Collins

Deeringfish

All-Conference
Jun 23, 2008
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Since I started this conversation about fatigue contributing to injury I though I should share the unscientific origin of my opinion. I spent most of my career (25 years) running a youth camp and retreat center. Every night after supper we would play a "big game" that was usually some variation of capture the flag. Each week was a different age group with about 100 campers and staff running and chasing like mad all over about 8 acres of our campus. Over time we realized that if we let the games go over 30 minutes there would be a long line at the infirmary of twisted ankles, scraped knees and the occasional broken leg or arm. If we stopped the game at 30 minutes, not so much.

I realize that NU BB players are gifted athletes at the peak of fitness but they also push their bodies much harder every day than kids playing a pick up game.
 

AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
9,749
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Since I started this conversation about fatigue contributing to injury I though I should share the unscientific origin of my opinion. I spent most of my career (25 years) running a youth camp and retreat center. Every night after supper we would play a "big game" that was usually some variation of capture the flag. Each week was a different age group with about 100 campers and staff running and chasing like mad all over about 8 acres of our campus. Over time we realized that if we let the games go over 30 minutes there would be a long line at the infirmary of twisted ankles, scraped knees and the occasional broken leg or arm. If we stopped the game at 30 minutes, not so much.

I realize that NU BB players are gifted athletes at the peak of fitness but they also push their bodies much harder every day than kids playing a pick up game.
Twisted ankles and scraped knees!
 

Deeringfish

All-Conference
Jun 23, 2008
21,050
1,309
63
Twisted ankles and scraped knees!
And the occasional broken arm or leg. It is a tough phone call to make to the parents to tell them that their kid is in the emergency room at the local hospital. "Hi Mrs Smith, I'm sorry to tell you we broke your baby. Don't worry, he has stopped crying for now. We'll let you know more after the X-rays come back."
 

AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
9,749
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And the occasional broken arm or leg. It is a tough phone call to make to the parents to tell them that their kid is in the emergency room at the local hospital. "Hi Mrs Smith, I'm sorry to tell you we broke your baby. Don't worry, he has stopped crying for now. We'll let you know more after the X-rays come back."
None of this is a relevant anecdote to the discussion of a college football game
 
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Sep 9, 2015
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If Reid, Martinelli, or Page were to miss extended time, it would drastically limit this team’s ceiling and lower its floor. Northwestern does have better depth this year, but those three are foundational pieces. They’re the ones who stabilize the rotation and dictate how the team flows on both ends. Losing any one of them would have real repercussions for lineup balance, spacing, and overall identity. The increased depth will show itself if a role player goes down or goes through a tough stretch of play.
Exhibit A DePaul game.
 

clarificationcat

Sophomore
Jan 25, 2005
3,301
183
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Last year. We have depth but if we are going to get to the tournament Martinelli , Page, Singleton and Reid need to stay healthy imo.
After watching the DePaul game, I am sticking to my earlier post.

Way, way too early to make make any intelligent judgments but Kropp is giving me serious undersized Hunger vibes. He got pushed around big time. And I got tired of watching West dribble without making anything happen. He looked slow tonight. Confidence can make you quicker so hopefully both of them will get some as the season progresses.
 
Sep 9, 2015
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After watching the DePaul game, I am sticking to my earlier post.

Way, way too early to make make any intelligent judgments but Kropp is giving me serious undersized Hunger vibes. He got pushed around big time. And I got tired of watching West dribble without making anything happen. He looked slow tonight. Confidence can make you quicker so hopefully both of them will get some as the season progresses.
Kropp > Hunger
 

macarthur31

Sophomore
Nov 9, 2006
1,595
166
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After watching the DePaul game, I am sticking to my earlier post.

Way, way too early to make make any intelligent judgments but Kropp is giving me serious undersized Hunger vibes. He got pushed around big time. And I got tired of watching West dribble without making anything happen. He looked slow tonight. Confidence can make you quicker so hopefully both of them will get some as the season progresses.
Man, I love how we're torching true freshmen. They're only gonna get better by getting in game minutes. West can become a solid backup PG this season - I dig his confidence. Trust the process, man. This is going to pay off.
 

clarificationcat

Sophomore
Jan 25, 2005
3,301
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Man, I love how we're torching true freshmen. They're only gonna get better by getting in game minutes. West can become a solid backup PG this season - I dig his confidence. Trust the process, man. This is going to pay off.
I said it was too early. Just commenting on tonight’s game. Relax.
 
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Sep 9, 2015
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Not yet but I assume he will be.
As of now, yes Kropp > Hunger. I think people are overvaluing the impact of Hunger and Fitzmorris. I’m not trying to say Kropp is quality depth yet, because he still has a lot of growing to do. I’m just saying Hunger really struggled, and Fitzmorris was more “serviceable” than truly productive. Kropp already gives you better touch and long-term upside. It’s still the biggest weakness on the roster.
 
