I really cannot believe we do not have a defensive lineman better than Elam. He is too slow, refuses to engage, and cannot pursue. He is basically a log jam. I did not see one play where he made a serious push and beat his man.
Defensive linemen
- Thread starter LeonThe Camel
- Start date
A log jam is exactly what you need in the middle in our defense, he just isn't creating a big enough one.
Another example of an observation of Elam's poor play and limited abilities and calling it "his job."
NT is not where the problem lies right now. Miggins playing out of position at DT and Bell is what's hurting. Bell doesn't belong on the field. Where's Kengera Daniel?
Agree,but he needs to be able to make a tackle one or two yards either side of said log jam,he hasn't been able to do that as of yet.As someone in another thread said he has to demand the attention of more than one offensive lineman,we haven't seen much of that either. Sacks aren't his game but some tackles around the LOS isn't too much to ask
Okay . . . did you just singularize it? Yes, you did. But Elam is A problem. And he lined up a DT more than just once or twice in the first half. Might actually have been when he played his best . . . before the tub of lard was so gassed that a pair of middle schoolers could stand him up (as if standing him up isn't a geometric given). Miggins only looks out of position in relation to a 400 lb piece of flub because he's attempting to do something Elam rarely does . . . follow the play . . . or maybe REACH FOR A DAMN BALL CARRIER!!!
I actually thought Miggins played pretty well
He played OK but the DL is a huge problem. DE is killing any chance to be even decent. Again, where's Kengera Daniel?
I think a lot of people misunderstand the role of NT in a 3 man front. You simply cannot just "be big, 'command' double teams and clog up the middle". Maybe back in the 70s but not now.
Today's blocking schemes seldom use a double team block. They zone block which really tries to create lateral "seams" in the defensive front rather than knock you off the line "holes". As often as not, a 0 tech simply needs to be sealed from the play side which is easily done in a zone scheme; a combo block with OG or a down block by the play side OG.
To effectively "stop" the run game (any run game) the interior DLs must get penetration; they must "reset" the LOS a yard or so in the offensive backfield. Penetration by the interior DL (and not necessarily every guy on every play) pretty much blows up any inside run and spills the RB laterally where he should be contained by the outside defenders.
I would call any DL aligned between the tackles (0-4 techs, depending on set, maybe even a 5 tech) as an "interior" defensive lineman. In the 4-3 scheme there are always 2 such players, usually a 1 tech and 3 tech. In the 3 man fronts there are 3 such players. The may play different techniques but they almost always line up on or inside the OTs.
But in either case, the "job" of the interior DLs is to get penetration (the right way, not by running out of your gap responsibility) and reset the LOS. The main factor for a DL getting penetration is an explosive charge into the guy blocking him. The quicker you are out of your stance the more likely you are to defeat the block. That is why guys like Suh (NE) and Clowney (SC) were virtually unblockable.
Peace
Today's blocking schemes seldom use a double team block. They zone block which really tries to create lateral "seams" in the defensive front rather than knock you off the line "holes". As often as not, a 0 tech simply needs to be sealed from the play side which is easily done in a zone scheme; a combo block with OG or a down block by the play side OG.
To effectively "stop" the run game (any run game) the interior DLs must get penetration; they must "reset" the LOS a yard or so in the offensive backfield. Penetration by the interior DL (and not necessarily every guy on every play) pretty much blows up any inside run and spills the RB laterally where he should be contained by the outside defenders.
I would call any DL aligned between the tackles (0-4 techs, depending on set, maybe even a 5 tech) as an "interior" defensive lineman. In the 4-3 scheme there are always 2 such players, usually a 1 tech and 3 tech. In the 3 man fronts there are 3 such players. The may play different techniques but they almost always line up on or inside the OTs.
