Cowherd says if this is what you do to Syracuse......
- Thread starter KMKAT
- Start date
It's always good to hear it's making the airwaves. I keep thinking the tide will somehow really turn against UNCheat... but every time, they just ride it out on their NCAA/ESPN surfboard.
Serious question here, what all has been proven that the basketball program actually did? I know it's been shown players took the classes and that counselors placed some in those classes, but what else? It's hard to follow with so much he said she said, but I know some here know everything and know what's hearsay and what is actual facts. For example, I hear a lot about how McCants was kept eligible with the four As, but those were in the spring semester of his junior year and hence had no effect on his eligibility. Similar things happened with the Rose situation and therefore very few know the facts versus hearsay.
Fortunately for you, the Willingham book is coming out in less than a week! You will get to learn all the facts.
I will make just one point....almost every player on the 05 team was majoring in AFAM and took multiple AFAM classes. UNC*** has hidden behind FERPA to avoid giving ANY of the info that would show whether or not those players were eligible otherwise to play bball. But, anyone with a brain knows that there is no way they were eligible.
As for McCants, are you seriously trying to argue that he was eligible to play college bball on the basis of taking fraudulent classes? That stuff only makes sense on the Tarheel board.
BTW, since the Tarheel board is so full of complete lies and misrepresentations, I figures I would address the McCants issue with a quotation:
McCants said he was headed toward ineligibility during the championship season because he had failed algebra and psychology, which accounted for half of his credits, in the fall of 2004. He had two A's in African-American Studies classes in addition to the F's. He said coach Roy Williams informed him of his academic troubles during a meeting ahead of the spring semester.
"There was a slight panic on my part ... [he] said, you know, we're going to be able to figure out how to make it happen, but you need to buckle down on your academics."
He said Williams told him "we're going to be able to change a class from, you know, your summer session class and swap it out with the class that you failed, just so the GPA could reflect that you are in good standing."
McCants ended up in four African-American Studies classes in the following semester, earning straight A's. He said he didn't know what Williams was getting at with the summer school class replacement reference, and he never talked with Williams about it again. The transcripts show he had received one A in an African-American Studies class in the summer of 2004.
"I remained eligible to finish out and win the championship, his first championship, and everything was peaches and cream," McCants said.
He said he is sure Williams and the athletic department as a whole knew "100 percent" about the paper class system.
This post was edited on 3/10 3:20 PM by preacherfan
https://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11036924/former-north-carolina-basketball-star-rashad-mccants-says-took-sham-classes
McCants said he was headed toward ineligibility during the championship season because he had failed algebra and psychology, which accounted for half of his credits, in the fall of 2004. He had two A's in African-American Studies classes in addition to the F's. He said coach Roy Williams informed him of his academic troubles during a meeting ahead of the spring semester.
"There was a slight panic on my part ... [he] said, you know, we're going to be able to figure out how to make it happen, but you need to buckle down on your academics."
He said Williams told him "we're going to be able to change a class from, you know, your summer session class and swap it out with the class that you failed, just so the GPA could reflect that you are in good standing."
McCants ended up in four African-American Studies classes in the following semester, earning straight A's. He said he didn't know what Williams was getting at with the summer school class replacement reference, and he never talked with Williams about it again. The transcripts show he had received one A in an African-American Studies class in the summer of 2004.
"I remained eligible to finish out and win the championship, his first championship, and everything was peaches and cream," McCants said.
He said he is sure Williams and the athletic department as a whole knew "100 percent" about the paper class system.
This post was edited on 3/10 3:20 PM by preacherfan
https://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11036924/former-north-carolina-basketball-star-rashad-mccants-says-took-sham-classes
I'm not sure what qualifies as hearsay to you. Is the Wainstein report hearsay to you? The answer to your across-the=board question would be half as long as that report, and the only part of the scandal that I have paid attention to relates to AFAM classes.
The daily tar heel has had a couple of decent articles about the matter. Try reading them For example, in January, a DTH article contained the following:
"Ten of the 15 players on the 2005 championship team majored in African and Afro-American Studies - the department at the center of the scandal."
"Mary Willingham, former athletic learning specialist, tweeted in April that five starting players plus a reserve took a combined 69 fake courses in the department."
It is mathematically impossible that the entire 2005 starting 5 was eligible, but you should probably do your own research, so you can sort out the hearsay from the actual documents and those (including willingham) who were first-hand witnesses, as opposed to hearsay witnesses..
