Depth

[Secho99]

In some ways, I’m not worried about depth because having a tight 8-man rotation to rely on isn’t a bad thing for consistency/chemistry. The group is playing pretty well together and everyone seems to understand how they fit in.

But it worries me in the sense that we’re one injury away from trouble. And given the grind of the B1G season I’m concerned that getting banged up is inevitable, or even that the team will just hit a bit of a wall in February.

If we get injury luck and Boo/Chase TOs and team 2pt shooting regress to the mean, there could be postseason ball for this team. But we all know the 8-game losing streak could crop up too. It’s at least going to be an interesting ride, though.

 

[GatoLouco]

I don’t quite understand how this comes up every year as such a big concern. The numbers point to us dispersing minutes more than the average team. And yet, every year we hear about it.

Worry about Audige getting hurt. Worry about Boo getting hurt. Those would be catastrophic scenarios for us. Even if the excessive Boo criticism is another mind-boggling, always coming up, topic around here.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I don’t quite understand how this comes up every year as such a big concern. The numbers point to us dispersing minutes more than the average team. And yet, every year we hear about it.

Worry about Audige getting hurt. Worry about Boo getting hurt. Those would be catastrophic scenarios for us. Even if the excessive Boo criticism is another mind-boggling, always coming up, topic around here.

There are a lot of excessive mind-boggling topics. No surprise there.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I don’t quite understand how this comes up every year as such a big concern. The numbers point to us dispersing minutes more than the average team. And yet, every year we hear about it.

Worry about Audige getting hurt. Worry about Boo getting hurt. Those would be catastrophic scenarios for us. Even if the excessive Boo criticism is another mind-boggling, always coming up, topic around here.

Its funny. I have been a critic of Beran in years past, because his numbers indicated that he wasn't playing well enough to merit the minutes he was getting. He has slowly improved.

but.... if Beran gets hurt, Collins will have to play Hunger at that position. If Verhoeven gets hurt, Hunger will get those minutes too. If Nicholson gets hurt, its Hunger.

if BUIE gets hurt we have only Audige to handle the ball and I think we'd be in big trouble.

If Audige, Barnhizer, Roper or Berry gets hurt, we're fine.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

I don’t quite understand how this comes up every year as such a big concern. The numbers point to us dispersing minutes more than the average team. And yet, every year we hear about it.

Worry about Audige getting hurt. Worry about Boo getting hurt. Those would be catastrophic scenarios for us. Even if the excessive Boo criticism is another mind-boggling, always coming up, topic around here.

This is PTSD from Coble breaking his foot and then quitting the team, Shurna getting a concussion and never being the same, and losing Crawford and Jershon Cobb for an entire season. Before we finally made the tournament it seemed as if every year something happened to our best player and we lost them for 20+ games. We have more depth under Collins and not the same reliance on top-end stars (Shurna and Crawford are 1 and 2 all time NU leading scorers) as the Carmody regime.

 

[Username Not Available]

Ah the what-could-have-beens had Coble played that year...

 

[Titanium999]

This is PTSD from Coble breaking his foot and then quitting the team, Shurna getting a concussion and never being the same, and losing Crawford and Jershon Cobb for an entire season. Before we finally made the tournament it seemed as if every year something happened to our best player and we lost them for 20+ games. We have more depth under Collins and not the same reliance on top-end stars (Shurna and Crawford are 1 and 2 all time NU leading scorers) as the Carmody regime.

Exactly

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Its funny. I have been a critic of Beran in years past, because his numbers indicated that he wasn't playing well enough to merit the minutes he was getting. He has slowly improved.

but.... if Beran gets hurt, Collins will have to play Hunger at that position. If Verhoeven gets hurt, Hunger will get those minutes too. If Nicholson gets hurt, its Hunger.

if BUIE gets hurt we have only Audige to handle the ball and I think we'd be in big trouble.

If Audige, Barnhizer, Roper or Berry gets hurt, we're fine.

Why are we fine if Audige is hurt? He's the best player on the team

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Why are we fine if Audige is hurt? He's the best player on the team

We aren’t fine if Audige gets hurt!

 

[Secho99]

I don’t quite understand how this comes up every year as such a big concern. The numbers point to us dispersing minutes more than the average team. And yet, every year we hear about it.

Worry about Audige getting hurt. Worry about Boo getting hurt. Those would be catastrophic scenarios for us. Even if the excessive Boo criticism is another mind-boggling, always coming up, topic around here.

To be clear, I think we’re in decent shape with an 8-man rotation. Going deeper than that is not necessary and many good teams only go 7-8 deep. I actually prefer it to trying to cycle in 11 guys.

