Interior defense is atrocious. Blow by after blow by. Did the 7 foot guy even play? Also slender bodies are gonna get moved easilty by Big 10 beef.
The second one was also a game and a half, keep in mind. Playing 47 minutes against bigger, physical guys in the paint is a lot to ask.TBD, two different games, one we outscored the other team in the paint by 12, one we were outscored by 18. St. Johns isn't a great team yet, but they are bigger and physical.
We still haven't see one big and for some reason only played Ware four minutes so everyone was tired.
Cliff was decent - not as good as MJ but not below average. We were top 30 or so Ken Pom D every season he was on the team.Appreciating myles Johnson more every year. We have not had a good post defender since. Cliff blocked shots but was below average as a defender. Myles was elite.
I remember one color analyst saying Myles was the key to our elite D (was in 2019 or 2020). It’s true. He was that good.
Caleb helpedCliff was decent - not as good as MJ but not below average. We were top 30 or so Ken Pom D every season he was on the team.
After the last 2 years, hard to make this complaint right now. We have improved inside. How much is the question and relatedly, will the return of Sydnor help.Interior defense is atrocious. Blow by after blow by. Did the 7 foot guy even play? Also slender bodies are gonna get moved easilty by Big 10 beef.
You do know he played with Caleb who was arguably the best defender in the country? Cliff often got abused by smaller , skilled centers and by large bulky guys. I think at best he was an average defender except he was a very good shot blocker. He wasn’t even a great rebounder for a guy listed 6-11 (yes we know he was 6-9.5 measured by nba) with elite athleticism.Cliff was decent - not as good as MJ but not below average. We were top 30 or so Ken Pom D every season he was on the team.
I don’t know. When the following year we put forth the Lathan / Martini combo with a side of an injured and ineffective Ogbole, I came to appreciate Cliff more.You do know he played with Caleb who was arguably the best defender in the country? Cliff often got abused by smaller , skilled centers and by large bulky guys. I think at best he was an average defender except he was a very good shot blocker. He wasn’t even a great rebounder for a guy listed 6-11 (yes we know he was 6-9.5 measured by nba) with elite athleticism.
Hopefully, this year we will have reason to appreciate Gurdak. So far I really like what I see with Gurdak. Plays positionally sound defense without fouling, rebounds well, adds a new dimension to the offense, has very good post moves, hits his free throws at a very respectable rate and played 47 minutes against St. John’s without losing his effectiveness. In the two exhibition games he outplayed two centers who probably cost significantly more than him. If this year’s team is going to exceed expectations, Gurdak is likely to be one of the reasons why.I don’t know. When the following year we put forth the Lathan / Martini combo with a side of an injured and ineffective Ogbole, I came to appreciate Cliff more.
This. Cliff was a great athlete and shot blocker. Good rebounder but was eatin’ up by skilled centers. Great presence in the paint though. His springiness diminished as time passed perhaps because of injury.You do know he played with Caleb who was arguably the best defender in the country? Cliff often got abused by smaller , skilled centers and by large bulky guys. I think at best he was an average defender except he was a very good shot blocker. He wasn’t even a great rebounder for a guy listed 6-11 (yes we know he was 6-9.5 measured by nba) with elite athleticism.
Hard to have a similar defense when you lose a Mag, lose a Caleb, even Hyatt, Simpson were better defenders than anything brought to the Martini and freshman team.I don’t know. When the following year we put forth the Lathan / Martini combo with a side of an injured and ineffective Ogbole, I came to appreciate Cliff more.
God he would have helped that team immensely.This. Cliff was a great athlete and shot blocker. Good rebounder but was eatin’ up by skilled centers. Great presence in the paint though. His springiness diminished as time passed perhaps because of injury.
Great dunker but had no shot or offensive moves to speak of. That being said, if Cliff stays last year at RU to play with Ace and Dylan, RU makes the Sweet 16.
GO RU
I’m calling your bluff here. Caleb did not play for us Cliff’s last season at RU in 2023-24. Somehow we fielded a top 10 defense.Hard to have a similar defense when you lose a Mag, lose a Caleb, even Hyatt, Simpson were better defenders than anything brought to the Martini and freshman team.
No bluff, of course Cliff was a big loss, but we lost at basically every position. That was a dreadful defensive team.I’m calling your bluff here. Caleb did not play for us Cliff’s last season at RU in 2023-24. Somehow we fielded a top 10 defense.
