I agree, just frustrating sometimes. Yes Cam is more highly recruited/ranked higher but damn, one would think Alex was a walk-on sometimes lol.
Boogie Ellis
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The first half of the year he did not. He was subbed out for White who logged as many or more minutes. Then white fell apart.
Memphis insider called it on 3/15/19.
https://247sports.com/college/memph...-Recruiting-Thread-NEW-428-131627304/?Page=14
Looks like it was Tre coming back and not Stanley.
https://www.dukebasketballreport.co...gie-explains-his-decommitment-duke-basketball
https://www.dukebasketballreport.co...gie-explains-his-decommitment-duke-basketball
We focus so much on Alex’s defensive liabilities and such, but go back and watch him again. I was surprised a bit too. He catches the ball and never even looks toward the lane. Maybe that’s by design but I doubt it. His ball handling may be his worst attribute by far...right now.
He actually has decent defensive instincts off ball. On ball, he suffers for sure (as do many players). If he can become serviceable putting the ball on the deck, I really think his defensive woes will be ignored and he’ll see consistent time.
But he can’t continue the trend he has started where he won’t look to penetrate. That skill is a must in college level ball.
I'd much rather have Tre back. And Stanley is a good pick up. To me the key to our season is getting a big back.
Well good thing we got Cassius cause it sounded like boogie was leaving either way
Admittedly, I only read the first page of this long thread. I came here to see what the deal was with him decommitting. Pretty classy of most of your fan base to wish him luck and see the reality of the situation. Most fan bases, and especially forums, typically hate on a kid for this type of thing.
From an outsiders perspective, most guys that Duke is in on can play right away. No questions asked. And kids of that caliber want to play right away. Nice luxury for your program to have!
From an outsiders perspective, most guys that Duke is in on can play right away. No questions asked. And kids of that caliber want to play right away. Nice luxury for your program to have!
Yep, agreed. I swear it’s almost like he’s been instructed not to do that or afraid to go away from the set. I highly doubt that’s the case but interesting to see.
Let’s agree to disagree here lol - I know how it works but my point is the significance of that leeway. It’s pretty crazy IMO.
One would think he would want to come and learn from a natural PG like Tre. He must truly be looking to be one and done, and while he’s a good player, it doesn’t appear he’s a good enough PG to leave after one year (although he could go all Coby White this year).
Boogie has got a lot of thread time for a 4 star player. Just saying OFC
I’m convinced every recruit in the top 50 comes to college thinking they are 1 and done..
This haha. I may be wrong and he may tear up college like Tre Young but there was an awful lot of excitement around a 160 pound top 40 guy. To my eye he looks like a guy who will blow up his 2nd or 3rd year but clearly he thinks differently.
I think Boogie requesting a release from his LOI is the same reason why Billy McCaffrey left Duke early. The odds of making the NBA as a two-guard are infinitely smaller when you're a bit undersized. McCaffrey knew he wasn't getting point guard duties with Bobby Hurley running the show. Same with Boogie Ellis, knowing he'd have to play off the ball with Tre Jones. If a 6'3 kid can run a team as point guard, he might have a shot at the league. I'm sure those in Boogie's camp have been telling him this. This is tough loss, no question. Wish him well... and hope he doesn't sign with Virginia.
I remember a time not too long ago, where an undersized shooting guard named Seth Curry transferred TO Duke to prove himself against better competition..
And is now on a playoff NBA team playing valuable minutes when no one thought he had a chance to sniff the NBA before he transferred to Duke.
We lose a Boogie but gain a Stanley. So it's about the same. I like Goldwire getting minutes backing up Tre. That kid is going to surprise us again.
And that’s the head scratcher here. Not that my official take is that Boogie was “scared off,” but it’s strange to me that a guy who has such a notes chip on his shoulder would make this decision.
Agree with most of ur points but many of his problems come with being so skinny.At this stage he is easily stripped when he does try to penetrate.I am hoping that another year of maturity and the weight room will alleviate this problem.Not every kid comes to college with a body like Trent or RJ.Imo he had the requisite skills to be successful at this level if he gets stronger.He may be taking the route that us old farts remember when the saying was the best thing about a sophomore was that he will soon be a junior.Not everything has to be instant gratification
I have long complained about the lack of experienced bench. So let Alex, Jordan, Joey and Jack play through their mistakes and learn. I have faith they will do that this year.
Yeah, but there’s plenty of skinny guys who are good and willing ball handlers. I’m all in on his race being more of a marathon.