I just feel we aren’t well-equipped to deal with a disruption, and that’s why my expectations are tempered. I’d love to see these 8 guys play all 19 remaining B1G games, go 10-9 and get a shot in March. I’m not trying to be down on the situation, but it’s tenuous (like it is for many teams that rely on a tight rotation).

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I'm saying Audige, Roper, Berry and Barnhizer are similar enough that losing one guy from that group is not a big problem.

Other guys are harder to replace.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I think Audige is quite a bit more advanced than any of the other 3 and I like those other 3.

 

[1830 Sherman]

Losing Audige would be a catastrophe to this team. He's been playing consistently at a very high level, game-in and -out, unlike anybody else.

 

[NUCat320]

Eight is the right number to use. I just wish that Hunger were among the eight.

Audige would be the toughest loss, just because he’s been the best player.

Boo would be a huge loss, because Audige would be stretched as a full-time PG. He’s been excellent as a backup.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Eight is the right number to use. I just wish that Hunger were among the eight.

Audige would be the toughest loss, just because he’s been the best player.

Boo would be a huge loss, because Audige would be stretched as a full-time PG. He’s been excellent as a backup.

For the Cats to really step up this season, Hunger has to displace Verhoeven as Nicholson's backup. If Hunger can play well enough to be Collins' first option off the bench for both Beran and Nicholson, everything looks better.

But we haven't seen much of Hunger at the 4 so far... and we need him to play that position occasionally because Barnhizer is too small to regularly play there. It just doesn't seem like that is on Collins' radar.

Audige has two years of being a below average Big Ten player. Hopefully he plays better this year when we get into January. There are some positive signs on shot selection. But I fear the 7 turnover games against better defenders.

 

[SDakaGordie]

For the Cats to really step up this season, Hunger has to displace Verhoeven as Nicholson's backup. If Hunger can play well enough to be Collins' first option off the bench for both Beran and Nicholson, everything looks better.

But we haven't seen much of Hunger at the 4 so far... and we need him to play that position occasionally because Barnhizer is too small to regularly play there. It just doesn't seem like that is on Collins' radar.

Audige has two years of being a below average Big Ten player. Hopefully he plays better this year when we get into January. There are some positive signs on shot selection. But I fear the 7 turnover games against better defenders.

There’s no reason this has to happen. Don’t you ever consider defense in your analyses? Verhoeven is SO much of a better defender than Hunger. Collins can see that and you cannot.

Audige had 3 TOs against Pitt; he’s had 1 in each of the other tougher games on our schedule. Why would he average 7 in BIG play??

 

[Titanium999]

To be clear, I think we’re in decent shape with an 8-man rotation. Going deeper than that is not necessary and many good teams only go 7-8 deep. I actually prefer it to trying to cycle in 11 guys.

I just feel we aren’t well-equipped to deal with a disruption, and that’s why my expectations are tempered. I’d love to see these 8 guys play all 19 remaining B1G games, go 10-9 and get a shot in March. I’m not trying to be down on the situation, but it’s tenuous (like it is for many teams that rely on a tight rotation).

Where would Nance and Young fit into this 9-2 top 40 ranked team’s rotation?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

There’s no reason this has to happen. Don’t you ever consider defense in your analyses? Verhoeven is SO much of a better defender than Hunger. Collins can see that and you cannot.

Audige had 3 TOs against Pitt; he’s had 1 in each of the other tougher games on our schedule. Why would he average 7 in BIG play??

Why are you so angry?

What is so upsetting that I want Hunger to play well and develop quickly? It would help the team, obviously.

Audige is handling the ball more this year and his turnovers are up to 2.8 per game (from 1.3 last season).
He has had a 7 turnover game in each of the last 2 seasons.
In his first season with NU, he turned the ball over 37 times in our final 10 Big Ten games as the league adjusted to his playing style.
Last year he had only 46 assists and only 32 turnovers - he wasn't being asked to run the offense.

He's just not a point guard.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

For the Cats to really step up this season, Hunger has to displace Verhoeven as Nicholson's backup. If Hunger can play well enough to be Collins' first option off the bench for both Beran and Nicholson, everything looks better.

But we haven't seen much of Hunger at the 4 so far... and we need him to play that position occasionally because Barnhizer is too small to regularly play there. It just doesn't seem like that is on Collins' radar.

Audige has two years of being a below average Big Ten player. Hopefully he plays better this year when we get into January. There are some positive signs on shot selection. But I fear the 7 turnover games against better defenders.

How can you complain about the way Audige has played this year? If Audige was a below average B1G player last year, we had a whole roster full of them

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

How can you complain about the way Audige has played this year? If Audige was a below average B1G player last year, we had a whole roster full of them

Where did I complain about the way Audige is playing this year?