But in either case, the "job" of the interior DLs is to get penetration (the right way, not by running out of your gap responsibility) and reset the LOS. The main factor for a DL getting penetration is an explosive charge into the guy blocking him. The quicker you are out of your stance the more likely you are to defeat the block. That is why guys like Suh (NE) and Clowney (SC) were virtually unblockable.
Peace
kengera daniel plays the same position as miggins. kengera is third on the depth chart behind miggins and bell. middleton is the weak link amongst the starting down lineman.
there is absolutely no depth at any of the three down lineman positions. bell was pretty bad. dubose got knocked five yards off the ball the one play i saw him in. hyde works hard, just not talented enough.
there is absolutely no depth at any of the three down lineman positions. bell was pretty bad. dubose got knocked five yards off the ball the one play i saw him in. hyde works hard, just not talented enough.
Elam is too damn tall for a NT. He physically can't get and stay low for very long. Has very poor technique which I thought the coaches would've fixed by now. Very slow laterally.
Watch films of Richard Jaffe from 1977. That guy was constantly shedding blocks and getting into the backfield. Elam basically never does. Neither do any of our other DL. Not sure why we can't teach some basic technique to our guys but we don't seem to be able to. You ever remember a UK lineman using a swim move or a spin?
Watch films of Richard Jaffe from 1977. That guy was constantly shedding blocks and getting into the backfield. Elam basically never does. Neither do any of our other DL. Not sure why we can't teach some basic technique to our guys but we don't seem to be able to. You ever remember a UK lineman using a swim move or a spin?
Watch the fourth quarter. There is a play with about 3:40 left where the USM running back was trapped then broke free. Elam was late to the play, the whistle had not sounded and he quit. Then the running back broke free and some OL laid him out.
Hit until the whistle sounds.
Elam on average will outweigh most centers by 50 to 60 pounds. He still manages to get pushed back. Its mind boggling. How does a guy that big get no push?
Because he has a terrible stance. He is the last one "down" (offense or defense) and he has no weight on his hands. I spoke of "explosive charge" into the OL in my previous post. He is really in a "low 2 point stance" and cannot explode into the center.
It is tough for a 6'7" guy to get into a good 3 or 4 point stance. I previously thought his immense girth contributed to the problem as well. He looks much slimmer this year but his play is exactly the same as it has been since his first day on campus.
Peace
Losing Meant and Hatcher killed the defense. That forced us to play our backups as starters. Good teams lose starters and their replacements would start for us. Our backups are JV quality. Hardest position to recruit.
yep - right you were. Just disgusting. I guess this is as good a time as any to mention how badly it pisses me off when he tugs his jersey out from under his chest pads before the play has stopped. Annoys me whenever he does it to be honest.
Defensive line may very well be the most difficult recruiting task, but instead of proving just how difficult it is, we have failed miserably. Very likely that we could swap with almost any OVC defensive line recruiting disappointment and see an improvement. Why? Because they would be fit enough to play. Elam is as athletic as a can of Crisco.
My point is that he was close enough to the play to be involved, but he relaxed. He thought the play was over. No whistle sounded and the RB spun out of a tackle and took off.
DL should be mean enough to bash into that pile, but he seemed content to watch.
In his limited action, Hyde did cause a damn fumble which USM recovered, but he still caused a fumble.
Where is there a point that you can see a light at the end of the tunnel for UK's DL play?
NT: Elam, now a Jr, is Mister Cobble v2. He'll play a ton and make no plays at all
Hyde is a Jr and not a good DL
Pringle is a Juco and apparently so bad he can't even play behind those 2
Dubose is a decently rated DL who never can get on the field.
DT: Miggins is not terrible (but probably not even average SEC DL) and he is a Sr
Middleton is a So
Kordell Looney is a Fr
DE: Bell is a disaster to me. He was pushed right thru the entire game vs. So Miss and is a Jr
Kenegra Daniel is a decently rated DL kid and is a So
Calvin Taylor
The hard part is UKs current DL is as bad as any Joker, Brooks, Curry, etc.. ever put out there and they are all upperclassmen. Is our only hope that Kenegra Daniel and Kordell Looney are legit in 2 years? I see no way that group is even close to mediocre DL in 2017...2016 is a total wash IMO.
