Hold your fire, we will be back and the program will see future NCAA Tourneys and BIG success. We have work to do, but let's leave it to the professional to fix the offense and find a point guard. Dukies wanted to fire Coacn K who came from Army with losing record and struggled at first. K figured it out and so will Coach Collins.
Coach Collins and Cats will be fine..
- Thread starter Rebel_
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I agree. There's no doubt this last two years have been very disappointing after the 2016 run though. We had most of that team back last year and just couldn't get it together and this year there appeared to be enough talent, but just have severely under performed.
That being said, recruiting has improved, we have the new arena (and the new facility is coming), and I still believe in Coach Collins as the right guy. I feel confident in saying that too. The reality is that when a team can't hit shots, it makes everything look bad. I still am confident about the future of NU basketball. And I'll go out on a limb and say that even though next year looks on paper like it will be worse, I think we will be a better team. There's no doubt we'll miss Pardon and Law, but there's just something not right about this current team. We need an offseason to hit the reset button and start fresh. This season just spiraled out of control.
I admire your confidence. I don’t share it. Last place finish in year 6 is a real bad sign.
I hope several freshmen and sophs start next year or at least get a lot of playing time- more so than this year. I hope Gaines keeps getting better and starts too. I'm not sure what to think of the results this year. But gosh- I hope someone steps up to guide the offense as a verifiable point guard- as good or better than BMac.
CCC has shown he is a very good recruiter. Part of being a good HC is being able to build the team which means not just recruiting well but bringing in the right pieces at the right time. CCC is still working on that. I think he will get there but right now there are a couple holes. Sort of Aces and Spaces.
One of the problems we have always had is recruiting to true fast twitch type athlete. It shows up in FB and BB as well. In FB the guys always hardest for us to recruit were top DBs, top WRs and even top DEs. You know, the freakish athletes. Generally we have come up with workarounds since it is so much of a team game but that weakness still shows up against the super athlete teams like Mich and OSU
In BB, they tend to be PGs, slashing guards or the like. We have been good at getting wings for a long time and it would look like CCC has brought that recruiting up to another level. But these guys while being good athletes are not the freakish athletes that it takes for the next step. CCC has gotten us a taste in guys like Law and Gaines and while they are closer, they are still not the freaks. Brown sort of was but would not We are ready for the next step but can we get that Freakish athlete (or does the NU culture restrict our ability to get that slasher) or can CCC develop a work around to get the job done? BMac would seem to have been such a workaround . Good at what he did but no slasher.
Except then he could play the "first NU team to get to the NCAA" vision deal. Now what does he have to sell? Everyone but PSU has nice arenas and sexy practice digs. Everyone but PSU and NU have great fan bases. And at NU you have to play school. Not an easy coaching gig.
Much like Collins, Coach K recorded his first NCAA tournament appearance in his 4th season. However, in his 5th season, he went to the tournament again. In his 6th, he went 37-3 and went to the national championship game. The comparison isn't holding up too well.
And Coach K was at a school that had recently had a successful program. Didn't our own coach Foster take them to the NCAA Championship game in 1978? Tourney again in 1979 and 1980 (elite 8) just before Coach K took over? No where near the same comparison. In fact it could be argued that Foster did much of the heavy lifting. Not really sure why he left DUKE and went to SC
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I think the question of easier/harder than when he first arrived is a key one. When he first arrived, he was straight out of Duke, could use the family name/NBA connection and had the selling point of “be a part of the first tournament team” card. So he was recruiting on we’ll be Duke-like, with a connection to big things and you will be part of history.
Now he is recruiting from: we took the first step, you be a part of building a legacy, the university has built great new facilities and we play tough, basic basketball that will test your skill.
Which is easier, and does this seem accurate?
And for PG he can say "You can see how much we need one. You would have all these talented guys on the wings. Think what you could do."
I would take my chances having them look at wings of Nance, Kopp, Berhan, Gaines, Turner and maybe a healthy Falzon on that. There is plenty of talent to point to on the Wings. And while Turner and Falzon will not be here after next year, the rest will be and likely augmented with another pretty solid guy or two.
CCC is building a program and not just a team for a year. Have to look at the longer time period and he is learning about being a HC at NU and the unique challenges here on the job. While a better foundation has been established many of the issues that took down guys like Foster, Winter, Birdsong and others are still here
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So you mean it’s a ridiculous comparison that should never have been made in the first place? Glad we agree.
"We've done it once. We're ready to do it again with three top 100s. Now we want you to help us stabilize the foundation. We're building the next layer to make this an annually strong program."
It's pretty easy.
