brian.mikeson . . . .

I have not read the initial responses to your post, so I might well be repeating what they have said.

Kentucky and LSU's offenses are VERY different. LSU's offensive linemen seldom if ever run from the "spread." When the term "spread" is used, many fans viewing the game from the sidelines, can identify only that the wide receivers have spread from sideline to sideline. Those sitting in the endzone seats or watching coaching film from the same perspective know that the O-linemen literally spread apart at rather significant distances . . . . more than an arm's length, thence spreading D-End's, who have to maintain outside shoulder leverage with the widespread O-tackles. If you watch a team that runs from both the traditional I O-line formation and some spread, and they audible to a spread look, and away from the I, you will often see O-linemen stand up, stretch out both arms to the shoulder pads of their neighbors, and then spread to the prescribed distance. Then, you'll see the defensive linemen do the same. When I saw that for the first time, I said, "Oh, hell, the spread is about running lanes, as much as it is passing!"

LSU with Miles, and even with O has run from a tightly packed o-line stance on the replays I have seen, and had some passing success with it, too, especially with O at the helm.

Now having re-read your initial post and the responses to it, let me add that the teams you mention as "smash mouth" and Big Ten style are primarily running power from the traditional I, and less from the spread, obviously, LSU included. Gran very effectively used primarily spread looks, and backs capable of planting a foot, following the "best butt" on the line where the gap appeared, and gashing a opposing front sevens based upon space, and not traditional I formation pancake blocks. In fact, his rate of success finishing with the highest number of Kentucky rushing yards since 1976, with a limited (early) passing attack, should earn Eddie Gran national recognition as coordinator of the year.

Even with all the rushing yards, we ran not only spread, but also pistol type looks with the QB and one back . . . . allowing option/play action/RPO plays that are not used by I formation traditional running teams (although there are play action plays from the I, many would argue that the timing with the pistol stresses backers and safeties even more than from the traditional I).

I'll never forget going to the Mizzou game. Some in my posse wanted to know why with a 28-7 lead, we kept running the ball. I asked the classic country smart-arse question in response:"Why does a dog lick his nut sack? BECAUSE HE CAN." We kept running at Mizzou, BECAUSE WE COULD. The gaps were there consistently.

 

[3kidsandme]

Good grief...enough with this romanticized idea of Ohio and big 10 recruits...

We are not making anymore head way in big 10 country than in SEC country. We get what is left over no matter what side of the river we are on, save a few rare exceptions here and there.

This idea that there is some untapped treasure trove in big 10 country is nuts. The big 10 is just as prestigious of a conference. The trove has been tapped. Maybe 7-10 years ago when the buckeyes, wolverines, penn st were all down, Mark Dantonio hadn't quite gotten the ball rolling post John L Smith, Pat Fitzgerald was still early in his career, and the big 10 overall was in a down phase there was some opportunity. Not anymore.

Big 10 is probably the most exciting conference in football from top to bottom. Urban and Jim are the penultimate show, and new age iconic rivalry.

There isn't significant hay to be made in Ohio right now. After the Big 10 picks it clean the big boys from the SEC, ACC come in, then Notre Dame maybe, then UK can fight Cincy, Ohio, Akron, Toledo, IU, Rutgers, Kent St, Eastern n Western Michigan, etc for some left overs...

As for style of play, I think we saw this year what will work with the roster we have. Run heavy, keep the D honest with some play pass and qb run.

We kind of surprised everyone with Benny, Boom, and even SJ but next year we won't have that luxury. The scouting reports and film are out on UK and the conference is going to take us more seriously so I think it will be important to improve through air to compliment our ground game.

Still very important to get the "speedster", especially one that can catch, because it will go a long way in helping benny and boom.

Have you not been following UK recruiting? We are not getting leftovers. We have gotten several top 15 Ohio players. And some of GA and fla top players.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Don't look now, but physical football has become the new trend in the SEC. Bama, Arkansas, Vandy, Auburn, LSU, and UK are all reaping the rewards.

There will be trends. But the game will always be won or lost in the trenches.

 

[Tskware]

Don't look now, but physical football has become the new trend in the SEC. Bama, Arkansas, Vandy, Auburn, LSU, and UK are all reaping the rewards.

There will be trends. But the game will always be won or lost in the trenches.

Blocking, tackling, good defense plus sound kicking game has never and will never go out of style or become obsolete.

 

[mtn cat1]

Eddie Gran is a very versatile coach. He doesn't just coach one style he can put together many different types of offenses. This year's offense was center around the arm of Drew Barker. When he went down they had to make some major modifications. Johnson had zero experience at this level and they had to be extremely careful with him in the first few games, and not put too much on him. But they lengthened the leash as the season went on and Stephen improved every game. By the end of the season he was playing like a polished seasoned veteran.

My guess is we were about 55/45 run to pass this season, but next year I think we revert more to a 50/50 type offense which is what most coaches strive for, since it is the hardest to defend.

We certainly owe a big thank you to Coach Hinshaw for bringing Johnson along "S L O W L Y!!! Additionally owe Coach Gran a "big" thank you for his knowledge & skill in being able to "game plan & scheme" to UK's strengths!!!

 

[TeoJ]

I'd say Gran figured out what we had and used it to the best of our abilities.

 

[ArtSmass]

I love some of the responses here. Obvious some of you really understand the nuances of the game. I've always said if football took off in the state it would surpass the ferver for bball -- time of year, games more of an 'event,' more national attention, etc. But it's also obvious to me that for a program with little success, our fans are actually pretty knowledgeable about the sport.

Only post above I'd take issue with is where truebluewildcat implied we only get 'scraps' from Big 10 country like we used to from Florida and Georgia often (well, and also that he doesn't seem to know what "penultimate" means ).

 

[Crankdatmustard_rivals66299]

Johnson will make huge strides in the passing game between this year and next.

Love that kid.

 

[KDCats11]

Good grief...enough with this romanticized idea of Ohio and big 10 recruits...

We are not making anymore head way in big 10 country than in SEC country. We get what is left over no matter what side of the river we are on, save a few rare exceptions here and there.

This idea that there is some untapped treasure trove in big 10 country is nuts. The big 10 is just as prestigious of a conference. The trove has been tapped. Maybe 7-10 years ago when the buckeyes, wolverines, penn st were all down, Mark Dantonio hadn't quite gotten the ball rolling post John L Smith, Pat Fitzgerald was still early in his career, and the big 10 overall was in a down phase there was some opportunity. Not anymore.

Big 10 is probably the most exciting conference in football from top to bottom. Urban and Jim are the penultimate show, and new age iconic rivalry.

There isn't significant hay to be made in Ohio right now. After the Big 10 picks it clean the big boys from the SEC, ACC come in, then Notre Dame maybe, then UK can fight Cincy, Ohio, Akron, Toledo, IU, Rutgers, Kent St, Eastern n Western Michigan, etc for some left overs...

As for style of play, I think we saw this year what will work with the roster we have. Run heavy, keep the D honest with some play pass and qb run.

We kind of surprised everyone with Benny, Boom, and even SJ but next year we won't have that luxury. The scouting reports and film are out on UK and the conference is going to take us more seriously so I think it will be important to improve through air to compliment our ground game.

Still very important to get the "speedster", especially one that can catch, because it will go a long way in helping benny and boom.

What a nonsensical post.