De'Niro Laster
- Thread starter screwduke
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I'm wondering why they even put anything about our lackluster pass rush. Seems i've been told here their is no problems with the DL/ LB or the D in many topics on the boards. Maybe you guys who tell me all the time about how great the recruiting and success has been should be writing them and telling them how wrong they are. I mean they are only watching from an unbiased opinion... or maybe they are? hmmm
From a recruiting standpoint, the secondary has been pretty phenomenal. From an every other position on the defense standpoint we still need some work. That's my only beef with Stoops so far. Sure we've had some good players here and there, but we need an across the board upgrade in depth and talent. Again, the secondary is pretty solid and set for a couple of years. Westry is All-American caliber. We need to focus recruiting efforts on the D-line for a couple of years.
It happens between 5 and ten years in. People who think the defense with quality players with quality depth happens with a few recruiting classes must not know the SEC.
The only LB problem I see is youth. Have the talent. Think that will show a few games in.
Agreed. I'm hoping Firios and Walker are healthy and ready to go in time for fall camp. Unfortunately our LB play wasn't that spectacular last season, so showing improvement shouldn't be too difficult to do.
The DL is a major concern but that's a topic for its own thread.
You know that the hardest position to recruit is the OL and DL. There are so darned few of them. Then it takes those guys 2-3 yrs to develop.
Our most suspect groups are those two. We have not been recruiting well enough or long enough to make those SEC or barely Sun Belt worthy from top to bottom. Throw out Stoops' first class that was half his and half Joker's.
Pass rush? What usually hurts us the must is we can't stop the run. Just an opinion.
Yep, consider this...of the likely 8 LBs in the 2-deep, 6 haven't played a down of SEC football.
Not worried about defense. Our defense was actually pretty good last year. The problem was depth. This year we have more depth, unproven, but we have quality young players with potential. If the offense can step up and provide these guys with a breather, we will be more than decent.
We have some big time athletes at backer. Laster is a nice swing player. I can see him playing on the edge and will against power teams. I love Jones but 215 is light it takes a special player to hold up the run at that weight
Your opinion is right. Our lines are the remaining positions of concern on our roster. Our 2016 recruiting class, if they get developed right, should go a long way toward improving our offensive line. But it is incorrect to dismiss the importance of a good pass rush. You have to be able to stop the run, but you have to get pressure on the quarterback too. Both are essential for an effective SEC defense. As for Laster, I watched him in our spring game but I was not impressed. He has outstanding size, but he did not seem to move instinctively for an edge defender. Maybe he was still learning the defense. Maybe he will be better in the fall. But based on what I saw, Laster won't play ahead of Ware or Walker on the edge, and probably won't play ahead of a fully healthy Bonner either. Laster probably ought to be used in the middle.
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Beats me, but i's not that relevant. It's like thinking King is a star because of it.
I agree, but for some reason I'm thinking Kash will be a big run stopper for us this year
I said last two years the dline looked bad because the lbers didn't fill gaps at the los. Khalid actually looked like the best backer at times because he was flying to the ball.... he never should of looked like our best backer in any games.
Youth is a problem and I fully expect to see us all pull our hair out in some games over youthful f'ups... but the talent and "thump" is better this year and it's not even really not debatable anymore. Firios would of played last except for injury, jones did look better as a true freshman at times last year than sr's, laster and love supposedly would of been competing for starting spots last year, and Eli is supposed to be the most athletically gifted backer on our campus since I've been eating solid food.
Youth is a problem and I fully expect to see us all pull our hair out in some games over youthful f'ups... but the talent and "thump" is better this year and it's not even really not debatable anymore. Firios would of played last except for injury, jones did look better as a true freshman at times last year than sr's, laster and love supposedly would of been competing for starting spots last year, and Eli is supposed to be the most athletically gifted backer on our campus since I've been eating solid food.
We'll it's settled then were gonna be awesome on D. I've been waiting years for this.
If you watched the spring game, and some that say they did evidently didn't, then you would know that Laster had to play a position he hadn't been practicing due to other guys being held out. Laster worked at Jack LB all spring behind Ware and also got some time at Sam LB behind Allen. Those are both outside or edge LB spots for us. Instead, he was forced to play inside at Will LB and did OK but not knowing the position very well, he was tentative in many instances.
I expect him to be a valuable asset this fall as he is versatile and has some skills coming off the edge as a pass rusher while being a solid contributor in stopping the run.
How long have you been eating solid food? I hope he is as good as Forrest, Williamson is in the NFL, Tre was VERY fast and is still with the big boys, Woodman was VERY good and still playing, I also hope he is just as good as Kelly, all since probation.
But I have heard good things about him, I hope you are right. You put him in pretty good company IMO.
Being athletic and skilled are different things. All our guys are going to be green and make learning mistakes. But from a size, speed and strength measure I stand by my statement. Trevathian and Woodyard were great players but a bit undersized. Forest was fast but weak physically. Williamson was a step slow from being great but had everything else down pat.
