apples and oranges.
There is zero comparison between UK football and UK basketball on every single level.
Coach Stoops was right
- Thread starter willievic
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apples and oranges.
There is zero comparison between UK football and UK basketball on every single level.
Ever hear of BBN? Cal gets how we are as fans. Stoops doesn't. One is successful. One isn't.
Some of us have been saying the same thing for some time. If you are part of the group that wants Stoops gone, you still should support the players. They are busting their collective butts on the field.
Obviously we all have the right to do or say what we want and to some extent that is what this message board is about and what makes sports fun to follow.
I used to be one of the worst to go off on a coach or player when they didn't do what I wanted and still do it by instinct but somewhere along the line I slowly started realizing how silly that was for me as a grown man to do that.
We get caught up in it and act like they are only there to satisfy our need to experience the joy of victory vicariously through them and take it personally when we are kept from doing that and OUR pride gets hurt because they dropped a ball or missed a tackle.
I finally figured out that it's not all about me and they really aren't messing up and losing games just to ruin my day. They are working their tales of (in most cases) and sometimes just arent' good enough to get it done.
So I don't want to throw cold water on what we do here but there is balance between throwing yourself in to the fandom and enjoying all that comes with that and being an adult too and realizing being a fan requires supporting the guys that are trying to bring you some pride and joy too. This goes for the coaches too. Stoops says some things he shouldn't and needs to grow some thicker skin and stop taking every criticism so seriously himself, but behind all of that I think he's trying his tail off too make this work and appreciates the chance we gave him to do it.
I used to be one of the worst to go off on a coach or player when they didn't do what I wanted and still do it by instinct but somewhere along the line I slowly started realizing how silly that was for me as a grown man to do that.
We get caught up in it and act like they are only there to satisfy our need to experience the joy of victory vicariously through them and take it personally when we are kept from doing that and OUR pride gets hurt because they dropped a ball or missed a tackle.
I finally figured out that it's not all about me and they really aren't messing up and losing games just to ruin my day. They are working their tales of (in most cases) and sometimes just arent' good enough to get it done.
So I don't want to throw cold water on what we do here but there is balance between throwing yourself in to the fandom and enjoying all that comes with that and being an adult too and realizing being a fan requires supporting the guys that are trying to bring you some pride and joy too. This goes for the coaches too. Stoops says some things he shouldn't and needs to grow some thicker skin and stop taking every criticism so seriously himself, but behind all of that I think he's trying his tail off too make this work and appreciates the chance we gave him to do it.
I agree with the latter part of your post. The first part of it, however, itsnot true.
Nobody on here is allowed to call anybody an idiot, or any other name for that matter. I understand your point of saying this, but wanted to clarify that it's simply not allowed.
But again, the latter part of your post was spot on.
And by the way, parents DO read these boards.... and that's an absolute, 100% fact. They don't all post, but they're reading......
If Stoops wants to keep his players from a toxic environment, ban them from social media (and strongly suggest parents should give it up too)
what is *not* going to happen is changing the comments and actions of some fans posting anonymously on the internet by trying to fan shame them.
if anything its only going to make them dig in further. They'll still be posting when Stoops is gone or that player graduates, transfers , whatever.
what is *not* going to happen is changing the comments and actions of some fans posting anonymously on the internet by trying to fan shame them.
if anything its only going to make them dig in further. They'll still be posting when Stoops is gone or that player graduates, transfers , whatever.
I would assume that Stoops brother is in a more "toxic" environment and he has a NC. It's just part of the job. If you pay me 3.5 million a year you can criticize all you want. I promise I wouldn't come out a complain about anything. Would probably apologize for the sub par product that is on the field.
I do not talk about the the players its the coaches who are making big bucks that do not show the players how to win.
then we have had & will likely continue to have the exact ****** program we deserve
1. If I was a player I wouldnt get on message boards or social media. I'm 33 and dont have Facebook or Twitter etc before you assume I'm from an older generation.
2. My personality is such that I believe I'm the best at my job. I will do whatever I have to in order to stay top dog. If someone doesnt like how I go about it either show me how to do it better or get the eff out of my way.
The question was would I come here? I have never given a damn what others think of me, I know what I'm capable of at work. Applying that to football I'd be the same, I sure was playing baseball. I could not care less if fans liked me. If they do great, it'd be awesome to be BMOC. If they don't it makes zero difference as working towards the NFL or my degree would be my priority.
That's my thought process. Not everyone thinks alike so for others their considerations are totally different.
2. My personality is such that I believe I'm the best at my job. I will do whatever I have to in order to stay top dog. If someone doesnt like how I go about it either show me how to do it better or get the eff out of my way.
