Coach K questions depth?

[AlanInNJ]

Anyway, that's what makes me wonder more about this season.

As fans we aren't entitled to know the whole story, and I don't know, maybe it's better that way. Clearly this is how K plays everything....close to the vest, but I am sure I am not alone in wondering what were the real issues that he saw that limited the rotation. What really happened behind the scenes? I suspect it was more than injuries.

With that said, when is the last year that K didn't have a short rotation by March? It seems every year we question it at some point. "Why the heck isn't so and so getting more burn?" I do think it's partly the old dog, new tricks scenario. He's won a few games in his day.

Alan

 

[gottagonow]

I believe and hope that Coach K would tell us that this was not his best season as the Duke coach. There's no way he could look at what we had for potential, regardless of the injuries and tell us he even came close to developing this team. We had exciting and memorable games and won close to 30 games again but I know K was not satisfied.

 

[hart2chesson]

I believe and hope that Coach K would tell us that this was not his best season as the Duke coach. There's no way he could look at what we had for potential, regardless of the injuries and tell us he even came close to developing this team. We had exciting and memorable games and won close to 30 games again but I know K was not satisfied.

With ya on this gotta!! Fell far short of potential...

OFC

 

[pisgah101]

Nobody's bigger than the program right?

 

[Mac9192]

I think everyone associated with Duke basketball is stunned with 2016-17 season. I went back and read article on Dukes year and found on November 7th, before he was injured, Bolden at practice was part of starting lineup, and in his 1st game against Maine, had 7 points and 5 rebounds. I don't know what happened to him, but he went from a starter in November to seldom used. We know what happened to Allen and Giles, but Bolden being a nonfactor is baffling. I'm frustrated with lack of bench, but I wonder what this team could have been had those 3 been healthy from the start. My opinion is Kennard would have been the best 6th man in the country. To me this team may be best to never win it all

 

[lkc1021]

I'm not sure how true it is but I heard that K said that they needed more depth. I know we had more than our fair share of injuries but that's hard to say when there are 9 mcdonald's all Americans on the team. Depth should not have been an issue.

Depth is only good if you play them.

 

[jamsession3]

I think everyone associated with Duke basketball is stunned with 2016-17 season. I went back and read article on Dukes year and found on November 7th, before he was injured, Bolden at practice was part of starting lineup, and in his 1st game against Maine, had 7 points and 5 rebounds. I don't know what happened to him, but he went from a starter in November to seldom used. We know what happened to Allen and Giles, but Bolden being a nonfactor is baffling. I'm frustrated with lack of bench, but I wonder what this team could have been had those 3 been healthy from the start. My opinion is Kennard would have been the best 6th man in the country. To me this team may be best to never win it all

I wonder how many fans would really take note to what you have said! He was a starter? Kennard was forced into the starting line up. Idealistically, Frank, Grayson, Tatum, Jefferson and Bolden should have been the starting line up with Kennard, Matt and Harry being the bench.

 

[sheyduke]

let's say Bolden, Tatum and Giles never get hurt.
Giles comes back to form.
Who would have started Giles or Bolden?
Let's say Giles with Amile at the Four. Does Bolden still produce?
Jackson got hurt after Kansas but yet Jeter played well even against KU. Yet Jeter lost his starting spot and Jackson went back to the bench. For a stretch Jackson couldn't stay on the court in the first half.
No one can say for sure what this team would have looked like because in my opinion preseason scrimmages just allowed Bolden to play like he did in high school being the tallest player on the court.
No one really knows

 

[Mac9192]

I wonder how many fans would really take note to what you have said! He was a starter? Kennard was forced into the starting line up. Idealistically, Frank, Grayson, Tatum, Jefferson and Bolden should have been the starting line up with Kennard, Matt and Harry being the bench.

I was surprised when I read that about Bolden, but my opinion is that yes Kennard would have come off bench. This team, looking back, was doomed and I think it was crazy that they won 4 in a row in ACC tournament, but ACC is officiated differently than NCAA, and because of that our thin rotation took a beating. SC rattled Kennard and Jackson and 3 guys fouled out

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

I'm honestly baffled how K seems to describe himself as not responsible for us having an entire lineup of 4* - 5* players nailed to our bench. It's disengenuous to blame this year's 1.5 player bench on injuries - it's always the same thing.

I've found it laughable the rationale to play starters 38 minutes in November blowouts so that they know how to play exhausted. Seriously? It's like a bizzarro world when comments like that are accepted as "K being K."

I'm beginning to wonder if the senior execs in the Athletic Department are going to be empowered to discuss with K how he's managing the team. Hopefully they're able/willing to do that, and hopefully K is receptive to identifying his blind spots / bad habits so these nearly annual flame outs are left in the past.