This post was edited on 3/10 3:55 PM by MO_Blue
Wheels for heelsFlying Tami Hansborouh around the country to basketball games, Giving her a fund raising job at unc cheatPj Hairston - Unc cheat did not even try to reinstate the kid to avoid many problemssome kid getting $ for mouth guard23 years of AFAM Athletic / academic scandal - in 7 sports not just basketball8 internal investigations before the ncaa finally does an investigation
I have to admit that since this scandal broke, I have loved visiting the Tarheel board. It is pure comedy gold!
Some of their classic posts included:
Peppers got high grades in AFAM because it was a subject he liked. (BTW, he also got an A in Feminist Studies from Boxill)
These were "independent studies" classes.
PJ will be reinstated and the UK board will be in meltdown.
If PJ had done anything wrong, Roy wouldn't be backing him.
And, another personal favorite......McCants was still eligible because he took AFAM in the Spring semester!
Some of their classic posts included:
Peppers got high grades in AFAM because it was a subject he liked. (BTW, he also got an A in Feminist Studies from Boxill)
These were "independent studies" classes.
PJ will be reinstated and the UK board will be in meltdown.
If PJ had done anything wrong, Roy wouldn't be backing him.
And, another personal favorite......McCants was still eligible because he took AFAM in the Spring semester!
MDW,
Good stuff!
That semester alone raises questions about whether the team enjoyed a competitive advantage, simply because players didn't have to attend many classes and were guaranteed high grades. At least five players took three bogus classes each, the Wainstein documents show.
In the preceding semester, fall 2004, the team accounted for nine enrollments in five bogus classes, including one with four players attending. Three players took at least one independent study, the records show.
The Wainstein documents also reveal a friendly relationship between Crowder and Wayne Walden, coach Roy Williams' hand-picked academic counselor for the basketball team.
They show the two working together to get players into the classes and Walden providing tickets and other team freebies to Crowder.
Walden told investigators he was aware that Crowder was grading the papers, but he said he can't recall telling Williams
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article10122626.html#storylink=cpy
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article10122626.html#storylink=cpy
Good stuff!
That semester alone raises questions about whether the team enjoyed a competitive advantage, simply because players didn't have to attend many classes and were guaranteed high grades. At least five players took three bogus classes each, the Wainstein documents show.
In the preceding semester, fall 2004, the team accounted for nine enrollments in five bogus classes, including one with four players attending. Three players took at least one independent study, the records show.
The Wainstein documents also reveal a friendly relationship between Crowder and Wayne Walden, coach Roy Williams' hand-picked academic counselor for the basketball team.
They show the two working together to get players into the classes and Walden providing tickets and other team freebies to Crowder.
Walden told investigators he was aware that Crowder was grading the papers, but he said he can't recall telling Williams
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article10122626.html#storylink=cpy
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article10122626.html#storylink=cpy
Well, we do know UNC has lawyered up and spent a ton of money (and still counting) in an effort to keep it all quiet... for some reason???
I brought up the Rose situation as an example of a case where so much hearsay was out there that most don't know the facts, as was evident here on a thread last week (in addition to the comments made in that thread no one seems to know that even if you take away the SAT scandal Memphis still has to vacate games after early December because they failed to charge a family member for traveling, lodging and food). That is what I'm asking for here, facts. I've heard what McCant's has said but why should I believe him? He's said many crazy things over the years. The only factual evidence he supplied was that he took four AFAM courses the spring semester of the year he left school. Has it been proven that he in fact had tutor(s) write his papers or is that more things he has said. Also, preacher how on earth do those classes make him eligible for the same semester he took them? My interpretation is that he said Roy/UNC changed his transcript after the fall semester to make him eligible for the spring. Has this been shown? Finally, how do you know that the players didn't write their own papers? Isn't that what the NCAA is checking? I've read the emails in the Wainstein report, but those which involve violations come from football and women's basketball, I like everyone else am only interested in men's bb.
Seems all you want to do is argue. The evidence is out there. On the scout board (Pack Pride) there's a downloadable file that contains the entire Wainstein report, including hundreds of emails, many of which are SMOKING GUNS where admins admit putting together 'fictitious' classes for these students, or where they conspire to commit Pell Grant fraud.
