Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, and Sosa

[J_Dee]

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling and Sammy Sosa all failed to reach the MLB Hall of Fame in their final year of eligibility.

Do you think they deserve induction? They'll probably eventually all get enshrined, though it might take a while.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

What even is the argument against Schilling?

 

[rudd1]

What even is the argument against Schilling?

-right wing politics post baseball career.

 

[funKYcat75]

Bonds, definitely. HOF from day one.

Clemens, definitely. HOF from day one.

Sosa, probably. But most of his damage was done during the steroid era and I'm not sure they get past that.

Schilling, maybe. He pissed off baseball media pretty bad, so it might have to be the veteran's committee, although I think he wasn't very well liked by anyone.

 

[catlanta33]

Bonds is a HOF talent but he's such a prick and he did cheat. F him and hope he never gets in.

Clemens is a HOF talent but he's such a prick and he did cheat. F him and hope he never gets in.

Sosa is a caricature and exploded a corked bat in the middle of a game. F him and hope he never gets in.

Big Papi is funny, nice, charming, makes the sports writers feel all good about themselves and I'm sure what is a large concentration of NE voters paved the way.

Schilling should be in, doesn't seem like a prick but also abrasive to voters. Like him and hope he gets in.

 

[Col. Angus]

Every ****** one of em.

McGwire too. And Palmeiro. And Rose.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

The thing about Bonds is that he was already a great player before he magically became gigantic with nothing but proper diet and exercise*

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Sosa won't get in because he's white now

 

[KingOfBBN]

Bonds, definitely. HOF from day one.

Clemens, definitely. HOF from day one.

Sosa, probably. But most of his damage was done during the steroid era and I'm not sure they get past that.

Schilling, maybe. He pissed off baseball media pretty bad, so it might have to be the veteran's committee, although I think he wasn't very well liked by anyone.

Ty Cobb was one of the worst human beings to play sports and no one would hesitate to say he is one of the best ever. To me, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling not being in is a total joke. The HOF has so many guys who were never actual stars and just managed to play long enough to have decent enough stats. It's a crock of **** to deny these guys this honor just because of sanctimonious media.

 

[KingOfBBN]

The thing about Bonds is that he was already a great player before he magically became gigantic with nothing but proper diet and exercise*

His HR stats are interesting when you see that he only hit more than 49 HRs ("only" LOL, I'm making it sound like it's some common thing) one time and that was the 2001 season with 73 Home Runs. That's just kind of interesting to me when you look at it as if you're a teacher and you have a student who is consistent and then jumps to a perfect score and then never again.

With the Pirates, the most HRs he had in a season was 34. Then he goes to the Giants in 93, and then he has 8 seasons of 40+ HRs.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Ty Cobb was one of the worst human beings to play sports and no one would hesitate to say he is one of the best ever.

Yep. There are a lot of pieces of crap in sports. My dad pretty much worshipped Mickey Mantle growing up. I bought him a biography about Mantle several years ago. He got pissed at me because he said I "ruined his childhood".

I think my favorite part of The Sandlot is when Babe Ruth comes and talks to Benny. Because it totally left out Babe Ruths fondness for booze, cigars, and hookers.

 

[funKYcat75]

Ty Cobb was one of the worst human beings to play sports and no one would hesitate to say he is one of the best ever. To me, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling not being in is a total joke. The HOF has so many guys who were never actual stars and just managed to play long enough to have decent enough stats. It's a crock of **** to deny these guys this honor just because of sanctimonious media.

Agreed, but the media has the votes for now so it ain't happening. Veteran's committee (or whatever it's called now) might give Schilling a look, but he was an *** to teammates and blabbed on other players.

Doesn't make it right, but that's just how it is.

 

[TCurtis75_rivals88839]

Every one of them deserves to be in as does Rose. How can you have a HoF without the all time hits leader, the home run leader, and the Cy Young leader? Not to mention they voted Papi in and he actually tested positive for Steroids back in 03. I don't think Bonds ever tested positive. What rational do they have there?

Also, they recently changed the HoF rules in order to make sure Bonds and Clemens didn't make it. The selection process for MLB HoF is an absolute joke and the HoF has lost all credibility because of how the pick people.

 

[SWFLwildcat06]

Juiced or not, 73 HR in a season is f’n incredible.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Juiced or not, 73 HR in a season is f’n incredible.

Is it as incredible as 4 TDs in one high school football game?

 

[UnfrozenCatfanLawyer]

They all should be put in, but it should be made abundantly clear what their circumstances are.

 

[SWFLwildcat06]

Is it as incredible as 4 TDs in one high school football game?

You would have to ask that question to the legend himself Mr. Al Bundy.

