I'm not sure how true it is but I heard that K said that they needed more depth. I know we had more than our fair share of injuries but that's hard to say when there are 9 mcdonald's all Americans on the team. Depth should not have been an issue.
Coach K questions depth?
- Thread starter LONMUNU
- Start date
He did I just saw the length. Kinda pisses me off even more he has guys that were more than capable all year and they sat. Then the day after to say "we need depth" look in the mirror! You're the coach and the only one who can change it. We had a NCAA team sitting on the bench all year
I didn't like the statement either. We had a barrel full of front court guys and it was his choice to stick with just Amile and occasionally Harry. We had plenty of guards ( though no PG).
It was a bad night for the program in general but hey we're only the best not perfect. There's a difference.
It was a bad night for the program in general but hey we're only the best not perfect. There's a difference.
If you don't develop depth then you have no depth. I just wonder how it made those guys feel when they heard that statement.
Wow!
He is the goat and not arguing but that had to make Big V, Javin, Bolden and White feel some type of way!
Especially coming from the head coach who didn't play them
He is the goat and not arguing but that had to make Big V, Javin, Bolden and White feel some type of way!
Especially coming from the head coach who didn't play them
Wow, did the all time winningest coach say he needs depth? Who recruited them, Elmer Fudd? If he said that, it's worse than Michael Jordan's ceiling/roof comment
So my rebutal would be;
Who gives out minutes? Who decides who plays?
This all goes back to Luke's comments earlier in the season," some have just not given into the whole concept of winning!"
The second would be, if minutes are earned in practice is he saying there were five guys who didn't play worth anything in practice? But you recruited them, saw their play styles, told them how you could help their games if they came to Duke.
This might be worse then the question asked to Semi, who has the bigger ego.
Who gives out minutes? Who decides who plays?
This all goes back to Luke's comments earlier in the season," some have just not given into the whole concept of winning!"
The second would be, if minutes are earned in practice is he saying there were five guys who didn't play worth anything in practice? But you recruited them, saw their play styles, told them how you could help their games if they came to Duke.
This might be worse then the question asked to Semi, who has the bigger ego.
When K made those comments I don't think he wasn't talking about himself too, he said "we need to be more physical and have more depth" and he alluded to injuries that had hurt depth. But I do think he was talking about himself as well. 8 was enough in 2015, unfortunately 7 was not enough in 2017 and he knows that. Everyone on that team needs to look in the mirror, coaches included.
In a year like last year, saying we needed more depth is completely reasonable. That's just plain out not the case this season. When given minutes, guys like Bolden and Vrank had positive moments. Did they also make mistakes? Obviously. They weren't given time to work through them though.
So next season, play 10 all regular season and who cares if we are a #7 seed. We'll still be placed in Charlotte bracket.
This was the interview with the sideline reporter after the game, right (in the back tunnel)?
Anyway, I saw it too. Most of these interviews are coach-speak, so it's hard to take them concrete. I'll say this, though....we should have been deeper, and I think K wasn't pointing at the players, but very much himself too. It was the season as a whole, IMO.
That said, with the stable of bigs we had, we might have benefitted more with a traditional lineup. A lot of the focus to how the game is played, not just at Duke, has been more offensive weapons who are multi-faceted....unfortunately, it's hurt us some defensively.
Anyway, I saw it too. Most of these interviews are coach-speak, so it's hard to take them concrete. I'll say this, though....we should have been deeper, and I think K wasn't pointing at the players, but very much himself too. It was the season as a whole, IMO.
That said, with the stable of bigs we had, we might have benefitted more with a traditional lineup. A lot of the focus to how the game is played, not just at Duke, has been more offensive weapons who are multi-faceted....unfortunately, it's hurt us some defensively.