NT: Elam, now a Jr, is Mister Cobble v2. He'll play a ton and make no plays at all
Hyde is a Jr and not a good DL
Pringle is a Juco and apparently so bad he can't even play behind those 2
Dubose is a decently rated DL who never can get on the field.
DT: Miggins is not terrible (but probably not even average SEC DL) and he is a Sr
Middleton is a So
Kordell Looney is a Fr
DE: Bell is a disaster to me. He was pushed right thru the entire game vs. So Miss and is a Jr
Kenegra Daniel is a decently rated DL kid and is a So
Calvin Taylor
The hard part is UKs current DL is as bad as any Joker, Brooks, Curry, etc.. ever put out there and they are all upperclassmen. Is our only hope that Kenegra Daniel and Kordell Looney are legit in 2 years? I see no way that group is even close to mediocre DL in 2017...2016 is a total wash IMO.
Because hes too tall and on top of that, he plays too high. Leverage rules the day, and either of those things hinder a DL; let alone both.
Heart makes up for lack of talent. Elam played tons of snaps, which shocked me given his post conditioning. But in reality, it was too many snaps. He needs spelled. He already plays too high, and he stands up even more as he gets tired.
Turning point in the Brooks tenure, was a backup, walkon DT recovering a fumble and running it over to Brooks on the sideline. Changed the entire program.
Elam is a RT. John Hendersons are rare.
Bottomline, the recruiting/developing in the front 7 has been bad.
Bottomline, the recruiting/developing in the front 7 has been bad.
Yep. Hes playing the wrong position. I have no inside info, but Im willing to bet Saban wanted Elam as an OL and Stoops promised hed stay at DT/NG. Bet thats how we snagged him.
I noticed Stoops said Pringle will play more against Florida. Not sure if that excites me since hes supposedly worse than Elam. But they gotta try something.
Im sure Elam is better. Hes obviously in better shape. But not to the point where he needs to play anywhere near that many snaps. He needs rest.
Although realistically, none of the defensive players needed to play as many snaps as they did. Lucky we didnt incur any more injuries with that kind of fatigue.
But you can't have Elam playing 70-80 snaps as he did vs SM. Dubose, Taylor and Kengara Daniel need to play too. And Carter if they're not RSing him. Can't build depth by not playing.
I don't understand how the non P5 teams can recruit better lineman than UK has? Shouldn't we be able to be in the bottom 3rd of the SEC in line talent and still have more than USM, WKU, or EKU? We aren't losing many guys early so that can't be the answer.
Last night I was impressed by FSU's true frosh lineman. The kid looked like a veteran at times. I wish Looney could play himself into the rotation.
And if a 6'10" PF came to Cal and said I want to play PG, he would be sat down real quick until he learned to rebound at the PF spot.
Point is, is he there for himself or to help the team. I cannot believe we are better off with him at NT than any where else.
Totally agree. He probably felt like he had to get elam at all costs for recruiting momentum.
Of course, my previous post was all speculation. Just to make that clear
Last edited:
Been thinking this last part for a long time, though I readily admit I'm not a FB x's and o's guy. Just seems like our D-line just attempts to occupy the man in front of them and not much else.
We have been gashed on the defensive line for the last six seasons. Even Bud Dupree and Zadarius Smith couldn't save the ineptitude of our defensive front. The second half Saturday was one of the worst displays I've ever seen and it was against un-ranked Southern Miss.
What's Chubb from UGA or Harris from Alabama going to do to this line? The thought of this defense going down to Tuscaloosa? LOL.
What's Chubb from UGA or Harris from Alabama going to do to this line? The thought of this defense going down to Tuscaloosa? LOL.