COVID-19 study.......

MountaineerWV

Sophomore
Sep 18, 2007
26,324
194
0
https://www.wired.com/story/what-if-covid-19-returns-every-year-like-the-common-cold/

THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS SARS-CoV-2 is often compared to its close genetic cousin SARS-CoV-1. And for good reason: The virus responsible for the early 2000s SARS outbreak is, in many ways, the closest parallel to what we’re dealing with now. Researchers look to it when studying how long the new virus survives on surfaces and whether it makes sense for us to wear masks. It provides a guide for how the curve of cases and deaths might bend if we all do our part and stay home. The comparison offers some hope: Social distancing and travel restrictions helped squash the SARS outbreak in about a year.

But that kind of sweeping containment has begun to look far less plausible. To predict the long-term course of Covid-19, a different analogy may be in order. What if the virus is more like some of its lesser-known family members, like HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-HKU1? The names are not as familiar, but you’ve likely met them before. These viruses cause the common cold. And while they’re less deadly than SARS or MERS, they’re peskier too; they come and go with the seasons, with human immunity waning over time. It’s why we keep catching them, again and again.

A paper published Tuesday in Science by Harvard University public health researchers explores that possibility, and what it would mean for Covid-19’s spread in the long term. Their conclusions are somewhat grim. If SARS-CoV-2 follows in the footsteps of these cold germs, herd immunity will be slower to build up and hold. (Herd immunity occurs when enough members of a population have either already had a disease or been vaccinated against it, stopping the flow of its transmission.) Until that happens, outbreaks would be a regular fact of life. Combined with the virus’s greater severity, that would require social distancing interventions to happen again and again, to avoid overwhelming hospitals each time.

The Harvard researchers found we could be looking at being shut-ins, at least from time to time, for a long while—think 2022.


The role of seasonality “is certainly not zero,” Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard who coauthored the study, said at a press conference held Tuesday. He cautioned that seasonal variability is not the same thing as saying the virus will go away in the summer. Outbreaks could occur at any time, he noted, but those that begin in the fall might be more severe. That kind of variation could have important implications for how social distancing measures are timed.

Whether Covid-19 will mirror the transmission of coronavirus-caused colds is far from certain, the researchers acknowledge. The virus has been around for only a few months, so no one has been able to directly study how it spreads during different seasons. We also don’t yet know how well immunity builds up, and how long it lasts once established. The Harvard team’s models also depend in part on the rather bleak assumption that the scientific community won’t develop treatments or vaccines that dull the virus’s toll on health systems. All that could change, the researchers say.

In the absence of hard data about SARS-CoV-2, the cold-causing coronaviruses are useful for making long-term comparisons, says Ashleigh Tuite, an epidemiologist at the University of Toronto who wasn’t involved in the study. “Are they going to be the same as SARS-CoV-2? Probably not. It’s a different virus,” she says. “But it’s probably the best analogy that we have to work off of right now, especially thinking longer term.” The paper does a good job outlining the uncertainties, she adds. It does what models do: helps us prepare for the unknown.

In their new study, the researchers start with a goal that’s at the heart of all social distancing measures: How do you manage the virus’s spread without running out of hospital beds? Using computer models, they gamed out potential seasonal variations, using the behavior of HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-HKU1 as a guide, and factoring in what’s known about Covid-19’s rate of spread and severity. They found social distancing interventions, if timed well, would likely need to extend into 2022 to get the new virus under control. Over time, as herd immunity to the virus gradually increases, those interventions could be dialed down, reducing them in both length and severity, with longer periods of relative normalcy in between.

For modeling the potential recurrence of the virus, the major questions are how much of the population gains immunity, and how quickly. Serosurveys would be a good place to start, Lipsitch believes. Widespread blood tests for antibodies to the virus would enable public health officials to study the question of immunity directly—first by measuring how many people have that immunity, and then, eventually, how long that immunity lasts. Longer immunity, or potentially even cross-immunity with other coronaviruses, would mean the disease could be stamped out more quickly.

Other, external factors could similarly help reduce the need for social distancing. That would include a vaccine or better therapies that reduce the number of people who end up in intensive care. One of the most critical factors for how stringent social interventions need to be is the nation’s health care capacity. More beds and staffing, the researchers note, could help us reach herd immunity faster, simply because more people could get sick at a time without individual hospitals getting clobbered.

Contact tracing, or keeping a record of everyone an infected person has crossed paths with, will also play a role. The current idea among epidemiologists and public health officials is that, once the present surge of cases is tamed in the US, we’ll switch to surveillance mode, opening up the economy again but employing widespread antibody testing and tracing people’s contacts through cell phones or an army of public health officials.