I’m not saying he can’t improve. I’m saying IMO, his biggest flaw has been his ball handling, which includes dribbling and passing.
I hate we lost him, really like him. However, I think we're fine in the pg dept. Next play.
AOC did make one or two moves that show he has the skills just not the confidence. I forget which game he made a clever between the legs move into the lane. He just seemed so timid. Well he'll have to have all the opportunity in the world this coming season. I'm hoping for the best as well always do here.
I hate it we lost Boogie, I felt like he would have a Nolan Smith type career at Duke. He's a heck of a player and will be a very good college player. Good luck to him. Duke will be fine and I think AOC will make huge strides next season.
GOOD POST JURKIN! OFC
Kid's got natural ability no question! Shot going out of bounds vs Syracuse in Durham was one for books! OFC
Three things in comments above (including this one) that are just completely bogus, and a 4th that is likely also spurious:
1) he is just shrinking from or scared of competition.
2) It's a new age mentality from these young, selfish kids.
3) These kids just don't want to wait for their time.
4) Tre's return led to this.
One, the fact is, K doesn't play a bench. Everyone knows that. Sure, he throws a bone out to guys when they are playing Portland St. on December 15th IF Duke gets up by 40 with 12 minutes to go - then you get a full 12 minute burn. That's simply a problem. It hurts the team and the program (as this does). If K had a reputation of using 8-10 players, that would be different. If he had confidence he'd still likely get 15-20 minutes in big games in the ACC, good chance he'd still be here. You just aren't getting a chance to go on the court in games and show what you can do.
Two, is just old guy lamenting. And I'm an OFC here. If you are a top recruit you want to go to a place where there is an opening to play and an opportunity. Nothing wrong with that - the game itself has caused this, not the kids mentality changing. It's a OAD era, it's an era where if a kid like a Ja Morant gets a chance to shine, they can get to the next level. That's where society is, not the young whippersnappers.
Three, the fact is, most kids don't get a chance to develop at Duke. K is no longer about developing talent, he's about recruiting talent. The real likelihood is that he'd be recruited over again next year or the year after. That's the big problem K has with young players. He's changed to the point that he seems more interested in getting as many OADs as possible, maybe a 2AD like Tre every so often. And, if you aren't one of those guys, you are not going to get on the court, plain and simple. Duke sucked at 3 point shooting last year and AOC hardly got any time to really get in the mix.
This is partly a function of the OAD in that K struggles to teach team play with freshmen and feels they need all the practice time and time on the court to blend together (of course, this has only really worked once since the era of OAD has exploded at Duke).
You are not going to get time off the bench to develop, you are not going to really be worked in to develop into a group of players who get lots of time as 2, 3 year players. Rather, you are going be recruited over.
The short bench and the very strong likelihood of being recruited over top on your position the following year (let alone within the same recruitment period!) is the norm at Duke. And all that is on K.
Talked to a Duke insider last nite who still has solid connections since working in the Equipment Room there in the 80s. He said K was really upset Ellis waited until SO LATE in the process to ask out.....Dont blame K a bit, and these kids need to learn value of commitment! OFC
He wasn't consistently better. He was more talented but not always better. Those are two separate things.
He got way too much time and K never showed tough love to him or Barrett in terms of getting them to play better with the ball.
And the fact of the matter is, Duke did not make the FF or win the title for simple reasons:
1. Duke did not shoot from 3 and K never got shooters burn to develop confidence during the season.
2. He also didn't teach team offense where players were shooting 3s off a run and catch. His offense was far more dribble and shoot than catch and shoot and that is statistically a far lower %.
3. Then, the talented players took way too many bad shots and went one on one too much (a function of 2). And K allowed that. And it wasted an opportunity with arguably the best freshman NCAA player in the last 15-20 years.
K's MO with talented freshmen has been to roll the ball out and tell them to just play. Just do your thing. If it's one-on-one and you go 9 for 25, just keep doing your thing. There's an element of that which helps a kid not lose confidence early on. You have to make mistakes and not be penalized. But, then that has to be honed over the season. Instead, Barrett was making just as many bad plays in the Tourney as he was in December. If not more. Same with Reddish.
Simultaneously, K does not do that with lesser recruits. If you are a sophomore or junior and you are not a big time recruit, you miss a shot or two and you are out. If you hit two or three shots - you'll get some minutes. Even then, there's a chance you won't.
Duke basketball is still very good and I root like H*** for them every game, but the fact is K is not near the coach he was and his program is completely different. He's not a strong defensive coach (for all the reasons noted in recent years). He doesn't teach any sort of motion offense - or doesn't have the patience for Freshmen to make mistakes in November or December with that. He's also not a coach who develops players.