 

[Username Not Available]

Meh, Hunger doesn't need to do much beyond getting better and being ready to be a backup next year. That's really the point of Verhoeven imho. Giving Hunger a chance to learn without being in the crucible and being prepared in case Matt hasn't learned to not foul every few possession in B1G play.

It would be just smashing if Hunger took a big leap forward this year, but I don't think it's necessary for the team's success at this point.

 

[benoitdenizetl]

Meh, Hunger doesn't need to do much beyond getting better and being ready to be a backup next year. That's really the point of Verhoeven imho. Giving Hunger a chance to learn without being in the crucible and being prepared in case Matt hasn't learned to not foul every few possession in B1G play.

It would be just smashing if Hunger took a big leap forward this year, but I don't think it's necessary for the team's success at this point.

It will be necessary this year when either Big Matt or Verhoeven misses games with an injury or the flu. We’re potentially in big trouble if/when there’s an injury among our big men.

 

[Max_Power]

Why are you so angry?

What is so upsetting that I want Hunger to play well and develop quickly? It would help the team, obviously.

Audige is handling the ball more this year and his turnovers are up to 2.8 per game (from 1.3 last season).
He has had a 7 turnover game in each of the last 2 seasons.
In his first season with NU, he turned the ball over 37 times in our final 10 Big Ten games as the league adjusted to his playing style.
Last year he had only 46 assists and only 32 turnovers - he wasn't being asked to run the offense.

He's just not a point guard.

Against UIC, Collins rotated Buie and Audige more in the second half (2-3 minute shifts), keeping one of them on the floor at almost all times. He has primarily gone to 5 minute rotations on the two bigs like he did last year. The two big improvements are the defense by the bigs and the overall quality of the top 8 with Roper and Barnhizer playing better. Also, in the last two games it has been a bit of rising tide lifts all boats scenario where all of the guys seem to believe and have been playing better.

I thought Verhoeven had his best game against UIC. Collins is also clearly working on plays at the offense end for Nicholson. I think the mindset with Hunger is to develop him for emergencies because they know he is going to have to play meaningful minutes in the Big Ten because there is no way that Big Ten refs won't get Nicholson and Verhoeven into foul trouble in the same game at some point.

First two games at home next week are so huge for this teams growing confidence.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Why are you so angry?

What is so upsetting that I want Hunger to play well and develop quickly? It would help the team, obviously.

Audige is handling the ball more this year and his turnovers are up to 2.8 per game (from 1.3 last season).
He has had a 7 turnover game in each of the last 2 seasons.
In his first season with NU, he turned the ball over 37 times in our final 10 Big Ten games as the league adjusted to his playing style.
Last year he had only 46 assists and only 32 turnovers - he wasn't being asked to run the offense.

He's just not a point guard.

As I have consistently done, I am here to defend Collins in your presence when needed. And since well over half of your comments literally try to invent something he isn’t doing well or take credit away from him, I chime in to try to attain a more balanced perspective.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Where did I complain about the way Audige is playing this year?

Ok, my bad, you complained about last year and I believe Audige was NOT a below average Big Ten player last year. I know you will cite some offensive stats to debunk my opinion, but the man was at LEAST average while being banged up most of the year. If Audige has a 7 turn over game it will be because he is one of the few guys on this team generating open looks and the ball is always in his hands. His defense is close to elite. I don’t know how that equates to a below average Big Ten player the last two seasons.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Ok, my bad, you complained about last year and I believe Audige was NOT a below average Big Ten player last year. I know you will cite some offensive stats to debunk my opinion, but the man was at LEAST average while being banged up most of the year. If Audige has a 7 turn over game it will be because he is one of the few guys on this team generating open looks and the ball is always in his hands. His defense is close to elite. I don’t know how that equates to a below average Big Ten player the last two seasons.

There are a lot of problems with the program. Chase Audige isn't one of them

 

[TheC]

It will be necessary this year when either Big Matt or Verhoeven misses games with an injury or the flu. We’re potentially in big trouble if/when there’s an injury among our big men.

Yes, because eventually Morgana the Kissing Bandit will strike and give one of our guys mono. It happens to NU basketball every year!

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Ok, my bad, you complained about last year and I believe Audige was NOT a below average Big Ten player last year. I know you will cite some offensive stats to debunk my opinion, but the man was at LEAST average while being banged up most of the year. If Audige has a 7 turn over game it will be because he is one of the few guys on this team generating open looks and the ball is always in his hands. His defense is close to elite. I don’t know how that equates to a below average Big Ten player the last two seasons.

