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cole854

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Can you imagine Florida or Orlando in particular with no WDW?

Anyway, my biggest issue with this is not taking away the special treatment for Disney, it's the fact that it was obviously done as political retribution for Disney opposing this law. That sets a horrible precedent and is very bad politics in the long run.

For the first part, that obviously will never happen in our lifetime. You aren't moving decades of development, investment, etc, because you don't like the rules DeSantis has set. Elections have consequences.

Political retribution? Oh....so what about what WDW is doing in regards to their stance on the law? Or perhaps, what WDW did to change the entire culture of their product that alienated the "majority" of their paying customers?

It works both ways.
 

LowerLevelSeatA

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That’s racist. Mods can we please ban or suspend? Hopefully this type of behavior is not tolerated. All people’s feelings matter and should be respected.
 

Dore95

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For the first part, that obviously will never happen in our lifetime. You aren't moving decades of development, investment, etc, because you don't like the rules DeSantis has set. Elections have consequences.

Political retribution? Oh....so what about what WDW is doing in regards to their stance on the law? Or perhaps, what WDW did to change the entire culture of their product that alienated the "majority" of their paying customers?

It works both ways.
When did so called "conservatives" become so anti-business? I certainly believe in a corporation's right to oppose a law. That happens all the time, typically to oppose laws/regulation sponsored by democrats.
 
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cole854

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When did so called "conservatives" become so anti-business? I certainly believe in a corporation's right to oppose a law. That happens all the time, typically to oppose laws/regulation sponsored by democrats.

Anti-business? Did you miss the growth under Trump, and the business growth in virtually every Repub led community in the country?
 

ukalumni00

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Good luck to Disney finding thousands of acres in a weather friendly area that has the infrastructure to support a new theme park and a government willing to hand them the keys to do whatever they want plus sell them the land for pennies on the dollar. They are not going anywhere anytime soon. Would take them many years to leave FL.
 

ukcatz12

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Hardly, this is the liberal Pro Gay spin. Do you realize how big Florida is and how financially sound it is thanks to conservative leaders in our state. Disney World is a drop in our revenue bucket. Florida has billions in reserves. Billions. Florida made money during the pandemic. Florida has close to 22 million residents and if little Mickey left tomorrow most of these citizens would celebrate. The Disney Corporation does nothing for people who live here. They are much more trouble than they are worth.

For 50 years the very liberal Orlando Sentinel has raised questions about the propriety of a company having its own government. Disney's vast media empire profited from the special district carve out. They were allowed to raise million in taxes. Democrats have always been against the concept of conceding government authority to any private corporation. Now all of a sudden liberals in the media are all up in arms because Disney will be like every other business in this state and all special privileges that creates millions in wealth for them is over. So now the media cries, How dare Republicans take away special privileges granted to Disney World, How dare they turned the existing world order on its head. How dare they treat Disney like every other corporation in our state.

What hypocrisy. Now Democrats find themselves defending the right of a multinational mega-corporation to govern itself over a vast area with significant human, economic and environmental impacts. A policy position that they have historically hated and opposed with vigor. But since it involves one of the liberals biggest supporters and funding machine they are opposed. You can't make this stuff up.

So Disney got a little too big for it's britches and cut it's own throat. Their stock is going down and the mothers and fathers of the youth of Florida are the better for it.
They why is what people are concerned about. This is pretty clearly retaliation against Disney for their statements about HB 1557.

And making money during the pandemic is not the flex you think it is. Any state that's not falling apart would have made money because the feds were handing it out like candy. Liberal NJ had a $10 billion surplus during Covid. California had a $45 billion surplus. Florida had a $3 billion deficit for this year before they got $6 billion in extra federal stimulus funds.

