Biggest surprises

[pisgah101]

What players came in became better then you expected and what players were maybe a letdown from what you expected? For me the biggest surprise was what Mason became his senior year that was just amazing and prob how JJ blossomed from his sophomore to junior season. As for letdown it has to be McRoberts for me. I thought he would dominate his soph year while he was good he didn't do what I felt he was capable of.

 

[dukiejay]

Most recent surprises for me were Justise and Tyus. I knew both were outstanding, but I wasn't necessarily thinking they'd reach the level they did as freshman....particularly Tyus. I'd also say Jon Scheyer. He was a kid ranked in the 70s by Rivals, and really, he was probably the best and most consistent player on that 2007 team.

The letdown is probably Greg Paulus. Those who remember back that far know how much I was in this kids camp. In high school he just dominated but he kind of leveled out once in college. He was never a guy who would be mistaken for quickness, but he was crafty and had a way about him. But he really struggled with the speed of the college game. Really struggled. If he hadn't turned himself into a very good shooter by his junior year there's a chance he doesn't get off the bench much those last two seasons. Honorable mention to Taymon Domzalski.

 

[aah555]

In a positive sense, definitely Justice Winslow by a large margin. While I thought his mix-tapes were pretty spectacular, he's probably the only Duke freshman in the last 20 years at least who clearly come into college underranked. Justise's composite 247 ranking across all services was 13, which put him in a tier with guys like Ryan Kelly (15), Sulaimon (13), Elliot Williams (16), Gerald Henderson (13) of the past decade. In view of that, it was really stunning to me to see how effective he was on day 1 as shotmaker, playmaker, defender, and rebounder. I thought he'd contribute, but I never thought he would be a legitimate star player as a freshman who really carried us for stretches of the NCAA tournament.

On the letdown, Paulus is definitely the largest letdown -- b/c he really never became anywhere even remotely close to the player I thought he would be even later in his career. Unfortunately, I think that really set the program back, as we recruited with the expectation that he would be the star floor general of our offense for multiple years. As DJ said -- while everyone knew he wasn't the most athletic -- it surprised me how limited he was as a playmaker, and how he never really figured out how to defend the PG position. Even guys like Redick or Scheyer (who did not show up as overwhelming athletes) eventually figured it out by year 3 or 4. With Paulus, it wasn't that he just didn't become Hurley (which is how he was ranked), but that he didn't really even become Aaron Craft. Which is a little sad, b/c you could tell he wanted to be good and seemed like a great guy off the court.

Shav was also a disappointment.

As for Scheyer, I would say that Rivals ranking was just a bit weird. Scheyer was ranked by Scout as a 5* recruit (#20 overall) and came out of Chicago as a legitimate high-school legend (e.g., ESPN Chicago's once ranked him as one of the top 5 best high-school players in the city between 2000-09, ahead of a slew of NBA guys like Dwayne Wade, Andre Iguodola, Shannon Brown, Will Bynum ). It really wasn't a surprise to me at all that he was good.

 

[Showenuff]

I never expected a ton from Tyus, he gave 1000 tons. Amazing kid to me. Another surprise for me was the evolution of Quinn Cook. what an amazing senior year for that young man. Not many Duke players have ever disappointed me but I have to say Greg Newton was never on my like list.

 

[DukeDenver]

My biggest letdown was Kyrie's toe. That season could've ended much better.

My most pleasant surprise of late was easily Tyus Jones. I was not overly impressed with him after watching him play 2 games as a high school senior. Boy did that assessment suck, in a good way.

 

[acc hoops]

If you label Shav as a disappointment then I think you also need to say the coaching staff was a disappointment in regards to developing him as a player.
Not only did he have injuries he was never given a lot of quality minutes to develop.
His last game versus UConn he was 6 for 6 from the floor scoring 13 Pts and grabbing 6 boards in 14 minutes.
If Deng had not kept taking 3's Duke would have had another title.
While he has not had a solid pro career except for his playing in China Shav has been a better pro than Sheldon Williams. Ask anyone involved with Duke program during Shav's years and you will probably be told he was one of the best 3 point shooters in practice. Problem was he was not given the opportunity to be a stretch 4.