But the experiences of East Asian countries like Singapore, which had initial success with contact tracing and isolation but are currently facing a resurgence of Covid-19 cases thanks to germs carried by inbound travelers, casts some doubt on how long surveillance alone can hold the line if people are not also sheltering at home. “The problem with that—as Singapore, with arguably the best public health system in the world, has discovered—is that it's very difficult to do with this infection,” said Lipsitch. Widespread testing and surveillance will be important for managing cases that emerge during periods of relative calm and alerting health authorities to new outbreaks. But other public health systems, including those in the US, are far less equipped for these measures, and are still in the middle of attempting to control a surge. For now in the US, “I think distancing interventions of some sort will have to continue,” he said.

Factoring in seasonality could be important for making sure those interventions are well-timed. One danger, for example, might be holding tight to social distancing measures for a long period and relaxing them just before a fresh surge that begins in the fall. Because few people would have developed immunity during the earlier period of social distancing, that would potentially mean a more dire result in the next outbreak.


Logistically, it will be difficult to do that kind of toggling. “It’s not a switch you can turn on and off,” Tuite says. First, the US will have to get the current surge of cases under control. Then, we’ll need to have enough testing to monitor for when new cases spike again. But it will remain challenging to calibrate when, exactly, to reinstate social distancing to prepare for a subsequent surge. Society may have trouble accepting a stuttering, lurching return to normal, especially one that interrupts school schedules, political campaigns and staffing for businesses that will need to open up only to later close down. “What these models show is that this is not a one and done,” Tuite says. “The next step is to figure out how we get to something that’s sustainable.”
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,738
543
103
https://www.wired.com/story/what-if-covid-19-returns-every-year-like-the-common-cold/

THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS SARS-CoV-2 is often compared to its close genetic cousin SARS-CoV-1. And for good reason: The virus responsible for the early 2000s SARS outbreak is, in many ways, the closest parallel to what we’re dealing with now. Researchers look to it when studying how long the new virus survives on surfaces and whether it makes sense for us to wear masks. It provides a guide for how the curve of cases and deaths might bend if we all do our part and stay home. The comparison offers some hope: Social distancing and travel restrictions helped squash the SARS outbreak in about a year.

But that kind of sweeping containment has begun to look far less plausible. To predict the long-term course of Covid-19, a different analogy may be in order. What if the virus is more like some of its lesser-known family members, like HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-HKU1? The names are not as familiar, but you’ve likely met them before. These viruses cause the common cold. And while they’re less deadly than SARS or MERS, they’re peskier too; they come and go with the seasons, with human immunity waning over time. It’s why we keep catching them, again and again.

A paper published Tuesday in Science by Harvard University public health researchers explores that possibility, and what it would mean for Covid-19’s spread in the long term. Their conclusions are somewhat grim. If SARS-CoV-2 follows in the footsteps of these cold germs, herd immunity will be slower to build up and hold. (Herd immunity occurs when enough members of a population have either already had a disease or been vaccinated against it, stopping the flow of its transmission.) Until that happens, outbreaks would be a regular fact of life. Combined with the virus’s greater severity, that would require social distancing interventions to happen again and again, to avoid overwhelming hospitals each time.

The Harvard researchers found we could be looking at being shut-ins, at least from time to time, for a long while—think 2022.


The role of seasonality “is certainly not zero,” Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard who coauthored the study, said at a press conference held Tuesday. He cautioned that seasonal variability is not the same thing as saying the virus will go away in the summer. Outbreaks could occur at any time, he noted, but those that begin in the fall might be more severe. That kind of variation could have important implications for how social distancing measures are timed.

Whether Covid-19 will mirror the transmission of coronavirus-caused colds is far from certain, the researchers acknowledge. The virus has been around for only a few months, so no one has been able to directly study how it spreads during different seasons. We also don’t yet know how well immunity builds up, and how long it lasts once established. The Harvard team’s models also depend in part on the rather bleak assumption that the scientific community won’t develop treatments or vaccines that dull the virus’s toll on health systems. All that could change, the researchers say.

In the absence of hard data about SARS-CoV-2, the cold-causing coronaviruses are useful for making long-term comparisons, says Ashleigh Tuite, an epidemiologist at the University of Toronto who wasn’t involved in the study. “Are they going to be the same as SARS-CoV-2? Probably not. It’s a different virus,” she says. “But it’s probably the best analogy that we have to work off of right now, especially thinking longer term.” The paper does a good job outlining the uncertainties, she adds. It does what models do: helps us prepare for the unknown.