We have had that discussion. I should correct myself a bit though - the measuring stick was always "above or below average for a Big Ten starter." Audige's offense was bad last year. Offense is somewhat easy to quantify. Last year Audige was our least efficient scorer of the 10 guys who played regularly. That would be okay if he didn't shoot much, but he was second on the team in shots in conference games, behind Buie, ahead of Nance.

Hubert Davis (UNC head coach) tells his players that a missed shot is like a turnover. While that overstates the reality of the situation, it indicates how "efficiency" has become the standard for evaluating a player/team on offense. Defense is more difficult to evaluate, the box score stats don't tell the real story - although steals and blocked shots are an indication of a good defender - there's just so much missing information.

Most people acknowledge that when a defense is playing man but doing a lot of switching, defense is more of a team effort than an individual effort. Collins alluded to that in an interview recently "if there's a weak link, your opponent will find it." There are so many things that go into evaluating a defender - does he gamble a lot? Does he go for steals, double guys, leave his man, try to help? Is he late closing out on 3's? Does he get screened easily? The box score statistics don't tell you that stuff.

Thats a major reason that I like to look at the +/- numbers and the points we score and allow when players are in the game. Defense shows up there in a brutally unbiased way.

So far this season, Audige's offense has improved. I hope it continues to be significantly better than last year. But I will be more optimistic when we play Big Ten teams and Audige's improvement holds up.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

As I have consistently done, I am here to defend Collins in your presence when needed. And since well over half of your comments literally try to invent something he isn’t doing well or take credit away from him, I chime in to try to attain a more balanced perspective.

Balanced? When you openly state your purpose as "I am here to defend Collins?" Thats the definition of biased.

I continue to root for Collins to improve as a coach. He's done a lot of things that were not successful the last couple years. But the Lowery hire seems to have changed our direction. We'll see.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Balanced? When you openly state your purpose as "I am here to defend Collins?" Thats the definition of biased.

I continue to root for Collins to improve as a coach. He's done a lot of things that were not successful the last couple years. But the Lowery hire seems to have changed our direction. We'll see.

Baloney, mate. I am just responding to your unbalanced posts. I’m not proactively proselytizing for Collins.

 

[DaCat]

Baloney, mate. I am just responding to your unbalanced posts. I’m not proactively proselytizing for Collins.

How much does Chris pay you?

 

[SDakaGordie]

There’s no price for having so much fun!

 

[hdhntr1]

Ah the what-could-have-beens had Coble played that year...

But we got that monkey off our back years ago

 

[hdhntr1]

We have had that discussion. I should correct myself a bit though - the measuring stick was always "above or below average for a Big Ten starter." Audige's offense was bad last year. Offense is somewhat easy to quantify. Last year Audige was our least efficient scorer of the 10 guys who played regularly. That would be okay if he didn't shoot much, but he was second on the team in shots in conference games, behind Buie, ahead of Nance.

Hubert Davis (UNC head coach) tells his players that a missed shot is like a turnover. While that overstates the reality of the situation, it indicates how "efficiency" has become the standard for evaluating a player/team on offense. Defense is more difficult to evaluate, the box score stats don't tell the real story - although steals and blocked shots are an indication of a good defender - there's just so much missing information.

Most people acknowledge that when a defense is playing man but doing a lot of switching, defense is more of a team effort than an individual effort. Collins alluded to that in an interview recently "if there's a weak link, your opponent will find it." There are so many things that go into evaluating a defender - does he gamble a lot? Does he go for steals, double guys, leave his man, try to help? Is he late closing out on 3's? Does he get screened easily? The box score statistics don't tell you that stuff.

Thats a major reason that I like to look at the +/- numbers and the points we score and allow when players are in the game. Defense shows up there in a brutally unbiased way.

So far this season, Audige's offense has improved. I hope it continues to be significantly better than last year. But I will be more optimistic when we play Big Ten teams and Audige's improvement holds up.

And he played hurt all last year. We had no alternatives so he had to play.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

In some ways, I’m not worried about depth because having a tight 8-man rotation to rely on isn’t a bad thing for consistency/chemistry. The group is playing pretty well together and everyone seems to understand how they fit in.

But it worries me in the sense that we’re one injury away from trouble. And given the grind of the B1G season I’m concerned that getting banged up is inevitable, or even that the team will just hit a bit of a wall in February.

If we get injury luck and Boo/Chase TOs and team 2pt shooting regress to the mean, there could be postseason ball for this team. But we all know the 8-game losing streak could crop up too. It’s at least going to be an interesting ride, though.

We’re a bubble team. Thus, we’re very sensitive to any loss of a significant contributor. I’m just trying to enjoy this incredibly surprising season while keeping my hopes in control entering this February schedule.