Exactly!! People making all these excuses and we got all these top players getting beat by 2-3 stars
Think about it for a minute. With all the injuries and set backs there is some truth to what Coach K said. Just think if there were no injuries at all to Giles,Jeter, Bolden, Amile, Grayson, Javin and I believe Matt to some extent then we would have had lots of depth but we were not fully healthy until towards the last few games. If you take it in that light then it makes sense to me. OFC
To me, injuries are supposed to create depth. Guys are theoretically supposed to get minutes that they normally wouldn't. No ones 8, 9, or tenth best players are world beaters, it's why they aren't starting but that doesn't mean they can't contribute. I know I'm not in practices and I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but it's not just this season where depth has been an issue while burger boys ride the pine.
Some are excuses. Some are reality, too. All of us wanted a deeper team, and I'd venture to guess that K did, as well. The fact is, though, injuries, drama, no K for a month....those things happened. Excuses or not, this team wasn't really together until early February. People don't want to hear it (including me), but it's still the truth.
Yea I wish he would not have made that statement. I've already had a long enough day at work with the hole fans, now they are using that statement to throw salt in the damn cut. And there's not a lot to fire back with other than the we kicked y'alls azz twice this year,,, and that doesn't hold a lot of weight right now with the holes still dancing.
There certainly are valid excuses. This team had ten seasons worth of injuries slapped into one. All of the Allen talk was certainly a distraction. Giles was a shell of his former self. Heck most had written this team off at some point during the season and winning the ACC tournament got us all back on board lol. It's disappointing and it's ok that people are frustrated. Duke fans have a higher expectation of their teams and should.
Patience, grasshopper, patience. Ol'Roy will screw it up for 'em, and when he does the Heel fans will pounce on him harder than Gary-7 on a blown assist. And then going 1 or 2 games deeper than Duke doesn't cut it against losing 2 out of 3 to the LOM.
OFC
I agree, but I think this season is the first where the potential depth is maybe what we would call....glaring.
I'll give Chase a pass as it does appear he was hurt and Duke (and Chase) decided to hold back. Marques really gave us nothing. He didn't show much of anything in the time he did get, but he still came in with high accolades. Javin just never punched through, but his length and athleticism makes us wonder if he was given the best opportunity. With Vrank, I just liked the raw size. He's not very skilled (yet), but I thought he was much more serviceable than Bolden in the little time he had. Anyway, that's what makes me wonder more about this season.
To my point about other seasons, it just depends how you look at it. We know Gbinije went on to a nice career at Syracuse, but the fact still remains that it wasn't until his fourth season in college that he truly made an impact. With Semi, he came to Duke incredibly raw from and X's and O's standpoint, and we know that K is a bit of a practitioner....Semi just couldn't get through. We talk about some of (young) guys being lost defensively, well, that was Semi on the other end.
I guess my point is that this season, for the first time (and without knowing none of the ins and outs) I, too, fought the depth thing in my mind all season. I feel we should have been deeper. I don't know that, but I'm lying if I didn't think we should have been.
Right! You have to put all of that into context. Of course non Duke fans aren't going to be that objective and most Duke fans aren't either, but it wasn't like the season ran with no distractions. Sure, most teams face distractions, but not at the same time like this team did. Again, we could have folded and went to the NIT or not make any Tournament at all. Damn near won 30 games with no true PG, no head coach for a month and the strongest conference schedule this season along with multiple injuries and The Grayson Allen circus.
I'll concede the point guard concern, Thornton can't play if he's not here, but when you look on the bench and see 3 guys over 6-9 and all 3 weigh 220 or more, and you're getting your butts handed to you on boards, that's frustrating to see. I would like to see a little more pt out of bigs early on in year, sometimes mixing lineup so that the bench is better prepared as season rolls along. Like some other people have mentioned, other than 2015, Duke has had some struggles in the tournament. I say that some of these kids could be a little bit more productive if they saw some minutes here and there.
We give a lot of grief to Ol' Roy but he does give his guys PT and Luke Maye has turned into a solid contributor, no denying.
I totally get the "earn your PT in practice" - but, still, work those guys hard in practice. Talk to them. Get through to them. If you can win a kid over in recruitment you gotta be able to get him on board somewhat. Don't ask a kid to come to Duke if he doesn't want to buy into the team concept and working his butt off (and if he doesn't seem to show a work ethic in high school). It almost seems as if K does not have as strong a one-on-one relationship with these guys. But, there's only 15 kids. Take the time to spend 15 minutes with each kid each week or two. Get them motivated. Let them know you have their best interest at heart and you believe in them.