Mawot Mag logged only 455 minutes that 2023-24 season. GG logged 571 minutes and nobody was worse than him on D as a frosh. Literally nobody. Noah F was dreadful at D - another 630 minutes. And Hyatt was far from a defensive stopper himself. Derek was a pretty good defender but your not giving Cliff enough credit. He played a big part on that defense.
Swapping Lathan and Martini for him crippled us. The D would’ve been much better if he stayed. No question. The rest of the surrounding pieces weren’t materially worse than the prior year on D.
Appreciating myles Johnson more every year. We have not had a good post defender since. Cliff blocked shots but was below average as a defender. Myles was elite.
I remember one color analyst saying Myles was the key to our elite D (was in 2019 or 2020). It’s true. He was that good.
I’m calling your bluff here. Caleb did not play for us Cliff’s last season at RU in 2023-24. Somehow we fielded a top 10 defense.
Mawot Mag logged only 455 minutes that 2023-24 season. GG logged 571 minutes and nobody was worse than him on D as a frosh. Literally nobody. Noah F was dreadful at D - another 630 minutes. And Hyatt was far from a defensive stopper himself. Derek was a pretty good defender but your not giving Cliff enough credit. He played a big part on that defense.
Swapping Lathan and Martini for him crippled us. The D would’ve been much better if he stayed. No question. The rest of the surrounding pieces weren’t materially worse than the prior year on D.
No bluff, of course Cliff was a big loss, but we lost at basically every position. That was a dreadful defensive team.
Ace was the teams best defender by year end. If you think one position, which was definitely a disaster that we knew was coming the minute Martini was our pick up, was the only drop and full reason we went from a top 30ish defense to top 320ish I can't help you. It was more than one spot. The entire team was built differently than any other Pike team prior.It wasn’t as bad as your making it out other than the 5. Derek/J Mike was solid at the 1 and the drop to Dylan / J Mike was next biggest. it still wasn’t as big as the 5. Ace arguably did many things on D better than Hyatt who was far from a plus defender at the 4. Mag dropped off hurt and whoever he was replaced with generally stunk at the 3. J Will was squarely average. He wasn’t awful. Tyson or Dercack at the 2 was not worse that GG or Noah. Again - if you go spot by spot - it was clearly the 5 that was the relative YoY disaster.
Ogbole is not a high major player. Cliff is a solid P4 starter but I don’t put him any higherI don’t know. When the following year we put forth the Lathan / Martini combo with a side of an injured and ineffective Ogbole, I came to appreciate Cliff more.
Well yes - and neither Lathan or Martini were that. It was a huge drop off. Ogbole was worse then than he was last year. Lathan was just awful on D.Ogbole is not a high major player. Cliff is a solid P4 starter but I don’t put him any higher
Lathan clearly overrated as a recruit as he was pretty high up the charts.Well yes - and neither Lathan or Martini were that. It was a huge drop off. Ogbole was worse then than he was last year. Lathan was just awful on D.
We were a top 5 or 6 defense actually I believe, and yes, not picking up a real center to replace Cliff was actually the biggest reason for such a nose dive. That’s not to say the D didn’t have other issues but it would’ve been A LOT better with Cliff. That’s the difference really. There’s no other player on the 2023-24 roster who would’ve single-handedly had that much of an impact on defense overall by sticking around. Only Cliff. That’s the perspective I’m basing my position on. The D still stinks if you swap Dereck in for Dercack. We make the tourney if you swap Lathan and Cliff. The D still isn’t top 10 but it’d probably have been top 75ish.Ace was the teams best defender by year end. If you think one position, which was definitely a disaster that we knew was coming the minute Martini was our pick up, was the only drop and full reason we went from a top 30ish defense to top 320ish I can't help you. It was more than one spot. The entire team was built differently than any other Pike team prior.
How good Knight will be this season as a coach is still unknown, but seeing his coaching during these two exhibition games suggests to me that he will do fine.Our biggest problem may be coaching. Lot of new players, some pretty good. We need good rotations and matchups and proper use of personnel. Pike has shown some questionable subs and now on medical leave, not sure if his fill in is ready. Unfortunately I don't think we get the most out of this team, hope I am wrong.
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