All good, glad to see you have him with such a high ceiling, and I am sure you know more about him than I do, all my info is second hand. And yes, from what I have read he does have a very high ceiling, I will just be delighted in he is good enough to be NFL worthy. I think he played a lot of QB his senior year, which says something. Our starting QB in high school was all conference and also a very good full time LB on D------but that was a long time ago.
I think offense was recruited well and is much higher on talent level than it has been on many years. I don't mind how the defense has progressed, though, because I do see improvement. It started with the secondary, we're hearing rumbles and saw flashes last season that the linebackers are getting it together, and the D-line, while lackluster compared to the big boys in the SEC, is serviceable (Elam and Meant can mess some people up) with limited depth and experience.
Not sure why people are upset about the defensive line and linebackers not living up to their standards when it's tough to recruit and develop that talent. This is especially true when starting with so little SEC talent and changing schemes from a 4-3 to a 3-4. You can't play the same guys in those defenses. You have to recruit to get max effectiveness.
Not sure why people are upset about the defensive line and linebackers not living up to their standards when it's tough to recruit and develop that talent. This is especially true when starting with so little SEC talent and changing schemes from a 4-3 to a 3-4. You can't play the same guys in those defenses. You have to recruit to get max effectiveness.
Laster is big, did not seem to play instinctively. Not slow for his size, but not quick either. Seems to be still adjusting. Probably needs to play in the middle. I don't think any of our inside defenders played very well in the spring game. I expect Love and Laster to be better in the fall.
I believe the defense will get better as the season progresses. A step behind SEC skill players means you are burnt. I'm hoping as these players gain experience, we'll see that the LBers aren't a "step behind" in coverage and gap assignments and the defense improves accordingly.
Our defense is bound to get better as the season progresses. In September, we will start a rebuilt front 7. Most likely, 3 of our 7 starters upfront have never played in an SEC game before, and another 1 is a former juco who only played very sparingly last year. And with so many brand new players like Courtney Love, Kash Daniel, Kobie Walker, Nico Firios, Eli Brown, Jordan Bonner, DeNiro Laster, Kengera Daniel, Naquez Pringle, it's going to take some time.
But your list does make the future look a lot brighter. Not just very good raw talent but increasing experience. Hell, they may even make our coaches look better.
I can't tell if your comment is tongue in cheek or serious. I have said on other threads and will say it again, I believe 2016 is another rebuilding year for Kentucky football, with 4 or 5 wins depending on if we beat Southern Miss in our opener. The breakout year for Stoops will be 2017, when he will have 19-20 starters and both kickers back. I know mine isn't the popular point of view here, and I am sure most people on this board will be screaming for Stoops' firing 6 months from now if I am right. But Stoops isn't on the hot seat, and won't be fired. I think 2017 can be a real important headline year for Kentucky football.
He may not be on the hot seat, but his ability to lead this football program should seriously be questioned if your prediction becomes true. No coach should be in "rebuilding mode" four years into his tenure. If year 4 is rebuilding, what are years 1-3? No Joker excuse will hold up at this point. The team is his. The failures may not be enough to get him fired, but at this point there must be some kind of accountability. Yes Stoops walked into a disaster, but he has been given more than any UK coach before him in terms of salary, length of contract, facilities, administrative support, etc. From a purely business standpoint (and when I say this please remove all emotion out of the argument), you can't be given all these things and return a 4-8/5-7 record in year 4 with a "this is a rebuilding year" label.
So the question then becomes, what do you do with the situation if you are Mitch if Stoops gives you 4-8/5-7 in year 4? Short of firing Elliot and scaling back Stoops' ability to hire his own assistants, I'm not sure what can be done. No HC will stand for that. Honestly, I'm not sure what can be done.
To answer your question, Barnhart will support Stoops, just as he supported Rich Brooks. You can question Stoops' leadership if you want, but your conclusions are arbitrary. There is no rule that a coach can't rebuild for 4 years. If it's necessary, then that's what you do. Our fans wanted to run off Rich Brooks in 2005. LOL! A run of 5 straight bowls began in 2006. So that was bright, wasn't it? Stoops is under contract through Kentucky's 2020 season. The school is on the hook for the entire contract. The time to worry about a coach is when he struggles with recruiting for multiple years. Stoops is the most successful recruiter anyone can remember at Kentucky. In 2015, Stoops' 2014 recruiting class was still sophomores and redshirt freshmen, but some of our fans were already giving up on them. That's a failure on the fans' end. Stoops' 2016 and 2017 classes are his best yet. Stoops isn't on the hot seat, and isn't going anywhere. If you want to give up on him, go ahead.
Never said I wanted to give up on Stoops. But you have to evaluate the situation fairly. If the 4-8/5-7 prediction comes true, it simply cannot be ignored because we're recruiting well. How many coaches are good recruiters and yet can't win? Look at Mark Richt! Top 10 classes at Georgia and a decade without any type of championship. Now I understand we are not on Georgia's level and would love to have the results/recruiting classes they did, but my point is that of accountability. You cannot remove Stoops' accountability on the fact that he recruits well. If that's the case make him a recruiter and not a head coach.