The infrastructure currently paid for and managed by RCID will now need to be paid for by the residents of Orange and Osceola counties. Including the $1-2 Billion in debt the RCID currently has. RCID was a net positive for those counties and the state of Florida. The infrastructure was paid for, maintained at a higher level, and built to a higher standard than the normal Florida building codes.
 

ukcatz12

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Good luck to Disney finding thousands of acres in a weather friendly area that has the infrastructure to support a new theme park and a government willing to hand them the keys to do whatever they want plus sell them the land for pennies on the dollar. They are not going anywhere anytime soon. Would take them many years to leave FL.
Disney isn't leaving Florida. But they do certainly have things they can do to push back against this. I would assume this is going directly to the courts because it seems obviously retaliatory for Disney speaking out against HB 1557. They could cancel or downsize their Lake Nona project where they were bringing staff over from California. Maybe most importantly for DeSantis, they could bankroll his opponent.

It is probably unwise for DeSantis to bite the hand that feeds Florida. They won't leave, but they can certainly end up being a huge thorn in the state's side if they want to.
 

Bill Derington

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Disney isn't leaving Florida. But they do certainly have things they can do to push back against this. I would assume this is going directly to the courts because it seems obviously retaliatory for Disney speaking out against HB 1557. They could cancel or downsize their Lake Nona project where they were bringing staff over from California. Maybe most importantly for DeSantis, they could bankroll his opponent.

It is probably unwise for DeSantis to bite the hand that feeds Florida. They won't leave, but they can certainly end up being a huge thorn in the state's side if they want to.
DeSantis is doing Disney a favor, you think Disney wants to defend the opposition of this Bill? Hell no, the majority of families don't want this behavior in elementary school, and they are the bread and butter of Disney.

By doing this DeSantis has given Disney an out, and he looks good as well, its a win win for the 2 parties involved.
 

Bill Derington

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Glad to see you admit that since I’ve seen posted repeatedly on this message board that Trump was responsible for the low gas prices in 2020
I've never seen it posted that he was responsible for the low prices strictly for 2020. The price of oil was approx $60 a barrel right before the pandemic, it had been in that neighborhood for several years. It has not been back since, and the policies of this admin currently won't get it back there either.
I suspect you'll see them shift course to get lower gas prices closer to the election this year.
 

ukcatz12

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I think this sums up the intent behind this bill pretty well. Every effort was made to clarify what exactly this bill does and it was rejected again and again.






 

Bill Derington

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I think this sums up the intent behind this bill pretty well. Every effort was made to clarify what exactly this bill does and it was rejected again and again.







The bill is straightforward, and those amendments were attempts to muddy it.

Kindergarten through 3rd grade will not be taught any sexual identity or gender studies. No Hetero, homo, cis, bi, or any other. It isn’t a schools job or necessity to do that. This isn’t complicated.
 

ukcatz12

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Political retribution? Oh....so what about what WDW is doing in regards to their stance on the law? Or perhaps, what WDW did to change the entire culture of their product that alienated the "majority" of their paying customers?

It works both ways.
It absolutely does not go both ways. Government actions and actions by a private corporation are not close to the same thing. For better or worse corporate donations to politicians has been ruled free speech. Retaliation by the government against a corporation for cutting off donations or for speaking out against a specific law is a clear cut free speech violation.

Disney's customers do not have any rights protecting them from Disney "alienating" them. Disney is absolutely protected against retribution from the government due to their corporate speech.
 

Bill Derington

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It absolutely does not go both ways. Government actions and actions by a private corporation are not close to the same thing. For better or worse corporate donations to politicians has been ruled free speech. Retaliation by the government against a corporation for cutting off donations or for speaking out against a specific law is a clear cut free speech violation.

Disney's customers do not have any rights protecting them from Disney "alienating" them. Disney is absolutely protected against retribution from the government due to their corporate speech.
So treating Disney as every other corporation in the State is retribution? The bill being sent to DeSantis isn't punishing Disney at all, it's simply removing their special status, that no one else has.
 

ukcatz12

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So treating Disney as every other corporation in the State is retribution? The bill being sent to DeSantis isn't punishing Disney at all, it's simply removing their special status, that no one else has.
The why is what makes it retribution. This doesn't happen if Disney doesn't speak out against HB 1557. If DeSantis did this two years ago no one would give a crap. But it's clearly being done because he's upset Disney spoke out against him.

With this the why matters more than the what.
 