But, even at that, give them PT early and mid-year. Even if they don't earn a starting spot or screw up - let it happen. At least they are on the court and if they get their jockstrap handed to them for 10 minutes in a game 3-4 times - well, that's a nice piece of humble pie. At least they won't be sulking on the bench, thinking, "I'm never given a chance in a game." And, maybe that will make them work harder.
A corollary issue I have with K is that his leash is so incredibly short even in January. One kid gets to make a ton of mistakes and stays on the court (e.g., Frank, or Tatum), another makes one error in 30 seconds and he's back on the pine the rest of the game. There's just no way a kid can get confidence that way. I love K but I think his achilles heel is he sometimes misses the psychology of the kid. Ironic because he is masterful with the psychology of Olympians.
And, I think it's appropriate to be critical of coach K at times. Everyone has weaknesses and makes mistakes. K is a stubborn Chicago kid. Bobby Knight at one time was the best B-Ball coach in America but he made plenty of mistakes with players - and not just due to his personal behavior issues. It happens.
But, even at that, give them PT early and mid-year. Even if they don't earn a starting spot or screw up - let it happen. At least they are on the court and if they get their jockstrap handed to them for 10 minutes in a game 3-4 times - well, that's a nice piece of humble pie. At least they won't be sulking on the bench, thinking, "I'm never given a chance in a game." And, maybe that will make them work harder.
A corollary issue I have with K is that his leash is so incredibly short even in January. One kid gets to make a ton of mistakes and stays on the court (e.g., Frank, or Tatum), another makes one error in 30 seconds and he's back on the pine the rest of the game. There's just no way a kid can get confidence that way. I love K but I think his achilles heel is he sometimes misses the psychology of the kid. Ironic because he is masterful with the psychology of Olympians.
And, I think it's appropriate to be critical of coach K at times. Everyone has weaknesses and makes mistakes. K is a stubborn Chicago kid. Bobby Knight at one time was the best B-Ball coach in America but he made plenty of mistakes with players - and not just due to his personal behavior issues. It happens.
I didn't take it as "we couldn't get any bench production". I think he meant it more along the lines of "we didn't have the depth we needed to win".
We can talk about if we actually did have that depth or not, but I don't think K meant it the way some are portraying it. None of those guys on the bench were ready to play last night. That goes on the players and the coaches. Pretty sure K knows that. He didn't get where he is thinking he is mistake free.
We can talk about if we actually did have that depth or not, but I don't think K meant it the way some are portraying it. None of those guys on the bench were ready to play last night. That goes on the players and the coaches. Pretty sure K knows that. He didn't get where he is thinking he is mistake free.
It is too easy to criticize without having knowledge of why choices are made by the coaching staff.
K plays to win every game to afford his teams the best chance at a high seed. I've thought for years that we've under under-utilized our bench but after 25 years or so...if I haven't learned to accept that's Ks approach...then I'm the ignorant one. It has, to some degree, lead to me enjoying success in every college basketball season I've watched during those years.
K isn't perfect and for the time we all invest...we can certainly criticize (even without the facts)...but I have learned to enjoy this continued run (even with one and dones that have sucked out a little enjoyment) because in the not to distant future we will be begging for problems like these.
K plays to win every game to afford his teams the best chance at a high seed. I've thought for years that we've under under-utilized our bench but after 25 years or so...if I haven't learned to accept that's Ks approach...then I'm the ignorant one. It has, to some degree, lead to me enjoying success in every college basketball season I've watched during those years.
K isn't perfect and for the time we all invest...we can certainly criticize (even without the facts)...but I have learned to enjoy this continued run (even with one and dones that have sucked out a little enjoyment) because in the not to distant future we will be begging for problems like these.