 

[aah555]

If you label Shav as a disappointment then I think you also need to say the coaching staff was a disappointment in regards to developing him as a player.
Not only did he have injuries he was never given a lot of quality minutes to develop.
His last game versus UConn he was 6 for 6 from the floor scoring 13 Pts and grabbing 6 boards in 14 minutes.
If Deng had not kept taking 3's Duke would have had another title.
While he has not had a solid pro career except for his playing in China Shav has been a better pro than Sheldon Williams. Ask anyone involved with Duke program during Shav's years and you will probably be told he was one of the best 3 point shooters in practice. Problem was he was not given the opportunity to be a stretch 4.

Don't get me wrong, I always liked Shav's promise and talent -- hence why I was disappointed when it didn't work out b/c of a number of reasons, including his inability to stay healthy. I actually attended school when Shav did, and knew a number of the team manager and a couple of the players -- and the general view about him was somewhat similar to Horvath in that he was a far better practice player than game player (not suggesting Horvath was as good a player).

With that said, a couple points. First, Shav's last game was not that UConn game, and his last season was not with Luol Deng. That was 03-04. Shav came back in 04-05 and had by far his worst season of his career (partly b/c of injuries) where he averaged 4 and 4, and was losing minutes to Lee Malchionni. Two, I'm very happy that Shav's managed to hang around a bit in the NBA, but he certainly has not had a better NBA (or professional) career than Sheldon. That's just silly. Shelden was certainly a disappointment, but in his 6-yr. NBA career, Shelden played 5586 minutes, scored 1618 points, and collected 1562 rebounds. Shavlik, by contrast, has consistently been little more than an end-of-bench guy who's played 1202 minutes, scored 340 points, and collected 363 rebounds. And, frankly, if Shelden wanted to hover around the league (like Shavlik) has, he could have taken the same route of taking a bunch of short-term, non-guaranteed deals and bounce around from place to place. I think Shelden went abroad b/c he was getting guaranteed year-long deals abroad and thought he would make more money that way than he would as a 10-day contract type guy who gets picked up and waived whenever a rash of injuries hit a particular team.

 

[acc hoops]

Thanks for pointing out my error about his last game.
I forgot about the appendectomy and his poor junior season.
I met Shav several times. He was very polite and respectful. Never did he complain about his playing time.
My son attended several of his basketball camps and won his Duke uniform final four basketball shorts along with a Portland warmup suit. They are too big to wear.
I still believe the coaching staff bears some responsibility for the less than stellar Shav career at Duke.

 

[FearTheBeard_rivals208808]

Most pleasant surprise was Jon Scheyer stepping in as the point guard his senior year. One of the smartest players with the ball.

Biggest disappointment was Paulus.

Like Show, I never was a big fan of Greg Newton. IIRC, I screamed at the TV over Newton's FTs on more than one occasion.

 

[pisgah101]

Most pleasant surprise was Jon Scheyer stepping in as the point guard his senior year. One of the smartest players with the ball.

Biggest disappointment was Paulus.

Like Show, I never was a big fan of Greg Newton. IIRC, I screamed at the TV over Newton's FTs on more than one occasion.

I should of added Jon. I had huge expectations for him and I was disappointed his first yr for sure which wasn't fair but his senior year was amazing lol. As for Shav I don't think it's on the staff at all. I read somewhere that he was a Christian and so is JJ but as members of the Duke team they both had a different view of how to act on the court. JJ believed and still does that you have to help yourself and play "ruthless" Shav didn't and brought his nice guy persona to the court which the coaches kept trying to get him to shed and be "mean" and aggressive and he chose not to

 

[skysdad]

Chris Carrawell for me has to be the biggest surprise. Never thought he would be ACCPOY and a 1st team All-American.

The biggest disappointment for me is Taylor King. Immature with no self discipline and one of the worst free throw shooters ever at Duke despite the fact that he was supposed to be a great shooter. OFC

 

[jimlsumner]

Joey Beard was pretty underwhelming for a consensus top-10 guy. An ordinary player at BU, after leaving Duke.