Then you look at Roy's statements. He's contradicted himself several times. For example, he claims he had no idea what was going on with his players. But later on he also was quoted as saying that he was troubled by the number of players majoring in AFAM and tried to steer them away from it. Can't have it both ways. This subject has been discussed in great length and you're just coming in at the tail end and nobody wants to take the time to explain it to you because you seem predisposed to defend UNC***.
your interpretation skills are pretty poor if that's how you interpret those statements. he was very clear about ineligibility facing him in the fall. and the two afam classes taken then and the one in the summer. that couldn't be more clear wow.
it has been reported more than once in the last two years about advisors doing the papers. one ( i think two) are on record. is that "shown" enough for you? why would you believe mccants? because his statements exactly follow his academic advisement and records. and no one has questioned those specifics. only his motives. which mean nothing, only the facts as you say and they're all right there. is getting two f's and two a's (in afam where he got all a's lol) not the biggest red flag you've ever seen? and that's just one thing to notice here. why people wouldn't believe him is a better question.
it has been reported more than once in the last two years about advisors doing the papers. one ( i think two) are on record. is that "shown" enough for you? why would you believe mccants? because his statements exactly follow his academic advisement and records. and no one has questioned those specifics. only his motives. which mean nothing, only the facts as you say and they're all right there. is getting two f's and two a's (in afam where he got all a's lol) not the biggest red flag you've ever seen? and that's just one thing to notice here. why people wouldn't believe him is a better question.
Mary Willingham has a book coming out called Cheated. There is another book called Tarnished Heels. Go buy these 2 books and you will know everything you need to know. With all the pr money unc cheat is spending, you can bet your *** they would sue if it was not true. GBB
They failed to charge Rose's brother ONE TIME for his traveling. He paid every single time before that and as soon as it was discovered in an audit, he paid it.
Dude, we saw a paper written by an athlete that was five sentences long that received in A in a college course. We saw the emails trying to place athletes into BS classes and how they sprinkled in regular kids so it didn't bring up any red flags. We saw Julius Peppers and Rashaad McCants' transcripts. You guys have an insane amount of people majoring in a course that turned out to be completely bogus. When seven guys on the same team in 2005 majored in AFAM, that should have been a huge red flag. WHEN BOTH VINCE CARTER AND ANTAWN JAMISON CAME BACK AND GOT THEIR DEGREES IN 'AFAM', that should have been a huge sign that said "Hmm, maybe we should look at this."
It is absolutely comical to hear what Cal gets blasted over while the Duke/UNC group puts their head in the sand and tries to explain away horrendous offenses.
How can you call McCants' statements hearsay when he was directly involved in the scandal? Roy denied those claims but by your logic that would be just hearsay too. Either McCants or Roy is lying and since Roy has more motivation to not tell the truth, I tend to believe McCants.
Why would McCants come out and say he didn't earn his grades? Maybe for money but I can't imagine he got a lot for that interview. I believe him over Roy.
Okay, you apparently didn't go to college, or if you did, you weren't an athlete. To be eligible for any particular semester, an athlete has to be taking classes. He has to take enough course hours to qualify. When I was in college, I had to take 12 hours to be eligible to run cross-country. I know the exact numbers have changed but the basic rule is the same.
Since the classes were bogus, he was nothing more than a semi-pro bball player. He was NOT a student-athlete in any way other than in name. All the NCAA has to do is accept UNC***'s admission that those were bogus classes and accept what SACS has said that those classes can't be counted and BOOM! he is ineligible de facto.
SACS has ruled that those classes are not legit and UNC*** has to offer makeup classes. The NCAA can and should hammer your rears.
Sorry UNC* fans... you don't get to scream out that Cal cheats and is shady and then try to weasel out of this scandal.
Its strange how when it comes to UK and Cal, the term proof is stretched to the point that accusations are proof... then when its UNC basketball on the line Proof is condensed to the point that only a signed confession by Roy Williams counts
Its strange how when it comes to UK and Cal, the term proof is stretched to the point that accusations are proof... then when its UNC basketball on the line Proof is condensed to the point that only a signed confession by Roy Williams counts
No, I went, no need to result to insults, just having a debate here. You implied the four AFAM classes he took in the spring helped keep him eligible. But that is not true. Had he failed everyone one of those classes he still would've have been eligible for the spring semester, correct? How then, would those classes help with his eligibility then? Which leads one to wonder why on earth, after he'd already declared for the draft, anyone would want to cheat to get him four As? He (McCants) said that at the end of the semester he picked up papers that were already written for him and turned them in. Also, I think you're also wrong or at the very least mistaken with what SACS has said. They did not throw those classes out, UNC offered to make it "right" for those who took the classes by giving them the opportunity to come back and take other courses.
