DISCUSSION: Christian Carroll & Cody Merrill

JAY45

Heisman
Jul 19, 2002
16,779
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Not to detail the Board 😊

Although it’s not my intention, this will surely ruffle some feathers.

Listening to the National guys seemed to crystallize something. Here goes.

Hypothesis:
•Penn State recruits on an elite, worldwide level.
•Okla State has recruited at an elite level the past 6-7 years under Tyler Caldwell.
•The major differences are:
-PSU has been able to recruit elite talent at every weight
-OSU has taken elite guys regardless of weight and based on rank which has caused logjams. In other words, PSU has had the pick of the litter, and has been able to disperse talent.
-OSU has had to scratch and claw to get guys, leverage key relationships, leverage non-near term success (I remember being concerned about Daton, which seems ridiculous in hindsight…at the time, there were some moments of doubt as he was taking visits).
-Athletes have chosen Penn State based on what they have been doing right now vs. what they have done or what they will do.
-OSU has had to take more risks on talented guys that PSU has not had to worry about (certain people were never going to get a look from PSU).

There might be other factors I’m missing; and some of my hypothesis might need refinement.

That said, this Christian Carroll & Cody Merrill situation seems indicative of what I’m proposing. Two elite talents basically at the same weight. Thia will seem to require a serious feat to keep both in the lineup at the same time.

The easy answer is, both these guys are Heavyweights. Which seems like a concern.

OSU had to flip Carroll (fight, scratch, claw) and then added Merrill (leveraging DC and favorable geography).

Quick pause to say, I’m thrilled both of these guys are Cowboys and hope to see them both have phenomenal careers…all at Okla State.

The question is; how is it going to work out?

Is 3 years of 197 Carroll & 285 Merrill possible? Probable?

Here’s a question, who would win 197 if Merrill could get down? Pyles is saying Merrill is already college ready.

Probably enough rambling from me. Anxious to hear thoughts/discussion.
 
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Chasingthirty-five

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Is 3 years of 197 Carroll & 285 Merrill possible? Probable?
It’s my understanding that Carroll had really built his frame into what it was at 230ish. He isn’t a fat dude. I say that because since Merrill seemed to be headed to HWT I’ve heard the same thing with CC in regards to he is building his body into 197. Seems like he has the talent and mindset to be successful where he wants to be. At his height 197 should be doable for a career but obviously that’s easy for me to say as I’m sitting here eating biscuits and gravy for breakfast.
 

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
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CC has long planned to get down to 97 because of his aspirations outside of college. He wants to win the Olympics, and he wants to do that at 97kg. He also wants to coach after he centers his shoes and no successful coach has come from the heavyweight class.
 

Air_Thurman

Heisman
Jan 16, 2003
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CC has long planned to get down to 97 because of his aspirations outside of college. He wants to win the Olympics, and he wants to do that at 97kg. He also wants to coach after he centers his shoes and no successful coach has come from the heavyweight class.
Started googling because I thought there is no way that is true. Pretty crazy that it seems to be the case.
 

newguy123

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Seems pretty simple. CC has been cutting and will be 97, Merrill will add muscle/bulk to his frame. Merrill looked ripped af before he went hwt this last year. Should be good!
 
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AtownPoke

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Seems pretty simple. CC has been cutting and will be 97, Merrill will add muscle/bulk to his frame. Merrill looked ripped af before he went hwt this last year. Should be good!
I think the worry with CC would be that it takes a toll on him. Cutting himself down that much and holding it for 4 years (while potentially losing some explosiveness and strength as result of truly rebuilding his body type) is tough

I think if he does it slow enough it can work (and he has it seems) but that’s a long and tough road.
 
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chasepollard

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I think the worry is with CC would be the toll it takes on him to cut himself down for 4 more years while potentially losing some explosiveness and strength as result of truly rebuilding his body type.

I think if he does it slow enough it can work (and he has it seems) but that’s a long and tough road.
Man, I really don't think so. The mind is a powerful tool and he is using it.