After his sophomore season, I thought Ricky Price was a future lottery pick.

Shows how much I know.

And Taymon Domzalski went from the ACC All-Freshman team to an afterthought. At least Paulus made All-ACC once.

Over-achieved? Wojo made All-ACC twice. He has to be in the discussion.

Chris Carrawell and Jon Scheyer-already mentioned--would also be on my short list.

And I've always loved David Henderson. Thank goodness K missed on Jo Jo Buchanan and Curtis Hunter.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Casey Sanders was quite underwhelming. He also stole my buddy's computer Freshman year in Bassett.

For his rating, Paulus was definitely underwhelming, though he had his moments (in particular when he torched Carolina in 2008 in Chapel Hill).

I want to echo the sentiments regarding the progression of Mason and JJ. Also, I'd like to add Nolan Smith and Quinn Cook to that list. Didn't expect anything close to what we ended up getting out of them by the end of their careers. Two truly special Blue Devils in my book.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

And Zoubek. Even if he only really shined the second half of his senior season, that's more than enough for me. He was the difference maker during the 2010 title run.

 

[HuffyJB]

Some interesting names mentioned. I agree with Shav as a bit of a disappointment. He came in very, very highly regarded and was a very big get at the time. His recruitment was hotly contested (I recall a story of Billy Donovan going to his high school during a "dead period" just to wave at him as he went inside). He could never quite live up to that billing, though a lot of that was due to injury. Shelden very quickly passed him as the premier big and Shav never really became anything beyond serviceable.

I agree with McRoberts as well. He came in as an almost guaranteed one-and-done, and top three player in his class. He was supposed to be the third weapon to be paired with senior Redick and Williams to put that 2006 team over the top, but he never showed that consistency. His sophomore year he was more of a victim of circumstance on probably Duke's weakest team this century, but them being the weakest team was at least partly due to his inability to become as dominant as projected.

I watched J.J. Redick play for the first time when he was a freshman in high school, and I enjoyed watching him develop. I knew he would be good at Duke in what I thought was a Trajan Langdon-type roll. I had no idea he would become the leading scorer in school and conference history.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

I'll never forget my Freshman year in 2002 when we player our home opener against Army. Shav absolutely torched Army. Cameron was going absolutely insane, and all of us thought we were witnessing the second coming of Christian Laettner. I know injuries derailed the vast majority of his career at Duke, but it's disappointing thinking how amazing he really could have been. Thankfully, he's managed to sustain a fairly lengthy career in the NBA.

 

[aah555]

While McRoberts never quite lived up to the hype, I wouldn't put him on any disappointment list b/c he was a legitimately good player. He just wasn't a great or dominant player. As a Soph., McRoberts averaged 13 ppg, 8 rebounds, and 3.5 assists. In the last 9 seasons since Sheldon departed, McRoberts soph. year probably stands out as the 3rd best year for a starting C for Duke (behind Mason's Sr. year and Okafor's freshman year). Not as good as we hoped, but certainly not bad. As has been acknowledged, I think he was just a victim of circumstances where, out of necessity, we were putting more on his shoulder than he could handle. I think McRoberts legacy at Duke would be completely different if he played on a more balanced roster where he didn't need him to be a primary scorer / creater all the time.

 

[dukiejay]

While McRoberts never quite lived up to the hype, I wouldn't put him on any disappointment list b/c he was a legitimately good player. He just wasn't a great or dominant player. As a Soph., McRoberts averaged 13 ppg, 8 rebounds, and 3.5 assists. In the last 9 seasons since Sheldon departed, McRoberts soph. year probably stands out as the 3rd best year for a starting C for Duke (behind Mason's Sr. year and Okafor's freshman year). Not as good as we hoped, but certainly not bad. As has been acknowledged, I think he was just a victim of circumstances where, out of necessity, we were putting more on his shoulder than he could handle. I think McRoberts legacy at Duke would be completely different if he played on a more balanced roster where he didn't need him to be a primary scorer / creater all the time.

I think that's a fair assessment. But it should also be noted that, according to some in the program, Josh wasn't a very good teammate....and quite frankly, just not a very nice guy. Again, this isn't confirmed, but it's been floated out there enough to believe it. When you add in that he hasn't been back to Duke since he left it certainly has some legs.

