The cop was a prick. Sure, she gave a little attitude. But he treated her like Al Qaeda. It was a traffic stop that went out of hand when he asked her to put out her cigarette in her car. Then tries to say she instigated the entire thing? I've been on the side of the cops since the entire debate got started, but this one is difficult to side with.
Did anyone watch the complete dashcam from Sandra Bland arrest?
- Thread starter MountaineerWV
- Start date
I haven't watched the video but read about it. There seems to be a common theme in a lot of these instances. People get stopped for minor things, don't follow the officer's orders and things escalate out of control quickly. I don't know if it's happening more than it used to, or if we're just seeing more of it because of video cameras being so ubiquitous. Part of me thinks that this isn't unusual, but that what has become unusual is that the police report of the incident isn't simply taken as gospel because there is competing video evidence.
Honestly, cops routinely violate people's civil rights in traffic stops. You can do everything that you have a legal right to do, and not do things you have a legal right not to, but they will sometimes go batshit because you aren't obeying their every command. Even those that they know they have no legal right to make.
My personal thoughts are that there might not be enough screening in the first place, and then perhaps not enough continuous screening for things like PTSD and such. I've never been a cop, so I can only imagine what they deal with every day, day in and day out, and I can't imagine that eventually it doesn't have an effect and lead to things like this.
In front of the cop is not the place to stand up for your civil rights. Let the situation play out, follow the orders, and if your civil rights were violated and you capture it, file charges.
Your last paragraph is the only thing that makes sense. The officer is not going to stand and argue/debate the situation for an extended period of time.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/21/sandra-bland-jail-video/30460631/
Here is the link for the video. Judge for yourself whether it deserved being pulled out of the car? I respect officers. They have a difficult jobs. But, they aren't perfect either...
Here is the link for the video. Judge for yourself whether it deserved being pulled out of the car? I respect officers. They have a difficult jobs. But, they aren't perfect either...
Seems that you have to be stupid. If you are in WV, you are going to get your *** kicked every time you get stopped just for being a smart ***. Would be easier to comply and move along. If you feel violated, get an atty.
So we should have Gestapo type law enforcement out there? We should be fearful for minor traffic stops? Respect is great, but still...
Gestapo huh? I think you should do a little reading on the Gestapo and see if that is a valid comparison. But hey, that's just me. As I have said multiple times. It's much much easier to just be polite and compliant.
They don't have a right to search your vehicle without either 1) probable cause or 2) a warrant. They must tell you if you are being detained or not and if you are being arrested, they must tell you what you are being arrested for. You should know your rights and you should assert them in a polite and respectful manner.
You are correct, and if they do any of that without PC or a warrant, anything they find would be inadmissible. Traffic stops are one area where I will never under any circumstances argue with a cop. You don't assert your rights. You ask questions. Excuse me sir, why was I pulled over/detained/etc.? Sir, would you mine showing me a copy of the warrant to read? Not "I didn't do nothing wrong" or "You have no right to search my vehicle".
While that should be respected by the officer making the stop, it may or may not.
There's a video someplace of somebody being stopped. You only have to roll your window down enough to be able to communicate with the officer, this person followed this all along. The cops then pulled a drug sniffing dog that scratched the hell out of the guy's car and the officers kept saying the dog had a hit, when it didn't.
That's only one incident of course ... but it seems that cops sometimes count on people not knowing their rights and then get upset when they do know their rights and exercise them.
There is the ideal and there is reality. You will make things harder for yourself (or potentially get yourself killed) if you are counting on the ideal and don't accept the reality.
Hopefully some of this will invoke a change, but until then ....
Years ago the State Police were doing a survey on a road in Morgantown. They stopped my father in law and a trooper approached and leaned into the window with his hands on the car. My father in law told the trooper to remove his hands from the car and also refused to do the survey. No problem.
I encourage you to do what you feel is best and right. My prior engagements with WV State Troopers didn't work well for me
Did you watch this video? This cop, this instance, was wrong. She wasn't very compliant, but how many people are when pulled over by a cop and not knowing why you were pulled over. Then you ask why you were pulled over, and he's non-compliant and being an ***.
