Best reason to NOT fire Coach Stoops
- Thread starter Jared1985
- Start date
All we can do is sit back and hope for improved... everything next year. But as they say, hope in one hand...
Nor should be fired. People comparing him to Joker are clueless. Jokers the reason we are in this mess. Stoops is the one that's getting us out.
Joker went from 7-8 win teams to 2 win and empty stadiums. At least stoops has us winning 5 games and being competitive in others with some head scratching stuff. But, way above Jokers best.
Joker went from 7-8 win teams to 2 win and empty stadiums. At least stoops has us winning 5 games and being competitive in others with some head scratching stuff. But, way above Jokers best.
Kentucky wouldn't fire Mark Stoops EVEN IF Mitch Barnhart wanted to (which he doesn't).
No way UK is going to spend over $15 million on a buyout for a football coach that has actually led UK from 2 wins to 5 in three years (nothing spectacular IMO, but he's doing better than the guy he replaced). Throw in the improved recruiting and solid attendance, and why in the world would you spend $15 million to get rid of him? Then you have to give ANOTHER guy a 4-5 year contract worth AT LEAST $15 million.
UK fans might not like it, but Kentucky is flat out stuck with Mark Stoops through AT LEAST 2016, and probably through 2017. I say "stuck with" because I've lost almost all confidence in him to get the job done, and that confidence loss has nothing to do with five win seasons. I think a lot of people have lost confidence in him.
With that being said, he deserves another year to fix the mess. I'm not on the fire Stoops bandwagon, but if 2016 is a repeat of 2015, that will probably change. Stoops isn't going to win six games next year, but he can field a fundamentally sound team that doesn't spend dozens of snaps a game looking lost and disorganized. JMO.
GBB!!!
No way UK is going to spend over $15 million on a buyout for a football coach that has actually led UK from 2 wins to 5 in three years (nothing spectacular IMO, but he's doing better than the guy he replaced). Throw in the improved recruiting and solid attendance, and why in the world would you spend $15 million to get rid of him? Then you have to give ANOTHER guy a 4-5 year contract worth AT LEAST $15 million.
UK fans might not like it, but Kentucky is flat out stuck with Mark Stoops through AT LEAST 2016, and probably through 2017. I say "stuck with" because I've lost almost all confidence in him to get the job done, and that confidence loss has nothing to do with five win seasons. I think a lot of people have lost confidence in him.
With that being said, he deserves another year to fix the mess. I'm not on the fire Stoops bandwagon, but if 2016 is a repeat of 2015, that will probably change. Stoops isn't going to win six games next year, but he can field a fundamentally sound team that doesn't spend dozens of snaps a game looking lost and disorganized. JMO.
GBB!!!
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Prepare yourself for many upcoming decommits. Players looking to make the next step and succeed while doing so. Are learning UK is not that place. Stoops can't really sell improvement to recruits, considering we didn't improve. In fact we regressed. One of the easiest schedules UK has had in decades. And we finish with the same record as the year before? A truly pathetic coaching job going on here. And you can't tell me our recruits aren't seeing the same thing we are.
When will UK fans quit thinking in a basketball mentailty...of they aren't good in the next 2 yrs, then you consider a change.
The writing is on the wall. We've gotten worse as the season goes on. 2 years in a row. Too many coaching errors to count. Zero improvement. He deserves one more year (I honestly don't think he deserves it but he's gonna get it) and if no improvement. He's gone. If we wait 2 years to do that then we might as well shut down the football program. Stoops has proven to be a very bad coach thus far in his tenure.
Maybe when/if the entire team gets on the same page and fights for the same thing we will see a difference. There is way too much talk about a divide in the locker room for there not to be. That is something a head coach has to deal with. The coach may not be able to corral all those egos into a productive unit but that is his job. Sometimes if there is a cancer the only cure is removal.
When Stoops first came aboard I was unfamiliar with his coaching experience.
So I ask the posters here on the Lair, what makes you thing this guy can win?
I got several responses from the usual posters,
great defense mind!
comes from background of great defense teams that he coached!
family raised in football !
greatest recruiting ever at UK!
you are a idiot if you can't see that this guy isn't a winner!
Oh my, how the winds have changed.
The same posters are now calling for his termination.
Yet all the reasons to hire him are still in place.
How does anyone ever know weather a person is going to be a great coach?
You don't................
It's a crap shoot every time, no matter how great the candidate looks.
Now the fan base seems to be forming a division of, on the Stoops bandwagon
off the bandwagon, one foot on, the other off, the bandwagon.
One thing for sure, if Stoops's team has another meltdown next season like the last two seasons,it's over.
So I ask the posters here on the Lair, what makes you thing this guy can win?