JumperJack

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This is so ridiculous. You do not speak for all Floridians, or even most. I don't have any particular affinity for Disney, but they are an important economic engine in the state of Florida and, contrary to what you say, most Floridians don't want them gone. Can you imagine Florida or Orlando in particular with no WDW?

Anyway, my biggest issue with this is not taking away the special treatment for Disney, it's the fact that it was obviously done as political retribution for Disney opposing this law. That sets a horrible precedent and is very bad politics in the long run.
Good luck to Disney finding thousands of acres in a weather friendly area that has the infrastructure to support a new theme park and a government willing to hand them the keys to do whatever they want plus sell them the land for pennies on the dollar. They are not going anywhere anytime soon. Would take them many years to leave FL.
Exactly. They aren’t going anywhere warm because those prospective areas are almost all Red. Furthermore, the liberal heart of Florida is Orange County. Who will make up the shortfall? Liberals in Orange and Osceola counties.

DeSantis is kicking their teeth in. And exposing their hypocrisy regarding corporations (not Nike, we already know about that hypocrisy).
 
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Beatle Bum

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This is so ridiculous. You do not speak for all Floridians, or even most. I don't have any particular affinity for Disney, but they are an important economic engine in the state of Florida and, contrary to what you say, most Floridians don't want them gone. Can you imagine Florida or Orlando in particular with no WDW?

Anyway, my biggest issue with this is not taking away the special treatment for Disney, it's the fact that it was obviously done as political retribution for Disney opposing this law. That sets a horrible precedent and is very bad politics in the long run.
Whoa!! Hold that horse. DISNEY interjected itself into the political process with virtue signaling venom. The fact that it is getting looked at is it’s own doing. Making Disney the victim in this is laughable. Like out loud laughable.
 

ukcatz12

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Whoa!! Hold that horse. DISNEY interjected itself into the political process with virtue signaling venom. The fact that it is getting looked at is it’s own doing. Making Disney the victim in this is laughable. Like out loud laughable.
That's the great part about free speech. You can inject yourself into the political process without fear of a government response. That is very clearly not happening here.
 

Dore95

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I agree that Disney is not a victim. The victim are the people who head up chambers of commerce and business development boards in this state who are having to answer questions from the business community about why the state government is picking fights with major corporations (Disney, Carnival, etc.) in the name of "personal freedom".

There is a real battle brewing nationwide. As you can see from this thread (and the political thread), the most vocal elements of the Republican party have little interest in business issues. In fact, they see most business leaders as "elites", out of touch with the common man. In some ways, today's Republican party has more in common with the populist, agrarian-based Democratic party at the turn of the 20th century, than with the party of Reagan.
 

Bill Derington

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The why is what makes it retribution. This doesn't happen if Disney doesn't speak out against HB 1557. If DeSantis did this two years ago no one would give a crap. But it's clearly being done because he's upset Disney spoke out against him.

With this the why matters more than the what.
It's not retribution to treat them as every other corporation. Retribution would be to treat them worse than every other corporation. As I stated earlier though, this gives Disney an out to not get involved in the "Don't say Gay" bill.
 

Beatle Bum

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No! We have been told multiple times here that CRT is a theoretical legal discussion only taking place in law schools! People have shamed others for suggesting otherwise. These admissions, and others, must be fake news.

[we were also told there is no such thing as CRT]
 
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Beatle Bum

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I agree that Disney is not a victim. The victim are the people who head up chambers of commerce and business development boards in this state who are having to answer questions from the business community about why the state government is picking fights with major corporations (Disney, Carnival, etc.) in the name of "personal freedom".

There is a real battle brewing nationwide. As you can see from this thread (and the political thread), the most vocal elements of the Republican party have little interest in business issues. In fact, they see most business leaders as "elites", out of touch with the common man. In some ways, today's Republican party has more in common with the populist, agrarian-based Democratic party at the turn of the 20th century, than with the party of Reagan.
I suspect that Disney competitors are very interested to see Disney lose the government benefit that gives it a great marketplace advantage. Why is leveling the playing field bad for business?
 

phunterd

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I agree that Disney is not a victim. The victim are the people who head up chambers of commerce and business development boards in this state who are having to answer questions from the business community about why the state government is picking fights with major corporations (Disney, Carnival, etc.) in the name of "personal freedom".