I agree. Arguing is not going to make it better. However, from my viewing this video and my own personal experiences, simply asking "why" or "what did I do" isn't too much to ask a cop, is it? I'm all for being compliant, but if I wasn't speeding or I did not know what I did wrong, before being "compliant" with "lawful requests" (for instance, this cop was saying him asking her to put out her cigarette in her car and her refusal was disobeying) I'd like to know what I did.
I would have been more polite than she was (and I'm certainly not saying her ultimate death was her fault, completely agree that the officer was an ***), but I read somewhere that she asked FOURTEEN times why she was being arrested with not ONE response.
Agreed. She could have been nicer. But she was aggravated. As we all would be. And to compound that, and no doubt ON PURPOSE, the cop refused to tell her what the problem was.
I've spoken to city cops before (friendly conversation). When they stop you, they said they actually want it to escalate a bit because simply writing you a ticket for speeding will not get the city/county much (or any) money. So, the more infractions they can put on a ticket, the more money.
The cop was totally out of line. She did argue but he should have realized what he was dealing with and handled it better.
People, you are going to lose, dammit. You never know what kinda day the officer is having. Maybe something at home has him upset. Superior may have gotten onto him pretty hard earlier. Prior stop may have been an even bigger *******.
Now, you are going to question him or challenge him. He may be in the wrong, but he has a variety of powers that you probably don't want him to use. Lastly, he has a firearm on his side, and he simply is not going to let you win. Think - count to ten - or whatever you use as a buffer. You are going to lose at least 99 % of the time.
Get an atty to handle your grevience/
So, you are saying that these cops are allowed to have "bad days"? Well, pardon me for calling ******** to that. Why? Because, they aren't your "normal" citizen. As you stated, they have weapons with them. So, their wife argued with them, a supervisor said something to them, traffic was bad coming in to work, all things that can affect everyone of us. But NONE of those SHOULD affect the cop for the reasons I stated. They have WEAPONS that can KILL.
Maybe it's the cops who should be more compliant at times like this? When pulling over the lady, he asked her a question. She then wanted to know what the problem was. He did not answer and began getting hostile. So you say it is OK for the cop to tell the lady to put out her cigarette in HER OWN CAR? That's not overstepping?
That's my point exactly. If he had been anything else, say a public school teacher, and took out his/her frustrations on a student, wouldn't Neil (or anyone else) be pissed off about what little Johnny did to deserve that treatment? No different for a cop. He should have conducted himself a lot better. For instance, when she refused to put out her cigarette he should have then moved on from it. He made mention later that he was going to give her a "warning" until she acted out. Well, warning for WHAT? She asked what she had done, and he never would explain it. Perhaps if he would have simply told her what she did, this would have been avoided.
I'm not condoning her actions, either. She was irate. But, again, probably 90% of us would have acted close to that in that situation. Not knowing why we were pulled over. Having a cop with a prickly attitude handling the situation. Not good.
People, you are confusing policemen as different people. They are actually out of the general population who have an interest in the job. They take a Civil Service test and are investigated for prior record, they are tested by professional staff. If approved, they go to the police academy. When they graduate, they are assigned to a division and hit the streets.
At no point in the process, did they have to be exceptional. They are people like you and me. Admittedly, some see themselves as being different when they get the responsibility and a service piece. Of course some wash out at all stops for various and sundry reasons, but never because they didn't become exceptional. They are normal with family and go to church and their kids activities. Frequently tho they are assigned to duty when most normal employed people are off work. They normally have assignment at night and weekends and holidays. A few of the more senior officers can request, and receive, those normal days off.
2 things, I think the cigarette request was legit because of the 2nd hand smoke aspect of it.
I bet she would have rather kept her fvcking mouth shut now don't you? I for one would rather be alive and pissed than indignant and dead.
With that said, she didn't do herself any favors by her attitude but the cop was out of line as well. Her behavior was exactly what I say you never do with a cop.
So, what's next? Cops show up to your door and tell you to stop doing something else that is legal on your own property? I don't smoke, and can't stand second-hand, but if someone is in their home or car, they should have the right to do it. It wasn't like she was blowing the smoke in his face. Come on, that's weak.
