Oh Gaad NO! The only thing about Crean is his brother in law has a lot of influence at Michigan but you cannot replace such a great guy like Bielein with that guy
Beilein to the Cavs
- Thread starter wocka
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Oh Gaad NO! The only thing about Crean is his brother in law has a lot of influence at Michigan but you cannot replace such a great guy like Bielein with that guy
Figures this would happen. My kid is heading to Michigan in the fall and I figured one advantage is that I'd have a reason to kinda', sorta' root for Michigan basketball in the background. I could never root for Harbaugh and the ugly hats, but I do respect Belein and the way that basketball teams plays. So, of course, now he leaves.
If Collins has a couple of more subpar seasons here (and if Dr. Jim leaves for Rosemont), he may be out of a job ...
Nah, probably will live in Shaker Heights. Or Parma. Maybe he'll buy LBJ's old house in Bath. It has helicopter airspace rights to make the trip to the Q a snap.
Not happening. There's a reason why some people feel he is a candidate for the Michigan job...
I suspect the game Dr. Jim and Collins....and perhaps even Morty....were at, was to create a noteworthy success and then use that to nudge the admissions goal posts over just a tad. Doing so would allow more sustained success.
LouV notes up thread that Collins was from Duke and knew what he was getting into. A few points on that...
* If he knew what he was getting into, how does one explain the not insignificant list of recruits that Collins has had to walk away from the last couple of years? Surely he thought they were deserving of an NU offer or he would not have dedicated the resources.
* This year the contrast between what other Big Ten schools are doing relative to basketball recruitment and what NU can do is startling. It is wildly out of balance.
* My argument is that standards not be relaxed so that NU is now dOSU. My argument is that the bar still be set for deserving students, but the gap lessened just a bit which would increase the candidate pool.
If NU isn't going to allow mens basketball to compete because of academics they should just say that and stop the ********.
I'm not understanding all the angst over the admission standards. The majority view of this board (okay, that's a wild generalization, but I think it's accurate) would say the level of recruit Collins has been able to attract to NU is far superior to that of any previous coach. He continues to get commitments from 3 and 4 star players, and they are admitted. I know getting kids into NU is much harder than anywhere else in the Big Ten -- that's what makes NU different. But Collins is apparently successfully recruiting kids who are considered good players, kids with other P5 offers, and he's getting them admitted. So to me, the next step is to develop and coach them into the post-season. Which, with one glaring exception, he has not.
Two things...
* seismic shift this year with transfers which, if sustained, pushes NU talent level further away from the Big Ten average;
* in the past six or so months there have been numerous reports of NU getting far, far down the road with a recruit and or transfer and then having to back out. And Heywood has informed us that admissions told mens bball, "no mas."
Yes, NU has done much better recruiting under Collins and Collins has had some on court success. But he keeps banging his head against the "NU ceiling" and eventually his brains will leak out of his ears.
I'm guessing the answer, then, would be a session with Dr. Jim, Morty and admissions. It seems like nothing a little communications couldn't solve. Or not solve, in which case Collins would know exactly where he stood and could take appropriate career action.
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You said it all with" getting kids into NU is much harder anywhere else in the Big Ten" and that's exactly why NU will never win a conference championship or even finish in the top one third or make the NCAA Tournament on a yearly basis.
Getting players in the door hasn't been Collins' biggest problem. It's been player development -- turning good prospects into good players who stay here for four years. He's had one great class, a few hits in the remaining years and a lot of incompletes and failures, and that's why we are where we are. We have to be a program that develops multiple players in every class. We could abolish the admissions department and we'd still never recruit like a national or conference blueblood.
Collins upping the level of recruit has certainly given that perception. And I think with recent targeting he's going at the competitiveness thing a bit differently than when he first arrived.
But if you look at the top tier of the Big Ten, and you look at....say....the top three players on each team....you see a bunch of guys who would never be admitted to NU. Forget about MSU, forget about OSU, forget about Maryland. Forget about a sizable chunk of the talent on Michigan, Indiana and Purdue.
Wiscy is most analagous to NU.
Player development is a worthy topic, but really not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the U.S. Olympic teams with Joran on them playing against the Canada team with Bill Wennington. Canada got the best it could get, no doubt.
In my view, NU will always be "Canada," and the top tier of the Big Ten will be the "US Olympic team," no matter how much you "tweak" admissions. There are just so many institutional disadvantages for NU, starting with its long-standing policy of refusing to pay off players and their handlers. As we've seen from the recent assistant coaching trials, if you're not willing to pay, you're probably never going to be a consistent player in the one-and-done world.