In their new study, the researchers start with a goal that’s at the heart of all social distancing measures: How do you manage the virus’s spread without running out of hospital beds? Using computer models, they gamed out potential seasonal variations, using the behavior of HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-HKU1 as a guide, and factoring in what’s known about Covid-19’s rate of spread and severity. They found social distancing interventions, if timed well, would likely need to extend into 2022 to get the new virus under control. Over time, as herd immunity to the virus gradually increases, those interventions could be dialed down, reducing them in both length and severity, with longer periods of relative normalcy in between.

For modeling the potential recurrence of the virus, the major questions are how much of the population gains immunity, and how quickly. Serosurveys would be a good place to start, Lipsitch believes. Widespread blood tests for antibodies to the virus would enable public health officials to study the question of immunity directly—first by measuring how many people have that immunity, and then, eventually, how long that immunity lasts. Longer immunity, or potentially even cross-immunity with other coronaviruses, would mean the disease could be stamped out more quickly.

Other, external factors could similarly help reduce the need for social distancing. That would include a vaccine or better therapies that reduce the number of people who end up in intensive care. One of the most critical factors for how stringent social interventions need to be is the nation’s health care capacity. More beds and staffing, the researchers note, could help us reach herd immunity faster, simply because more people could get sick at a time without individual hospitals getting clobbered.

Contact tracing, or keeping a record of everyone an infected person has crossed paths with, will also play a role. The current idea among epidemiologists and public health officials is that, once the present surge of cases is tamed in the US, we’ll switch to surveillance mode, opening up the economy again but employing widespread antibody testing and tracing people’s contacts through cell phones or an army of public health officials.

But the experiences of East Asian countries like Singapore, which had initial success with contact tracing and isolation but are currently facing a resurgence of Covid-19 cases thanks to germs carried by inbound travelers, casts some doubt on how long surveillance alone can hold the line if people are not also sheltering at home. “The problem with that—as Singapore, with arguably the best public health system in the world, has discovered—is that it's very difficult to do with this infection,” said Lipsitch. Widespread testing and surveillance will be important for managing cases that emerge during periods of relative calm and alerting health authorities to new outbreaks. But other public health systems, including those in the US, are far less equipped for these measures, and are still in the middle of attempting to control a surge. For now in the US, “I think distancing interventions of some sort will have to continue,” he said.

Factoring in seasonality could be important for making sure those interventions are well-timed. One danger, for example, might be holding tight to social distancing measures for a long period and relaxing them just before a fresh surge that begins in the fall. Because few people would have developed immunity during the earlier period of social distancing, that would potentially mean a more dire result in the next outbreak.


Logistically, it will be difficult to do that kind of toggling. “It’s not a switch you can turn on and off,” Tuite says. First, the US will have to get the current surge of cases under control. Then, we’ll need to have enough testing to monitor for when new cases spike again. But it will remain challenging to calibrate when, exactly, to reinstate social distancing to prepare for a subsequent surge. Society may have trouble accepting a stuttering, lurching return to normal, especially one that interrupts school schedules, political campaigns and staffing for businesses that will need to open up only to later close down. “What these models show is that this is not a one and done,” Tuite says. “The next step is to figure out how we get to something that’s sustainable.”
too much info for the sheeples....you will set them off again
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
https://www.wired.com/story/what-if-covid-19-returns-every-year-like-the-common-cold/

THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS SARS-CoV-2 is often compared to its close genetic cousin SARS-CoV-1. And for good reason: The virus responsible for the early 2000s SARS outbreak is, in many ways, the closest parallel to what we’re dealing with now. Researchers look to it when studying how long the new virus survives on surfaces and whether it makes sense for us to wear masks. It provides a guide for how the curve of cases and deaths might bend if we all do our part and stay home. The comparison offers some hope: Social distancing and travel restrictions helped squash the SARS outbreak in about a year.

But that kind of sweeping containment has begun to look far less plausible. To predict the long-term course of Covid-19, a different analogy may be in order. What if the virus is more like some of its lesser-known family members, like HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-HKU1? The names are not as familiar, but you’ve likely met them before. These viruses cause the common cold. And while they’re less deadly than SARS or MERS, they’re peskier too; they come and go with the seasons, with human immunity waning over time. It’s why we keep catching them, again and again.