I know meth is out of the question, but he can be even quicker and very powerful on this cut. It is a lifestyle and one most Americans (citizens) won't utilize. At 5'9, 230 pounds is too heavy. His joints are going to thank him and I think his overall health will be better.
 

AtownPoke

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Man, I really don't think so. The mind is a powerful tool and he is using it.

I know meth is out of the question, but he can be even quicker and very powerful on this cut. It is a lifestyle and one most Americans (citizens) won't utilize. At 5'9, 230 pounds is too heavy. His joints are going to thank him and I think his overall health will be better.
Agree. Kid was covered in stretch marks. He outgrew the body God had intended lol
 
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Harleycowboy

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Man, I really don't think so. The mind is a powerful tool and he is using it.

I know meth is out of the question, but he can be even quicker and very powerful on this cut. It is a lifestyle and one most Americans (citizens) won't utilize. At 5'9, 230 pounds is too heavy. His joints are going to thank him and I think his overall health will be better.
I agree, how many offensive or defensive lineman do you see lose 50 to 75 pounds after their career in football is done. Much healthier and Carroll likely has put lots of effort into gaining weight. I think when he wrestled in junior worlds he wrestled several tall HWTs that he had no chance against. He realized getting smaller was a better answer for him. I really hope this works for him in college and in international freestyle wrestling.
 

Howie_Fartz

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Merrill has never looked ripped. Might happen in his time on campus. But ya boy has always had some christmas hams and yams on him.
I agree with this. Ripped is not how I would have described him.

That being said I have my concerns about either of these guys at heavyweight due to their height. I either read or someone told me or saw it in an interview that Carroll flat out said heavyweight wasnt working out. He LOST to Doucet in the ranking match if that tells you anything. Granted I'm sure Konnor just waited and countered, but still. Some guys get an extra 20 plus pounds on them and they just can't move like they need too.

I was excited with the initial idea of CC heavy and CM at 197. Merrill dominated at Fargo and just wasnt even challenged. Then CC realized heavy wasnt for him. Lets hope when Merrill arrives he's comfortable there. Coaches will know if he is the heavyweight we need going forward and it wont take long.

With any luck, one of them will hit a growth spurt 🤣
 

chasepollard

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I agree with this. Ripped is not how I would have described him.

That being said I have my concerns about either of these guys at heavyweight due to their height. I either read or someone told me or saw it in an interview that Carroll flat out said heavyweight wasnt working out. He LOST to Doucet in the ranking match if that tells you anything. Granted I'm sure Konnor just waited and countered, but still. Some guys get an extra 20 plus pounds on them and they just can't move like they need too.

I was excited with the initial idea of CC heavy and CM at 197. Merrill dominated at Fargo and just wasnt even challenged. Then CC realized heavy wasnt for him. Lets hope when Merrill arrives he's comfortable there. Coaches will know if he is the heavyweight we need going forward and it wont take long.

With any luck, one of them will hit a growth spurt 🤣
How tall is his Pa?

Either way, I am not too concerned with the height. He can still be really, really good!
 
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Howie_Fartz

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Feldman is 5'11 and looks short as hell out there and obviously struggles with bigger taller elite wrestlers.
 

newguy123

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I agree with this. Ripped is not how I would have described him.

That being said I have my concerns about either of these guys at heavyweight due to their height. I either read or someone told me or saw it in an interview that Carroll flat out said heavyweight wasnt working out. He LOST to Doucet in the ranking match if that tells you anything. Granted I'm sure Konnor just waited and countered, but still. Some guys get an extra 20 plus pounds on them and they just can't move like they need too.

I was excited with the initial idea of CC heavy and CM at 197. Merrill dominated at Fargo and just wasnt even challenged. Then CC realized heavy wasnt for him. Lets hope when Merrill arrives he's comfortable there. Coaches will know if he is the heavyweight we need going forward and it wont take long.