I've been saying all year Coach K was the reason for this year being the way it is. Outside of injuries he did not manage this team well at all. This team was built to play traditionally but he is so impatient with bigs that he panicked and went to the small ball lineup. It's cute and all to have former players as coaches but it's about time to get a big man. This is exactly why I pray Knox doesn't come to Duke. It'll be the same thing next year. Coach K needs to be in Duval call log, dm, mentions, voicemail, shid everywhere. I'm not sure we've ever needed a player so bad
Yes...the depth or lack thereof is perplexing. Especially so, because it seems there have been several years where K advertises it in the pre-season, I can only assume based on what he's seen in scrimmages and in practice, only to restrict rotations drastically a quarter into the season.
I'm not questioning why more guys don't end up playing necessarily but rather why the impression of them changes so quickly. It's easy to observe how quickly certain guys get yanked after making mistakes as well as to speculate on how the early collar might affect their confidence in subsequent, sporadic appearances.
I'm not even sure it's as simple as playing time but also an issue of developing players. I think the OAD's pose special problems due to having potentially conflicted agendas as well
as inherently limited commitments to their respective schools but I also think we've had several guys whose growth didn't necessarily feel proportional to their recruiting ranking.
I still like Duke being attractive to oad's but I also think they impose special burdens on schools bringing them in en masse to include 1-2 guys each class talented but humble enough to be program guys and stick it out until it's their time. The danger for some of these kids, as they get recurrently recruited over, is that day never arrives and so maybe going to a school that frequently attracts oads is simply less attractive.
Regardless, all the big school fan bases want something another has. Here in Jayhawk country, there are a lot of KU fans who lament they don't bring in more elite guys and that they don't have quite the same allure of a UK or Duke, yet the flip side is that they build more continuity there. Self attracts a lot of coachable kids, sprinkles in the oad guys, and so there's a lot better opportunity for substantial chemistry and accountability between players.
I don't think there's one answer or method. Some years I think we'll strike gold and others be left...cold. I really liked the suggestion of both 2010 and 2015 being aberrations. I don't necessarily think either roster is a failsafe guidepost for winning titles. The common thread for both was having competitive, cohesive players who knew how to make their own breaks and oozed self-confidence.
This bunch just never could get there.
Yep, then during the season, it became clear Winslow was gone and during the tournament Jones had no choice.
Jones had no choice why? If he woulda come back he would of scored 20+ a game and went in the lotto that years draft was weak!
That's assuming no injuries, no distractions, etc. Also, he would have been the focal point of other team's defenses, unlike in '15. You leave when your stock is at its highest, especially if it's your dream to play in the NBA. Tomorrow is never promised. Sure, it would have made Duke and the coaching staff feel better, but you never want to have a reputation of holding a kid back. Look at UNC and their struggles with OADs.
Also, Jones is the latest example of a kid, not predicted to be a one and done and developed throughout the year. What a great selling point to future players.
I think Grayson should have left after his freshman year but especially his sophomore year. He was getting first round consideration on the strength of his performance at the Final Four and he was an All-American.
Last edited:
Yes, he was, going into the season. I think maybe one mock draft had all 3 in the lottery, during the summer of '14.
This is infuriating to me....I don't ever want to hear K speak of depth...he chooses to recruit like this which is fine...it leaves us perilously thin when everyone leaves....he doesn't play or develop the bench and that's on him and the staff...
If he wants depth...then change...
If he wants depth...then change...
Hey coaches have their prime just like players ..not saying he's lost it but ..I can remember not long ago I never questioned k!! Hell even when we won the ship 2 years ago I was questioning him...Goat for sure and love him to death but a lot of this falls on him sadly ..hate to say it ..but it does ...it ok with me though. Nobody's perfect ..well except Gino lmao..we've been spoiled a bit ..I'm confident before he hangs it up though we're going to get 1 more at least ..
I agree. How could Coach K question depth?!! Don't get me wrong I love Coach K but Duke had plenty of depth this year that wasn't utilized.
I got a ? When do you think we will get a new stadium ..not saying anything is wrong with Cameron i love it and hope we play there forever but I know that's not going to happen ...I was just thinking about it today..how old is Cameron anyway? ..please nobody take this the wrong way ..I'm just curious