A paper published Tuesday in Science by Harvard University public health researchers explores that possibility, and what it would mean for Covid-19’s spread in the long term. Their conclusions are somewhat grim. If SARS-CoV-2 follows in the footsteps of these cold germs, herd immunity will be slower to build up and hold. (Herd immunity occurs when enough members of a population have either already had a disease or been vaccinated against it, stopping the flow of its transmission.) Until that happens, outbreaks would be a regular fact of life. Combined with the virus’s greater severity, that would require social distancing interventions to happen again and again, to avoid overwhelming hospitals each time.

The Harvard researchers found we could be looking at being shut-ins, at least from time to time, for a long while—think 2022.


The role of seasonality “is certainly not zero,” Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard who coauthored the study, said at a press conference held Tuesday. He cautioned that seasonal variability is not the same thing as saying the virus will go away in the summer. Outbreaks could occur at any time, he noted, but those that begin in the fall might be more severe. That kind of variation could have important implications for how social distancing measures are timed.

Whether Covid-19 will mirror the transmission of coronavirus-caused colds is far from certain, the researchers acknowledge. The virus has been around for only a few months, so no one has been able to directly study how it spreads during different seasons. We also don’t yet know how well immunity builds up, and how long it lasts once established. The Harvard team’s models also depend in part on the rather bleak assumption that the scientific community won’t develop treatments or vaccines that dull the virus’s toll on health systems. All that could change, the researchers say.

In the absence of hard data about SARS-CoV-2, the cold-causing coronaviruses are useful for making long-term comparisons, says Ashleigh Tuite, an epidemiologist at the University of Toronto who wasn’t involved in the study. “Are they going to be the same as SARS-CoV-2? Probably not. It’s a different virus,” she says. “But it’s probably the best analogy that we have to work off of right now, especially thinking longer term.” The paper does a good job outlining the uncertainties, she adds. It does what models do: helps us prepare for the unknown.

In their new study, the researchers start with a goal that’s at the heart of all social distancing measures: How do you manage the virus’s spread without running out of hospital beds? Using computer models, they gamed out potential seasonal variations, using the behavior of HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-HKU1 as a guide, and factoring in what’s known about Covid-19’s rate of spread and severity. They found social distancing interventions, if timed well, would likely need to extend into 2022 to get the new virus under control. Over time, as herd immunity to the virus gradually increases, those interventions could be dialed down, reducing them in both length and severity, with longer periods of relative normalcy in between.

For modeling the potential recurrence of the virus, the major questions are how much of the population gains immunity, and how quickly. Serosurveys would be a good place to start, Lipsitch believes. Widespread blood tests for antibodies to the virus would enable public health officials to study the question of immunity directly—first by measuring how many people have that immunity, and then, eventually, how long that immunity lasts. Longer immunity, or potentially even cross-immunity with other coronaviruses, would mean the disease could be stamped out more quickly.

Other, external factors could similarly help reduce the need for social distancing. That would include a vaccine or better therapies that reduce the number of people who end up in intensive care. One of the most critical factors for how stringent social interventions need to be is the nation’s health care capacity. More beds and staffing, the researchers note, could help us reach herd immunity faster, simply because more people could get sick at a time without individual hospitals getting clobbered.

Contact tracing, or keeping a record of everyone an infected person has crossed paths with, will also play a role. The current idea among epidemiologists and public health officials is that, once the present surge of cases is tamed in the US, we’ll switch to surveillance mode, opening up the economy again but employing widespread antibody testing and tracing people’s contacts through cell phones or an army of public health officials.

But the experiences of East Asian countries like Singapore, which had initial success with contact tracing and isolation but are currently facing a resurgence of Covid-19 cases thanks to germs carried by inbound travelers, casts some doubt on how long surveillance alone can hold the line if people are not also sheltering at home. “The problem with that—as Singapore, with arguably the best public health system in the world, has discovered—is that it's very difficult to do with this infection,” said Lipsitch. Widespread testing and surveillance will be important for managing cases that emerge during periods of relative calm and alerting health authorities to new outbreaks. But other public health systems, including those in the US, are far less equipped for these measures, and are still in the middle of attempting to control a surge. For now in the US, “I think distancing interventions of some sort will have to continue,” he said.

Factoring in seasonality could be important for making sure those interventions are well-timed. One danger, for example, might be holding tight to social distancing measures for a long period and relaxing them just before a fresh surge that begins in the fall. Because few people would have developed immunity during the earlier period of social distancing, that would potentially mean a more dire result in the next outbreak.