With any luck, one of them will hit a growth spurt 🤣
Go look at Merrill’s IG from July 2022. Looks ripped to me! Assuming that’s him lol
 

chasepollard

Heisman
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Remember listening to a past conversation from Triple H(now boss) in wwe about Kurt Angle. Told the boss(Vince) he was too small to do a ppv match with. After one time in the ring he said never mind, forget everything I said. Angle was an animal.
You mean acting like an animal on TV
 

DEWrestlingFan

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Anyone see Flo's Class of 2024 rankings? They bumped Merrill down, and DIllan Johnson jumped over him one spot. Anyone have a clue on the reasoning behind this? Did Merrill lose head to head to Johnson? Just curious.
 

vhsalum

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Anyone see Flo's Class of 2024 rankings? They bumped Merrill down, and DIllan Johnson jumped over him one spot. Anyone have a clue on the reasoning behind this? Did Merrill lose head to head to Johnson? Just curious.

Merrill hasn't even given up a takedown since 2022. So the drop in ranking makes no sense. It's not even like Johnson competes more than Merrill. Bad drop.
 

OSUMatFan

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Christian was prepared to wrestle at 92 KG at the U-23. A minor mistake that will get corrected. He is not struggling with weight. He could lose 10 pounds of muscle and still be the strongest guy at the weight. He is incredibly focused and will get done whatever it takes to win. I bet if he wanted to he could get to 184 as he can afford to lose more muscle, but he will do great at 197.
 
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glorycowboy

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If I remember correct, Cody already beat Cole Mirasola once before. Will be good indicator of how the Mirasolas been training with PSU

He also beat Sahakian
 
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Harleycowboy

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Anyone see Flo's Class of 2024 rankings? They bumped Merrill down, and DIllan Johnson jumped over him one spot. Anyone have a clue on the reasoning behind this? Did Merrill lose head to head to Johnson? Just curious.
I don't know how to explain Merrill winning in the State finals against a highly rated opponent and dropping from 8th to 12th and Johnson going from 16th to 11th in the 2024 recruiting class. Merrill beat the 8th rated high school HWT in the country Sahakian 3 to 1 in the finals. I don't know what Johnson did this year but there is not another top 20 HWT in Illinois.
 

Chasingthirty-five

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I don't know how to explain Merrill winning in the State finals against a highly rated opponent and dropping from 8th to 12th and Johnson going from 16th to 11th in the 2024 recruiting class. Merrill beat the 8th rated high school HWT in the country Sahakian 3 to 1 in the finals. I don't know what Johnson did this year but there is not another top 20 HWT in Illinois.
You can’t explain it. That’s the thing. I mean I’ll give some grace bc they didn’t expect him to be a HWT I guess but that grace period was months ago.
 

osu2082

Heisman
Jan 29, 2006
32,629
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You can’t explain it. That’s the thing. I mean I’ll give some grace bc they didn’t expect him to be a HWT I guess but that grace period was months ago.

Maybe there are some concerns of where he projects at the next level?
 

AtownPoke

Heisman
Sep 23, 2006
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Maybe there are some concerns of where he projects at the next level?
I’d trust Willie over Flo. I get the stature issues but Willie is still calling for big things
 
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Chasingthirty-five

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Maybe there are some concerns of where he projects at the next level?
That was my first thought but that isn’t a projection ranking. Or isn’t meant to be. It’s a current ranking I thought so doesn’t make sense if that is what they’re doing
 

Howie_Fartz

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Quick thought I had so I looked and I don't know if anyone else has realized it but if our schedule this year is a mirror image of last years then 3 of Carroll's first 4 dual meet matches will all be top 10 guys (Flo's rankings). Lehigh (Beard), OU (Buchanan), Wyoming (Novak).

This doesn't include who he may see at CKLV if we go (probably see around 7 of the top 15). I've been vocal about hoping they go and I think they should. One of the reasons I think they should is it will give both Coach Taylor and Coach Gilman a solid D1 tournament coaching feel. Might be nice to have that at least once before B12s.
 

NCPsuFan

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Don't fact check me sucka!

Most everything I say is BS, don't ruin me by proving me wrong!
Not that they were great but Bruce B had a good program at small Edinboro after taking them from D2 to D1. Won them there first individual national champion and got them as high as 6 in the country. I’d say that’s successful, albeit not what many of us call success.
 
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