 

[trueblujr]

None of them should get in before Pete Rose gets in. Even though he bet on his own team to win, it doesn't diminish one bit what he accomplished on the field as a player and the record he holds that will never be broken.

 

[berniecarbo]

I'm going to say no on all of them. Personally, I like Schilling, but I think his total wins put him in a category a little below HOF. No on the others over the roids issue. Even Babe Ruth is said to have used a corked bat, but roids use is imo much worse. I also really liked McGwire being a Cards fan, but no to him also. He hit 49 homers as a rookie before using roids (he missed the last game of the season that year to attend his son's birth-passing up a chance to be the first rookie to hit 50 homers).

 

[roguemocha]

Bonds, definitely. HOF from day one.

Clemens, definitely. HOF from day one.

Sosa, probably. But most of his damage was done during the steroid era and I'm not sure they get past that.

Schilling, maybe. He pissed off baseball media pretty bad, so it might have to be the veteran's committee, although I think he wasn't very well liked by anyone.

I was going to respond to this^ with this below but you beat me to it. Cobb beat up people with bats and was reportedly a vile human being but he’s in Field Of Dreams so he gets a pass lol.

Ty Cobb was one of the worst human beings to play sports and no one would hesitate to say he is one of the best ever. To me, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling not being in is a total joke. The HOF has so many guys who were never actual stars and just managed to play long enough to have decent enough stats. It's a crock of **** to deny these guys this honor just because of sanctimonious media.

 

[Catman100]

Every one of them deserves to be in as does Rose. How can you have a HoF without the all time hits leader, the home run leader, and the Cy Young leader? Not to mention they voted Papi in and he actually tested positive for Steroids back in 03. I don't think Bonds ever tested positive. What rational do they have there?

Also, they recently changed the HoF rules in order to make sure Bonds and Clemens didn't make it. The selection process for MLB HoF is an absolute joke and the HoF has lost all credibility because of how the pick people.

Widely reported those results were tainted and it's possible those players who tested positive could have actually been using things that were allowed. Oh and he only played another 13 years and never tested positive in any way.

 

[Catman100]

None of them should get in before Pete Rose gets in. Even though he bet on his own team to win, it doesn't diminish one bit what he accomplished on the field as a player and the record he holds that will never be broken.

I'll go to my grave saying there is no way Pete bet on the Reds to win on a night their 4th starter was going up against Steve Carlton or Fernando Valenzuela. Just cannot imagine he would take the night off from betting on nights like that. So yea, I think he bet against the Reds.

 

[roguemocha]

Widely reported those results were tainted and it's possible those players who tested positive could have actually been using things that were allowed. Oh and he only played another 13 years and never tested positive in any way.

Oh so he quit doing steroids or just got ahead of the testing? Bonds never tested positive. If you have the right doctor/coach you can easily beat these tests. Stop kidding yourself.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Other than sosa they should all be in. Schilling is the most egregious omission because it's totally political. If they're going to consider politics, of any sort, they should at least say it publicly in advance. It's a joke either way.


Bonds and Clemons were hof players before the period of steroid use.

It just shows what a sham baseball is now.

 

[Catman100]

Oh so he quit doing steroids or just got ahead of the testing? Bonds never tested positive. If you have the right doctor/coach you can easily beat these tests. Stop kidding yourself.

Read the first sentence of my reply again, and then hit up your buddy GOOGLE. Even the commissioner of baseball said those results were inconclusive due to not being able to distinguish certain legal and banned substances. And I just read something this morning from an ex teammate that said he never saw anybody tested more than Papi. He would get tested 2-3 times a week, and other players once or twice a year.

And like I said, he played another 13 seasons. Now if he was using PED's all that time but escaped capture due to the right doctor/coach, then kudos to both of them. But I would need more than your assumption before I put him in the definite PED category.

And I was simply pointing that out about Papi, never mentioned Bonds. But if you are going to press me on it, positive test or not, nobody in the history of the game screams PED use more than Bonds.

But with that said, I go back and forth on him, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and even Rose. If you are going to have a hall of fame without the home run leader, all time hits king, and one of the greatest pitchers of all time, WTF is the point?

 

[J_Dee]

I'll go to my grave saying there is no way Pete bet on the Reds to win on a night their 4th starter was going up against Steve Carlton or Fernando Valenzuela. Just cannot imagine he would take the night off from betting on nights like that. So yea, I think he bet against the Reds.

Agreed.

ESPN: Dowd says Rose 'probably' bet against team

 

[KingOfBBN]

^ I stopped the "Pete should be in the HOF" support once this dude came out and said "Yeah, I did it" after lying for 15 years. I don't think he should be banned from baseball but I don't care to argue for the guy.

Related question- Would you rather have a World Series ring (a player who really contributed) or no WS ring but you end up in the HOF?