Logistically, it will be difficult to do that kind of toggling. “It’s not a switch you can turn on and off,” Tuite says. First, the US will have to get the current surge of cases under control. Then, we’ll need to have enough testing to monitor for when new cases spike again. But it will remain challenging to calibrate when, exactly, to reinstate social distancing to prepare for a subsequent surge. Society may have trouble accepting a stuttering, lurching return to normal, especially one that interrupts school schedules, political campaigns and staffing for businesses that will need to open up only to later close down. “What these models show is that this is not a one and done,” Tuite says. “The next step is to figure out how we get to something that’s sustainable.”

You are wasting your time trying to convince the "gloom & doom" crowd we're not all about to DIE from Covid-19. All you're doing trying to inject some measure of rational common sense into this discussion is building your resume for full admission in the "moron" "scum" fraternity once folks on the Left consider you well qualified posting reasonable facts like this.

Keep it up, you'll soon be granted an honorary membership. [eyeroll]
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,738
543
103
You are wasting your time trying to convince the "gloom & doom" crowd we're not all about to DIE from Covid-19. All you're doing trying to inject some measure of rational common sense into this discussion is building your resume for full admission in the "moron" "scum" fraternity once folks on the Left consider you well qualified posting reasonable facts like this.

Keep it up, you'll soon be granted an honorary membership. [eyeroll]
he gets my vote:)
 

MountaineerWV

Sophomore
Sep 18, 2007
26,324
194
0
Some of these "leftists" on here are smart people. I don't think they are retarded. That's why this is frustrating. There is a lot of smart people that are just bending over and taking this. They are believing everything that is being reported on the mass media outlets. For example, I can't get them to tell me why they are using the raw numbers and not the actual percentages. It's pretty obvious why they are doing this. LARGER numbers create MORE fear. And now with the "vaccine" comments we keep hearing. There's a better than 50% chance there won't be one. How can there be? It's looking more like it shares characteristics with the "common cold" than anything else. No vaccine or cure for that.

Why is it hard to just try something different? Open things back up. Quarantine those that are at risk or those that are scared and voluntarily want to live their lives in fear. Let the rest of us enjoy life as we once did.
 

tOSUGrad90

Redshirt
Oct 19, 2015
7,341
0
0
Some of these "leftists" on here are smart people. I don't think they are retarded. That's why this is frustrating. There is a lot of smart people that are just bending over and taking this. They are believing everything that is being reported on the mass media outlets. For example, I can't get them to tell me why they are using the raw numbers and not the actual percentages. It's pretty obvious why they are doing this. LARGER numbers create MORE fear. And now with the "vaccine" comments we keep hearing. There's a better than 50% chance there won't be one. How can there be? It's looking more like it shares characteristics with the "common cold" than anything else. No vaccine or cure for that.

Why is it hard to just try something different? Open things back up. Quarantine those that are at risk or those that are scared and voluntarily want to live their lives in fear. Let the rest of us enjoy life as we once did.
You're approaching this logically, but you have to understand that the hate of Donald Trump "trumps" everything else for many liberals. Keeping everybody locked down until November is the game plan. That way, there is no chance for any sort of an economic recovery before Election Day, and Trump's chances of winning are slim. The obsession with testing everybody is proof of this.
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,738
543
103
You're approaching this logically, but you have to understand that the hate of Donald Trump "trumps" everything else for many liberals. Keeping everybody locked down until November is the game plan. That way, there is no chance for any sort of an economic recovery before Election Day, and Trump's chances of winning are slim. The obsession with testing everybody is proof of this.
exactly.......liberals hate Trump more than they love America
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,738
543
103
Some of these "leftists" on here are smart people. I don't think they are retarded. That's why this is frustrating. There is a lot of smart people that are just bending over and taking this. They are believing everything that is being reported on the mass media outlets. For example, I can't get them to tell me why they are using the raw numbers and not the actual percentages. It's pretty obvious why they are doing this. LARGER numbers create MORE fear. And now with the "vaccine" comments we keep hearing. There's a better than 50% chance there won't be one. How can there be? It's looking more like it shares characteristics with the "common cold" than anything else. No vaccine or cure for that.

Why is it hard to just try something different? Open things back up. Quarantine those that are at risk or those that are scared and voluntarily want to live their lives in fear. Let the rest of us enjoy life as we once did.
a lot of them used to be smart but TDS made them retarded......you however seemed to have survived:D
 

MountaineerWV

Sophomore
Sep 18, 2007
26,324
194
0
So, is it true that a hospital is paid THREE TIMES MORE if they declare a patient to have COVID-19 and put in ICU? Hmmm..........
 