I also think the Staff and Administration have some serious damage control to do with our current players and their families, especially after this inane comment from K. The risk of losing 2+ guys to transfer / D-league is very real and could eviscerate next year's team.

 

[dukiejay]

Where did K say he wasn't partly responsible?

 

[hart2chesson]

I think everyone associated with Duke basketball is stunned with 2016-17 season. I went back and read article on Dukes year and found on November 7th, before he was injured, Bolden at practice was part of starting lineup, and in his 1st game against Maine, had 7 points and 5 rebounds. I don't know what happened to him, but he went from a starter in November to seldom used. We know what happened to Allen and Giles, but Bolden being a nonfactor is baffling. I'm frustrated with lack of bench, but I wonder what this team could have been had those 3 been healthy from the start. My opinion is Kennard would have been the best 6th man in the country. To me this team may be best to never win it all

Agree Mac, thats what makes the early exit almost surreal in some respects....

OFC

 

[Mpm277]

It seems the bigs aren't given as much leeway for mistakes in games as guards. If Bolden made a mistake, he was immediately yanked out - this led to Bolden never playing because he almost always made a mistake as soon as he entered the game. Giles often received the same treatment, but at least got to sub back in after a few minutes because *someone* had to give Amile a break. You have to wonder how only playing random, spotty minutes here and there can ever allow you to feel comfortable in a game setting when you're not used to playing in the most hostile environment you've ever played in, against the best competition you've played against, etc., and when you know that your first mistake leads you to a seat back on the bench.

There has been discussion concerning Duke and bigs for years now. It was nice to see how Duke used and played through Okafor, but Okafor was really a special case - it's very uncommon to have a freshman big come in with that much skill and talent from day one. If I was a top recruit and a big, I can't see why I'd chose Duke if I'm being recruited by some other blue bloods.

 

[timo0402]

Where did K say he wasn't partly responsible?

He didn't. Funny we don't see this guy in the last five games but shows up now. Classic.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Kennard was just wierd imo ..he hasn't looked like that all year it's almost like he threw the game shaving points or something lol...joking !!! It was just wierd man ...I know sc was denying hard and forcing Jackson to make plays but idk ...just makes you wonder why teams haven't done that one time this year until now ...great gameplan by SC we still got hosed though..

 

[dukiejay]

Everyone has probably seen this by now because it's literally gone viral....if you haven't it's worth the watch. I'm not implying this is what plagued this years Duke team, but I think it's important we step back and admit we really don't know what was going on with our team behind closed doors.

 

[timo0402]

Everyone has probably seen this by now because it's literally gone viral....if you haven't it's worth the watch. I'm not implying this is what plagued this years Duke team, but I think it's important we step back and admit we really don't know what was going on with our team behind closed doors.

I watched this last night and while I can't stand Gino, he is spot on in every single facet of his statements.

 

[Mac9192]

I watched this last night and while I can't stand Gino, he is spot on in every single facet of his statements.

Gino is one of the best coaches out there, men or ladies, and that video shows why

 

[dukiejay]

I watched this last night and while I can't stand Gino, he is spot on in every single facet of his statements.

I'm not a fan, either....but I agree, spot on.

 

[wswartz34]

If you recall the starting lineup for the GT game was Grayson, Luke, Tatum, Amile and HG. We won by 30 points. I thought that was it. The meshing point and the lineup for the rest of the season.

Amile gets hurt the next game, Jayson moves to the 4 and Harry to the 5. We get worked the next couple of games. Amile comes back (not 100% either), coach K keeps Tatum at the 4 and the rotation effectively becomes 7.

If Amile doesn't get hurt and that lineup remains, Bolden HAS to get burn. There is no other backup.

Turning point in the season was Amile's injury.

EDIT: Actually I think most of this went down when Coach was out with surgery. Makes it even more interesting IMO.

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

He didn't. Funny we don't see this guy in the last five games but shows up now. Classic.

Yeah, I only really am motivated to post when we're struggling, fair enough. This season was - to me at least - a disaster, and I haven't seen Coach K take even a modicum of responsibility. The day he takes a large share of the blame for how this season unfolded, I'll gladly come back and express my appreciation. And if you don't think he should take responsibility, just put me on ignore because you and I don't see eye-to-eye, and there's no sense being annoyed by another poster when you can just ignore them.

Sorry for being excessively negative, very fair point.

p.s. I didn't post during our ACC tourney win but I assure you, my wife and I were both on Cloud 9 for a week.

 

[dukiejay]

Coach K does take the blame. He doesn't need to tell me that, though.

 

[pisgah101]

That was great thanks for sharing

 

[Liftee]

This season wasn't a disaster. We beat UNC 2 out of 3 times while they were a top 5 team. We won the ACC tournament in a way no team has done.

