He was recruited as a TE, so has he been permanently moved to WR? He looks like he has a ton of potential.
Ben Black
- Thread starter Plum Street
- Start date
He looks too small and way too fast for a TE. I see him as WR for sure.
TE? The kid as a recruit was 6 ft and a generous 190 lbs. he was never a TE recruit. He was always a WR track star recruit.
I seem to recall that. Sorry, I don't have an encyclopedic memory of recruiting. That's why I asked the question and appreciated the respectful responses, yours excluded of course.
Black took at least 4 strides while looking back at the ball in the air, if that ball didn't end up smoothly in his hands- it is 100% his fault. The only thing that would make the difference would be if the wind caught it at the last moment. 4 strides to adjust is huge.Yikes.
Ball never touched his hands - hit his pads and bounced backwards.
You tried ...*pats head*
Like most WRs, his head was turned to look behind him - that doesn't mean he saw the ball well.
If the wind was so bad it messed with AK's passes then it could easily mess with receptions.
People new to WR often try to catch long balls by extending their arms/hands out flat.
That often makes the ball bounce off their hands and fall on the ground.
A trained WR knows to extend his hands/arms up vertically and not horizontally.
That forms a basket of sorts for the ball to be scooped into.
Black is extending his hand outward and upward and not backwards until ball hits him.
He wasn't sure where that ball was.
If you think that response was harsh. I don’t know what to tell you. Kid is 6ft 190 lbs and was an all american track star out of NC. That’s all I said.
"Also a track and field All-American who can deadlift 470 pounds, Black runs a 4.36-second 40-yard dash, the 100-meters in 10.76 seconds and a 21.9-second 200-meters, adding speed to Rutgers’ wide receiving corps that hopes to see a number of speedsters breakout this fall.
Black is also a 4A 4x100 and 4x200 state champion who helped break the North Carolina all-time state and meet records with times of 40.87 seconds and 1:24.79, respectively"
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I probably confused him in my memory with Duff. Revoke my fan card if you like.
not sure why you took offense to my original post. Wasn’t meant to be.I've thought that Black is too fast for his QB.
He gets out front of passes (like the drop) and has to slow down for ball (often too high) while DBs make-up space they lost.
He has to bend backwards here to see/catch ball. If he caught this pass on the fly he's gone
You love wearing the black hat in this thread, don't you? Pun intended.I've thought that Black is too fast for his QB.
He gets out front of passes (like the drop) and has to slow down for ball (often too high) while DBs make-up space they lost.
He has to bend backwards here to see/catch ball. If he caught this pass on the fly he's gone
So would Greg, who also praised him for his catch before and after the drop. He's a young player. Cued up:
All may be true, but when the defender starts to fall, you have to have you head turned towards the QB looking for the ball and that didn't happen. Freshman mistake, and he will learn from it; he made a real nice play on the next catch that was tipped, so hat's off to him there.I have no idea what "advanced metrics" are and don't want to learn.
I've posted many times here that its harder to see out of a football helmet than most people realize.
A WR Looking "back and up" can have a hard time seeing peripherally with helmet sides in the way.
Black was probably looking up for ball when it was much lower/closer.
He was probably surprised to get hit by ball
Mahomes wears his helmet extra high because he can see better.
I'm long surprised more players dont do the same.
I look at Aaaron Lewis' helmet and I can't believe RU managers think that's a well fitting helmet (imagine if he was a WR)
He said "It hits him" and then said "he dropped it."
He didn't say he caught it and dropped it.
Of course the ball was a "bounce" backwards and not a drop because ball was never in Black's hands.
He also called the throw "awesome" which is a stretch.
It was decent but an "awesome throw would have been out front where Black could have had it in the basket instead of pads.
Hear announcers at 6:30 talk about INT caused by AKs "consistency" of misses with balls behind receivers
Throw a ball into the persistent wind of 20 plus MPH with sudden gusts mixed in, and let me know how accurate your throws are.
Same could be said for Black
I posted gif files from earlier games too - same tendencies.
Want short, quick hitters? AK is your man.
He throws the kind of passes GW could whiff on.
But over 20 yds the passes can get drifty.
Alas I think GS and KS like the pocket change passes the most.
Minn was the same way and a reason AK soured on Minn is that (he felt) Fleck was blaming him too much for woes.
That sounds like RU too
I think it’s more of a flinch as he was surprised the ball was in his face.
And Duff was never recruited as a TE by RU. Rivals insisted on tagging him as a TE in his recruiting profile but Duff was only looking to play WR in college.
Dude- Was the pass perfect- no. was it 90% perfect, yes
Black- we dont know if he picked it up late or maybe the wind took it or just a freshman mistake.
Really- Who the F cares.
AK made a really good deep throw- Black looks like he will be a star here. I have seen Britt, Underwood, Brown, Coleman, Harrison, Sanu, Carroo and other drop balls they should have caught.
You just want to keep on it because you don't like Schiano and while we know you like GW- you have carried it to a point where it is personal to you.
You claim at the high levels you played and continue to make stupid statements. Ill fitting helmets and you give 2 pictures comparing Black but a very quick glance- tells you the helmet is from at least 5-6 years ago or longer and the person wearing them, are not the same person.
Ill fitting and you use a video of the WR needing to take a half step to let the ball come in perfect and that is all that really needed to happen in this case.
Film room- they will show both and the question is- why didn't you do this? And hopefully, the response is- "my bad" or " It looked like it was coming into my hands and the wind caught it last second" and even then, Black would say- I still should catch that 10 out of 10.