There is a real battle brewing nationwide. As you can see from this thread (and the political thread), the most vocal elements of the Republican party have little interest in business issues. In fact, they see most business leaders as "elites", out of touch with the common man. In some ways, today's Republican party has more in common with the populist, agrarian-based Democratic party at the turn of the 20th century, than with the party of Reagan.

If it means choosing personal freedom over the interests of work corporations then so be it. And honestly I can’t imagine a conservative that would choose otherwise. Particularly considering it is nearly every issue dear to conservatives that corporations speak out against.

Sorry, but conservative and traditional American values come first with me over what some Silicon Valley marketing firm is telling corporations to stand for.
 

cole854

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I agree that Disney is not a victim. The victim are the people who head up chambers of commerce and business development boards in this state who are having to answer questions from the business community about why the state government is picking fights with major corporations (Disney, Carnival, etc.) in the name of "personal freedom".

There is a real battle brewing nationwide. As you can see from this thread (and the political thread), the most vocal elements of the Republican party have little interest in business issues. In fact, they see most business leaders as "elites", out of touch with the common man. In some ways, today's Republican party has more in common with the populist, agrarian-based Democratic party at the turn of the 20th century, than with the party of Reagan.

Are you not paying attention to the current state of this country? The post I just quoted would state you are not.
 
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So treating Disney as every other corporation in the State is retribution? The bill being sent to DeSantis isn't punishing Disney at all, it's simply removing their special status, that no one else has.

There are 1,844 Special Districts set up in Florida. Disney is just of them.

This is just a pissing contest between DeSantis and Disney. They will just negotiate, reapply and reinstate It.
 
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Bill Derington

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There are 1,844 Special Districts set up in Florida. Disney is just of them.

This is just a pissing contest between DeSantis and Disney. They will just negotiate, reapply and reinstate It.
I would dare say none of them cater to one individual Corporation that runs a County size area. The rest of your post is likely correct which is why I stated Desantis is doing Disney a favor, likely at their request so they have an out with the " dont say gay" crazies up in arms about the Bill.
 

WildcatofNati

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Just so that folks understand this, there is literally no way to "Groom" a room full of kids. Grooming is a process that is one-to-one and takes place in secret over an extended period of time. It is not some kind of hypnotist act you would find on the Vegas strip. Anyone who is telling you this, is "grooming" you to be outraged, fearful and to vote a specific way. If 'grooming' is an issue that is so widespread that it requires legislative action, then why is there literally no data to provide evidence of a problem? Shouldn't we see rooms full of gay and transgender 5th graders parading through the schools in Florida by now?

I would also ask the question for those who are heterosexual. How much conversion would it take for you to suddenly turn gay? Is there some kind of chart that shows me the breaking point? Is there a person out there that has said that after they watched every season of Project Runway they suddenly decided to be gay? Ask yourself what it would take, and then apply that same standard to everyone else. If you think there is a point where you would turn gay, then you are probably gay. Or at least bi-curious.

The whole concept of simply mentioning something about homosexuality/transgender means that someone will suddenly run to embrace the lifestyle is just ignorant. No one has ever become gay because a teacher told them to. Just like you can't pray the gay away, you also can't glamorize the lifestyle enough to suddenly make people adopt it.
That's a fair point about the grooming, and I submit that these woke teachers are not at all grooming these kids to be gay, trans, or victims, for the very reasons you brought forth. No, what they are doing is that they are grooming them to be woke, and, yes, you can absolutely try to do that to the whole room at once. I have mixed feelings about whether laws are needed to prohibit indoctrinating children, but, even if not, the whole process still sucks.
 
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I would dare say none of them cater to one individual Corporation that runs a County size area. The rest of your post is likely correct which is why I stated Desantis is doing Disney a favor, likely at their request so they have an out with the " dont say gay" crazies up in arms about the Bill.

If I remember right, I think the developers of The Villages set one up for their commercial area. Been a good while since I looked at the list. Most are set up for airports and other govt functions etc. I think the list is on the Fl economic development web site.

Reedy Creek Development (Disney) probably is the largest.
 
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