In the words of Bill Parcells, you are what your record says you are.
Well stated. People may not want to accept the reality but Stoops is being evaluated now. He doesn't have 15 to 20 years to "dig out of the hole Joker created". The Joker excuses are no longer valid. This is Stoops' team now and he must win. We have a legit path to 6 wins and a possibility of 2 more in Miss State and UL. 6 wins is a really low bar. It's not like most of Stoops supporters are saying as if we are trying to expect him to catch Bama in just 4 years. Just beat Vandy. How many years does it take to catch them? If we just beat Vandy consistently Stoops is already a success. If we could protect sizable leads against UL we are already coming off 2 consecutive bowls. We will go to bowls or not go to bowls based on Barker, Elam, Boom, Baker, etc. Not a single one of those names is a Joker guy. We will win or not win based on things Stoops has brought in. Nothing Joker did is a factor now.
Parcells and Stoops are 2 different people in 2 different situations. Stoops is recruiting high school players and trying to build a successful SEC football program at a school that has struggled over the tenures of multiple athletics directors. Whether or not fans have patience for it, this takes time. Stoops is under contract through the 2020 season, and the school is on the hook for his full contract. Barnhart will support Stoops. In 2017, Stoops will being back 19-20 incumbent starters plus both kickers. That will be the time to begin passing judgment on the on field play. Until then, informed Kentucky football fans should be able to take satisfaction in the fact that Stoops is outrecruiting every previous Kentucky football coach.
I don't disagree on a lot of what you say. I understand how long the contract is and how much UK is on the hook for. And Mitch can still support Stoops while evaluating him fairly. In my opinion a fair evaluation means you should not be in "rebuilding" mode on your 4th year. That doesn't mean you should be winning championships, but you should not be rebuilding. It should be steady, tangible progress in the form of wins and losses. Again, you are what your record says you are. If you go 4-8 after two 5-7 seasons, or again go for 5-7 that doesn't reflect well on a coach.
Then again these are all hypothetical scenarios. A 6-6 record renders this discussion moot. But this is what us fans on message board do. We analyze 100 different scenarios, when in the end only one will come to pass.
Rebuilding takes as long as it takes. That sounds obvious, and it really is. There are no official time limits, but you have to show progress and keep moving in the right direction. When Stoops took over in December, 2012, our roster wasn't even good enough to match up with Western Kentucky. That's what Stoops inherited. That's a fact. Now Stoops has beaten South Carolina twice and Missouri once, and his 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes are his best yet. That's clear progress, but there is much farther to go. I just don't see us winning 6 games against our 2016 schedule with a new quarterback and an inexperienced defensive front 7. I highly doubt the school will be moved by the usual complaining and crying that will follow from fans. The school understands some of these people will never be satisfied. No matter how many games Stoops wins, something will always be wrong. But in 1 way, I am not very different from you. Like you, I want results. If I am reading correctly, the difference between us seems to be that I am willing to wait until Stoops' 2014 recruits are juniors and seniors before I pass judgment. If Stoops can't post impressive results in 2017, with 19-20 returning starters and both kickers coming back, then I will change my tune and express my own criticisms. But I think 2017 will be Stoops' breakout season. Until then, I am satisfied with Stoops' recruiting, and I am sure Barnhart will give him a chance to develop his recruits. Whatever concerns I may have along the way, I have been honest about them.
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Not tongue in cheek at all, but I do think we will be a lot better this year also.
I think we will be better by November, but the improvement won't be reflected in our 2016 record. In 2017, the improvement will be considerably steeper, and it will be reflected in our record.
Several references to Stoops recruiting, which has been amazing, but I'd remind all that other SEC teams didn't stop recruiting just because UK decided to start. Still a hill to climb.
Very true. My only comment is the defense is the most difficult part of rebuilding especially defensive linemen.
We had a superior roster compared to wky back then. Remember wky had just gone from Div II to Div 1, the difference is the coaches. They coach up their poorly rated recruits into performing at the peak of their abilities. If we played them last season they would have slaughtered us then as well. Last season I posted up what their staff looks like, they had a staff that looked like it belonged in the SEC. I posted ours and half our staff looked like it belonged in the AAC. Around half their team is from the state of Ky others from the south sprinkled in.
I just find it amusing that it's going to take 2 decades to Stoops to develop this roster. To me as a head coach Stoops should be putting together a staff that is top notch and one that develops these guys into supurior players like what WKY does.
With the hiring of Thomas, Gran and Hinshaw that is a step in the right direction.
I've stated many times on these boards on how I haven't been impressed with the OL play and DL play and I've been told how awesome of coaches we have that are recruiting lights out and putting all these guys in the pros but yet our play is terrible. WKY brings in guys nobody has heard of and they are performing.