His reaction on the play, says it all.
You may be Al Bundy- I dont know. And you played here as a WR and have not shared who you are- But thee are zero good WR's that would claim this as anything but their fault.
Really just time for you to stop sounding stupid as ****
He definitely flinched when the ball hit him, but I'm pretty sure I see his head turn slightly a millisecond before that. Like I said, a camera shot from the other angle would be better for determining whether he turned his eyes towards the endzone just before the ball hit him. I kinda hope he actually did take his eyes off the ball instead of misjudging that throw, that imo could be worse. I don't know if I've ever seen a receiver in college or NFL, maybe even high school, look a catch into his shoulder pads lol.
I never agree with Ashokan. Never. But in this instance I think two things can be true at the same time. It was a great throw and a hard catch because of his momentum, fighting with DB, wind and ball coming at an ever so slightly difficult angle overhead. Should he have caught it, yes but I don’t think it was as easy as everyone is making it out to be. If you put all of those circumstances together for other receivers, it’s definitely not caught 90% of the time. That being said, it really doesn’t matter. I think Black will be a star and he’s a frosh who made some excellent plays.
Oh well.
Most of my critics run toxic with suppressed rage and cant talk about anything without name calling, ridicule, mischaracterizations etc. That's a character flaw I don't have, and see encountering it from other possessing it as a positive thing.
If some people want to stridently claim "a great throw hit Black in the hands" then I'm not trying to convince them otherwise since its obvious the ball hit his pads outside field of vision and he was surprised by it.
Its also well known by players and researchers that helmets have blind spots. Obviously the game can be played with compromised vision, but vast majority of players know a helmet limits vision, and especially for receivers looking back and up. My main point with RU photos wasn't vision in general but RU players with awful fits. No players should be wearing helmets covering their eyebrows but I see it all the time.
Reddit is full of players posting about vision problems.
"Playing with a helmet on is much different than without. Your peripherals are much worse and looking up and down is more difficult than you’d imagine. The face mask being a few inches from your face makes it harder to focus on things, you really need to stay alert at all times. It’s harder to increase visibility though we have such good helmet technology now (Riddell 360, Xenith tech, etc) because it will still require covering by part of the face mask in order to, of course, protect the face. That’s why you see players having trouble finding the ball on a tipped pass or diving after a fumble. It just takes tons of practice not to mention the added weight, hence why football players get thicc necks."
His mind is made up. It’s pretty simple Gavin Wimsatt wouldn’t have needed to throw that pass to Black because he’d have run for 200 yards himself and 4 TDs. Didn’t you know? there’d be no need to worry about the classification.
There are times I need to learn my lesson too. He is one poster who is going to move goal posts all over the place and just never say he was wrong.
Now, it has turned into a lesson on how helmets work. I am glad he was able to share that with me as I never would have figured it out. And imagine how good some of NFL WR's could have been here if they only had better fitting helmets. lol
I don't disagree that wind or something else (i.e sun glare, a stumble or coming out of some contact, etc.) could mess-up a receiver's catch attempt. Except for possibly the wind, I don't see much else here though. Black is 4-5 strides behind the db, but maybe it was some other circumstance than taking his eyes off the ball for a millisecond. However I can't see any argument for that pass not being 99.9999% catchable.
He’s playing the semantics game. He is using the definition that it can’t be a drop because it never hit his hands or that he never had possession to begin with.
One thing he fails to account for--if our players were wearing those higher helmets, that would increase the wind resistance by a lot-and if you factor that into the equation and take the square root of pi and divide by the hypotenuse of an isosceles triangle, that slows down a fast runner like Black 20%, and he would NEVER been able to catch that ball!!! Let's see what his comeback is to THAT!!!
Agreed. But I think your calculations are a bit off. Not sure you are properly representing the effect of drag. You can see in the video that there was a towel attached to his belt.One thing he fails to account for--if our players were wearing those higher helmets, that would increase the wind resistance by a lot-and if you factor that into the equation and take the square root of pi and divide by the hypotenuse of an isosceles triangle, that slows down a fast runner like Black 20%, and he would NEVER been able to catch that ball!!! Let's see what his comeback is to THAT!!!
One thing he fails to account for--if our players were wearing those higher helmets, that would increase the wind resistance by a lot-and if you factor that into the equation and take the square root of pi and divide by the hypotenuse of an isosceles triangle, that slows down a fast runner like Black 20%, and he would NEVER been able to catch that ball!!! Let's see what his comeback is to THAT!!!
Nah - come on dude. E = MC squared. By virtue of Einstein’s theory of relativity, Gavin Wimsatt is the M and clearly runs at the speed of light. The issue is still that we let him go and he wasn’t there to run a QB draw play on that snap for an automatic TD.
Have we beat this horse to death enough?
Holy smokes, one drop and two great catches on a field that was nearly 120 F and 35 mph winds. Think we can move on?
Nah.
Funny thing is- most of us have said many times that the freshman gets a pass "pun intended" on the drop. And the kid is most likely beating himself up worse then we ever could.
It's a shame that we are discussing it so much as I came away from Saturday's game impressed with him. I am looking forward to see what he can do the rest of the way.
That’s lost on some who are hellbent on making their point no matter how bad it is.
Would that non td have tied the game?If so then it. Should have been caught.The rest of the season may have depended upon it
A drop that cost a win is a BIG drop.But let's not hash on it forever.Move on to a Win on Sst