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CoralSpringsCat

All-Conference
Dec 10, 2018
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As of now, yes Kropp > Hunger. I think people are overvaluing the impact of Hunger and Fitzmorris. I’m not trying to say Kropp is quality depth yet, because he still has a lot of growing to do. I’m just saying Hunger really struggled, and Fitzmorris was more “serviceable” than truly productive. Kropp already gives you better touch and long-term upside. It’s still the biggest weakness on the roster.

This has nothing to do with Hunger/Fitzmorris; it’s about not having a serviceable backup to Page. The lack of an additional big is going to haunt this team. Kropp needs to grow up quickly as he looked dreadfully over matched tonight. I shudder to think what will happen when/if Page gets into early foul trouble.
 
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AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
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This has nothing to do with Hunger/Fitzmorris; it’s about not having a serviceable backup to Page. The lack of an additional big is going to haunt this team. Kropp needs to grow up quickly as he looked dreadfully over matched tonight. I shudder to think what will happen when/if Page gets into early foul trouble.
It wasn’t clear what he was doing out there

I’d happily see more Green. Nobody else could defend either but he can shoot
 

clarificationcat

Sophomore
Jan 25, 2005
3,301
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As of now, yes Kropp > Hunger. I think people are overvaluing the impact of Hunger and Fitzmorris. I’m not trying to say Kropp is quality depth yet, because he still has a lot of growing to do. I’m just saying Hunger really struggled, and Fitzmorris was more “serviceable” than truly productive. Kropp already gives you better touch and long-term upside. It’s still the biggest weakness on the roster.
He couldn’t hold his own on the boards today, which is his primary purpose at this point. I am sure he will get better. It will take him some time to adjust his game, though, as a below the rim power forward. I wish he were a couple of inches taller. That would help offset the lack of explosiveness a little bit.
 
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Sep 9, 2015
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He couldn’t hold his own on the boards today, which is his primary purpose at this point. I am sure he will get better. It will take him some time to adjust his game, though, as a below the rim power forward. I wish he were a couple of inches taller. That would help offset the lack of explosiveness a little bit.
I mean Hunger couldn’t hold his own on the boards either.
This has nothing to do with Hunger/Fitzmorris; it’s about not having a serviceable backup to Page. The lack of an additional big is going to haunt this team. Kropp needs to grow up quickly as he looked dreadfully over matched tonight. I shudder to think what will happen when/if Page gets into early foul trouble.
I get the concern, but I do think Kropp can grow into a serviceable backup. He’s not there yet, but the tools are better than what NU had. I don’t think Hunger was a serviceable backup, and Fitzmorris was borderline at best. It has been a weak spot on the roster for a while, but at least Kropp brings a higher ceiling than either of those guys.

He did look overmatched tonight, no doubt, but that’s part of being a young big adjusting to high-major physicality and speed. The learning curve is steep. If he can settle in and find the timing on both ends, he can give them enough to survive the stretches when Page sits.
 

xxxbobxxx

Sophomore
Mar 12, 2005
10,806
163
43
As of now, yes Kropp > Hunger. I think people are overvaluing the impact of Hunger and Fitzmorris. I’m not trying to say Kropp is quality depth yet, because he still has a lot of growing to do. I’m just saying Hunger really struggled, and Fitzmorris was more “serviceable” than truly productive. Kropp already gives you better touch and long-term upside. It’s still the biggest weakness on the roster.
Kropp is more popular around here right now than Hunger. Give it a few months and we will revisit.
 

ricko6543211

Junior
Nov 15, 2006
4,223
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In the end, most every team in every sport plays their best players a ton and doesn’t play subs for fear of injury to starters.
Interestingly in the NBA there are only 2 players currently playing >37 mpg in the entire league thus far this season. Tyrese Maxey 40.3 and VJ Edgecombe 37.3 both on Philly. That scales to 31 mpg in a shorter 40 minute college game. Over the last 20 years the NBA game has steadily trended toward playing your top guys fewer minutes and relying more on the bench depth thus allowing all players to play at a higher intensity and effort level for the minutes they are on the floor.
 
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AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
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Interestingly in the NBA there are only 2 players currently playing >37 mpg in the entire league thus far this season. Tyrese Maxey 40.3 and VJ Edgecombe 37.3 both on Philly. That scales to 31 mpg in a shorter 40 minute college game. Over the last 20 years the NBA game has steadily trended toward playing your top guys fewer minutes and relying more on the bench depth thus allowing all players to play at a higher intensity and effort level for the minutes they are on the floor.
Regular season and playoffs also different animals. NBA guys are also just over resting their stars for the overly long season.
 

olsh

Sophomore
Oct 6, 2001
3,555
164
63
This has nothing to do with Hunger/Fitzmorris; it’s about not having a serviceable backup to Page. The lack of an additional big is going to haunt this team. Kropp needs to grow up quickly as he looked dreadfully over matched tonight. I shudder to think what will happen when/if Page gets into early foul trouble.
They could embrace going small for those minutes? Might find it's better.
 