The question was would I come here? I have never given a damn what others think of me, I know what I'm capable of at work. Applying that to football I'd be the same, I sure was playing baseball. I could not care less if fans liked me. If they do great, it'd be awesome to be BMOC. If they don't it makes zero difference as working towards the NFL or my degree would be my priority.
That's my thought process. Not everyone thinks alike so for others their considerations are totally different.
Yes. every July the US Navy writes me an eval. And how bad or how good I'm doing. I work in medicine as well. So every month I get a customer service report and my patients tell me how good and how bad I'm doing. If I do bad. People tell me. If I do good. People also tell me.
Seriously? Present or past? As to this current team, if you don't see improvement in Edwards, Jones, Allen, Miggins, Pringle, Ware, Baity, and Bell, I have to believe you are not looking.
Forrest went from WR to bad LBer athlete to drafted LBer. Lewis went from a mess to draftable DT. Z got dramatically better in year 2. CJ did not have technique or understand defense, but he ended up being a force and getting a look in the NFL. Toth has improved. Meadows has improved. This is development.
The toxicity that he feels is an implication of the job Stoops is doing. It is a direct result of the performances he gets from his team. No embarrassing losses, no terrible coaching decisions, no toxicity in your program. See how that works?
What do you do when patients tell you, you suck *** at your job? Do you say oh that's probably Martha, she's non compliant or crazy anyway. Or do you say oh Since Martha is upset I should completely just let her tell me how to practice medicine (or whatever it is you do), with all her education from never practicing she probably knows best. Did you hear dr Bob down the street doesn't have this problem, always satisfied patients. Medicine just isn't for you.
I work in healthcare and have also worked in jobs that provide services. Many people ***** and moan regardless. I just laugh with colleagues about them. Of course I don't contact them and tell them they are morons, because they really aren't worth my time. Because you can't reason with unreasonable.
I'm not happy with the football team, but sans the S.Miss game, we are pretty much where I expected the team to be, based on what they were last year, plus injury, attrition, and lack of overall depth.
Coach Stoops you are not going to win attacking the fans. You need to ignore your critics and those of your players and produce on the field
We will judge you by that product . If you get into a fight with us it will not end well
We will judge you by that product . If you get into a fight with us it will not end well
How does asking you to stay positive equate to an attack? Some of you act like he questioned the legitimacy of your birth and your mother's career choice.
Count me as ignorant or blind then.
i think it was the Bama game we had at least three picks if someone would just turn around and look for the ball. That hints at lack of development.
Think in the Vandy game had one DB run completely around his man allowing the receiver to make a catch. It wasn't that he wasn't there, he was there and then some.
Plus, when you have the HC say the reason why the defense couldn't stop anyone is because they were lined up wrong ... What's that?
They look more like a team and more like players than they did the previous week, so I guess they have developed but we're you satisfied with how the players looked like week one, two, three? So you are saying they were properly prepared when they took the field at the start of the season?
Toxic no longer means slandering players.
Toxic on this board is now anyone not 100% onboard with CMS.
Everyone of these threads are very uninformed.
If you want to start a thread about people slandering players on their social media accounts then say that.
Stop saying "on here".
Critiquing a player's performance is ok, even if your opinion is negative.
Criticizing a coach is ok.
Not everyone is going to have the same opinion of the direction of this team.
Some folks see a major turnaround with the wins and the effort at Bama.
Others see the wins against terrible teams and say that Bama beat us by 4 TDs while treating us like a glorified scrimmage with some of their play calling.
The majority of us are in a wait and see mode. Improvements seem to have been made but the competition was weak. We will know the next two weeks where we stand.
Toxic on this board is now anyone not 100% onboard with CMS.
Everyone of these threads are very uninformed.
If you want to start a thread about people slandering players on their social media accounts then say that.
Stop saying "on here".
Critiquing a player's performance is ok, even if your opinion is negative.
Criticizing a coach is ok.
Not everyone is going to have the same opinion of the direction of this team.
Some folks see a major turnaround with the wins and the effort at Bama.
Others see the wins against terrible teams and say that Bama beat us by 4 TDs while treating us like a glorified scrimmage with some of their play calling.
The majority of us are in a wait and see mode. Improvements seem to have been made but the competition was weak. We will know the next two weeks where we stand.
I guess I realize that we have a ton of sophs and new players at almost every spot on defense. While I was not happy with the first two games, I know that dissatisfaction is not synonymous with lack of player development. I know the difference. Especially when I can see player development.
the defense held Bama to 27 points
so I'm gonna count you among the ignorant & blind, k thx
To be honest these past couple of games were by far the only ones that I have actually seen improvement by individuals.
Many kids have looked much better.
@JHB4UK I have a hard time taking the Bama game serious when watching their play calling and personnel moves.