I got several responses from the usual posters,
great defense mind!
comes from background of great defense teams that he coached!
family raised in football !
greatest recruiting ever at UK!
you are a idiot if you can't see that this guy isn't a winner!
Oh my, how the winds have changed.
The same posters are now calling for his termination.
Yet all the reasons to hire him are still in place.
How does anyone ever know weather a person is going to be a great coach?
You don't................
It's a crap shoot every time, no matter how great the candidate looks.
Now the fan base seems to be forming a division of, on the Stoops bandwagon
off the bandwagon, one foot on, the other off, the bandwagon.
One thing for sure, if Stoops's team has another meltdown next season like the last two seasons,it's over.
^Like a microwave. If we go 7-5 next yr, people will start to jump back on the wagon. Go 5-7 and more people will jump off. Go 9-3 and people will start carving "I love Mark Stoops" in every tree in the Bluegrass.
Not if we give them the stoops buyout deluxe. Any coach would love that. They can just tank the job, move on to a D-coordinator position elsewhere. And be getting paid by 2 universities at once! It's genius when you think about it. It's what they call pullin a mark stoops on these fools.
I expect the former FSU Def. Coord. to be able to stop a simple read option play. When your biggest rival uses one set to outscore you 31-0 in the 2nd half, fans are going to question the direction of the program.
The best reason not to fire Stoops.....We all need to remember we are the fat nerdy kid with bad acne, we are not going to get the homecoming queen, we will always have to settle. With that in mind and remembering that the idiot AD gave away the bank to Stoops, we will just have to wait until it plays out
Yep..and if there are a bunch of openings next year we better wait another year..then the year after, more openings, better hang onto him another year. If this is the kind of attitude we're going to have about football around here then why even field a team? Keeping a bad coach and risking further degradation of your program because there are other schools with job openings (which newsflash: is going to happen more and more every year in today's quick turnaround fball culture) is the silliest thing I've read on this board, and there have been some doozies. THERE IS NO GOOD TIME TO FIRE A COACH. It's just something you have to do. Even in a year where there are a lot of openings there might be less available candidates. You don't delay firing a bad coach because you feel like you're inferior to other programs that will snag up the better coaches. Come on
The biggest reason to keep Stoops besides the insane buyout is that I shudder to think of Barney hiring the next football coach.
No use getting upset any more. We are doomed for two more years because the school is burdened by his contract. The guy is a massive failure...his 4* recruits have gotten worse...his teams are disorganized and horribly coached...recruiting means nothing now because they are so poorly coached.
He Coaches scared...never rushes punter...always fair catches...Air Raid my butt...and then to see Dawson & Eliot out recruiting last night...oh joy to have those two back again...we should have the schematic advantage every game next year. I'm glad I no longer fund this mess outside of my cable bill and a occasional coke at a game using a free ticket.
He Coaches scared...never rushes punter...always fair catches...Air Raid my butt...and then to see Dawson & Eliot out recruiting last night...oh joy to have those two back again...we should have the schematic advantage every game next year. I'm glad I no longer fund this mess outside of my cable bill and a occasional coke at a game using a free ticket.
I've lost some faith in Stoops myself, but it blows me away that we have averaged 4-5 wins per year since Bear left and people are screaming for his head because he's got us to that point in just three years, even with some really poor coaching decisions.
I still have hope, however, because he's also still learning and I hope he grows from his mistakes. I have seen growth in game (clock) management in the last couple of weeks; therefore, I think he's learning.
Upgrading the talent and weeding out the bad apples might help us next year. Only tme will tell.
^Agreed.
To me the likelihood of Stoops flopping as a HC is just as likely as him succeeding. I actually feel that he can get us to bowl games yr after yr once his personnel matures. But will this be all he's capable of?
To me the likelihood of Stoops flopping as a HC is just as likely as him succeeding. I actually feel that he can get us to bowl games yr after yr once his personnel matures. But will this be all he's capable of?
It's definitely a fluid situation at the moment. However, to only give a guy three years after taking over what he did is a bit short sided, IMO. I can only imagine what the prospective coaches would think if contacted by UK.
"Stoops took over a two win team and they fired him after three years. Well, no thanks."
the only type of coach we'd get at this point would be another coordinator looking to be a head coach or a mid-major type hire. Problem with that is - using Jeff Brohm as aneexample - they're probably looking for a "bigger and better" job.
I love Stoops' blue collar mentality, his background, etc. I think he will learn because of his passion for winning. I am willing to give it a couple of more years to see how things go.
I said the same thing...last year. Now it's been 2 years in a row of the same mistakes, the same collapse. Like one other said, the writing's on the wall. Give him another year if you want but I'm not expecting anything different next year. Until he can develop what he recruits, he's nothing more than a good recruiter.