WVU82_rivals

Senior
May 29, 2001
199,091
693
0
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
a lot of them used to be smart but TDS made them retarded......you however seemed to have survived:D

I'm more amazed at him than I am how easily everyone has surrendered their freedom over this hype. MWV is all over it. Damn!
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,738
543
103
I'm more amazed at him than I am how easily everyone has surrendered their freedom over this hype. MWV is all over it. Damn!
he has always been one of the level headed liberals...we may have disagreed a lot but at least he had valid points sometimes
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
he has always been one of the level headed liberals...we may have disagreed a lot but at least he had valid points sometimes

Up until he started posting on this issue, I always took him for one of those "Leftists at all costs". But early on he was making valid comments I couldn't honestly disagree with, now he sounds like he's come over to the "dark side"!


Even Bru and Country are calling him names, so what does that tell you?
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,738
543
103
Up until he started posting on this issue, I always took him for one of those "Leftists at all costs". But early on he was making valid comments I couldn't honestly disagree with, now he sounds like he's come over to the "dark side"!


Even Bru and Country are calling him names, so what does that tell you?
if bru and country are calling you names then you must be doing something right.......welcome home MountaineerWV
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
So, is it true that a hospital is paid THREE TIMES MORE if they declare a patient to have COVID-19 and put in ICU? Hmmm..........

Yes that is true. Medicare pays more in re-reimbursements for covid-19 than the simple flu...so there is an incentive for the hopsital to classify flu-like symptoms as covid-19 and recommend that treatment which includes a respirator.
 
Jan 4, 2003
44,738
543
103
Yes that is true. Medicare pays more in re-reimbursements for covid-19 than the simple flu...so there is an incentive for the hopsital to classify flu-like symptoms as covid-19 and recommend that treatment which includes a respirator.
that sucks...if Trump was in favor of that then he was flat wrong in my opinion
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
I can't get them to tell me why they are using the raw numbers and not the actual percentages. It's pretty obvious why they are doing this. LARGER numbers create MORE fear.

You both asked and correctly answered your own question here. It's all about spreading fear, panic, uncertainty, and loss of confidence anything can be done to keep folks from dying. Stay home, afraid to live, afraid to shop, afraid to work, afraid to DIE! You're gonna DIE...if you don't do what we say! [eyeroll]

More testing will reveal lower death rates, and higher rates of exposure. Hopefully soon the fear gives way to more rational understanding that most folks are not at risk.

It's nauseating.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
that sucks...if Trump was in favor of that then he was flat wrong in my opinion

I'm not sure he had any control over it. Bureaucratic regs in the Medicare disbursements to hospitals and other health care providers, and since Covid-19 cases received priority...the money grab was on.
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
Some of these "leftists" on here are smart people. I don't think they are retarded. That's why this is frustrating. There is a lot of smart people that are just bending over and taking this. They are believing everything that is being reported on the mass media outlets. For example, I can't get them to tell me why they are using the raw numbers and not the actual percentages. It's pretty obvious why they are doing this. LARGER numbers create MORE fear. And now with the "vaccine" comments we keep hearing. There's a better than 50% chance there won't be one. How can there be? It's looking more like it shares characteristics with the "common cold" than anything else. No vaccine or cure for that.

Why is it hard to just try something different? Open things back up. Quarantine those that are at risk or those that are scared and voluntarily want to live their lives in fear. Let the rest of us enjoy life as we once did.

You're approaching this logically, but you have to understand that the hate of Donald Trump "trumps" everything else for many liberals. Keeping everybody locked down until November is the game plan. That way, there is no chance for any sort of an economic recovery before Election Day, and Trump's chances of winning are slim. The obsession with testing everybody is proof of this.

exactly.......liberals hate Trump more than they love America
How FVCKING stupid do y’all mo fo’s gots to be to be bappin n slappin all over da libs n ****, talkin dey be doin dis jazzy funk over dey lack of love for da Trump, when it be Trump floatin dees shut down guidelines anyhow?

floppin titties man, GOP be in on dis too fluffy flus - ain’t just a lib thang ya bunch a jive joe joes.

We don’t know enough yet to prepare any type of long term solution for this virus. People are throwing out numbers left and right to support what they want to see. We need time and more data to know any which way.
 

tOSUGrad90

Redshirt
Oct 19, 2015
7,341
0
0
You're trying to hard, Boom. You could have simply posted, I'm a CNN bot, and Anderson has told me to wait until November to support reopening of any part of the economy. Until then, just robotically say, "testing, testing, testing, and more testing." Did I mention, testing?
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
You're trying to hard, Boom. You could have simply posted, I'm a CNN bot, and Anderson has told me to wait until November to support reopening of any part of the economy. Until then, just robotically say, "testing, testing, testing, and more testing." Did I mention, testing?
Actually, testing is important sure, but I don’t think it’s going to be accurate enough to dictate policy right now. I think opening back up is ok, gradually. I just think we need to be ready, well stocked, and willing to slow things up again if hospitals start to get over run. Until we get more information from the antibodies tests, research of the virus, studies on effects, and treatment trials, knowing how to strategize for this effectively isn’t completely clear.