He's a coach who has a great reputation, he's a genuinely great human being, and recruits great. But, he's not coaching at all the way he used to.
He's mainly about letting the top recruits play, no matter how bad they play, and part of that is a function of the next year's recruiting class.
If Reddish gets benched, doesn't get big minutes b/c Alex has been given time to develop his shooting (or even Jack - who actually came out of his slump near the end of the year but then would get yanked as soon as he missed a shot or two), and if he began to sulk, then maybe K doesn't get Cassius to sign. Or some other recruit.
Therein is a central problem, among others, with how minutes are given.
Some may say it's the OAD era, but, that's a misnomer. K has made a choice to go the Calipari route in terms of team make up (though if Calipari recruits over-top a position he gives those recruits PT, unlike K). He hasn't gone the Villanova or UVA or Gonzaga route, and certainly not the Texas Tech route ...
As a result, Duke basketball is no longer the fundamentally sound, great defensive team, style it used to be. It will have flashes of greatness here and there b/c of the sheer talent on the floor. But, those flashes are just as likely to wind up losing to a lesser talented veteran team that knows how to play defense and plays a team game.
It looks great in the summer when ESPN gives Duke the #1 or #2 recruiting class. But given the OAD era that doesn't mean the same thing it did 20 years ago.
It means, if you are going to play 6-7 players only and give starters 30 minutes, you're more than likely going to go down in the elite 8 or sweet 16. Maybe one out of 8 or 10 times you get a run to the FF with that kind of approach.
Nonsense.
Communicate that you want the kid. That you think he's going to be great for the program. Ensure that he's going to get plenty of PT ... he's less likely to leave. Let him know how he's going to fit in with Tre (if Tre comes back). Tell him they both are going to be on the court and he's going to get plenty of time to score and plenty of time with the ball in his hands ...
The fact is, so many kids have transferred out of Duke b/c they get recruited over or don't get one of the top 5-6 spots in the line up that get real playing time in real games, and if you transfer out you have to sit out a year. He wants to play this year - or at least get decent PT (say 10-15) of real time and Not get recruited over. But, at Duke the odds are far less unless you are a top 10 recruit.
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The simple fact is, and people recognize this when they take their Duke colored glasses off (but that's rare here), if K had a reputation for playing 8-9 players, even in big games, if his stars got 25-28 mpg over the season, or if they didn't go with 3-4 guys getting 38-40 minutes in big games, and other players were mixed in. And if a kid stayed who got 12-15 minutes year one, then got 20-22 minutes year two, and that were the typical MO for the program, then players would stay.
But, you get a top 20-40 recruit and he winds up like a Chase Jeter or several others, he's going to transfer.
The kid who is a 50-100 recruit who comes to Duke b/c he's loved the team forever - he doesn't care. He wants to play but he's at the school he's always dreamed of.
But, you get a top 20-40 recruit and he winds up like a Chase Jeter or several others, he's going to transfer.
The kid who is a 50-100 recruit who comes to Duke b/c he's loved the team forever - he doesn't care. He wants to play but he's at the school he's always dreamed of.
You make a few points in this point, but for the most part, they're extremely radical....which only lessens the substance. Seldom are things as black and white as you're painting.
Of the Final Four teams this past season, only Auburn played more than seven players consistently in the NCAAT. Benches shrink. I thought K was much more reliant on his bench this past season and even creative in the hopes they would step up. Problem is, they didn't. We can argue where development occurs....some people think it's in games, and others think it's through hard work when the games aren't being played.
Also, Boogie, in a roundabout way, pretty much acknowledged that he's not coming to Duke because of Tre returning. I can live with that.
Lastly, K is going to recruit the best players in the country every year. He did that in the 80s and he's doing it today. But two things....1) times change, and 2) he's incredibly hot on the recruiting trail right now. Kids have different ideas coming into college today than they did two years, five years ago and 10 years ago. He's certainly adapted....we can't fault him there. And, if one or two bounces go our way, we might have another Final Four or two the last few seasons, too. Things might not be coined 'great' right now, but anything less than really good is just someone trying to be difficult.
Did Coach K not communicate with Boogie after Tre decided to return? Did he give Boogie any reassurances, was he even aware Boogie might be having 2nd thoughts?
Hearing that just leads to more questions frankly.
Good news is, I think we found our next coach for Duke. The guy is an absolute genius.
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