 

[dukiejay]

I should of added Jon. I had huge expectations for him and I was disappointed his first yr for sure which wasn't fair but his senior year was amazing lol.

Disappointed in Jon his freshman season? How so? He may have been our best and most reliable player in 2007. In fact, it's often said he was the one holding things together or that season could have imploded after the 0-2 ACC start and turned into our version of UNC's 2010 year. Apparently there was a huge disconnect between McRoberts, Paulus, and the rest of the team. And Josh and Greg weren't really on the same side either. It was just dysfunctional.

 

[dukiejay]

The biggest disappointment for me is Taylor King. Immature with no self discipline and one of the worst free throw shooters ever at Duke despite the fact that he was supposed to be a great shooter. OFC

I've told this story before, but during the 2007-08 my wife and I went to watch Duke play in Maui. Two things I remember.....the first was walking on the beach one evening with my wife after dark and Taylor was down by the beach laying in a hammock smoking a heater with a beer in his hand. Duke played the next day....so I immediately wasn't impressed. A couple evenings later we were out with some friends in town (Lahaina) and Taylor was walking around all by himself (smoking again) and later we saw him in one of the bars. I didn't know if he was a loner or just disconnected. I learned later it was a little bit of both. That story was never repeated by me until after he left because it wasn't something I wanted to bring to the board or mention here (I did tell Denn at the time)....didn't feel it was my place. But by midway through his freshman season it had become common knowledge that's the kind of kid he was. He liked the party more than basketball.

 

[dukehokie]

While McRoberts never quite lived up to the hype, I wouldn't put him on any disappointment list b/c he was a legitimately good player. He just wasn't a great or dominant player. As a Soph., McRoberts averaged 13 ppg, 8 rebounds, and 3.5 assists. In the last 9 seasons since Sheldon departed, McRoberts soph. year probably stands out as the 3rd best year for a starting C for Duke (behind Mason's Sr. year and Okafor's freshman year). Not as good as we hoped, but certainly not bad. As has been acknowledged, I think he was just a victim of circumstances where, out of necessity, we were putting more on his shoulder than he could handle. I think McRoberts legacy at Duke would be completely different if he played on a more balanced roster where he didn't need him to be a primary scorer / creater all the time.

I'll say this about McRoberts and Paulus, both came in at "desperate times" at Duke. Duke was about 4 years removed from a title and some very good seasons prior to that. Then the team fell short a couple of times until Deng hit the scene. And as usual, after a wildly successful Freshman blows into town and leaves, the guys next year or two are immediately dissected and compared to players they probably will never live up to. Not because they can't, but because players that talented don't come around year after year after year. They wouldn't be special if they did. On top of that, they made up the #1 recruiting class along with Jamal Boykin, Martynas Pocius and Eric Boateng.

But Josh and Greg were thought to be this cohesive unit that Mike Gminski himself characterized as the next "Laettner and Hurley". Maybe he just meant the fighting, because those two could not really get on the same page. And because of those lofty expectations (further fueled by really good performances in the McDAA game, one of the last actual "games" played with that moniker, seriously look it up, it was a really good game) they could never really prove to be what people wanted. They wanted young guys who could take over if Shelden and JJ faded (which they did) in the tournament and once they left, they wanted guys who would carry the mantle (which they didn't).

Then, almost unceremoniously, Josh left to go pro and Greg was supplanted by Nolan. Then, Greg seemingly handed OSU Duke's gameplan when they played a few years later in Columbus, which further cemented a bit of ire from Duke fans.

Were they that horrendous, absolutely not, but they had some lofty shoes to fill. They are sort of the Neil McGeachys of Duke players. Preceded and followed by greatness, but not given much time to prove who they may or may not have been.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Then, Greg seemingly handed OSU Duke's gameplan when they played a few years later in Columbus, which further cemented a bit of ire from Duke fans..

Count me in this camp.