Sure there were flaws with the team and sure we would liked to have seen more PT from the bench, but we don't see what goes on in practice. If a guy isn't working hard in practice what kind of message does it send to play him in games anyway? I don't want our coach to be one of those guys who does that.

I questioned the Tatum-at-the-4 strategy all year but he had a really productive season and a lot of times the opponent had to adapt to what Duke was doing and go small.

If we hadn't played a 7th seed in their backyard with UNC shamelessly rooting for Duke to lose, and hadn't played a team with the style that is most problematic for Duke, then this thread wouldn't exist. It was a perfect storm.

 

[Mpm277]

I'm not a fan, either....but I agree, spot on.

How come you all aren't fans of Gino? I don't know much about him, really; just curious.

 

[pisgah101]

How come you all aren't fans of Gino? I don't know much about him, really; just curious.

I can't stand him for the way he treated Pat Summitt. He was just a flat out a$$ to her constantly

 

[dukiejay]

How come you all aren't fans of Gino? I don't know much about him, really; just curious.

There's just a certain arrogance that comes across to me. But I also know that's probably a big reason some people don't like K, either. As a fan of Duke and K I'll readily admit to biases.

 

[Mac9192]

How come you all aren't fans of Gino? I don't know much about him, really; just curious.

I like Gino. I don't know anything about him, but I admire the heck out of what he's done. He's absolutely dominating his sport in a way not ever seen. He wins. Period. That's why people don't like him. He may be the best coach in any sport. I don't care that he coaches girls. Every good coach comes off as maybe arrogant.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

*DISASTER*

We successfully won 1 of 3 trophies we set out for before the season. We weren't even booted in the 1st Round of the NCAA. In 5 years we will remember 2 outta 3 over UNC and 4 ACC Tourney wins in 4 days. Losing in the 2nd Round to SC will be glossed over

 

[Kingbluedevil]

I remember back when Coach K first came to Duke the defense was similar to what South Carolina had. They would play so physical and foul so much that Billy Packer would say the refs will quit calling fouls after a while. He was right and we need to get back to some Billy King, wojo, Tommy Amaker in your face defense. I hope we keep recruiting the best players but if they don't hustle back on defense put them on the bench like he use to. I'm out

 

[DukeDenver]

I'm fine with how we approached the season, we just need better facilitators. It was a team of scorers plus Amile and Matt. Our 9 losses were due to personnel issues. We had too many stars and not enough compatible pieces. Our four guards were great as our 2 and 3. Tatum was a perfect 4. Amile, when healthy, a great 5. Harry and adequate backup at 5. We had no way to stretch that 7 into a cohesive unit game after game without a PG and when we needed consistent defense. It just didn't work.

 

[Tim1515]

This is an honest question because I don't have time to look it up. Games that have been competitive in the tournament...for the 16 teams remaining...how deep has their bench been?

 

[sheyduke]

I don't know but KU started playing their center last game who really gave them good minutes and U.K. is going to their bench often UNC well we know Roy uses them all not sure about Oregon or UCLA.

 

[Tim1515]

Took a quick look and Kansas played 7 guys over 5 minutes in beating MSU. MSU played 8 over 5 minutes.

That was a game won by 20.

Duke played 7

 

[Tim1515]

UCLA - 8
UNC - 8

Now some other teams saw another player get 5 minutes...maybe a player or 2 got a minute or two.

So should I assume everyone would be happy about depth if Bolden played 5 minutes?

 

[timo0402]

UCLA - 8
UNC - 8

Now some other teams saw another player get 5 minutes...maybe a player or 2 got a minute or two.

So should I assume everyone would be happy about depth if Bolden played 5 minutes?

Bingo. Even in the NBA the benches get shortened in the post season. I get the obvious rebuttals that during the regular season they should play more but honestly if you look at most teams they are rarely trotting out 9-10 guys a night.

 

[chov1125]

I remember back when Coach K first came to Duke the defense was similar to what South Carolina had. They would play so physical and foul so much that Billy Packer would say the refs will quit calling fouls after a while. He was right and we need to get back to some Billy King, wojo, Tommy Amaker in your face defense. I hope we keep recruiting the best players but if they don't hustle back on defense put them on the bench like he use to. I'm out

They can all be stars as long as they are compatible. Tyus Justise Jahlil all college stars very compatible. This roster, handful of offensive stars zero compatibility.

 

[timo0402]

They can all be stars as long as they are compatible. Tyus Justise Jahlil all college stars very compatible. This roster, handful of offensive stars zero compatibility.

I wouldn't say they had zero compatability. That 2015 team, heck no team in Ks 30+ years has dealt with the things this team had too. I mean we are barely a week removed from this team running four games in four nights.