If Stoops goes 9-3 next year then I will personally start a "crow thread" in which everyone is allowed to bash me and I will be forced to 'like' all their posts. That's how unlikely that is, but also how much I'd like to see it.
If he also beats Florida in that same 9-3 season I will never criticize him again no matter what he does. Gawd I hate the f***ing Gators.
Not sure I understand how an AD negotiates a buyout at full contract value. It does not seem to make sense.
Coaches have buyouts in-case they find better opportunities. The AD/school should have a buyout in-case the coach under-performs.
Why is the buyout at/near his contract amount?
And that is kind of where the problem comes in. Most folks know next year is going to be nearly a repeat, possibly worse record-wise. It does take a coach a good 4-5 years in football to get his players on board and change the dynamic of the team.
The one exception you had was Coach Mumme. His style was against everything sec. So the opponents had to actually game plan for him.
No one knows if Coach Stoops can spot talent and improve upon it. As an assistant you have the luxury of making the suggestion and having the head coach make the final determination.
So it becomes an uphill battle when the recruits start wondering the coach/staff will be around once they sign.
If uk goes 9-3 next year, I will personally walk WITH YOU wearing a I LOVE UK sweatshirt from Papa John to Commonwealth.
"Most folks know?" Really? I'm one of the more knowledgeable fans on this site, and I certainly don't know.
Here's what I predicted when Stoops was hired:
-2013 - 3 wins.....we would look horrible because the cupboard is bare
-2014 - 5 wins.....we'd still look horrible but improve
-2015 - 6 wins.....barely scrapy out a bowl game. At times we'd look ok and at times look completely horrid. We'd get blown out at least 2-3x.....and it could come down to UL to get the bowl win.
I was certainly not surprised by what I saw this yr. I expected it more or less. That's why I'm not "running for the razors" like a few people on this board.....shouting, "We're gonna win 3-4 games next yr tops."
Xception brought up a good point in another thread. We had suck, upon suck, upon suck. WR's dropping balls, QB's missing passes, o-line missing blocks, defense missing tackles, bad coaching calls......and we still won 5 games.......and all with playing a ton of underclassmen in the 2 deep. If anything, I think it's logical to assume that we will win 5 games or more next yr as everyone grows and matures.....but not go backwards
We would owe him a lot of money and then no one would want to come here. He at least gets one more year.
1- Stoops and without a doubt a huge improvement over Joker. Not sure how that can even be debated. 2- I didn't think we regressed last year toward the end of the year. If you remember we played several teams who were coming off by weeks during a brutal stretch of games for us. We started to get dinged up and injured and we didn't have much in the two deep. We finally got a by week and came out strong against a Louisvulle team who was vastly more talented and deeper than us. We had no business being in that game. They put like more guys in the NFL off that team than most the SEC schools we played that year did. 3- Everyone was down on Neal Brown. But I'm pretty sure we all see now that he was doing his best with what he had and a hell of a lot better job than what Dawson has done. I honestly believe the offense looks MUCH better this year with him as the coordinator. I honestly believe that's the single biggest reason for our fall this season. I think we have 7 wins with him as coordinator and our defense looks that much better with a Neal Brown offense that this year would have finally been coming into it owns. .. 4- Stoops did make a mistake. His mistake was hiring Dawson. I understand why he did. He wanted as much continuity in the offense as possible cause he new this could be the year we made a splash. He however hired a guy who ran a similar offense as Brown, but didn't have the needed experience. As the season went on, things began to snowball. I agree 100% we decreased as the season went on. I believe it correlates almost exclusively with the short comings on offense and Stoops devoting way to much time and angst trying to insert himself into the offense. He screwed up. He's a young inexperienced coach who was faced with adversity in a year we all, including him, expected more. I believe with Brown it's a much different story this year. I believe he keeps Dawson another year to try to get things rolling on that side instead of starting over again. It's the snowball effect. I honestly believe we **** started going south he was as surprised as us. He started coaching scared. And he made a lot of dumb coaching desicions at the end of this year that he hasn't the two years prior. I hope he gains his conference back in the off season, makes some changes and gets his staff on the right page. We are a very young team. Next year is the first real year that the team will be made up of almost entirely Stoops troops. I think he lost a little control of things this year. The water started puring in and he never could fix the leaks. They just got worse. I hope he comes back stronger. I really believe he can be what we all thought at the start of the year if he can get his players minds together and his staff organized and his confidence back. If he's been broken by this year, he may never reach his potential. It's a shame for us all Neal couldn't have accepted that job just one year later. I really believe it's a different story if that had been the case. Just worst thing that could have happened. Outside of Marrow, only coach we could have least afforded to lose, we lost. IMHOP