I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from, but it seems like you’re thinking in a partisan way about an issue here, I’m not.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
Actually, testing is important sure, but I don’t think it’s going to be accurate enough to dictate policy right now. I think opening back up is ok, gradually. I just think we need to be ready, well stocked, and willing to slow things up again if hospitals start to get over run. Until we get more information from the antibodies tests, research of the virus, studies on effects, and treatment trials, knowing how to strategize for this effectively isn’t completely clear.

I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from, but it seems like you’re thinking in a partisan way about an issue here, I’m not.

I agree with @MountaineerWV 's take on all of this:
There is a lot of smart people that are just bending over and taking this. They are believing everything that is being reported on the mass media outlets. For example, I can't get them to tell me why they are using the raw numbers and not the actual percentages. It's pretty obvious why they are doing this. LARGER numbers create MORE fear.

He's 100% correct. Do you disagree with him? If so, where is he wrong?
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
I agree with @MountaineerWV 's take on all of this:


He's 100% correct. Do you disagree with him? If so, where is he wrong?
Percentages of what? Deaths of people total. Deaths of people infected?

Maybe people are more fearful of this virus than some people think they should be. I don’t know. But I think the narrative that the CEO of Disney, owners of NBA and MLB teams, GOP Governors, Dem Governors, and everyone else has been scared by the MSM into these actions is weak. Substantially weak.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
Percentages of what? Deaths of people total. Deaths of people infected?

Maybe people are more fearful of this virus than some people think they should be. I don’t know. But I think the narrative that the CEO of Disney, owners of NBA and MLB teams, GOP Governors, Dem Governors, and everyone else has been scared by the MSM into these actions is weak. Substantially weak.

Of course the deaths of people infected. MWV asked the question here:

I can't get them to tell me why they are using the raw numbers and not the actual percentages. It's pretty obvious why they are doing this. LARGER numbers create MORE fear

I agree with him. I asked you if you disagreed with him? Instead of answering you asked another question which he'd already explained.

The virus is real, the fear, panic, and resultant economic shutdown is part of a media driven hoax. It's time to open America back up so you anti-Trump haters will really have something to hate again...a booming economy that "officially" won't be because of Obama, and will result in Trump's landslide re-election. Make no mistake, that's what you all are desperate to prevent and you're lying if you suggest otherwise.
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
Of course the deaths of people infected. MWV asked the question here:



I agree with him. I asked you if you disagreed with him? Instead of answering you asked another question which he'd already explained.

The virus is real, the fear, panic, and resultant economic shutdown is part of a media driven hoax. It's time to open America back up so you anti-Trump haters will really have something to hate again...a booming economy that "officially" won't be because of Obama, and will result in Trump's landslide re-election. Make no mistake, that's what you all are desperate to prevent and you're lying if you suggest otherwise.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-death-rate.html

That percentage would be high.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113

Liars figure and figures lie.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

excerpt:
Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function.

The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies.

...more
In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 10 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that. For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000.
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
Liars figure and figures lie.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

excerpt:
Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function.

The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies.

...more
In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 10 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that. For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000.
While I am aware and very excited about both of these studies. There are concerns with the validity of that test, possibility of reinfection and potential long term effects of the virus.

These studies are examples of the information we will gain as we go forward. Testing these viruses, and the antibodies they produce within us, is a much more complicated process than people see it to be. This isn’t a conspiracy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/coronavirus-antibody-studies-california-stanford
The NY study was better at addressing some of the concerns of the Stanford study’s validity, but it’s methodology was a concern as well. In both cases, many health professionals and infectious disease experts warn that these tests are not a solid indicator of any critical data with regard to public safety.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-antibodies-test-ny.html
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
While I am aware and very excited about both of these studies. There are concerns with the validity of that test, possibility of reinfection and potential long term effects of the virus.