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Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
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Kropp is more popular around here right now than Hunger. Give it a few months and we will revisit.
A few months? He’s already turned into a lightning rod 4 games into his career.

People are forgetting Big Matt wasn’t Mutombo his first 4 games.
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,200
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Interestingly in the NBA there are only 2 players currently playing >37 mpg in the entire league thus far this season. Tyrese Maxey 40.3 and VJ Edgecombe 37.3 both on Philly. That scales to 31 mpg in a shorter 40 minute college game. Over the last 20 years the NBA game has steadily trended toward playing your top guys fewer minutes and relying more on the bench depth thus allowing all players to play at a higher intensity and effort level for the minutes they are on the floor.
Major props to anyone that can sit through 48 minutes of a NBA game.
 

Davidgolds5

Redshirt
Dec 2, 2024
398
41
28
These freshman have played four games. This was the first REAL game. Give these guys some time to figure it out. Collins must see some positives to insert Kropp in there. I have a feeling we will see some good things over the next month or so. The environment was pretty hostile in there last night, as DePaul battled the crowd was pretty into it. Great to get the win. Guess it’s a testament to the program that many of us are not satisfied after a nice road win.
 

clarificationcat

Sophomore
Jan 25, 2005
3,301
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A few months? He’s already turned into a lightning rod 4 games into his career.

People are forgetting Big Matt wasn’t Mutombo his first 4 games.
But Matt was always big. Kropp is just a little taller than Angelo. Kropp may ultimately end up being a valuable rotation guy at some point in his career but he’s not a center. He doesn’t have Pardon’s reach or athleticism. At this point we might be better off going really small when Page is out.
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
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But Matt was always big. Kropp is just a little taller than Angelo. Kropp may ultimately end up being a valuable rotation guy at some point in his career but he’s not a center. He doesn’t have Pardon’s reach or athleticism. At this point we might be better off going really small when Page is out.
Disagree. Now is the time to play Kropp and live with the growing pains. This isn’t going to be a stellar defensive team. Give AP rest and live with the learning curve. He’s not a Center, but he is the best option. The Wizard will work with him on positioning. There is enough offense, so the option would be to play the best defender ( Mullins) instead. I don’t see KJ or Green working out in a small line up for more than a few minutes. At least Kropp doesn’t have to take ( and miss) shots like our previous back up Center.
 

BleedingPurple15

Redshirt
Oct 3, 2017
317
8
18
My view is that Kropp is playing right now because there's no choice. My hope is that next year, Bennerman (and Ghai) can provide bodies to back up Page, while Kropp moves to being a bench power forward behind whoever replaces Martinelli in the starting rotation.
 
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CoralSpringsCat

All-Conference
Dec 10, 2018
2,563
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They could embrace going small for those minutes? Might find it's better.

Yes, that’s absolutely an option. Hopefully it works out for the best. Singleton doesn’t look like your normal frosh. He may be up to the task. I have serious doubts about Kropp at this stage. He needs to ramp up quickly. BJ has his work count out for himself.
 

AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
9,749
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My view is that Kropp is playing right now because there's no choice. My hope is that next year, Bennerman (and Ghai) can provide bodies to back up Page, while Kropp moves to being a bench power forward behind whoever replaces Martinelli in the starting rotation.
Hopefully Page is still on the roster next year. If he plays like this all year he’s going to be expensive
 
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hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,328
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After watching the DePaul game, I am sticking to my earlier post.

Way, way too early to make make any intelligent judgments but Kropp is giving me serious undersized Hunger vibes. He got pushed around big time. And I got tired of watching West dribble without making anything happen. He looked slow tonight. Confidence can make you quicker so hopefully both of them will get some as the season progresses.
He is a true frosh and it does typically take bigs longer to develop. Both are just trying to catch up to the speed of the game at this level. And their roles. Give them a little time for the game to slow down for them
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,328
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As of now, yes Kropp > Hunger. I think people are overvaluing the impact of Hunger and Fitzmorris. I’m not trying to say Kropp is quality depth yet, because he still has a lot of growing to do. I’m just saying Hunger really struggled, and Fitzmorris was more “serviceable” than truly productive. Kropp already gives you better touch and long-term upside. It’s still the biggest weakness on the roster.
Maybe if we were comparing Kropp now vs Hunger as a Frosh. Not yet between Kropp now vs Hunger now. Hopefully it will not take Kropp long to exceed Hunger