 

[rick64]

Is the MLB HOF for the best of the best to get honored for their contribution and achievements to the game? If that's the standard, then known cheaters shouldn't get honored or recognized in any way in the HOF.

Or is the HOF a museum to document the history of MLB? If that's the standard, then put the cheaters in and put on their plaque/bust that they used PEDs, bet on games, doctored baseballs, etc.

I'm fine with either one as long as we're applying the same rules across the board.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Juiced or not, 73 HR in a season is f’n incredible.

73 is incredible. But without the juice he may have only had 40 HRs, plus 33 deep shots that were caught on the warning track.

 

[Blue63Madison]

What so many completely ignore is the fact these guys were putting up HOF numbers while competing against many other players who were using PED’s too. It’s not as if five players were juiced and the rest of the league was clean. MLB just needs open a new HOF wing for the PED era and let this subject die.

 

[berniecarbo]

What so many completely ignore is the fact these guys were putting up HOF numbers while competing against many other players who were using PED’s too. It’s not as if five players were juiced and the rest of the league was clean. MLB just needs open a new HOF wing for the PED era and let this subject die.

This is why I object to the PED guys. By using, they are forcing others to use to stay competitive even if they have health concerns about it. Stay honest and you are at disadvantage

 

[KingOfBBN]

Imagine if Griffey used PEDs. His career would have been even more impressive and he would’ve healed faster from the injuries that plagued him after 2000. But it's really hard to fault these guys.

“You’re 25 years old. You have two kids. You’re up and down, Triple-A, big leagues,” Griffey said. “This $100 vile of steroids can keep you in the big leagues to make a half-million dollars. What do you think people are going to do?”- Griffey said.

 

[Blue63Madison]

This is why I object to the PED guys. By using, they are forcing others to use to stay competitive even if they have health concerns about it. Stay honest and you are at disadvantage

How do we know who was juicing first? Maybe Bonds and Clemens started juicing in reaction to hearing others already were?

 

[J_Dee]

I don't agree with Curt Schilling on much, but I don't think that he should be excluded for his opinions. He's got the stats and three championships.

I'm torn on Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa. I case see the cases for and against.

 

[berniecarbo]

He do we know who was juicing first? Maybe Bonds and Clemens started juicing in reaction to hearing others already were?

I've read Bonds juiced because McGwire was. I understand those who disagree, but for me, it's no to both.

 

[KingOfBBN]

You going to tell me Ortiz didn't use steroids? I bet he absolutely did.

 

[Anon1640710541]

Bonds is the most deserving on that list, followed by Clemens. I think those two would have been Hall of Famers even without the juice. They'll get in eventually, but I think waiting and agonizing for years is a pretty fair punishment for how significantly their cheating impacted the game.

Sosa is a tough call for me. If you said he would have been a middling slap hitter without steroids, I'd have a hard time arguing with that. He may have benefitted more than anyone from the juice. I'm kind of leaning towards him never making the cut.

Schilling absolutely should be a Hall of Famer, and he eventually will be. His politics will get the most attention, but he also nearly bankrupted the state of Rhode Island, has always been a loudmouth idiot, and actually asked to be taken OFF the ballot this year (it was denied). He should be in, but he really has nobody to blame but himself.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

I see people saying Bonds was a hall of famer without the PEDS. Do we know when he allegedly starting using PEDs? His first several years in the league were good but not on a path that would lead you believe he would eventually be in the hall of fame. Then suddenly his average and home run production took a major leap and stayed at that level. My assumption is that is probably when he started using and without PEDs he would have been a good hitter but certainly not a hall of fame level hitter. Maybe he just got a lot better at the plate and the PEDs didn't come until later. If that's the case, then maybe he would have been a hall of fame level player without the PEDs but I'm not familiar enough with the accusations on him to know when they suspect he began using.

 

[thabigbluenation]

None of them deserve the headstone.

If you go to Cooperstown you will see their accomplishments there in some fashion. They are or at least what they did is commemorated in the Hall.

Their punishment is not having their name along the Hall of the greats. One day they will all be in that group anyway.

It is a museum. Their names are there. Just not in the more prestigious room in that museum. For now.

They were all insanely great. They all also knowingly cheated in some form. They are serving some time in baseball purgatory for it.

They are all also insanely rich. They are fine.

 

[stereonut]

Ty Cobb was one of the worst human beings to play sports and no one would hesitate to say he is one of the best ever. To me, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling not being in is a total joke. The HOF has so many guys who were never actual stars and just managed to play long enough to have decent enough stats. It's a crock of **** to deny these guys this honor just because of sanctimonious media.

As far as I can tell about Cobb, you’re right, he was a tremendous jerk.
But, I’ve never heard that he cheated while playing baseball like those in question here (other than Schilling).