These studies are examples of the information we will gain as we go forward. Testing these viruses, and the antibodies they produce within us, is a much more complicated process than people see it to be. This isn’t a conspiracy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/coronavirus-antibody-studies-california-stanford
The NY study was better at addressing some of the concerns of the Stanford study’s validity, but it’s methodology was a concern as well. In both cases, many health professionals and infectious disease experts warn that these tests are not a solid indicator of any critical data with regard to public safety.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-antibodies-test-ny.html

Two facts remain constant through all of your parsing of these "studies".

The death rates from known incidents of infection aren't nearly so calamitous that it required a total shut down of the nation's economy...and most people reasonably healthy with reasonably functioning immune systems if they even know they have the virus, survive it.

Those two confirmed facts will never change no matter how many variables or variations are introduced or speculated on over the multitudinous studies being bandied about to justify the miscalculations and misconceptions of the early modeling hype and hysteria of this health threat.

It never was the imminent death sentence it was made out to be, and we caused a very unfortunate and needless disruption of folk's livelihoods over an unwarranted panic.
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
Two facts remain constant through all of your parsing of these "studies". the death rates from known incidents of infection aren't nearly so calamitous that it required a total shut down of the nation's economy...and most people reasonably healthy with reasonably functioning immune systems if they even know they have the virus, survive it.

Those two confirmed facts will never change no matter how many variables or variations are introduced or speculated on over the multitudinous studies being bandied about to justify the miscalculations and misconceptions of the early modeling hype and hysteria of this health threat.

It never was the imminent death sentence it was made out to be, and we caused a very unfortunate and needless disruption of folk's livelihoods over an unwarranted panic.
Even if you are right, it wasn’t until now that this information was known. I expect to hear scathing criticism of your President if you are to believe this destruction of our economy was not warranted. It was recommended by Trump - albeit much later than I think it should’ve been - and guidelines set by his administration’s CDC
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
Even if you are right, it wasn’t until now that this information was known. I expect to hear scathing criticism of your President if you are to believe this destruction of our economy was not warranted. It was recommended by Trump - albeit much later than I think it should’ve been - and guidelines set by his administration’s CDC

Trump didn't know anything about it, yet when advised to take action he did and drew nothing but criticism from the very folks who now claim he acted too late.

His recommendations over the economy were based on the faulty models that his health experts relied on to advise him and which YOU still believe were justifiably warranted. Go ahead and blame him, it will blow up in your face just like "collusion" and "obstruction" and "extortion" and "impeachment". [eyeroll]

Face it boom, I'm just waiting to get annihilated by that orange colored carnival barker
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
From M-A-G-A to M-E-G-A

"Make economy great again"

I'm on it already atl...just watch

Work it DJT!
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
Oxford economics predicts rapid economic recovery post Covid-19

link
https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel...icts-rapid-economic-recovery-post-coronavirus

excerpt:
“Attention is understandably focused on limiting the damage from the short-term effects of the coronavirus outbreak. But it’s likely that once disruption and uncertainty fade, the rebound in global economic activity will be strong,” Oxford Economics said. “It’s important for firms to position themselves for such a recovery.”

...more
The group said historical evidence supports its analysis, noting that over the last 200 years, short recessions have typically been followed by robust recovery.

“Long-term impacts from natural disasters have generally only been evident for specific hazards,” Oxford said. “With the notable exception of AIDS, longer-term pandemic effects also appear to have been contained.
 

atlkvb

All-American
Jul 9, 2004
82,706
6,316
113
More economic analysis on why we should be fine and recovery will be swift.


The shape of Covid-19 economic recovery
https://knowledge.insead.edu/blog/insead-blog/the-shape-of-the-covid-19-economic-recovery-13841

excerpt:
“This is not a financial shock, not a regular recession,. “It’s a natural disaster.” The global effect of COVID-19 is a health shock, unlike previous recessions caused by bubbles; there isn’t a particular policy or business error behind the economic decline. It’s spurred by the pandemic and the consequences and the likely path of the economy will depend very much on how the pandemic evolves.

...more
Once the spread is managed, economic recovery could surprise us
The outcome of national lockdowns is obvious: “If none of us can go to work, economic activity stops. We are facing one of the largest economic shocks of the last 100 years. This is not a normal shock. This is the fastest GDP fall ever…The quarter-to-quarter number for advanced economies is likely to be -8 percent, which is a massive number (it translates into -30 percent at an annualised rate).”

Fatás reminded us, “But this is not a normal recession. We closed the economy. We understand why GDP's so low. Referring to graphs that show sharp falls and quick gains, Fatás speculated, “Could it be that we have a V-shape like the one we see every August in Spain?” That’s what seems to be happening in China – it’s early days – but in its PMI graph, we see a quick rebound.