Their game vs Arkansas was totally different. However, they are still Bama with excellent players and coaches.
Many kids have looked much better.
@JHB4UK I have a hard time taking the Bama game serious when watching their play calling and personnel moves.
Their game vs Arkansas was totally different. However, they are still Bama with excellent players and coaches.
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Brian, I agree with you plenty, but I disagree here. "everyone" is not uninformed. I am still hoping CMS can turn this around because in 60 years of supporting this team I've learned that constant change doesn't work. Constant change of coordinators has slowed CMS in my opinion. Sure, some of it may be his fault, but, I don't think firing him and bringing in a new group will help. No one has recruited like him here. I realize that your opinion is that a better coach with his players might do better next year, but I'm afraid that the "better" coach can't recruit at UK like he has. I don't mind, having waited this long, to give him a little time. I've said it many times I don't have a problem with criticism. I have a problem with a few things:
1. Anyone that contacts a player or his family through any method.
2. Anyone that says "if you think this......then........"
3. Anyone that says I hope they lose so that everyone quits attending and we can get to MB.
If you support UK, you support this team. We don't have to agree that this coaching staff is what we need, but anyone that doesn't cheer for UK to win every game is not a UK fan.
I've been constantly criticized for talking bad about our fans. I stand by everything I've said about our fans. Most of them are great, but there are plenty, probably mostly on this board (which are the fanatics of fans), that are too high when it is good and too low when it is bad.
As a graduate and long time season ticket holder and fan, I am often embarrassed by our fans. I am often amazed at how great our fans are. I comment both ways. Some people just need to realize that being a fan doesn't just mean complaining because we didn't do as well as they wanted. Just because we hope CMS succeeds, doesn't mean we are satisfied with 5 or 6 wins. We might think that he gives our best chance in the future of achieving an SEC East title over starting over with an entirely new staff.
I totally respect your opinions here.
I'd prefer he turn it around as well.
The question is, other than an uptick in recruiting, what makes you think CMS is a high caliber coach?
2 wins vs terrible SEC teams?
The emergence of some kids finally showing some improvement the last few games?
It has been proven several times that the theory U.K. fires coaches too often is false.
We still have a path to 6 wins and a bowl which was my goal this season.
If we can do it great. If not, we may need to evaluate where we are after 4 seasons.
Teams like MSU and USCjr won't be down every year. CMS has had the luxury of the SEC East being worse in the last 4 years than any other time.
MSU and Missouri will tell us where we are amongst the "down" teams. I can't wait until we don't have to rely on teams being down in order to win games.
You're right. The basketball board is way worse on individual players and sometimes Cal after a loss (and often a win) than the football board is. And yet Cal still embraces the passion and sales it.
Passion isn't just reserved for praise. Passionate fan bases also bring the heat when things are bad. The alternative is not caring and being Kansas football. Then there isn't even something to build on. Stoops should sale it as a sleeping giant passionate fan base that's waiting on a winner. A fan base that is second to nobody in size and travels better than anybody. Point to how crazy the following is for basketball and parallel it to the football team stating how that's there waiting on the product to support religiously.
Look at 2007 before we fell apart the back half of the season. People were ecstatic about football and that gameday was one of the best ever.
You absolutely completely missed my point. I'll try again though because I'm dumb like that. There is NO comparison on ANY level between UK basketball and UK football.
You were so emphatic .....
"There is NO comparison on ANY level between UK basketball and UK football."
If the same people are crazy critical of their basketball team why would they be so much more tolerant of their football team?
Aside from fan base there is NO comparison between UK football and UK basketball. I wrongly assumed that the loan commonality between the two was obvious.
I'm not talking in terms of crazy critical, I'm talking about both programs as a whole.
UK Basketball - Decorated rich history
UK Football - lumps of coal splashed with some mediocrity
UK Basketball - Destination
UK Football - not even a bathroom stop yet
UK Basketball - Rupp Arean/Craft Center (Rupp is called the Meca by many)
UK Football - CWS/New traning facility (finally got serious with facilities...FINALLY)
UK Basketball - Top 1-3 recruiting classes routinely
UK Football - Best classes probably ever and still last in SEC
UK Basketball - reloads
UK Football - trying to build
There is more, but you guys get the picture...I hope.
I get all that, but this discussion is regarding the fans reaction and conversation regarding the football team. The same fans who discuss the basketball team.
You can say that they shouldn't be so critical of the football team for all the above stated reasons you posted.
Of course many will tell you that they are not nearly as critical or have the expectations as the basketball team. 6-6 does not equal National Championship.
Nearly every message board has its "toxic" culture. How do you think Paul Finebaum became the sounding board for all the crazies across the SEC? This is the sports world in which we live.