Do you think she would have rather put it out and be alive than be dead? Where did her being indignant get her? You aren't going to win on the street. You can win in court. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend. In court is where you can foster change. Some loud mouth ***** in her car is only going to get some comeuppance. I watched the whole video and I was rooting for the cop to smack her in her smart assed mouth with his baton. Her behavior escalated that situation. The cop was plainly in the wrong but had she not behaved in the manner she did, not only would she be alive, she would have only gotten a warning.
What in gods name did I say that could even begin to think my position was on race or gender for that matter? You could completely reverse both in that scenario and I would feel the exact same way.Only if the woman is white.
I like to see people who think they are "safe" to run their mouths find out what happens when the other guy stops playing by the rules of civility as well. I find it damn hilarious.
So, I go back to my original question which neither you or MLK up there have yet to answer. What did her being indignant get her? Dead. In hindsight, I'm sure her and her family would have rather she put that ciggy out and said yes sir and no sir.
First point ... have you seen the video of the punk running his mouth about the moon landing being a hoax? He's yelling at Buzz Aldren and telling him it was a hoax and he's a liar and Buzz popped him in the mouth. Loved it.
Second ... I'm not making light of this, but it reminds me of a line in Harlem Nights "Sure, that's what we'll put on your tombstone 'he's dead but wasn't no punk' "
I go back to the screenings for cops. Surely they get a similar reaction at least 50% of the time they make a stop, so what causes them to snap? I find some of this paradoxical because you constantly hear from cops at how any traffic stop could be their last and everything like that ... and I'm not saying they should approach it fearfully, but if you truly think that every situation is dangerous and any routine traffic stop could be your last, why would you deliberately escalate a situation? Would it not make sense to de-escalate it and try to calm the person down?
But, I've never been a cop ... there's got to be a point where you get tired of the ****. And you never know what else might be going on in somebody's life. Maybe he just found out his wife had breast cancer, or a baby just died from SIDS or anything else. We all have stuff to deal with, including cops.
Here is a transcript:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-transcript_55b03a88e4b0a9b94853b1f1
Apparently the cruiser came flying up on her, so she moved over ... and then gets pulled over for not signalling when she did that.
He gets her info, goes to the cruiser, comes back. Then deliberately escalates the situation for no reason. "I'm only giving you a warning for failure to signal, please sign here". There wasn't any reason for him to say anything other than that.
Instead he asks her why she seems upset and everything escalates from there. And then at the end, he lies about the encounter to his supervisor, or whoever.
It almost seems she was targeted for some reason. Come up behind her and ticket her when she moves over out of your way?
The whole thing is super weird.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-transcript_55b03a88e4b0a9b94853b1f1
Apparently the cruiser came flying up on her, so she moved over ... and then gets pulled over for not signalling when she did that.
He gets her info, goes to the cruiser, comes back. Then deliberately escalates the situation for no reason. "I'm only giving you a warning for failure to signal, please sign here". There wasn't any reason for him to say anything other than that.
Instead he asks her why she seems upset and everything escalates from there. And then at the end, he lies about the encounter to his supervisor, or whoever.
It almost seems she was targeted for some reason. Come up behind her and ticket her when she moves over out of your way?
The whole thing is super weird.
I came here to see what was being said about this situation because the entire thing confuses me. The cop was a little too aggressive as they can often be but I can't see where he did anything wrong. He had a legit reason for pulling her over and went through the procedure as many officers would. It escalates for reasons that could have easily been avoided.
It's extremely unfortunate that this young lady is now dead but as for the stop itself she could have easily driven off with nothing more than a warning had she chosen to do so.
We can continue to debate these issues until the end of time but it won't bring back those that lost their lives when it could have been avoided by simply keeping quiet and doing what they are told...and yes I realize this situation is a little different since she did not die during the the time she was pulled over.
Finally watched the video. Bad attitude + disobeying an officer = arrested and go to jail. All she had to do was do what he told her, fool. She fought the law and the law won, again. I don't know why anyone thinks this (I know my rights, etc.) approach will work.
I guess you missed the part about disobeying the officer's commands that I put in my formula and yes, it did show her unfortunately any lessons learned are irrelevant now since she's dead.