I agree with this. UNC and Cal are both just as guilty in the eyes of the NCAA -- that is not at all. What violation has Cal ever been hit with? None. Just like UNC (m bb) has yet to have any violations (in the past 60 years). However, will you still say UNC cheats and is corrupt even after the NCAA rules and nothing happens to their basketball team?
You keep missing the point. Those were not real classes. They were created for the sole purpose of making them look like they were real so players could be eligible. How hard is it to understand that you cannot cannot cannot cannot compare that to taking real classes? McCants was NOT a real student in any sense of the word.
Forget flunking out, which usually happens at the end of a semester in a REAL class. Can a student withdraw from all classes BEFORE he is done with his sport and stay eligible??? NO he can't. He has to be in real classes to be eligible!
As for the A's, UNC*** brags about their APR and must maintain it to stay out of trouble. We lost points when Orton flunked out 2nd semester by not going to classes. UNC***'s APR is taking a hit since the cheating ended. Can you deny that fact?
We can argue about what SACS said but it is clear that they considered the classes bogus. The NCAA has to rule McCants ineligible or they lose all credibility. UNC*** has none left to lose.
No, the classes were "real" classes as students were given credits for taking them, they were listed in the course catalogues, they required work, etc. The problem is that they were characterized as lecture-style courses when in fact they weren't. These are facts that are in the Wainstein report, and all of the other reports prior. Hence, I still don't see how you can say they kept him eligible, when he would have been just as eligible by taking 12 hours of advanced brain surgery and never showed up for anything. If this is the damming evidence surrounding the 05 title team then I don't see how they can do anything.
I don't follow the withdraw argument, why would he withdraw, he simpl had to enroll not do any work?
I didn't know the NCAA was keeping APR regulations then. If not, does it make sense to cheat to get McCant's four As when he doesn't need them?
Finally, yes we can argue what SACS should have done, but I am interested in what the actual facts are, and that is not open for debate, they did not throw out the classes.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and I look forward to hearing from you again.
I don't follow the withdraw argument, why would he withdraw, he simpl had to enroll not do any work?
I didn't know the NCAA was keeping APR regulations then. If not, does it make sense to cheat to get McCant's four As when he doesn't need them?
Finally, yes we can argue what SACS should have done, but I am interested in what the actual facts are, and that is not open for debate, they did not throw out the classes.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and I look forward to hearing from you again.
Has the fact that Cal has never been charged with an NCAA violation prevented fans of other schools from calling him a cheater? Has the fact that we haven't been charged with a violation in over 25 years stopped them from claiming UK is a dirty program? There is documented proof that UNC has been cheating for over 20 years so the school and all the coaches involved, including Dean, should be recognized for the cheaters they are.
Dude, THE CLASS DIDN'T EXIST. PLAYERS WERE GIVEN GRADES FOR WORK THEY DID NOT DO! IT WAS A NO SHOW CLASS!
You guys could justify anything. Do you honestly believe your coaches knew nothing about this systematic effort to cheat and keep guys eligible? Do you really believe you guys did nothing wrong? Pure delusion.
I'm sure you guys have a billion excuses for everything I mentioned earlier too.
Why do you all keep feeding this troll. He doesn't want discussion he just wants to piss everyone off.
Oh, and Bobby go look up the definition of hearsay. I don't think it means what you think it means.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Oh, and Bobby go look up the definition of hearsay. I don't think it means what you think it means.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Wait, when did the NCAA charge UNC basketball with a violation? UNC cheated according to which rules? Can't be the NCAA rules since they've yet to be found in violation of any rules. Of course this could all change. If UNC is not charge with any violations then how can you say "well they cheated but got away with it" yet get mad at others that say "Cal cheated but got away with it"?
Originally posted by TruBluCatFan:
Why do you all keep feeding this troll. He doesn't want discussion he just wants to piss everyone off.
This guy is a troll and must have gone to UNC*** cheat. He just cannot understand what he reads.
For anyone interested, I found UNC*** APR going back to McCants:
In 04-05, UNC*** was at 989. They dropped to 938 in 2012-13
I think below 930 is the danger zone.
This post was edited on 3/10 9:56 PM by preacherfan
http://web1.ncaa.org/maps/aprRelease.jsp
In 04-05, UNC*** was at 989. They dropped to 938 in 2012-13
I think below 930 is the danger zone.
This post was edited on 3/10 9:56 PM by preacherfan
http://web1.ncaa.org/maps/aprRelease.jsp