I wish it were higher on the pitiful meter, but it's where things are.
Do you remember who the second man to walk on the moon was?
Me either.
Getting to the second NCAA tournament isn't memorable.
You must be young enough to not remember the event. Buzz Aldrin came down the ladder after Neil Armstrong, and for most people old enough to remember the day, it is Michael Collins, the command module pilot, whose name is hard to remember.
Actually, I was at home sick watching on black-and-white TV. I am old enough to have no recollection! ;-)
Great post. Totally agree. Fitz called those types of playmakers "dudes." They remain elusive to NU in both sports, for a variety of reasons. But in basketball, they're vital to be a top-tier program.
Honestly the more I think about it, the more I'm losing faith in Collins being a top-notch recruiter. 2018 was supposed to be the banner class. Kopp looks OK but generally lost, Greer is similar, Nance got sick but was clearly very raw, and who knows about Young? Meanwhile, other offers like Bey, Horton-Tucker, Duke and others are already more productive at Villanova, Iowa State and Providence. Need some magic in the 2020 class.
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In some circles, bull crap is good. Collins=Fitz=Walker=yes, Barnett=Carmody. It is sometimes a slow process and success not always follows success. Give the guy a chance. If Northwestern is to be a leader in education and athletics, we must get over instanteous gratification.
But the pressure and the prestige of the program were hugely different. Duke already had Art Heyman and other great Iindividuals as well as NCAA experience. This is a tough job!
You really don't have a clue without looking at Google?
Not only has Aldrin made a pretty good living being the number two guy, he's somewhat known as a wacky ***** about it - the anti-Armstrong.
Eh. We all have different weaknesses.
Rivals doesn't have enough server space for me to start listing mine.
I will continue to watch and observe, I have no say in the length of his chances. But he has not shown great recruiter to date. A couple really good hits - we have seen others throughout the decades. A bunch of misses - seen those too.
But no better ratio. He has boggled a couple of situations. And he has poorly managed and constructed this roster.
Maybe things change. Maybe Nance and Kopp star. Maybe two more stars in next class. Maybe two more thereafter. And suddenly we have lots of true talent and depth. Maybe not.
But to date, one can no longer say he is a great recruiter. His body of work does not support the contention.
I think this depends on your definition of recruiting. Has CCC landed more 4 star recruits in his 6 years than we might have expected when he got hired? Yes. Have most of his recruits lived up to expectations? No. He hit a home run with his first class. I'll give him credit there. Since then, he has struck out far more often than not. That's either terrible luck, poor coaching/player development or poor recruiting. 2 of those 3 options don't reflect well on Collins.
Think you meed to remember what Law's father said when Vic committed. "There is no way he would have come to NU, unless there was a coaching change".
Yep.
While I appreciate the optimism coming from the OP, the Coach K comps have never made much sense (for obvious reasons).
Somebody should put this statement on the sticky threads along with the line in the OP, "we have work to do."
A bit of reasonable evaluation is appreciated as this discussion evolves.
It's just a matter of seeing what we have with CCC over the next 2-3 years.
I still hope he can be here for decades and take us to many NCAA Tournaments. My expectations are the same for CCC that they were 2 years ago.
Given that we already knew this year and next would be lean, I don't see why there's been so much short-term overreaction to every immediate loss. Some of our fans had unrealistic expectations for a team that has talent and plays hard defense but struggles mightily on the offensive end.
CCC deserves at least 2 more years to turn it around; if we don't have results by 2021, then we'll have to re-evaluate his position here. Obviously, he has to keep the team playing hard and keep recruiting from falling off.
I still hope he can be here for decades and take us to many NCAA Tournaments. My expectations are the same for CCC that they were 2 years ago.
Given that we already knew this year and next would be lean, I don't see why there's been so much short-term overreaction to every immediate loss. Some of our fans had unrealistic expectations for a team that has talent and plays hard defense but struggles mightily on the offensive end.
CCC deserves at least 2 more years to turn it around; if we don't have results by 2021, then we'll have to re-evaluate his position here. Obviously, he has to keep the team playing hard and keep recruiting from falling off.
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It's a tough conference. I think those couple early close losses zapped their confidence and here we are. If they win 1-2 of those then I think the attitude would have been different. Probably still not a tourney team, but better than where we are now.
Let's be honest the year we made the tourney lots of things went right for us- from the PASS to as I recall squeaking out a comeback win late vs a bad Rutgers team, etc
I like what I see in the last two recruiting classes so that is the real baseline for me- how can he recruit once he's established? I'm fine giving him until the current frosh are seniors to see where the program is.