 

[pisgah101]

Disappointed in Jon his freshman season? How so? He may have been our best and most reliable player in 2007. In fact, it's often said he was the one holding things together or that season could have imploded after the 0-2 ACC start and turned into our version of UNC's 2010 year. Apparently there was a huge disconnect between McRoberts, Paulus, and the rest of the team. And Josh and Greg weren't really on the same side either. It was just dysfunctional.

I guess I should have elaborated. I expected Jon to come in and be the next JJ I thought he would just fill that void (which was very unfair by me but I had huge expectations out if the gate) also what did Greg do for OSU game plan wise?

 

[DukeDenver]

Paulus was just slow and not a great shooter. He knew the game well though. McBob didn't know the game well.

 

[dukiejay]

Greg wasn't a very good shooter when he arrived on campus, but he became on by the time he was a junior.

 

[dukehokie]

Paulus was just slow and not a great shooter. He knew the game well though. McBob didn't know the game well.

I actually think Josh had a very high basketball IQ. I think he was a lousy teammate.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I'm going to have to go with Justise as a special surprise. I knew he was good...but I had no ideal that he was Superman good.

Disappointments...I agree with Sky about Taylor King. What a waste of talent...no work ethic, or discipline. A shame.

And another disappointment to me was Marty Pocius. I know he had some injury problems, but I still thought he was going to flip that switch. He did turn out pretty well, but not while he was at Duke.
He did have those luscious calves though. I always think of Rick Majerus when I think of Pocius.

OFC

 

[dukehokie]

I'm going to have to go with Justise as a special surprise. I knew he was good...but I had no ideal that he was Superman good.

Disappointments...I agree with Sky about Taylor King. What a waste of talent...no work ethic, or discipline. A shame.

And another disappointment to me was Marty Pocius. I know he had some injury problems, but I still thought he was going to flip that switch. He did turn out pretty well, but not while he was at Duke.
He did have those luscious calves though. I always think of Rick Majerus when I think of Pocius.

OFC

The Calves! I love it. He definitely had some glorious calves. I honestly fell like he could have had a Grayson Allen effect on those Duke teams he was on. Extremely similar skill set and really similar circumstances. He came highly recommended by an outside source (Jerry West). The knock was his defense, but honestly at the time, his D was no worse than JJ or Greg. He just wasn't going to play over them. And his O was better than Dock's and DeMarcus. Again, wasn't going to play over them.

IMO with Marty, K could've played him more, I just think the trust factor was huge there. That is one of the few times I question whether K made the right choice, but I wasn't there with them, so who knows why else he didn't play.

 

[aah555]

The Calves! I love it. He definitely had some glorious calves. I honestly fell like he could have had a Grayson Allen effect on those Duke teams he was on. Extremely similar skill set and really similar circumstances. He came highly recommended by an outside source (Jerry West). The knock was his defense, but honestly at the time, his D was no worse than JJ or Greg. He just wasn't going to play over them. And his O was better than Dock's and DeMarcus. Again, wasn't going to play over them.
IMO with Marty, K could've played him more, I just think the trust factor was huge there. That is one of the few times I question whether K made the right choice, but I wasn't there with them, so who knows why else he didn't play.

Yes, I think Marty was a bit a victim of his circumstances, and then seemed to lose confidence towards the end of his career. He's gone on to have a pretty good international career for both his club and country. Those teams from around 06-09 didn't have great talent by Duke standards, but they did have a gluttony of pretty good wings who came in around the same time, including Scheyer, Gerald, Nolan (when he played off the ball) + Demarcus his first couple seasons / Elliot Williams his last year. Scheyer / Pocius basically served the same role on the team before the 09-10 season, and K made a decision early on that he trusted Scheyer more and gave him all the minutes -- which, in turn, exaggerated the differences between the two b/c Scheyer was getting tons of experience while Pocius was losing confidence. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think K's decision here significantly impacted the fate of those teams. However, I do think it was a bit of a mistake -- and I still remember watching Pocius lighting up NBA guys at the 2010 world champions (on various countries) and wondering how in the world we never figured out to use him more effectively. He was not the second coming of Manu Ginobli, but, aside from Gerald -- he probably had as much natural talent as any of those guys and has arguably gone on to have the 2nd best pro career out of the group.