Too cynical for you? Well, we can always go back to the more tried-and-yet-still-true obstacles. How many top tier players want to work as hard academically as being an NU student requires? How many want to go to a basketball program that hasn't won a Big Ten championship in centuries? How many want to play before small crowds, with a small student body that doesn't "worship" them like they do at the Basketball Factories? How many want to join a student body that is far less interested in athletics, as a whole, than grade grubbing? How many want to join a program that hasn't sent a player to "the league" for a meaningful career in 40 years?
At least NU is working on fixing the long-neglected facilities issues. But let's be realistic here -- even if they opened the doors to every minimum qualifier under NCAA rules, NU is probably never going to be a "destination program" for top players. NU will always be a "niche" program -- looking for players who are more academically than athletically-minded, who know that NU gives them the best educational opportunities because their NBA opportunities are naturally limited. That means there has to be a premium on identifying long-term potential and player development -- and that gets problematical in these days when half the NCAA rosters are turning over every year with the advent of the transfer portal.
While he is successful in reaching the pool he has, that is still only about 20% of what others can go after. It has resulted in open schollies over the last few years
No head coaching experience. Only assistant coaching experience in the NBA. Beilein was outstanding, coaching matters in college. Michiganders expect Final 4's, not sure that is realistic for Howard.
Beilein was outstanding...can Michigan do any better? I ask the question because of the quotes in the last week that Michigan needed to hire Howard to "return to the Michigan culture." If those are friends of Howard its a bad omen. Can you ask for more than Beilein did?
I'm not sure he has the coaching chops. It's more common to find successful coaches among former players who played wing/guard/forward....than big. I concede this is my impression, but guys like Bill Cartwright, Danny Manning and Kevin McHale stunk it up. I don't think Patrick Ewing is killing it either.
College is a guard game and coaching matters. Guys that played in the paint their whole careers aren't facile with the intricacies of guard play on both ends of the court. Again, my opinion.
There's a belief that Howard can recruit. He's a CVS grad. If he can't pull some kids from Chicago to a fine university like Michigan, that's a problem.
I think right now it's a 50/50 thing....could go either way.
I'm not sure he has the coaching chops. It's more common to find successful coaches among former players who played wing/guard/forward....than big. I concede this is my impression, but guys like Bill Cartwright, Danny Manning and Kevin McHale stunk it up. I don't think Patrick Ewing is killing it either.
College is a guard game and coaching matters. Guys that played in the paint their whole careers aren't facile with the intricacies of guard play on both ends of the court. Again, my opinion.
There's a belief that Howard can recruit. He's a CVS grad. If he can't pull some kids from Chicago to a fine university like Michigan, that's a problem.
I think right now it's a 50/50 thing....could go either way.
If I were a Michigan fan, I'd be pulling my hair out.
Manuel has taken a top 20+ program and put in the hands of a guy with no college coaching experience ... no head coaching experience and no modern recruiting or AAU experience.
There's no doubt Howard is a sharp guy, but that's a better job than giving it to someone with no experience.
Jeff Goodman also makes a great point that recent NCAA programs are littered with former NBA players who have been killed. Big names also ... Mullin, Drexler, Isiah.
It will be interesting to see who is on Howard's staff. He's GOT to have a strong, experienced right hand man.
From and NU standpoint, I love it!!
Manuel has taken a top 20+ program and put in the hands of a guy with no college coaching experience ... no head coaching experience and no modern recruiting or AAU experience.
There's no doubt Howard is a sharp guy, but that's a better job than giving it to someone with no experience.
Jeff Goodman also makes a great point that recent NCAA programs are littered with former NBA players who have been killed. Big names also ... Mullin, Drexler, Isiah.
It will be interesting to see who is on Howard's staff. He's GOT to have a strong, experienced right hand man.
From and NU standpoint, I love it!!
I don't disagree, but I also fail to see why anything has changed or why this is new news. We know there are institutional disadvantages to being a top tier football / basketball team at NU. That's why our upside goals for our coaches are to be consistently in the mid-to-upper half of the conference and to occasionally compete for a title, not to be a top 10 or 20 team every year like some others might have.
I feel like some here (this is a general point, not directed at you hdhntr) have redrawn the criteria / expectations / parameters for NU bball as an excuse, or to sort of move the goalposts for the underperformance of the last couple Collins teams. We always knew this was the case and I don't expect (or want) it to change. Collins was able to succeed despite these constraints in the past, and I believe that he will be able to do so in the future.
Wow this must be a "super quite period " for NU hoops only two posts on here since Monday. Wonder why?
It IS actually a quiet period on the NCAA official recruiting calendar, so not much happening...